Combating Racism in America

[Cookiesandough]

16 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

My belief is that the majority of disproportionate suffering that the black population endures is a product of historic racism. Generation after generation of a whole group of people being dehumanized. A few laws changing in the 60s isn’t a magic pill that eliminates all that pain.

There is no greater burden to carry than the burden of feeling worthless. And that’s the message the black community has had thrown at them through a lot of American history. Have things changed - sure. 
 

Kids being raised by parents that feel like they’re worthless will almost always result in a dysfunctional upbringing. Which leads to all sorts of bad outcomes. Makes sense that feelings of worthlessness is felt disproportionately by the black population because that was literally how they were seen by white people historically. Again things are better now, and people are shamed for being racist, and white supremacy is certainly the exception rather than the rule. But change happens slowly and over generations. You can’t magically fix a dysfunctional upbringing. 

I agree wholeheartedly with this post and I do think that it any change should start with the FAMILY. One thing I see is that in Asian families  there is 0 self-pity allowed. You aren't successful, it's not because of white people. It's because you were too s***ty to be successful, lol. Now I'm not saying that is the right thing, but if I ever had a black child, I would tell them "You are privileged to be born exactly who you are. No one is more privileged than you. There are racist, hateful, ignorant, negative people in all walks of life and you must learn to not let that impact your success in life."  Ugly people get discriminated against, pretty people. Tall people. Short people.

 

Racism will still exist I'm just saying that is a good start

Edited June 2, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[preraph]

Some people are mean.  Sometimes it's because of color.  Sometimes it's because of distrust due to crime, etc.  Some people will yell at a fat girl out their car window too.  Some people get it worse than others, and race is one reason.  I think people on TV using the term "white privilege" is mean and insulting and presumtuous and racist.  Everybody does need to be nicer.  

[Gr8fuln2020]

13 minutes ago, Zona said:

What do you of Trump's prison reform?

Interesting. As any law, it really helps to read the finer details. The devil is in the details, as they say. In principle, it sounds like a step forward, but we will see how it is actually applied. Thanks for that. I will need to speak to my legal friends to see what the actual impact has been and whether there are other details that make it's current form difficult to implement.  

[preraph]

I don't approve of a lot of the prison reform.  There's already been significant reoffending from it.  I do believe in some very selective prison reform.  I think where they screwed up is criminals typically plead down to lesser offenses, so that is what is in the record.  So they are freeing people for what  seem like lesser offenses, but they may have gone in for something much worse and pled down to that, and I'm following it and seeing some violent people offending who were released in this program, when violent offenders were not supposed to be part of it. 

 

I would dearly love to see marijuana just decriminalized except for large dealings (once it's legal, then that would be like bootlegging) and get those people out of jail and stop checking motorists because the car smells like pot.  Buttttttt, even when decriminalized, it will still be illegal to drive high, just like alcohol, and though some of my friends say it doesn't affect them, it did me, worse than alcohol in some ways.  Depth perception of lights, etc.    

[preraph]

P.S.  You want to know why both sides of the political spectrum actually want to have prison reform?  Because prisons are full and have been for a long time and they don't want to have to spend money building more.

[gaius]

14 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

My belief is that the majority of disproportionate suffering that the black population endures is a product of historic racism. Generation after generation of a whole group of people being dehumanized. A few laws changing in the 60s isn’t a magic pill that eliminates all that pain.

There is no greater burden to carry than the burden of feeling worthless. And that’s the message the black community has had thrown at them through a lot of American history. Have things changed - sure.

I've worked with and around hundreds of black people in the last few years and self confidence never seemed to be much of an issue. Want to know one thing that did seem to be a problem? Lighting. Not always, but often enough when I'd go into black homes there wouldn't be much working lighting and even if there was they'd often have it turned off. To the point where I'd always take a flashlight in with me when I pulled up and realized my customer was black. After enough trips back out to my van to get one I learned.

Does that make me a racist? Do you think that behavior developed because people are historically racist? Of course not. It's one of many dysfunctional behavior patterns that have been passed down through the generations in many families. Black people are not the only group that suffers from this. My Italian family did as well, except with different issues.

The main difference with black people is that few outsiders have really cared enough to spend the time and energy helping fix it. We're not even honest about what the real problems are. Which is sad and unfortunate.

