do you just eventually give up?

[ZA Dater]

Pre Covid I went on another site, more of an arrangement type site, purely because I wanted to see what it offered compared to something like Bumble or Tinder. What it does offer is far better looking people but again I suppose for them anyone will do so long as they can "reward" which again made me look at the other sites with new eyes. It was nice to chat to attractive, confident people who for better or worse actually had any idea of what they wanted, even if that did not tie in with that I wanted. It did once again make me question what women really want in men though.

Would I go down this route, not really because its a waste of money.

Tinder, Bumble, again some matches but really nothing remarkable, I will wear my superficial hat here and go so far as to say looks are important to me but so is conversation, a really good example of this is where there is no real common ground as there almost always is when it comes to these platforms.

My question is, do you ever get to a point where you simply go through the motions of dating without actually bothering to put any real effort into it, you have to do it because well we all hope to find someone great but realistically I know I am not going to find that person, friends and family put the pressure on so I have to be seen to be doing something.

Lock down has given me time to reflect on my dating life, reflect on my life as a whole and try understand where it went wrong from a dating point of view, what I can do to try fix it, are my wants reasonable and what I can realistically get. The reality for me is what I can get versus what I want is mile different and I don't think there is any real circumstance where I am prepared to sacrifice the want for what I can actually get because as with everything, I'd rather have nothing that something I don't want.

Something I haven't shared here before, all I really want is attention from someone I find attractive, that's all I really want, be it conversation be it anything really because for all I try to do the people I come across I just don't find attractive when measure against the people I have met and do find attractive.

How do you force yourself to like someone you don't? How do you force yourself to find that person attractive? How do you force yourself to find them interesting?

At the moment I am talking to a 37yo, divorced, 3 yo kid, she is ok, bit too open minded for my liking, most guys would love her, I am not so sure, not particularly taken with red heads., I have a 43-44yo two kids divorced, more attractive but again all the complications I don't want.

Honestly I am lost as to what I want to achieve here, companionship, sex, relationships, friendship or whatever. Deep down I want that 24-26yo motivated, no complications, someone to bring me out of my shell, really attractive but then I remember I am dour, quiet, uninteresting to most, not fun and it just seem I can never really ever have that. I just want to feel something I guess emotionally which I don't really feel with most dates.

Anyone else going through the motions of dating.

[Cookiesandough]

58 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Pre Covid I went on another site, more of an arrangement type site, purely because I wanted to see what it offered compared to something like Bumble or Tinder. What it does offer is far better looking people but again I suppose for them anyone will do so long as they can "reward" which again made me look at the other sites with new eyes. It was nice to chat to attractive, confident people who for better or worse actually had any idea of what they wanted, even if that did not tie in with that I wanted. It did once again make me question what women really want in men though.

Would I go down this route, not really because its a waste of money.

Tinder, Bumble, again some matches but really nothing remarkable, I will wear my superficial hat here and go so far as to say looks are important to me but so is conversation, a really good example of this is where there is no real common ground as there almost always is when it comes to these platforms.

My question is, do you ever get to a point where you simply go through the motions of dating without actually bothering to put any real effort into it, you have to do it because well we all hope to find someone great but realistically I know I am not going to find that person, friends and family put the pressure on so I have to be seen to be doing something.

Lock down has given me time to reflect on my dating life, reflect on my life as a whole and try understand where it went wrong from a dating point of view, what I can do to try fix it, are my wants reasonable and what I can realistically get. The reality for me is what I can get versus what I want is mile different and I don't think there is any real circumstance where I am prepared to sacrifice the want for what I can actually get because as with everything, I'd rather have nothing that something I don't want.

Something I haven't shared here before, all I really want is attention from someone I find attractive, that's all I really want, be it conversation be it anything really because for all I try to do the people I come across I just don't find attractive when measure against the people I have met and do find attractive.

How do you force yourself to like someone you don't? How do you force yourself to find that person attractive? How do you force yourself to find them interesting?

At the moment I am talking to a 37yo, divorced, 3 yo kid, she is ok, bit too open minded for my liking, most guys would love her, I am not so sure, not particularly taken with red heads., I have a 43-44yo two kids divorced, more attractive but again all the complications I don't want.

