do you just eventually give up?

[chillii]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I don't think I am smarter than anyone at all. The problem I find in general is sure I am only to happy to listen to someone tell me about their favourite things and past times, I once sat a date with an au pair and she spent an hour telling me about the kids she looks after, I asked questions, she told me about the animal shelter she volunteers at. I took an interest in what she said but you know how many questions she asked about me: none. This happens often in fact I went through a stage where I just only talked about whatever the date wanted to talk about which I guess is fine but if she isn't interest in me then why bother.

Happy to share knowledge but in the dating scenario and in life in general I have just become tired of doing so because who really cares what I think about US politics or COVID or the world economy. I am busy reading a really interesting book on Nelson Mandela at the moment, well try bring that up in a date conversation, just finished another on Chernobyl again try talking about that on a date. From a young age the world interested me, leaders interested me, how they think, their experiences and the adversities they faced. Try being up FD Roosevelt on a date and see what that goes. That's the problem really I find myself with knowledge but useless knowledge, Joe big muscle over there can mix a drink, tell you about different drinks and generally goof around, he gets the ladies laughing and smiling...me not so much.

What can do is make Joe look very apathetic but that's irrelevant because she is going home with him because he is fun and sure I might find Miss whoever 5 years later, now a single mom, Joe having run away for his next conquest and then suddenly, well then suddenly I perhaps get a hello or a match on OLD perhaps. Not interested sorry.

I always TRY to be friendly on dates and in general, always try make them smile and laugh, even if I need to sometimes pretend to be the happy go lucky type guy. If I could say ok cool this I what I am going to do on this date, this has worked before so I will use it again then at least I would be able to say well ok I tried something positive but it didn't work. I don't have that positive, its like trying to fry an egg without a pan.

Somewhere along the line I decided the people I might work with and those I simply wouldn't work with, so I usually try find outliers like me, people who don't really fit into the mould too much and this is difficult to find, very actually or I will try with anyone who gives me the time of day on OLD in the name of trying to find some way of actually feeling like I am making progress.

The problem too is that I don't really know what I actually want. The only good thing I know is friend zone but then I wonder well maybe what would more than that be like. Then I look around me and every friend I know barring one has endless relationship issues and then I ask, do I really want that? I wont lie the guys who can go and pick up a lady for a night of fun, I wouldn't mind being a guy like that but again morally could I? Probably not. Just they get that attention I really want.

Often I walk back dates and look at what I did, try work on where I think I made mistakes, try see where I can improve but sometimes I am left with the sense I couldn't read the person so had no idea what they wanted to begin with.

One date I went on with a Swedish tourist, she wanted Sushi, I don't really like it and she teased me and this turned into a fun afternoon of us ordering lots of it and me trying all of it, was just a great time for me and she was really nice and I could be really honest. For me that was a nice way to spend a few hours, that's really my point if I am going to date I must actually enjoy spending time with the person and yes that's a two way street I realise but believe it or not I don't lack date ideas and activity ideas.

In still believe nice begets nice in the way we interact with others and that's pretty much my approach even when I am not treated well. I do sometimes think ladies want super assertive guys, honestly I spent most working days having to be assertive and fixing things that when I am away from work I just want to relax. Good example the one day I met someone and I cant recall how and we spent some time together and I had an work issue and had to be very assertive on the phone "oh I love it when you talk like that".

Irrespective of my ultimate dating fortune I guess there is one thing which remains true, I can keep looking.

 

That's pretty obvious , if you were you'd grasp the needs and simple concepts of interaction between a man and a women and especially of just lightning up a bit . But your so caught up and blocked in the over analyzing of even the smallest of things with it all that's actually points in the other direction if anything , at least in this area that is for sure.Everyone has their area but l've seen even the shyest and most house bound of guys that have literally had no life , just meet someone some how out of the blue and the rest just came naturally. The two l'm thinking about have both been married now for years but l'd say in both it was their one and only ever.

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by chillii

[basil67]

57 minutes ago, chillii said:

That's pretty obvious , if you were you'd grasp the needs and simple concepts of interaction between a man and a women and especially of just lightning up a bit . 

Actually that's not true.  Good or high IQ and social skills aren't related.   Plenty of people on the autism spectrum have regular or high intelligence and low social skills.

