In a rough place - thoughts appreciated

[PhoenixRising8]

Even if you say this just to make a point why would I want to do that? That would be traumatic for everyone and sounds like a good way to get in a lot of trouble. I would rather the three of us sit down together and discuss - with BS free to ask or say anything she wants. Probably not realistic either but seems far more mature.

 

What you seem to not acknowledge is that the whole situation is traumatic, full stop. It is traumatic for BS who clearly has suspicions but he isn't admitting the truth when asked. Why would he? It would be too much conflict and discomfort for HIM. It's traumatic for you because you have anxiety over where this is going although deep down you know but won't accept it.

 

As for not getting into trouble well that ship has sailed. There will be trouble if she confirms her suspicions are true or if you tell her. And don't ever think his kindnesses aren't meant to placate you so that you don't tell.

 

As for sitting down as mature adults, not going to happen. What would be the point? What is there to discuss amongst the three of you? If he wanted to leave he would but he doesn't so he hasn't. Their marriage is theirs. Their separation is theirs to discuss amongst themselves. Doesn't involve you. You are merely the surrogate on the road.

 

I observe that you interpret things to suit your narrative because you want to believe the R isn't a lie, but that's it's foundation whether you admit that or not. You have no idea the world of hurt you are in for. Not only will you be grieving a loss you will also doubt yourself or worse. Wonder how you could have been duped so badly, how your judgement could have been so wrong, how you could have betrayed yourself and everything you believed in so badly. I'd love you to come back at some point and tell me I was wrong but I have NO doubt that will not be the case.

[BTDT2012]

Even if you say this just to make a point why would I want to do that? That would be traumatic for everyone and sounds like a good way to get in a lot of trouble. I would rather the three of us sit down together and discuss - with BS free to ask or say anything she wants. Probably not realistic either but seems far more mature.

 

 

A three way conversation serves no purpose for his wife unless it is for him to tell you in front of her that he is done with you.

[finna]

My “suggestion” to sit down with MM and BS was in response to someone telling me I should show up at her door and tell her everything. I’m quite sure she doesn’t want that either, although there are people here that would say she has a right and/or would want to know. Ultimately I don’t think it’s my place to tell her but if it ever came about that she wanted info from me I would be honest.

[heartwhole2]

You've said some things about BW recently . . . that you are flattered that MM traveled to see you for non-essential work stuff even though she would give him a "load of crap," and about the "mature thing" being a discussion where she could ask questions of her husband and her husband's mistress. You don't afford her the right to be upset about her husband doing non-essential travel that requires a whole day in an airplane, nor to deal with her marriage without a secret third party weighing in.

 

You are asking us to see the goodness in a man who is cheating on his wife and not giving his mistress any straight answers, but you cannot see the goodness in a BW who immediately confessed and expressed remorse about her ONS. I'm sure you understand why you are invested in her villainy; I hope you are doing more to increase your capacity for compassion for all humans, especially the one whose world you are conspiring to upend.

 

Right after my husband's affair, I had the thought that I could reach out to my high school boyfriend. He was single and had always maintained an emotional openness that I was sure could turn into an EA if I wanted it to. It would feel good to be wanted when I had been so summarily rejected, right? Do you know why I didn't? Not because I was particularly concerned about my husband's feelings at the moment, but because I wasn't going to offer potential EA partner a crappy, secret, dead-end relationship. I don't misuse others even if they're OK with it. And that's how I look myself in the mirror every day rather than hiding from who I am.

 

If your MM really cared about you, he would stop offering you the role of secret side chick because he knows you want and deserve better. And if you really cared about MM, you would help him achieve his goal of working on his family and seeing if he can make his marriage work by bowing out. Neither of you is being caring because you are addicted to the cocktail of love hormones and it's too hard to face who you really are and what you're really doing.

[PhoenixRising8]

 

At some point if MM is not worth my time or efforts it is going to be tough and painful to completely move on. I have been trying to take the mindset that it is already over - at least for the foreseeable future - but that has been very difficult to get to, even with LC and him being on holiday and focusing on the family. I can only take it day by day and make the best decisions I can with the information that I have.

 

Delete the "if" - he isn't worth it but we've all been telling you this over 75+ pages but you don't believe it.

 

You have the mindset it's already over but that last little bit shows hope. In this case, hope is a dangerous thing ... to you.

