Combating Racism in America

[pepperbird]

This is just my opinion...and I hope no one minds that I give the background.

I was adopted, and I had no real idea what my racial background was. To me, race never mattered because it's kind of hard to be against a race you might be a part of.  It may sound silly, but I developed the belief that it's not always helpful to view societal problems from a distance-it can be better to reduce it to the individual.

What makes one young black American stay in school, go to university or pick up a good trade and have a successful and happy life while another ends up in prison? What were their individual circumstances that created these two different life paths?

Edited June 1, 2020 by pepperbird

[stillafool]

Just now, pepperbird said:

What makes one young black American stay in school, go to university or pick up a good trade and have a successful and happy life while another ends up in prison? What were their individual circumstances that created these two different life paths?

More than likely it was strong parenting.

[pepperbird]

2 minutes ago, stillafool said:

More than likely it was strong parenting.

If that's true ( and I have no idea if it is or isn't), then could that be a starting point to helping to end the cycle?
I don't think it's even always that the parents are "bad parents"- some have to work so hard just to put food on the table they may not have much time left in their day.

[stillafool]

4 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

If that's true ( and I have no idea if it is or isn't), then could that be a starting point to helping to end the cycle?
I don't think it's even always that the parents are "bad parents"- some have to work so hard just to put food on the table they may not have much time left in their day.

There are single mothers who are raising fine children who want to achieve something and improve their situation.  These women need to be a model for other single mothers.  I think at a certain level of income and if you have children you receive food assistance from the government, which helps.  The main thing that the Black community needs is guidance from their so called leaders.  Those people never come to talk to them.  Look no one showed up in Detroit but Trump.

[Zona]

America has spent trillions trying to eradicate poverty in the black community. Housing projects, welfare, food stamps, etc.  It's got us very little. Most of those housing projects are now crime infested dumps.

What's allowing African Americans to escape poverty? Pre covid, it was the surging economy and low unemployment rate in the black community, but also the same things that anyone can use to improve their lot. Education, a good attitude, and hard work.

[Emilie Jolie]

Do you think the Black American community is afflicted by a poor attitude, no interest in education and laziness as a default setting? 

9 minutes ago, Zona said:

Education, a good attitude, and hard work.

 

[preraph]

3 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Do you think the Black American community is afflicted by a poor attitude, no interest in education and laziness as a default setting? 

 

You didn't ask me, but I believe the vast majority of the black community want what everyone else wants, which is to make an honest living, feed their kids, and help their neighbors. I don't think most of them want this drama or people like antifa exploiting them or putting them in the spotlight.

[Cookiesandough]

Hi. I just wanted to update. I went and I am home. Still have both my eyeballs. It was a lot quieter on the front than usual, or at least from what I saw/heard, but it’s a weekday. Honestly, it wasn’t what I expected(more action, I guess), but it was a very interesting and educational experience. 
 

I want to add some of my thoughts regarding why crime is so high in black community.  I once read a book by the great thinker Thomas Sowell called Discrimination and Disparities. In it, he explains in-depth about how in early 20th century America , blacks had more intact families and also lower rate of unemployment than whites, even though they were poorer. Black crime was actually going down in the 50s and there was less crime in black communities before the ‘60s. That is where we saw a huge explosion of the welfare state.  It did temporarily decrease poverty, but long-term  it caused  generation after generation of reliance on the state, broken homes/illegitimacy, and learned helplessness for some black people.

 

That’s just one theory and he shows the numbers way better than I can. Definitely check the book. 

 

Also , the police offer who killed George Floyd s ex wife says she is asking for the home  and 1/2 assets in the divorce, but no spousal support. 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Gr8fuln2020]

51 minutes ago, preraph said:

You didn't ask me, but I believe the vast majority of the black community want what everyone else wants, which is to make an honest living, feed their kids, and help their neighbors. I don't think most of them want this drama or people like antifa exploiting them or putting them in the spotlight.

I don't know a human being, who hasn't lost hope or too angry, that doesn't want what is best for themselves. People will demonize those they hate and marginalize by saying things like "they don't want success", "they are lazy", etc. Man, the post-civil war elite used to argue that the slaves were happy being slaves.  And some people, too many, bought it. 

Antifa is a scourge. A recent cancerous and violent group bent mostly on undermining a global economic system, in itself corrupt. But we also the other groups, the KKK, Neo-Nazis...to which too many shrug their shoulders and dismiss. 

[major_merrick]

5 minutes ago, Zona said:

That's interesting. Why do you think that African Americans in the south seem to be integrating with fewer problems, at least compared to the big blue cities in the northeast and west coast?