Honestly I am lost as to what I want to achieve here, companionship, sex, relationships, friendship or whatever. Deep down I want that 24-26yo motivated, no complications, someone to bring me out of my shell, really attractive but then I remember I am dour, quiet, uninteresting to most, not fun and it just seem I can never really ever have that. I just want to feel something I guess emotionally which I don't really feel with most dates.

Anyone else going through the motions of dating.

I don't understand why you wouldn't do the arrangement thing, tbh. From what I've read, you're mainly looking for the experience of dating someone conventionally attractive who can carry a conversation and bring you out of your shell,  not even real connection with another person or anything. Maybe I'm mixed up about this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The struggle with wanting what we don't have will always be, but I once read an interesting perspective on it. This person said that when you struggle with what you can't have/acheive, it's because deep down you know it is achievable, but you're not changing things to make it so. Maybe you can see yourself actualized into this person who can be what a woman you want would want, but you haven't tried to change to reach it. Just an idea. All you can do is keep searching and try to stay positive. Wishing you the best.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[snowcones]

57 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Anyone else going through the motions of dating.

I have a totally different story than yours but yes I was just going through the motions for a while, and then I realized it was futile and just stopped and gave up.  I'm guessing I'm older than you though since I have grown kids and a divorce, so it's a bit easier to give up and feel like I had my time already.

[simpycurious]

I am ANTI-give up in each and every aspect of life. Most people want INSTANT gratification in most anything they do.  They want to get stronger, leaner, more ripped so they start a workout routine and they don't see the results they want in a few weeks so they do what?  Give Up.  Love, dating, etc is no different.  ZA don't give up, don't give in to the frustration, just keep searching.

[Juha]

ZA, I don't know you but I can understand where you are at.  It seems you have tried all different things to meet someone and I am guessing nothing has changed.

Reading what you write is painful at times and can see this failure weighs on you and I assume makes you unhappy probably because you keep dwelling 

on this all the time and it will just bring you down if you stay on this path.

 

Some people just seem to have no luck when it comes to dating and relationships. 

Whether is is one thing or a combination of things.  Dating and relationships are difficult enough but when you add in that you 

need to have the right timing and luck to even meet someone that you fancy it can be a needle in a haystack for some

 

Giving up may make you feel better and happier.  I don't know, only you do.  

 

I wish you luck

[chillii]

Personally l'd be thinking it might do you good to walk away for awhile, just live and relax about things, cut yourself some slack.

Sometimes in life we chase our tail , at times like that it's better to just stop for awhile, and oddly enough sometimes, things even happen anyway when we do. 

[ZA Dater]

11 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

I don't understand why you wouldn't do the arrangement thing, tbh. From what I've read, you're mainly looking for the experience of dating someone conventionally attractive who can carry a conversation and bring you out of your shell,  not even real connection with another person or anything. Maybe I'm mixed up about this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The struggle with wanting what we don't have will always be, but I once read an interesting perspective on it. This person said that when you struggle with what you can't have/acheive, it's because deep down you know it is achievable, but you're not changing things to make it so. Maybe you can see yourself actualized into this person who can be what a woman you want would want, but you haven't tried to change to reach it. Just an idea. All you can do is keep searching and try to stay positive. Wishing you the best.

The transactional aspect of it puts me off a lot as does the fact I would have accomplished nothing going that route. I don't think real connections exist for me because I never ever really open myself up that far, sure I have a few times and metaphorically got kicked in the face for doing it, that's what really defines how I have dated, when I have opened up I get rejected very quickly. So for probably a long time I have just gone through the motions of sharing the bare minimum UNLESS I do really like the person but again the rejection hammer comes very quickly.

I'd probably agree with your second paragraph, its something I think about often, I have met people who really bring out a different side of me which is great but fundamentally there is no reason for them to actually date me. Put simply there are always better options for them than me. So a large part of my irritation with dating is that I am never one of those better options and wont ever be frankly judging by the attributes those better options seem to have. I often think what I could change and I am always left with the conclusion that I frankly don't know because I am happy being me. Maybe I am just over sugar coating how nice dating could be?