(Not making ASD about you ZA.  Just stating that the two aren't related)

[lovelydemon]

Sorry, ZA Dater, no amount of advice (or denial) will change who you are. Almost 2 decades of "learning" social skills and not much to show for it 🤷‍♀️

[chillii]

5 hours ago, basil67 said:

Actually that's not true.  Good or high IQ and social skills aren't related.   Plenty of people on the autism spectrum have regular or high intelligence and low social skills.

(Not making ASD about you ZA.  Just stating that the two aren't related)

l know but in this case l'd beg to differ but whatever , got far more important things goin on .

[serene53]

Seeing that I have been in a similar situation I would like to bring up the subject of not-dating. I am concentrating on my hobbies ( sports, piano, learning new languages,  dancing etc.) and accepting loneliness as a given if it ever comes up which is rather rare these days. I am being approached by people anyway and have recently made a female friend. Also, I am way more assertive in my dealings with men and I am finding male friends, too.

All the time I spent on dating websites might have been invested in something else. However, I was not willing to believe that. I assumed that it is mere statistics. If I keep on searching I would find my man. And yet, I didn't. A therapist is not always needed. One needs to live a life as if one were to stay without a partner. It is worth a try for sure.

Edited June 1, 2020 by serene53

[Cookiesandough]

1 hour ago, serene53 said:

Seeing that I have been in a similar situation I would like to bring up the subject of not-dating. I am concentrating on my hobbies ( sports, piano, learning new languages,  dancing etc.) and accepting loneliness as a given if it ever comes up which is rather rare these days. I am being approached by people anyway and have recently made a female friend. Also, I am way more assertive in my dealings with men and I am finding male friends, too.

All the time I spent on dating websites might have been invested in something else. However, I was not willing to believe that. I assumed that it is mere statistics. If I keep on searching I would find my man. And yet, I didn't. A therapist is not always needed. One needs to live a life as if one were to stay without a partner. It is worth a try for sure.

I kind of like the concept  of ‘not dating’  as a lifestyle vs just being the absence of dating... 

I feel like this is my default way of being and all my dating experiences failed attempts at resisting it. I’m not sure I’m really set up for a LTR. 

My only problem is uneasiness  that doesn’t seem to pass unless I have SOME sort of romantic interaction. I used to call it loneliness, but I’m not really sure if that’s even what it is. I  guess it’s more a desire for the excitement from mutual attraction. Is that a problem for you or have  you found a way around that? Are you not tempted at all by all the guys around you? 

Edited June 1, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[ZA Dater]

I need to thank everyone for responding, I have had a look at much of this again and it would perhaps be true to day some of my posts perhaps don't reflect that better of part of me, to any of those I offended I apologise.

Its funny how the world works sometimes, perhaps one of my closest friends has been through some terrible times with a relationship and a lot of that awfulness has been passed onto me which combined with my own lack of success has given me a very jaded view of dating. I woke up this morning and wondered why I carry all this around with me? What purpose it is serving me?

Basically I took a step back and the conclusion I have is that I really cant go back but I can go forwards and to some extent I get to choose how I approach that. Either I can be bitter or I can do as one of the posters above is doing and simply just live. Yes, I lot of me wants things which are very hard to get but this is true for my entire life so there is always some degree of disappointment about.

What I am going to do, well just be me, enjoy the things I enjoy and well if I ever meet someone I like who enjoys them, then great, if not well then its just not meant to be. I do think I have been lucky in some way with the people I have met in general and perhaps I need to be more thankful for that than look at the negative dating experiences because in some instances they have been the nicest of the nicest even if they had no interest in me. OLD was a mistake I see that now and I understand why because it would always ultimately disappoint when I compare the dates to the people I met in some social interactions. That's why there has been this disconnect for years and I realised that today.

Unfortunately that also where a lot of wow originated. Its an amazing world to be part of but brutal in a way because a shy guy like me will never really ever be of interest to them. Lets put it this way, parts of this world are sometimes rather Gatsby like.

[Weezy1973]

@ZA Dater I say this genuinely in attempt for you to see your patterns in a hope that you will try to break them. The conclusion you came to in the post above is not some unique epiphany. It’s the same conclusion you come to in every epic thread of yours. 
 

And two weeks later you post about some experience on OLD. And the cycle continues. Will this time be different? Maybe, but I have my doubts because in the past, just being you and letting things unfold as they will hasn’t stuck. 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

@ZA Dater I say this genuinely in attempt for you to see your patterns in a hope that you will try to break them. The conclusion you came to in the post above is not some unique epiphany. It’s the same conclusion you come to in every epic thread of yours. 
 