[preraph]

Wonder why that was.  My own sister doesn't have a working light in any room except the kitchen.  When she went in the hospital I was having to go over there and fixed it all, but she hates lighting.  She lives in the dark.  She's a weirdo.  I mean, could be saving money, but that wasn't the case with my sister.  

 

Now you've got me thinking.  I can never tell if the people across the street from me are home.  There's never a light in their living room or a feint glow from another part of the house.  They're a mixed race household.  Of course, I don't usually have light on in my living room either because I'm rarely in there, but you can see a feint glow.  Afraid of drive-by shootings??  I mean, not in my neighborhood, but I could see that in bad places.

Edited June 2, 2020 by preraph

[Snow_Queen]

18 hours ago, gaius said:

Have you ever actually been to the south? I was astonished by how integrated it was when I moved down here compared to up north. Growing up in Massachusetts they had to bus blacks in from the inner city to my school because none lived in my town. But down here it's hard to find a neighborhood without diversity, no matter how expensive the houses are. There are also way more black business owners.

Anyway, if anyone ever actually spends some time in the working class black community, instead of just reading or listening to lectures about "systemic racism" and all that nonsense, you'll quickly realize the police are not the problem. It takes about 5 minutes. Despite there being a lot of diversity and wonderful people in the black community itself there are some real, hardcore problems that have nothing to do with the police that we've failed as a society to address. Or even acknowledge. And defending the kind of looting and violence that is going just exacerbates the problem.

As someone who’s from the Deep South, I appreciate this comment very much. People who aren’t familiar with the area tend to think if you’re white and southern, you must be racist. The truth is, we are actually quite intertwined.

My hometown is a city many African Americans venture to from all over the US due to this very aspect. It never once occurred to me that racial tension still existed as fiercely as it does until I traveled to other areas in the US.  

[SincereOnlineGuy]

22 hours ago, Zona said:

 

My wife's best friend is from Zambia.  Her attitude, and the attitude of other recent black immigrants is completely different from the average African American.

 

Of course...

She wasn't raised by people who were raised by people who were raised by people who were raised by people who were raised by people who were once enslaved.

 

Raw skin color has zero direct connection with poverty in America... the complaint is that 'black' is viewed as a first suggestion/implication that one is poor.  And ultimately it's the poor people as a group who are doing nearly all of the looting...   and of course it is the poor who are treated worse than are any other subset of Americans bar none.  (so which came first:   the looting or the bad treatment of the poor by the society all around?)

 

Eventually when sufficient attention is directed back toward taking wide measures to enhance the lives of the poor across the spectrum, 'racism' will magically become less and less of a visible issue.

(this extra $600 a week unemployment these days is a curious social experiment... and I wonder if a good number of people out there  are strangely able to afford MORE now, while unemployed, than they are during a typical work year)  (NOT that society could afford to sustain that $600 boost every week to very many people)

[preraph]

We had the lowest unemployment right before covid that we've ever had, especially in the black community.  And then this.  

[Zona]

19 minutes ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

Eventually when sufficient attention is directed back toward taking wide measures to enhance the lives of the poor across the spectrum, 'racism' will magically become less and less of a visible issue.

I'm not sure what you are really advocating. 

AFAIK a good job is the best social program that exists.

[Zona]

39 minutes ago, Snow_Queen said:

As someone who’s from the Deep South, I appreciate this comment very much. People who aren’t familiar with the area tend to think if you’re white and southern, you must be racist. The truth is, we are actually quite intertwined.

My hometown is a city many African Americans venture to from all over the US due to this very aspect. It never once occurred to me that racial tension still existed as fiercely as it does until I traveled to other areas in the US.  

In the media, southerners are often portrayed as bigoted shotgun toting rednecks. Seems to me that is totally unfair. Even for an outsider, it's obvious there has been a lot of integration. I'm not sure who questioned it, but I am an American, although I did spend some time in Canada growing up. I am an American citizen though.

[simpycurious]

1 hour ago, Snow_Queen said:

As someone who’s from the Deep South, I appreciate this comment very much. People who aren’t familiar with the area tend to think if you’re white and southern, you must be racist. The truth is, we are actually quite intertwined.

My hometown is a city many African Americans venture to from all over the US due to this very aspect. It never once occurred to me that racial tension still existed as fiercely as it does until I traveled to other areas in the US.  