[ZA Dater]

11 hours ago, simpycurious said:

I am ANTI-give up in each and every aspect of life. Most people want INSTANT gratification in most anything they do.  They want to get stronger, leaner, more ripped so they start a workout routine and they don't see the results they want in a few weeks so they do what?  Give Up.  Love, dating, etc is no different.  ZA don't give up, don't give in to the frustration, just keep searching.

I agree with you, giving up is not something I do hence me going through the motions but honestly I am becoming more disinterested by the day because the choice is becoming worse and worse. For me I think what did probably hurt me as much as it benefitted me was someone I did spend some time with, purely because she used me in a way but she was great company and I did for probably the first time ever get some companionship, ultimately though she was chasing another guy...the complete opposite of me.

Also I don't really have any moves or charm or flirting ability so I struggle to show any sort of interest even if I am interested.

 

[Envy123]

Did you have some bad experiences with some conventionally attractive women, OP? As I have the same issue with unconventionally attractive women - was put on edge a lot, backstabbed and generally felt like crying when around certain women from that subset - and I can't feel confident around them. I am a stammering wreck because I fear that she will be unpredictable.

Whereas conventionally attractive women have mostly been respectful to me and I feel safe and comfortable with them, so it makes them comfortable too and romance does happen.

[basil67]

14 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

are my wants reasonable <snip>  not particularly taken with red heads.

ZA when it comes to wants being reasonable, I understand all of the things you've spoken of previously: wanting someone who's a healthy weight, someone who's got a pretty face and who's interests fit with you.  But to score someone's natural hair colouring as a negative is, IMO, a step too far.   It makes me think you're looking for a made to measure commodity rather than a person.

Not telling you what to do, but since you asked if your wants are reasonable, I will give my feedback.  

[elaine567]

28 minutes ago, basil67 said:

 It makes me think you're looking for a made to measure commodity rather than a person.

But that is what it has always been.
ZA has always been looking for the "needle in the haystack".
He really wants a fit, slim girl 23-26 preferably, but he is willing to go older nowadays.
Pretty.
IIRC a brunette.
She needs to be able to talk about politics and current events and "serious" stuff. 
ZA doesn't do small talk. 
She needs to be smart, not a fluffy airhead. 
He is looking for "class", a girl who speaks well, and has good manners .
No baggage, no kids. 
Someone who doesn't drink a lot.
I am guessing a non smoker too, but I could be wrong..
She also needs to be an extrovert - bubbly, interesting, someone  to take him out of his shell on all levels.
He is the dry, shy, reserved one, she is the warm, fuzzy, outgoing  one who will break down the social barriers for him.
Someone who will  impress all his friends/acquaintances/clients at parties, dinners and events. 
She will make him look better and be the key to him "fitting in" better generally.
 

[Fletch Lives]

23 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

a fit, slim girl 23-26 preferably, but he is willing to go older nowadays.
Pretty.
IIRC a brunette.
She needs to be able to talk about politics and current events and "serious" stuff. 
ZA doesn't do small talk. 
She needs to be smart, not a fluffy airhead. 
He is looking for "class", a girl who speaks well, and has good manners .
No baggage, no kids. 
Someone who doesn't drink a lot.
I am guessing a non smoker too, but I could be wrong..
She also needs to be an extrovert - bubbly, interesting, someone  to take him out of his shell on all levels.
He is the dry, shy, reserved one, she is the warm, fuzzy, outgoing  one who will break down the social barriers for him.
Someone who will  impress all his friends/acquaintances/clients at parties, dinners and events. 
She will make him look better and be the key to him "fitting in" better generally.

 - Can you give me her number?! 😄

[preraph]

That was a very interesting, Crunchy! I have a little trouble seeing Katharine Hepburn as one I have to say. I think that would be someone like Rose on two and a half men, Charlie's stalker who always shows up when he's down. 

 

It seems like someone who needs that kind of a person to draw them out is just looking for someone to be their personality. Therapy time.

[HiCrunchy]

5 minutes ago, preraph said:

That was a very interesting, Crunchy! I have a little trouble seeing Katharine Hepburn as one I have to say. I think that would be someone like Rose on two and a half men, Charlie's stalker who always shows up when he's down. 

 

It seems like someone who needs that kind of a person to draw them out is just looking for someone to be their personality. Therapy time.

Yep! its a common trope in romantic movies.