I would love to know.  I grew up in a bigger, blue city....and there was tons of racial conflict there.  Living in a predominantly poor, black neighborhood.... yeah it wasn't good for this blonde girl.  But where I live now?  Totally different feel.  Of course, the nearby city is probably 40% Hispanic and maybe 5% Black.  But we just don't have that racial tension.  I live in a rural county that has historically been a center of prejudice.  Klan and such.  Not anymore.  Black neighbors down the road, and from what I see everybody around treats them the same as they treat the other families here. 

My opinion is that living urban just brings with it an increased tension.  And when people get tense, they blame others around them.  And the easiest target is somebody who looks different or acts different from you.  Out here in the country, if you have enemies it is usually a generations-old family feud.  That's personal, not racial or cultural.  But the general environment is just less tense overall. 

[Cookiesandough]

Anyone else think it’s really weird that we call each other black people and white people the majority of us are dark brown to light peach? Idk also no one calls reds and yellows anymore because it’s racist. . Black and white also sound  racist to me.,, wish we could come up with better descriptors, , if we must have them. 

[amaysngrace]

15 minutes ago, Zona said:

That's interesting. Why do you think that African Americans in the south seem to be integrating with fewer problems, at least compared to the big blue cities in the northeast and west coast?

I’ll answer even though you didn’t ask me.  I’ll await MMs answer too, she’s pretty perceptive, but I think it’s cause the big city types thrive on creating animosity.  They continually focus on differences.  They don’t see what brings us together, how much we are actually alike, as humans.  

Instead they push people down and tell them who’s responsible for their problems.  Then they step in and claim to be saviors.  

But truly they are anything but.  True saviors empower others.  They don’t hold them down.     

[major_merrick]

1 minute ago, Cookiesandough said:

Anyone else think it’s really weird that we call each other black people and white people the majority of us are dark brown to light peach? Idk also no one calls reds and yellows anymore because it’s racist. . Black and white also sound  racist to me.,, wish we could come up with better descriptors, , if we must have them. 

Yeah I agree with that.  My family is multi-ethnic.  I'm probably the palest one, and Wife #4 is probably the darkest one.  We're all various shades of brown.  To me, being called "white" sounds racist.  Because it assumes that I'm the same as a German or an Italian.  I'm Russian....and that makes me different.  And then...what do you call people of mixed ethnicity?  My husband's kids are all a mix of some kind.  My husband himself has ancestors of multiple origins.  Someday, we'll all just get to be PEOPLE.  That will be nice.

1 minute ago, amaysngrace said:

I’ll answer even though you didn’t ask me.  I’ll await MMs answer too, she’s pretty perceptive, but I think it’s cause the big city types thrive on creating animosity.  They continually focus on differences.  They don’t see what brings us together, how much we are actually alike, as humans.  

I believe you are on to something.  It is about power.  And power in the city is derived somewhat differently.  Group vs. group, and money over everything.  Out here, power is more...hereditary?  I don't really know how to explain it.  But it has a different feel to it entirely.  And power/influence is inextricably linked to relationships with others, and that power is enhanced by keeping the peace in the community even in spite of personal conflicts. 

[Gr8fuln2020]

4 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Anyone else think it’s really weird that we call each other black people and white people the majority of us are dark brown to light peach? Idk also no one calls reds and yellows anymore because it’s racist. . Black and white also sound  racist to me.,, wish we could come up with better descriptors, , if we must have them. 

Amen. Racial laws, codified, in this country, made distinctions even to the level of what fraction you were black. Whether 1/2 or 1/4 or 1/16 black, in some places, that would determine what limited rights you would have. So, essentially, what has happened, however and whatever your "mixture" the limiting of your rights for the colonialist establishment that used such a system, is people of any African American (black) heritage simplifies it to regards themselves are just black. There was a time when filling out certain forms, when asked to select your 'race', there was only black or caucasian (white). Nothing in between. 

[Gr8fuln2020]

14 minutes ago, amaysngrace said:

I’ll answer even though you didn’t ask me.  I’ll await MMs answer too, she’s pretty perceptive, but I think it’s cause the big city types thrive on creating animosity.  They continually focus on differences.  They don’t see what brings us together, how much we are actually alike, as humans.  

Instead they push people down and tell them who’s responsible for their problems.  Then they step in and claim to be saviors.  

But truly they are anything but.  True saviors empower others.  They don’t hold them down.     