Very well said ^^^....I totally agree and appreciate your post.  I would venture to say that I grew up in a culture that people would associate with being racist (privileged caucasian) and I couldn't be further from a racist person.  So, you can not necessarily judge a person (as to what they do or don't believe) simply from their background. 

I would also say that the Asian people that I know very well are some of these brightest and most sensible people you will find anywhere.  

Edited June 3, 2020 by simpycurious

[Woggle]

The North can be just as racist as The South. I don't know if I am allowed to post it but there is a documentary on you tube about a black family moving in to a Queens NY neighborhood and the bigotry on display is just disgusting. In the past decade there has been a large black migration of people moving to The South actually. Boston also has a big history of racism.

[simpycurious]

1 hour ago, simpycurious said:

Very well said ^^^....I totally agree and appreciate your post.  I would venture to say that I grew up in a culture that people would associate with being racist (privileged caucasian) and I couldn't be further from a racist person.  So, you can not necessarily judge a person (as to what they do or don't believe) simply from their background. 

I would also say that the Asian people that I know very well are some of these brightest and most sensible people you will find anywhere.  

Woggle is right........racists are everywhere.  There is nothing attractive about being a racist.  

Edited June 3, 2020 by simpycurious

[pepperbird]

4 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

My belief is that the majority of disproportionate suffering that the black population endures is a product of historic racism. Generation after generation of a whole group of people being dehumanized. A few laws changing in the 60s isn’t a magic pill that eliminates all that pain.

There is no greater burden to carry than the burden of feeling worthless. And that’s the message the black community has had thrown at them through a lot of American history. Have things changed - sure. 
 

Kids being raised by parents that feel like they’re worthless will almost always result in a dysfunctional upbringing. Which leads to all sorts of bad outcomes. Makes sense that feelings of worthlessness is felt disproportionately by the black population because that was literally how they were seen by white people historically. Again things are better now, and people are shamed for being racist, and white supremacy is certainly the exception rather than the rule. But change happens slowly and over generations. You can’t magically fix a dysfunctional upbringing. 

If you're comparing it to raising a child, then at what point does the child become an adult?
Quite frankly, I see a lot of patronizing towards African Americans, and it's actually quite degrading. They are every bit as intelligent and capable as anyone else.

[pepperbird]

2 hours ago, Zona said:

I'm not sure what you are really advocating. 

AFAIK a good job is the best social program that exists.

Personally, I agree.

[major_merrick]

I'm all for combatting racism, but it has to be done sensibly.  The leftist way is not the right way, because they don't acknowledge that all people can be racist and capable of hatred.

When I was young, I was subjected to racially-motivated attacks.  I was pretty much the only blonde in the area, and that made me a target.  Other places I've lived, I've seen racism from other groups, and by other groups.  Honestly, less racism by whites overall, but it still exists. 

To me, the solution to racism is for people to recognize SIN.  The human heart is a pretty ugly place because of original sin....and all groups are participants.  Only when you recognize your own potential to be a rather nasty creature can you even begin to deal with it.  And not group is excused!!!

The answer to sin and mistreatment is to find brotherhood/sisterhood through something other than race (which is really pretty superficial).  My community is bonded by faith in Jesus.  My family shares that faith, and my family is multi-ethnic and multi-lingual.  Of course, faith can have its own difficulties when not everybody believes the same thing, but it is one of the few things I've seen that bridges the cultural gap.  Obviously, trying to have a single national identity has not been a great success. 

Edited June 3, 2020 by major_merrick

[pepperbird]

1 hour ago, simpycurious said:

Woggle is right........racists are everywhere.  There is nothing attractive about being a racist.  

The really ironic thing about racism is that, as these genetic testing companies do more and more DNA testing, they're finding that there's not that many "pure" people of any race anymore, at least in North America.
 

[Weezy1973]

13 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

If you're comparing it to raising a child, then at what point does the child become an adult?
Quite frankly, I see a lot of patronizing towards African Americans, and it's actually quite degrading. They are every bit as intelligent and capable as anyone else.

It has nothing to do with intelligence. It has to do with your environment. If you’re middle class, chances are your parents were middle class. If you’re wealthy, chances are your parents were wealthy. And if you’re poor, chances are your parents were poor. We learn about the world through our parents. For kids to have a better outcome then their parents, the parents have to magically know how to be different and pass that on to their kids. 
 