Sorry I made an edit on the comment above, since I thought it double posted.

My original comment that was meant to be a reply to Elaine

He is looking for a manic pixie dream girl:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manic_Pixie_Dream_Girl

 

[HiCrunchy]

8 minutes ago, preraph said:

That was a very interesting, Crunchy! I have a little trouble seeing Katharine Hepburn as one I have to say. I think that would be someone like Rose on two and a half men, Charlie's stalker who always shows up when he's down. 

 

It seems like someone who needs that kind of a person to draw them out is just looking for someone to be their personality. Therapy time.

I guess its like looking for that magical girl that can make you enjoy life and live it to the fullest. We have to do that internal work ourselves.

[preraph]

Yeah, it's The impossible dream girl Who somehow decides to take out the time to cheer up a grumpy old man. No better example of that than Marilyn Monroe. I think it our whole movie career she was only ever paired with an attractive man once and that was very later on. 

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, Envy123 said:

Did you have some bad experiences with some conventionally attractive women, OP? As I have the same issue with unconventionally attractive women - was put on edge a lot, backstabbed and generally felt like crying when around certain women from that subset - and I can't feel confident around them. I am a stammering wreck because I fear that she will be unpredictable.

Whereas conventionally attractive women have mostly been respectful to me and I feel safe and comfortable with them, so it makes them comfortable too and romance does happen.

I think my experience is mostly the same irrespective of attractiveness level. I wouldn't say many I have really gone out of their way to be overtly friendly but I suppose serious me deserves that sort of treatment.

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, elaine567 said:

But that is what it has always been.
ZA has always been looking for the "needle in the haystack".
He really wants a fit, slim girl 23-26 preferably, but he is willing to go older nowadays.
Pretty.
IIRC a brunette.
She needs to be able to talk about politics and current events and "serious" stuff. 
ZA doesn't do small talk. 
She needs to be smart, not a fluffy airhead. 
He is looking for "class", a girl who speaks well, and has good manners .
No baggage, no kids. 
Someone who doesn't drink a lot.
I am guessing a non smoker too, but I could be wrong..
She also needs to be an extrovert - bubbly, interesting, someone  to take him out of his shell on all levels.
He is the dry, shy, reserved one, she is the warm, fuzzy, outgoing  one who will break down the social barriers for him.
Someone who will  impress all his friends/acquaintances/clients at parties, dinners and events. 
She will make him look better and be the key to him "fitting in" better generally.
 

I admit you are good.

I have however come to the conclusion if it were actually possible to find decent friends I might be able to tick all those boxes with different people. Ok I am not being serious.

The reality is I need to find something that would actually make me desirable because until I do I will just fail every single time at dating. That's really the fundamental issue if you strip all the BS away, its got nothing to do with personality or whatever because there are worse examples around of all and they seem to find attractive dates because they have something people find attractive.

[Weezy1973]

First, people do indeed just give up on finding a partner / love. I know two personally - not sure if they’re happier for giving up though. 
 

Second @ZA Dater, it seems to me that finding a partner for you is about something other than love / companionship. I get the impression that you’re hoping for someone to make you feel worthy of being loved / accepted. If that’s the case, you’ll never succeed unfortunately, because nobody can do that for you.

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I have however come to the conclusion if it were actually possible to find decent friends I might be able to tick all those boxes with different people. Ok I am not being serious

That is actually what many people do, they have a gf, but they also have people they discuss serious stuff with, they have a few entertaining social butterflies for formal dinners and events, they have some people to do hobbies and sports with, they have other people for emotional support, they have some people to have fun with... 
That way their romantic interest doesn't need to tick every box.
They have a group of friends and a gf as opposed to a gf and no-one else.
 

[Envy123]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I think my experience is mostly the same irrespective of attractiveness level. I wouldn't say many I have really gone out of their way to be overtly friendly but I suppose serious me deserves that sort of treatment.

In that case, you must be treating women the same irrespective of attractiveness level.

If I am calm, collected and just treat women like friends without trying to flirt or push romance - they likely will show signs of interest and then I start flirting. Not before.

I tend to do that by default with conventionally attractive women, because I mostly had good experiences with them, as friends or lovers, so I feel comfortable with them. That makes them comfortable with me and romance likely happens. It's a cycle which I don't even think about. I just go with the flow.