There is no way that people in the rural parts of the country are any more satisfied. Racial tensions, of the most primitive type, exist in the rural South for sure. It's just that, based on the segregation history of the south, people may simply keep out of each other's way. But believe me, if one of them cross that train track or cross that line...all bets are off. It is easier to see progress (in the South) when there really was no other way to go, but up. 

Yeah, I love liberals. They have this attitude that they are so much more embracing...not much more. 

 

[gaius]

1 hour ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

There is no way that people in the rural parts of the country are any more satisfied. Racial tensions, of the most primitive type, exist in the rural South for sure. It's just that, based on the segregation history of the south, people may simply keep out of each other's way. But believe me, if one of them cross that train track or cross that line...all bets are off. It is easier to see progress (in the South) when there really was no other way to go, but up. 

Yeah, I love liberals. They have this attitude that they are so much more embracing...not much more.

Have you ever actually been to the south? I was astonished by how integrated it was when I moved down here compared to up north. Growing up in Massachusetts they had to bus blacks in from the inner city to my school because none lived in my town. But down here it's hard to find a neighborhood without diversity, no matter how expensive the houses are. There are also way more black business owners.

Anyway, if anyone ever actually spends some time in the working class black community, instead of just reading or listening to lectures about "systemic racism" and all that nonsense, you'll quickly realize the police are not the problem. It takes about 5 minutes. Despite there being a lot of diversity and wonderful people in the black community itself there are some real, hardcore problems that have nothing to do with the police that we've failed as a society to address. Or even acknowledge. And defending the kind of looting and violence that is going just exacerbates the problem.

[Zona]

12 minutes ago, gaius said:

I was astonished by how integrated it was when I moved down here compared to up north. 

That has been my impression for a while now.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Zona

[TheStickisback]

4 hours ago, Zona said:

That's interesting. Why do you think that African Americans in the south seem to be integrating with fewer problems, at least compared to the big blue cities in the northeast and west coast?

Well Southerner here. Back in the day during Jim Crow you had some poor whites working with blacks doing same thing in rural areas. A lot of issues had to get dealt with head on as opposed to other regions where neighborhoods were segregated and no one had to deal with those issues. South had very little redlining or sundown towns

[sothereiwas]

  

10 hours ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

"the most robberies"  are perpetrated by poor people...      and the poor are disproportionately comprised of racial minorities,

Again, it's useful to look at the actual facts. While minorities have a higher poverty RATE, the number of americans living in poverty differs from the rates due to population differences. According to figures published by federalsafetynet.com, 15.7 million white, non-hispanic Americans live in poverty compared with 8.9 million black people, and 10.5 million hispanics. So that would seem to falsify your theory. 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by sothereiwas

[Piddy]

Some tidbits.  There was no anti lynching laws passed by the federal government in the 20th century.  Also, when President Johnson passed civil rights legislation in the mid 1960's the southern politicians told him the Democrats would lose the south for a generation.

And that did happen.  Some of the Dixiecrats however became Republicans.  If reconstruction had been allowed to continue we may have a different history to look back on.  But that didn't happen.  I wish people would educate them selves on how systematic / institutionalized racism came about.

  It really explains how we got where we are.  It helps explain how systemic racism is real.   With things like, "Wealth Gap, Employment, Housing Discrimination, Government Surveillance, Incarceration, Drug Arrests, Immigration Arrests, Infant Mortality… yes, systemic racism is really a thing."

This video below helps to explain that systemic racism is a real thing.  There's 5 short videos (~ 1 minute each) that may help to understand.

https://www.raceforward.org/videos/systemic-racism

Edited June 2, 2020 by Piddy

[pepperbird]

15 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Do you think the Black American community is afflicted by a poor attitude, no interest in education and laziness as a default setting? 

 

A fellow student of my daughter's was in university up here, and the poor kid did everything people are told to do to achieve success. She was in university, was also working as a nurse and sending money home to her family in Jamaica. When the universities closed, she stayed with us for a while until she coudl go out to strat her

 

15 hours ago, Zona said:

Not laziness but definitely the other two. They are brainwashed from an early age to become victims. That needs to stop. 

Maybe I live in a bubble,  but with the exception of one or two people throughout my entire life, I have never met a racist person. We all want the black community to succeed.

My wife's best friend is from Zambia.  Her attitude, and the attitude of other recent black immigrants is completely different from the average African American.

Our younger duaghter goes to uni. with a woman form Jamaica. When they were closed, she came to stay with us while she waited to find out what she was supposed to do.
Along with being a student and on the Dean's List, she's also working here as a nurse. From what she says, her family back home isn't what anyone would consider privileged,  and she's working hard to succeed. She's overcome a lot of barriers, and she just takes them in stride.