[finna]

Ultimately I want all of us to come out of this experience where we are happy and in loving healthy relationships. Maybe that will be MM and BS living happily ever after. Maybe none of us end up together.

 

As BS is 10+ years younger than I am, I wouldn’t be surprised if she eventually gets a load of confidence and decides to get rid of MM. The way she behaves is similar to how I would have responded to situations with exH ten years ago and will not do now. I don’t say that to look for benefit for me- by the time it happens if ever I will likely have long moved on.

[finna]

LKK - I don’t disagree. I do have hope... it’s not something I can just turn off.

 

It’s hard to know what to think - even in 75 pages of comments there are conflicting opinions and advice as is natural... everything from MM is done with you - get out, to predictions that he wants to return to the status quo; to he has feelings for you, to he is selfish and only cares about what’s in it for him, etc. maybe at some level all and none of these things are true.

 

I know ultimately I need to do what is right for me, and I’m not sure exactly what that is as far as decisions and next steps.

[Orokotikki]

'Not your place to tell her', but it is your place to undermine any chance she might have in working on things (or even just improving - or even just living and enjoying her M) with him (independent of the A) by inserting yourself in his life and drawing him away from his family (as much or as little as that may be).

 

110% delusional and disingenuous to think the 3 of you could "talk it out" and be honest. He wouldn't need to there for you to be honest with her. You couldn't go through with it even if it was possible because 80% chance he'd just say "She's lying she's crazy (etc etc)". disingenuous on the notion 'I'd tell her if she asked me'

 

'I'm trying to steal her husband, I'm honest and good inside though, I'd tell her if she asked.'

 

ROFLMAO if not so sad.

 

You really SHOULD tell her. It would be your best chance to end up with him.

Sure he might be a sad sack if they get divorced, but once everyone knows no one would want him anyway except you. And his wife can remarry someone who honors marriage. its a Win-Win-Karma.

[elaine567]

I don't really get the mentality that seems prevalent in OWs.

OWs seem to take rejection in a strange way.

 

Rejection does not elicit "Fine, I am out of here, if you don't want me, do not bother contacting me again, I am done, end of."

 

It elicits " Oh dear, I will wait for you to pick me up again when you feel like it, I love you..."

[BaileyB]

I take responsibility for my part of the relationship. I feel that I have done what I can to eliminate any duplicity or deception for the relationships I can control.

 

We will have to agree to disagree. For, I still say, if you were behaving in a mature, respectful, and responsible way you would make a different decision - to respect this marriage and stop sleeping with this woman’s husband.

 

Of course, he is responsible for his decisions. But at the end of the day, so too are you responsible for your own decisions. And, you are making a selfish and irresponsible decision here... full stop.

[Beentheretoooften]

OP is holding out hope that the 2-5% of MM that leave, he will be one of those. Hail Mary as they say. But sometimes that hope is enough. I know everyone is being honest with her, but it seems both she and mm are taking more than 50% of the blame. Totals over 100. He’s selfish and she doesn’t know what she’s doing. OP, I know it’s a struggle and feels good. I know that feeling. It’s incredible. At least enjoy it now while you can. I know thats awful to say, too bad there wasn’t easy answers to all this. I truly feel for you.

[Amethyst68]

You know I actually believe it may have been a once and done at the beginning of not for the OP going home and immediately divorcing her BH. In the 50/50 coin toss of sheer fear or powerful aphrodisiac for MM it obviously went the latter. There's been a lack of accountability here since the first post, all blame being put on OP. That's ridiculous, OW manipulate the addition just as much, in different ways, make the MM feel young, useful, protective etc, make them feel a hero again.

 

Btw I've still been trying to figure out how this Shangri-la future you've described would worked but I just can't do it. If you work in your parenting schedule, your MM's future parenting schedule, if they'll even be similar, the fact that MM if often at your city for work. I imagine you'll want him to spend time with him, his son will be in school, not able to travel and the obvious loser. This was a common sense scenario, not biased but based on the fact you live 5000 miles away from each other.

[S2B]

1. No doubt - I do believe he is a very good man... he has made some bad decisions certainly.

2. I am actually quite a happy person. There are times I do experience loneliness of course but I would say most of the time I have a fulfilling life experience.My issue is that I know I can be happy without MM, but at this point I’d rather be happy with him because of the synergy... it is the difference between happy contentment and incredible joy.

