What is normal communication between dates in early stages of dating?

[BaileyB]

I know one of my partner’s male coworkers, so when he made the comment about being jealous, I said “Of (your male coworker)? Why would I be jealous of him?” We both laughed... but, he really thought I would be jealous of his coworker because his wife was. I was just curious to know more about her - it sounded like they had a very collegial relationship and I wanted to know the person that was his closest coworker. 

[Alpacalia]

9 minutes ago, DatingMom said:

And he totally brought up the jealousy thing yesterday too. I was having a bit of a hard time following what he was trying to tell me about keeping options open. At some point he said: "I would want to maybe go for a coffee with a female coworker. " I was confused and asked "that you want to f***?" He was like "no. just coffee". I was like: "I don't think I understand" and he said "wouldn't you be jealous of that if we were in a relationship?". I have so many male friends. I was completely baffled! 

Seems like you're bargaining at this point in order to continue spending more time with him, most likely having sex and falling deeper in affection with him.

What do you think will happen when you grow more frustrated with him if he's already said that "he just doesn't have the mental capacity to fully commit to you."

After two months, you already had a list of things you didn't like, and when you brought it up with him, he pushed back.

I hope it all works out for the best but also hope your self-esteem doesn't take a big hit in the process.

[DatingMom]

16 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

Seems like you're bargaining at this point in order to continue spending more time with him, most likely having sex and falling deeper in affection with him.

What do you think will happen when you grow more frustrated with him if he's already said that "he just doesn't have the mental capacity to fully commit to you."

After two months, you already had a list of things you didn't like, and when you brought it up with him, he pushed back.

I hope it all works out for the best but also hope your self-esteem doesn't take a big hit in the process.

I see your point. I'll admit that I like this guy a lot. To be fair, I gave him a list and he agreed on every point, except being officially in a relationship. But he agreed to:

- exclusivity 
- making more of an effort
- being more responsive text-wise
- seeing each other more frequently

But it is a risk the "falling deeper in affection". I would most definitely not drag this out any longer than another two months. Mid-July on the dot I will bring this up again, and if he still can't commit, I will walk away for my own benefit even if it hurts. I've learned the hard way that it's better to hurt a little sooner than a lot a year down the road. 

[DatingMom]

Sorry for the continuous updates! And thanks for reading.

He came over yesterday, and at the end of the evening he said he had thought about our conversation two days ago, and he felt at the time, since he hadn't had time to really think about it, his answer might not have been the right answer.

So yesterday he said that he really wanted a long term relationship with me, but that he felt too broken at the moment to enter any kind of relationship. He doesn't want to commit to someone when he knows he still has such a long way to go to heal himself. He said: "I want to be whole and fully available when that happens because I want to put all the energy I have into making you happy. But right now, I barely have enough energy for my various therapy sessions, and my healing process. I need to be selfish on this journey so that I can heal properly and be ready for the kind of relationship that I want. I feel it would be selfish and unfair to you to keep you around and not give you enough, and make you unhappy." We talked a long time about how this statement made each of us feel. 

Then he said that he's not possessive, and if I were ok continuing to see each other whenever possible, he would be happy if I dated other men, considered other options. He said that he cares so much about me that it would make him happy to see me happy, even if somewhere that would also make him sad. Finally, at 5 am, we came to the conclusion that we would continue seeing each other, and that I would continue dating but wouldn't tell him about it. When we are together, we would just focus on each other. Like a relationship inside a bubble. We wouldn't talk about any of this anymore, but would revisit it end of July.

In the meantime, he would also like me to participate to one of his psychedelic sessions so that we can get to know each other better.

All this is a bit overwhelming and definitely unknown territory for me. In our discussions, we both agreed that we never had such a deep connection so quickly and easily with someone. There is really something there that is hard to explain. I don't think I ever connected with someone like that before. I'm not just talking about feelings like "love", but something else. A deeper connection and understanding. Am I a fool to stay in this? He also offered - although he did say that was not his first choice - to stop seeing each other and that he will come back when he feels more whole. He said "I would come back, I can guarantee that. But I realize that you might have moved on."

Any thoughts on this crazy situation?

[Wiseman2]

10 minutes ago, DatingMom said:

He said: "I want to be whole and fully available when that happens because I want to put all the energy I have into making you happy. But right now, I barely have enough energy for my various therapy sessions, and my healing process.

he would also like me to participate to one of his psychedelic sessions so that we can get to know each other better.