 

[pepperbird]

15 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

Hi. I just wanted to update. I went and I am home. Still have both my eyeballs. It was a lot quieter on the front than usual, or at least from what I saw/heard, but it’s a weekday. Honestly, it wasn’t what I expected(more action, I guess), but it was a very interesting and educational experience. 
 

I want to add some of my thoughts regarding why crime is so high in black community.  I once read a book by the great thinker Thomas Sowell called Discrimination and Disparities. In it, he explains in-depth about how in early 20th century America , blacks had more intact families and also lower rate of unemployment than whites, even though they were poorer. Black crime was actually going down in the 50s and there was less crime in black communities before the ‘60s. That is where we saw a huge explosion of the welfare state.  It did temporarily decrease poverty, but long-term  it caused  generation after generation of reliance on the state, broken homes/illegitimacy, and learned helplessness for some black people.

 

That’s just one theory and he shows the numbers way better than I can. Definitely check the book. 

 

Also , the police offer who killed George Floyd s ex wife says she is asking for the home  and 1/2 assets in the divorce, but no spousal support. 

His theory could be sound.
We have the same problem up here, but for a different reason. A lot of our economy is resource based, so it rises and falls accordingly. Unemployment (pogey) and welfare are systemic ( unemployment has historical sat at between 8 and 10 percent) , and that could be part of the problem. Generation after generation have come to depend on it and think they can't do any better. A lot don't even try. They graduate high school and that's it.

The weight of what they think they can't do is so heavy, they often  can't get out from underneath it. It's become part of the culture here- so much so that when the stores are busy, the running joke is that it must be cheque day.

[Zona]

16 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

A fellow student of my daughter's was in university up here, and the poor kid did everything people are told to do to achieve success. She was in university, was also working as a nurse and sending money home to her family in Jamaica. When the universities closed, she stayed with us for a while until she coudl go out to strat her

 

Our younger duaghter goes to uni. with a woman form Jamaica. When they were closed, she came to stay with us while she waited to find out what she was supposed to do.
Along with being a student and on the Dean's List, she's also working here as a nurse. From what she says, her family back home isn't what anyone would consider privileged,  and she's working hard to succeed. She's overcome a lot of barriers, and she just takes them in stride.

 

That was nice that you could give her a place to stay.

I had a chance to speak with my wife's Zambian friend. She actually understood the dynamic pretty well. She knows that the historical injustices of the African American community are something that her family never had to deal with, so it holds no power over her. She doesn't have that baggage to carry. A few A**holes have called her (n-word) but she says it really doesn't mean anything to her because it is foreign to her culture and way of thinking.

[pepperbird]

I think I must be really naive.
We've spent a lot of time in the USA, and I've never been treated badly by anyone of any race. I've found that if one is friendly and treats others with respect, you get it back. It's not hard at all and I've met a lot of really great people that way.

Back in the 60's, my dad, my and has parents drove from Toronto down to Florida, visiting stops along the way. He did the same thing- tried to be a good guest wherever he went. They sort of got a bit lost in Detroit-they took a wrong turn and ended up needed to ask for help. The odd thing was, the group they asked was not very friendly until they saw his Ontario plates- all of a sudden, they became very kind and helpful.

I've often wondered about the different way he was treated. At any rate, they got back on route and headed towards Florida.

From what he's told me, driving through the south was a very sobering experience. Racism up here was/is more "hidden"- there, it was right in his face. my mom told me how they had stopped at a motel that was advertising something about "no coloureds"- he thought that meant it had no colour TVs. I know that sounds stupid, but he'd never seen that sort of thing before. My dad, being the outspoken person he is, used some very choice words to tell the desk clerk how he felt.

Honestly, if that's the legacy some of these communities have when it comes to African Americans, I'm not surprised at the tension. When organizations/ the government/ whoever tries to address this, do they ask the people who are troubled what they need or what they'd like to see happen? If not, why aren't they? Otherwise, it smacks of ableism. I see that a lot being autistic. People are always telling me what I need instead of asking me. In my humble opinion, that really doesn't ceate positive change or make anything better.

[pepperbird]

2 minutes ago, Zona said:

That was nice that you could give her a place to stay.

I had a chance to speak with my wife's Zambian friend. She actually understood the dynamic pretty well. She knows that the historical injustices of the African American community are something that her family never had to deal with, so it holds no power over her. She doesn't have that baggage to carry. A few A**holes have called her (n-word) but she says it really doesn't mean anything to her because it is foreign to her culture and way of thinking.

It was our privilege to be able to help her.