And two weeks later you post about some experience on OLD. And the cycle continues. Will this time be different? Maybe, but I have my doubts because in the past, just being you and letting things unfold as they will hasn’t stuck. 

The difference now is I am basically stuck at home working under lockdown and have been for the last few months so I have fresh perspective. Fresh appreciation perhaps for the things I do enjoy, be it something as simple as ice cream. I can fill my time with work and things I actually enjoy doing rather than berating myself about the fact I have no success at dating. Stepping back it just I need to realise I cant do the seemingly impossible all of the time. I had a good think about what I actually want out of dating, how far I would be prepared to compromise from my ideal and the conclusion really is I just need to accept what is at the moment until something better arrives.

[Ollie180]

9 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Either I can be bitter or I can do as one of the posters above is doing and simply just live...

What I am going to do, well just be me, enjoy the things I enjoy and well if I ever meet someone I like who enjoys them, then great,

It’s all any of us can do mate!! I promise you, even the folk who you think have got their lives together.. they have their own problems, insecurities, set backs.... they’re every bit as human! All any of us can do is just live, live the life you’ve been blessed with, and the ‘happiest’ folks won’t be the ones with the most, but the ones who can see the blessings in what they have!
 

(I also don’t think you should be afraid to go after what you want! To take a risk and push yourself outside your comfort zone, but only if they ARE things you really want, not just things your think you should what or something to cross off a checklist)

[serene53]

I am led to believe that there is fate after all. Like that verse goes " You can't hurry love." There were so many attractive men interested in me and even though they were attractive and had a lot to say for themselves I could not see myself dating them in the long run. For some of us it just takes longer to come across the right mate.

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, serene53 said:

I am led to believe that there is fate after all. Like that verse goes " You can't hurry love." There were so many attractive men interested in me and even though they were attractive and had a lot to say for themselves I could not see myself dating them in the long run. For some of us it just takes longer to come across the right mate.

But your situation is far different from ZA Dater, you have attractive men interested in you and you are choosing to reject them as you do not think the would make a good fit. 
ZA Dater on the other hand does not have the luxury of coming from that base.
A bit like taking a break from working, when you know your services will be in demand, as opposed to taking a break when you have no options and cannot find a job to save your life

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

But your situation is far different from ZA Dater, you have attractive men interested in you and you are choosing to reject them as you do not think the would make a good fit. 
ZA Dater on the other hand does not have the luxury of coming from that base.
A bit like taking a break from working, when you know your services will be in demand, as opposed to taking a break when you have no options and cannot find a job to save your life

Exactly true but I guess not everyone is the same. I just get the sense I have been running around on the field trying to catch a ball but either never finding it or when I do I drop it badly. What I have needed to understand is I cannot fix bad dates, there is nothing I can do after the fact, nothing I say can win someone around who doesn't find me attractive. That's very counter intuitive for me in a way.

If I take away all the "I am not this and I am not that" and really think how many of these dates I wanted to actually see again and spend time with its probably 2% at best and I guess that's just how it is for me which on the face of it makes me my own worst enemy. Could I have done things differently on the dates where I really did like the people, I don't think so really inherently they just didn't like the best version of me, that's the honest truth. I'd have liked another chance but it is what it is.

So yes, I am going to like myself more even of dates don't like me. I will try remove logic when it comes to dating but certain things I cant get away from or explain away so there I am at the mercy of the other person. Back in the early days I actually was just straight up about my issues with dating and granted I tended to use that as a way to ensure I was rejected by someone I didn't really like that much.

I just look around me and more and more it would seem I need to sell what I can offer rather than who I am and when that line of thinking arrives I do then sort of expect them to give me a good reason why I would want to spent time with them.

Am I being stupid excluding people who are interested in things I absolutely have no interest in such as trance parties?

[Weezy1973]

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Am I being stupid excluding people who are interested in things I absolutely have no interest in such as trance parties?

The answer is it depends. I wouldn’t exclude anybody for any particular one reason. That being said, it’s sometimes possible that there are correlated traits, so the type of person that loves trance parties might have a number of other characteristics that make them incompatible with you.

But - it’s also possible that someone that is compatible with you, also enjoys going to a trance party here and there. 
 

As a general rule, the fewer superficial dealbreakers you have, the better. Deeper characteristics (honesty, trustworthiness, empathy etc.) should still be coveted and dealbreakers when absent.