Agree. Very hurtful and insulting to be the good-for-now girl. Also that he sees you more as a bandaid and when he's "ready" he'll find someone.

Unless you are into drugs, do not join him on his psychedelic trips. Perhaps he is looking for someone into ayahuasca. He is probably already looking into that.

It seems like it's getting clearer and clearer why his wife dumped him. 

While this FWB agreement seems good on the surface, are you sure you want that? No pun intended but is he tripping with this bizarre suggestion?

Edited May 15, 2021 by Wiseman2

[DatingMom]

It is for sure hurtful at a certain level. And I was honest that this is who I felt about it. On the other hand, I do understand what he is saying to me. I don't think that he wants a FWB situation. And I don't get the sense that if things were different, this is what he would want. I don't know if that makes sense?

As for the psychedelic thingy: he's not pressuring me. He would just like to share that experience with me.

As per his ex wife: he left her actually, and not the other way around. 

[Sun Seeker]

23 minutes ago, DatingMom said:

Any thoughts on this crazy situation?

So now it's the old classic 'It's not you, it's me' line he is giving you..

A relationship is not supposed to be this hard work, especially this early on. All these deep convos about not being available yet, not having the energy, not ready for a relationship, telling you to date others... should not be happening.

Sounds like you are settling big time, and for what? Because you have a 'deep connection and understanding'? Seriously? That's all you need to be happy in a relationship?

You asked if you are a fool for staying in this.. and sorry but yes you are. You are completely wasting your time with him.

There are plenty of men out there who you will have your 'deep connection and understanding' with as well, but will actually want to be with you, will be available, will have the energy, will be ready for a relationship, and will not want to lose you by letting you date anyone else.

[hippychick3]

I would get out now before you become more attached. He sounds like a nice person but is absolutely not emotionally available. You’re almost guaranteed to get your heart broken if you stay. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, DatingMom said:

He said: "I want to be whole and fully available when that happens because I want to put all the energy I have into making you happy. But right now, I barely have enough energy for my various therapy sessions, and my healing process. I need to be selfish on this journey so that I can heal properly and be ready for the kind of relationship that I want. I feel it would be selfish and unfair to you to keep you around and not give you enough, and make you unhappy."

Remember, my guy said had we stayed together then we wouldn’t be together now. I think he needs time, and it’s insightful for him to recognize that. It’s also respectful to you, he is being honest and he’s not stringing you along...

1 hour ago, DatingMom said:

Then he said that he's not possessive, and if I were ok continuing to see each other whenever possible, he would be happy if I dated other men, considered other options.

Except, he wants to string you along... He is going to selfishly take what he wants from you... and he offers you essentially NOTHING in return. No doubt, you will try to convince us that you will enjoy the pleasure of his company but you will inevitably become more attached and this will inevitably become more painful to you. I mean, what kind of a man says to a woman that he says he likes - “I’m ok with you dating (and having sex ) with others...” 

This is not respectful to you. My heart would have fallen with this statement - this would have been the moment that I told him I was out. This hurts, a lot. I know. I called my best friend and I cried... 

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In the meantime, he would also like me to participate to one of his psychedelic sessions so that we can get to know each other better.

So, he doesn’t want to be in a relationship with you and he can’t give you what you want - but he wants you to attend his therapy sessions to get to know him better? On what planet is this a good idea? That would be an absolute no for me. 

1 hour ago, DatingMom said:

Finally, at 5 am, we came to the conclusion that we would continue seeing each other, and that I would continue dating but wouldn't tell him about it. When we are together, we would just focus on each other. Like a relationship inside a bubble.

Sure. Let’s see how that goes for you... 

You are NOT capable of dating others and forming other attachments right now because you have feelings for this man. I don’t see it happening. You will likely grow more frustrated because you continue to date a man that can’t give you what you really want. 

1 hour ago, DatingMom said:

He also offered - although he did say that was not his first choice - to stop seeing each other and that he will come back when he feels more whole. He said "I would come back, I can guarantee that. But I realize that you might have moved on."