But generally speaking, people know what they know. Poor kids learn from their parents how to be poor. Middle class kids learn how to be middle class. And wealthy kids learn how to be wealthy. 

[pepperbird]

8 minutes ago, major_merrick said:

I'm all for combatting racism, but it has to be done sensibly.  The leftist way is not the right way, because they don't acknowledge that all people can be racist and capable of hatred.

When I was young, I was subjected to racially-motivated attacks.  I was pretty much the only blonde in the area, and that made me a target.  Other places I've lived, I've seen racism from other groups, and by other groups.  Honestly, less racism by whites overall, but it still exists. 

To me, the solution to racism is for people to recognize SIN.  The human heart is a pretty ugly place because of original sin....and all groups are participants.  Only when you recognize your own potential to be a rather nasty creature can you even begin to deal with it.  And not group is excused!!!

The answer to sin and mistreatment is to find brotherhood/sisterhood through something other than race (which is really pretty superficial).  My community is bonded by faith in Jesus.  My family shares that faith, and my family is multi-ethnic and multi-lingual.  Of course, faith can have its own difficulties when not everybody believes the same thing, but it is one of the few things I've seen that bridges the cultural gap.  Obviously, trying to have a single national identity has not been a great success. 

 A significant proportion of the population counts itself as "christain", and Jesus must have his eyes closed lately because that sure isn't bringing people together.
As an outsider looking in, the one thing that seems to bring America together is war. i will never forget seeing the crowds after 9/11 on TV. No one cared what colour their skin was- they were untied.

 

Edited June 3, 2020 by pepperbird

[pepperbird]

2 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

It has nothing to do with intelligence. It has to do with your environment. If you’re middle class, chances are your parents were middle class. If you’re wealthy, chances are your parents were wealthy. And if you’re poor, chances are your parents were poor. We learn about the world through our parents. For kids to have a better outcome then their parents, the parents have to magically know how to be different and pass that on to their kids. 
 

But generally speaking, people know what they know. Poor kids learn from their parents how to be poor. Middle class kids learn how to be middle class. And wealthy kids learn how to be wealthy. 

then is that racial or more tied to wealth?
My older daughter was admitted to university after working her behind off and overcoming challenges that would have laid others low. She was admitted because she deserved it.
Meanwhile, a wealthy alumni donates some cash and their son or daughter gets early admission and extra perks as well.

[Weezy1973]

14 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

then is that racial or more tied to wealth?

Black Africans were brought to America as slaves. 

[preraph]

The saddest thing is they were sold into slavery by other Black Africans in their homeland. Nobody likes to talk about that. They were originally sold in Benin by powerful kings in rival tribes to the Portuguese, with other countries quickly to follow.

I remember over a decade ago probably more like 15 years when Oprah got her DNA done and went to her ancestral village for the first time. There was a special on about it. And it was just absolutely horrifying to discover that children were still being sold over there openly. I don't know if it ever stopped or not. 

Edited June 3, 2020 by preraph

[Gr8fuln2020]

10 minutes ago, preraph said:

The saddest thing is they were sold into slavery by other Black Africans in their homeland. Nobody likes to talk about that. They were originally sold in Benin by powerful kings in rival tribes to the Portuguese.  

I remember over a decade ago probably more like 15 years when Oprah got her DNA done and went to her ancestral village for the first time. There was a special on about it. And it was just absolutely horrifying to discover that children were still being sold over there openly. I don't know if it ever stopped or not. 

Classic counter argument which has no teeth to the slavery that existed in the US. I have heard this from people who hate the idea of admitting that slavery was, without question, a predominant institution created, regulated, and fashioned by the white slavers and leaders of this country. Slavery is not a new concept. When you conquered other peoples, it was typical for the conquered to be enslaved. When some rival tribes facilitated in the slave trade, early on, they had no idea that the American style of slavery was not going to care who were/are...as Europe began fading its hunger for slavery, the USA went full throttle. 

Slavery still exists in many parts of the world. Not only in parts of Africa. How about the sexual slave trade here in the USA and other parts of the world. And how some American men participate and engage in it. Of course, if this is not the kind of human subjugation you are referring to and only want to focus on the transgressions of the slavery in this country....the saddest thing not what you claim it to be. 

Edited June 3, 2020 by Gr8fuln2020