[serene53]

"But your  situation is different.."

I was only referring to the aspect of inefficiency. Ultimately, I didn't get the desired result via OLD. Being coveted by attractive men does not help as I cannot reciprocate the feeling. I met the most attractive and  interesting men in real life, albeit that did not work out either,  be it that they were in a relationship or did not feel attracted themselves.

Ebery so often I go back to OLD since I still find it difficult to accept that it is not happening for me. I have figured out for myself that there is so much worse than being alone and I am getting to terms with it. There is no knowing if I might  be better off this way. A partner can cause a lot of hurt. It is some sort of consolation.

[ZA Dater]

One of the changes I am going to make is have a look at transactional dating. Sure the stigma attached to it is huge but honestly why? Its not like anyone can say that dating actually works for everyone and everyone has the same apparently good experiences.

I had a brief foray into this about five years where I did take someone to two dinners on a transactional basis and overall it ranks as one of the better "dates" I have had. For once the person actually interested in asking me questions, even if the entire thing was fake it was far nicer than most dates.

Maybe I am more suited to this business like interaction. Over the past few days I have been looking at myself closely and I don't open up that much.

At the moment the options I seem to have

1: 38yo single mom, I feel very uncomfortable speaking with her, there is no common ground and I don't find her physically attractive

2: 38yo single mom, again there isn't much common ground and I don't find her that physically attractive

3: 40+ single mom who lives with her mom, of the three I probably "like" this one the most, she seems to think I am a person which I am really not so there is some degree of chasing involved here and I have been texting with her on and off but again I not seeing why I would want go further than friends, she is more attractive than the other two.

4: About 10 Tinder matches, none of which are of interest at all.

Then I look at the "transactional" route and suddenly I have a far better choice of people, vastly more attractive, mostly students looking for arrangements. Somewhere here I want to get some "experience" and more and more I am thinking it might just be best to do this is in a transactional way. Purely because I can see I might never ever meet anyone I like enough who actually likes me and even if I did I'd probably say the wrong thing or mess it up in some way or other. The thought of any of the above 1, 2, 3, just seems like total awkwardness to me and 4 isn't viable at all.

I mean sure I could go out and try charm that tall athletic yogi/model I see at the restaurant I normally each lunch while I stand in the q but realistically what are my chances there, pretty poor I would wager, ok by some miracle I get past that. Then what, I go to coffee, try chat, try connect and when it becomes apparent I am a loner/don't drink or don't whatever it will all fall apart. ONCE I tried to escalate things with a date I did like and it was just so unbelievably awkward and I got rejected I think because of that.

Just really thinking in text here.

 

[Weezy1973]

@ZA Dater the cycle continues. You speculate about “transactional dating” over and over again as well, and usually decide it’s not for you. And it’s not, because it won’t give you what you’re looking for, which is to be loved for who you are. 
 

It’s also possible that the date you had went so well because it was transactional. That is, there was no risk of rejection. You didn’t have to make yourself vulnerable so you were more relaxed.

 

 

[an0nym0us123]

Despite having other men beaten in numerous departments, i found out over time that i actually have no value whatsoever to women around my own age. I stated off fairly confident that i had a chance but that slowly died over time as i experienced more and more rejection. 

I am now planning my life ahead with the knowledge that i will be alone until the end. I dont feel lonely or depressed about that as i have lots going on in my life. I also know that having no kids and being in my financial position and barring any disasters i will stroll through life with very little problems. Basically all im doing is running down the clock till its over. So yes i do think you come to terms with it eventually   

[Cookiesandough]

8 hours ago, an0nym0us123 said:

Despite having other men beaten in numerous departments, i found out over time that i actually have no value whatsoever to women around my own age. I stated off fairly confident that i had a chance but that slowly died over time as i experienced more and more rejection. 

I am now planning my life ahead with the knowledge that i will be alone until the end. I dont feel lonely or depressed about that as i have lots going on in my life. I also know that having no kids and being in my financial position and barring any disasters i will stroll through life with very little problems. Basically all im doing is running down the clock till its over. So yes i do think you come to terms with it eventually   

Why do you think you’re struggling with attracting the women you want?

Edited June 6, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[Cookiesandough]

On 6/5/2020 at 9:50 AM, ZA Dater said:

One of the changes I am going to make is have a look at transactional dating. Sure the stigma attached to it is huge but honestly why? Its not like anyone can say that dating actually works for everyone and everyone has the same apparently good experiences.