This obviously would be my only answer. I would have told him to take the time that you need, call me when you are more serious and IF I am not dating anyone at that time... I may consider it. He may be a nice guy and he may have feelings for you, but he is not emotionally available and he can not give you what you really want right now. Anything else you do is just going to get confusing and it will cause you pain when you inevitably get attached and it inevitably falls apart...

Edited May 15, 2021 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

57 minutes ago, DatingMom said:

I don't think that he wants a FWB situation.

No, he is offering you less than a FWB situation. He wants to continue to enjoy your companionship and the sex - and he doesn’t care if you date others. What a complete and utter waste of your time. Sorry. 

Quote

It is for sure hurtful at a certain level. And I was honest that this is who I felt about it. On the other hand, I do understand what he is saying to me.

Don’t over think this. We women are very capable of twisting ourselves into pretzels to keep a relationship we want. We set our sights on a man and convince ourselves that we share a connection that is fated in the stars. We project, we empathize, we rationalize, we justify all kinds of behavior from men that offer us less than they should - less than we want and less than we deserve. 

Just look at the facts here - sure, you have a connection with this man but you have known him a very short time. He can go from your life and you will continue to move on and find another connection with another man - or not. No need to compromise your worth or your self respect for this man. For whatever reason, he is not emotionally available to be in a relationship with you right now. Be grateful for his honesty and wish him well. Keep your dignity, if nothing else. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by BaileyB

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, DatingMom said:

In the meantime, he would also like me to participate to one of his psychedelic sessions so that we can get to know each other better.

Like mushrooms?

The disadvantage of falling for someone who is emotionally unavailable is that you will always feel as if something is wrong with you. If you stay long enough, you may become emotionally unavailable too.

[FMW]

Emotionally unavailable men sometimes have the effect of making women (not ALL women, but enough to make it a not uncommon experience - plenty of stories here on LS to support that) want to be understanding, empathetic and try to meet their needs.  And that happens at the expense of being drained of your energy and having your needs left spectacularly unmet.  If that goes on for too long you forget that you should make yourself a priority and begin to feel it's normal to be the one sacrificing what you want and need.  You then feel guilty about even thinking about moving on to something better for yourself.  I'm sure that sounds melodramatic, but once you start down that path it's not unlikely that's where you'll end up.

Alternatively, you will become more and more frustrated and resentful and repeatedly feel the need to have "talks" about the situation.  Neither you nor him will want that drama.  And now since he's laid his cards out on the table, if you continue seeing him he'll believe you are on board with however much or little he has to offer you.

It seems to me that you already care too much about this guy to be able to keep seeing him AND give any other guy a real chance at connecting with you.

I would advise you to stop seeing this guy.  If it's really meant to be, your time will come later when he's sorted himself out.  Don't drag yourself down with him in the meantime. 

[divegrl]

Hi friend....

I agree with the other responses on here. 
 

Just one note.... please do NOT do mushrooms with this man. Your first experience could be terrifying; and you need someone there that you fully and completely trust to guide you through. Knowing this guy for a couple months does not qualify. 
 

Please be safe. 

[DatingMom]

Thanks for all the responses. For those who said that I've become quite attached, you are right. I think it's especially the last few weeks where things have become more intense. I saw him 4 days in a row this week, and we spent 30+ hours in conversation. 

I hear everyone that says to just walk away. I realize that this is probably the best thing to do. But I decided to not make any decisions right now. I just talked to him earlier, and told him that I'm gonna take a break of seeing him this week just to give myself some head space. I want to spend some time seeing friends instead, and maybe go on a date with someone else. Kind of put things in perspective a bit. 

As for the mushroom thing, I already said no to that. Definitely would only do that with someone I fully trust and that might not disappear from my life shortly after. 

[Gaeta]

So sounds like he offered you an open relationship. It doesn't sound very promissing. It's hard to understand why you hang on to a man you didn't know 6 weeks ago. You see the cliff ahead but still chose to remain on board the wagon.

[poppyfields]

@DatingMomif your goal wasn't an exclusive committed relationship, I'd say enjoy, have fun with it.. keeping options open and dating other men.

BUT since that is your goal, I agree with those who say cut your losses, next.

Not sure what's going on with him but at best he sounds conflicted with all his mixed messages, at worst he is simply not all that interested.

Deep convos are great but best to keep it in proper perspective, and don't attach meaning to them where none is there...