Other women - I am confused on how to make them interested in me, for lack of a better term. I try various tactics and end up being heartbroken.

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

if you strip all the BS away, its got nothing to do with personality or whatever because there are worse examples around of all and they seem to find attractive dates because they have something people find attractive.

An attractive date lasts for a bit, but longevity comes from a matching personalities.   The fact that you may not find their personality desirable doesn't mean that another person won't click with them.  

Imagine two people who are party animals.  Or who aren't academic.   Their personalities may not work for you, but they will work well together.   

Edited April 21, 2020 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, elaine567 said:

That is actually what many people do, they have a gf, but they also have people they discuss serious stuff with, they have a few entertaining social butterflies for formal dinners and events, they have some people to do hobbies and sports with, they have other people for emotional support, they have some people to have fun with... 
That way their romantic interest doesn't need to tick every box.
They have a group of friends and a gf as opposed to a gf and no-one else.
 

I suppose that's one way of looking at it but that would mean the only reason one would need a gf is for someone to sleep with? Conversely I think the above makes me failure rate even worse really because by extension I am none of those things to anyone.

I think the other issue I have is I do see couples that get along well and I do tend to think "well that must be nice, she is intelligent, attractive, nice personality" and then I go out and try and find that and well never find it at all so I am often seeing what I do like but finding it impossible to replicate. Sure it would be easy to turn around and blame society but I cant take on society and win.

Fundamentally I have never done well at finding friends so if I had to blame one thing which prevents me from actually having more success at dating it would be that, I am simply pretty much in no man's land when it comes to connecting with people at all, which is why I keep going on about common interests because to me that's the only way I can connect with anyone. This mistake was one I made intentionally when I simply decided to be my own person, it would be true to say growing up everyone I think feels the need to be like so and so and do what so and so does and well everyone goes to that party so I must go to. I never really felt the need to do any of that stuff, so never connected ever really. The price paid for this is never being able to connect with anyone now either. Guy talk doesn't interest me because I simply cant relate and my entire point of view on dating is formed via observation and the many , many, many dates I have been on.

People say work on yourself, that's a good enough concept I agree with but its still nothing more than a shot in the dark if you cannot connect with people in any sort of way.

 

 

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, Envy123 said:

In that case, you must be treating women the same irrespective of attractiveness level.

If I am calm, collected and just treat women like friends without trying to flirt or push romance - they likely will show signs of interest and then I start flirting. Not before.

I tend to do that by default with conventionally attractive women, because I mostly had good experiences with them, as friends or lovers, so I feel comfortable with them. That makes them comfortable with me and romance likely happens. It's a cycle which I don't even think about. I just go with the flow.

Other women - I am confused on how to make them interested in me, for lack of a better term. I try various tactics and end up being heartbroken.

I don't bother anymore to be honest. Why would it, if she is remotely attractive she has endless options so I just become another "how can I use him or string him along while I chase another guy". The only people I have any chance at all with are ones which have a low market value in terms of society and what it deems to be attractive, whether that's right or wrong is neither here nor there. I am not going to make effort with those people for two reasons

1: They don't interest me

2: I don't want to get their hopes up and string them along.

My level of attractiveness is X and what I like is Y so there is never going to be any real chance unless I can find something that Y actually likes enough to bother giving me a chance.

[some_username1]

20 hours ago, Fletch Lives said:

 - Can you give me her number?! 😄

Plot twist: she doesn’t exist!

Honestly, I’ve had more dates from Tinder and the like than most have had hot dinners and I’ve never met a woman with even half of all those characteristics.

As an aside I’ve also found with interesting regularity that when I’ve opened up to a girl and used the word “class” to a girl as in “I think you are classy” or “I’m looking for someone classy” things go pear shaped immediately after. Might not be causal, but I can’t help but infer that a lot of women get turned off by that term, perhaps it sets too high a standard for their behaviour or something?

So as far as OP goes as I’ve often said he is better off just focusing on living a productive and interesting life. I know better than most that life isn’t some Weird Science-esque simulator where you can design your ideal partner and that dating (especially in the dating app era) is a futile endeavour if you go into it with a shopping list of requirements.