I had a brief foray into this about five years where I did take someone to two dinners on a transactional basis and overall it ranks as one of the better "dates" I have had. For once the person actually interested in asking me questions, even if the entire thing was fake it was far nicer than most dates.

Maybe I am more suited to this business like interaction. Over the past few days I have been looking at myself closely and I don't open up that much.

At the moment the options I seem to have

1: 38yo single mom, I feel very uncomfortable speaking with her, there is no common ground and I don't find her physically attractive

2: 38yo single mom, again there isn't much common ground and I don't find her that physically attractive

3: 40+ single mom who lives with her mom, of the three I probably "like" this one the most, she seems to think I am a person which I am really not so there is some degree of chasing involved here and I have been texting with her on and off but again I not seeing why I would want go further than friends, she is more attractive than the other two.

4: About 10 Tinder matches, none of which are of interest at all.

Then I look at the "transactional" route and suddenly I have a far better choice of people, vastly more attractive, mostly students looking for arrangements. Somewhere here I want to get some "experience" and more and more I am thinking it might just be best to do this is in a transactional way. Purely because I can see I might never ever meet anyone I like enough who actually likes me and even if I did I'd probably say the wrong thing or mess it up in some way or other. The thought of any of the above 1, 2, 3, just seems like total awkwardness to me and 4 isn't viable at all.

I mean sure I could go out and try charm that tall athletic yogi/model I see at the restaurant I normally each lunch while I stand in the q but realistically what are my chances there, pretty poor I would wager, ok by some miracle I get past that. Then what, I go to coffee, try chat, try connect and when it becomes apparent I am a loner/don't drink or don't whatever it will all fall apart. ONCE I tried to escalate things with a date I did like and it was just so unbelievably awkward and I got rejected I think because of that.

Just really thinking in text here.

 

I agree you should if the stigma was the only thing bothering you about prostitutes and  mail order brides. But that’s not what you said. 
 

All dating is transactional, really....except instead of money, people are usually looking for other things you can add to their life. 

You complaining about your dating prospects is like someone complaining about how much they hate their job, makes them miserable, they wanna quit, over and over but they never do and they won’t go back to school and learn to do something they like. They just complain how much they hate it but won’t make changes. 

 

Which you’re totally allowed to do.. don’t get me wrong..

[an0nym0us123]

3 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

Why do you think you’re struggling with attracting the women you want?

Good question. I  have spent many an hour trying to answer this and i never could. 

I clearly dont have "it" whatever that is. You see some people who are always single and im one of them

[elaine567]

Is it the farm?
i.e. women do not want to end up working all day and night on it...

Edited June 6, 2020 by elaine567

[an0nym0us123]

Haha, i dont see how, i am not looking for a slave. Not looking for anyone to do anything. 

Its pretty scenic and the times i send photos to women before meeting they are pretty impressed. After meeting i get rejected.

 

 

[ZA Dater]

On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2020 at 10:19 AM, an0nym0us123 said:

Haha, i dont see how, i am not looking for a slave. Not looking for anyone to do anything. 

Its pretty scenic and the times i send photos to women before meeting they are pretty impressed. After meeting i get rejected.

 

 

I think the issue is that no matter what anyone actually does nobody will ever truly understand what attraction is and how dating works. As you say there is more to life and perhaps that's the lesson I am taking because in some weird way now that I am not chasing, trying to contrive an outcome what I actually like I feel more at peace as a person. Maybe I guess this inner peace is more a reflection of me looking around more and simply being at peace with other aspects of life, COVID 19 has made life incredibly tough because all around me things are crumbling, everyday I am trying to fix something but at the end of it I look back and there is a lot of good to look back on.

In many way maybe I have been luck to avoid what seem to be endless pitfalls with relationships, few people I know are truly happy and they tell me this, some are with their partner for reasons they themselves don't understand, other are being manipulated.

Do I really miss any of that, not really.

[chillii]

Well your right about that , l guess it's the few good ones we know that make us want this stuff hoping we'll be one of the better ones . But even then they're work , hell yeah. Of course you feel a peace and as l said way back at the start a good break is probably exactly what you need.

Btw , did you happen to chat with a certain lady here that had've that been a single me and it was me she was talking too l most certainly would've emailed her and at least talked a bit anddd , who knows, nope l can't mention names.