Edited May 16, 2021 by poppyfields

[BaileyB]

Indeed. Six weeks into a new relationship shouldn’t require 30 hours of deep conversation... You are in too deep if this is what’s happening. 

[DatingMom]

49 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

It's hard to understand why you hang on to a man you didn't know 6 weeks ago. You see the cliff ahead but still chose to remain on board the wagon.

Yes, I agree with this statement actually. And I'm really not sure what the answer is. I'm usually pretty good at walking away. In the years since my separation, I've walked away from a good 4 situations/relationships not unsimilar to this one. Mostly emotionally unavailable men, one one instance someone I dated for a year and a half and became emotionally unavailable in the process. What's interesting is that in all those instances, of course my heart told me to stay, but my head said "run", and my gut would say the same. Here, my heart, very predicability is saying stay, my head also very predictably is saying run, but my gut is telling me "don't run too quickly". I've had a lot of relationships in my life: there is something here that is different. 

 

32 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Not sure what's going on with him but at best he sounds conflicted with all his mixed messages, at worst he is simply not all that interested.

I definitely don't think he's not interested. I honestly think that the only problem here is timing. I don't see any other problems. Which makes this difficult. 

[DatingMom]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

Indeed. Six weeks into a new relationship shouldn’t require 30 hours of deep conversation... You are in too deep if this is what’s happening. 

Well, it's more like 9 weeks and close to 20 dates, but I see what you're saying. 

[BaileyB]

5 minutes ago, DatingMom said:

I honestly think that the only problem here is timing. I don't see any other problems. Which makes this difficult. 

It’s still a pretty big problem. 

If timing is the only problem, give it some time... If it’s meant to be, it will be. 

You must be prepared to let this go... if the timing isn’t right, it will not work. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by BaileyB

[Dis]

On 5/13/2021 at 2:05 PM, DatingMom said:

 

However, given he is recently separated

Well that was pertinent info that would've helped us figure things out awhile ago  

[Dis]

It all sounds very one sided. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he sounds like a bad person but it seems like you're rearranging what you want for him and for an outcome that won't work well for you

 

He also sounds very lukewarm about you from some of the things you mentioned he said like, "what if I meet someone at work" and that he had to think for awhile to figure out if he would be hurt if you saw other people. 

 

I think he just wants someone around when it suits him and it could be anyone...not really you 

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, Alpaca said:

Like mushrooms?

Agree. So many red flags 🚩.

Tripping 🍄 instead of appropriate mental health care 👩‍⚕️

Still married 👫

Wants to appear for dinner and sex, but not available for a relationship 🍽️👣👣

Trying to string you along as a bandaid through his divorce 💔💊.

Maybe after this last talk, you'll have time to reflect on what you want right now and in the future.🔮

[DatingMom]

10 hours ago, Dis said:

Well that was pertinent info that would've helped us figure things out awhile ago  

Well, he's not that recently separated. It's been a year, and they're just finalizing their divorce papers. I'm not actually sure that the main problem here is the separation. I think it's part of a whole. He is dealing with a lot of stuff overall, not just his separation. 

I hear everyone's comments and truly appreciate you taking the time to give me your input. I know that some way or another, I need to take a step or several steps back here. I want to give it some thought, clear my head by not seeing him and focusing on myself for a little bit. I'm trying to figure out if I could continue seeing him as a lover and nothing more while exploring other options, without that making me upset (I'm not sure that's possible), or staying friends with him with no sex until he makes up his mind, or if the only solution is walking away and moving on with the possibility he'll be back.

[Gaeta]

26 minutes ago, DatingMom said:

I'm trying to figure out if I could continue seeing him as a lover and nothing more while exploring other options

Here is my thought & experience on that. 

To seek a romantic partner we need our 'edge'. We need our desire to mate on the high. For women it's what makes us become seductress when we're on dates and it's what attracts men toward us. If you have your sexual need met by a lover you're losing that edge when you out looking for a man. Think of it as feeding a lion before sending him to chase, how motivated you think he'll be if his belly is full. 

My opinion is if you keep this man as a lover you will go out on dates with other men while your belly full and because of that you won't connec with anyone else. 

Not long ago you had 3 prospects. That tells me you are a woman that has no difficulty attracting dates. 

Don't you think that the person you are, your heart, mind and body don't deserve more and the crumbs he's able to throw at you?

Edited May 16, 2021 by Gaeta