3. I take responsibility for my part of the relationship. I feel that I have done what I can to eliminate any duplicity or deception for the relationships I can control- exH, friends, family, etc.

The choice for MM to take similar action is just that - his choice. I expect him to own it as well as deal with the consequences for his relationships. I know this will not necessarily be a popular approach here, but beyond me encouraging him to be truthful and go legit - it is ultimately his decision and I then have to make my decisions accordingly.

 

This really isn’t about him.

 

It’s only about how you participate.

 

You can’t control him. You can control yourself.

 

You are responsible for how you participate - yes...and you made a choice to insert yourself into someone else’s marriage.

 

AND you can also decide to never participate in that arena again.

Edited July 3, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Tristian]

Second clean-up. Almost 30 posts deleted so perhaps some ground rules are in order.

 

1. This is the OM/OW forum, it should come as no surprise what is discussed here. If you have a moral or ethical aversion to this topic your best recourse is to move on to another section of LS. OPs here are already well aware of the dynamic of their relationships. Continuing to beat that dead horse will result in a vacation from Loveshack, length dependent on your history with moderation but opening bid will be a week.

 

2. Civility and Respect guidelines are in full effect here and will be fiercely enforced. The OP has been very patient with some of the harsh criticism that has been posted here. From this point forward I have no intention of being as patient so keep that in mind when formulating your replies. OP, liberal use of the ALERT button is strongly encouraged.

 

3. This applies to the OM/OW forum as a whole, not just this thread so think long and hard before you hit that submit button.

 

Subscribed.

[SpiceCat]

Ultimately I want all of us to come out of this experience where we are happy and in loving healthy relationships. Maybe that will be MM and BS living happily ever after. Maybe none of us end up together......

 

You say this ever so casually but there have been plenty of hints in your posts that you are WAY more emotionally invested than you're willing to openly admit. Are you trying to hide that from us, or from yourself?

Edited July 3, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[PhoenixRising8]

...It’s hard to know what to think - even in 75 pages of comments there are conflicting opinions and advice as is natural... everything from MM is done with you - get out, to predictions that he wants to return to the status quo; to he has feelings for you, to he is selfish and only cares about what’s in it for him, etc. maybe at some level all and none of these things are true.

 

I'm not sure that the comments made here are conflicting at all. He is done with you as far as being 'the girlfriend' he is making future plans with and you are well into the territory of strictly the OW. I don't think I've seen anyone say it will go back to what it was 2 months ago. I'm sure he does have feelings for you, and many have stated exactly this, but whatever those feelings are, they most likely are not enough for him to want to make a major life change for you.

 

But selfish he is and i don't think anyone will tell you otherwise. He is keeping you engaged with just enough hope that he gets to keep you as his surrogate wife with all its benefits while you are travelling. Because he enjoys the fun on the road. It suits him. Were he not selfish, he would say to you 'I thought I could make us legitimate but I can't. I am committed to focusing on my marriage. This is not fair to any of the three of us so it's in everyone's best interest, especially yours, if we keep this professional from now on.' That would be unselfish because he would be giving up something he wants because he knows it's wrong and hurtful but he has enough integrity and respects you and his wife enough to do the right thing.

 

As I said, and you acknowledge, you have hope and that hope will keep you hanging in there until you finally realize that this is an affair and not a life long relationship. Then all the recriminations and pain start in earnest. I know this because I am living it right now.

Edited July 3, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[finna]

You say this ever so casually but there have been plenty of hints in your posts that you are WAY more emotionally invested than you're willing to openly admit. Are you trying to hide that from us, or from yourself?

 

Hmmm... I thought I was being quite transparent with my emotional investment. To recap for clarity: I love this guy, I’m in love with this guy, and I was ready to build a life with him when our paths seemed aligned. And yes, were our paths to be aligned again I would still at least strongly consider a serious commitment.

[finna]

 

Were he not selfish, he would say to you 'I thought I could make us legitimate but I can't. I am committed to focusing on my marriage. This is not fair to any of the three of us so it's in everyone's best interest, especially yours, if we keep this professional from now on.' That would be unselfish because he would be giving up something he wants because he knows it's wrong and hurtful but he has enough integrity and respects you and his wife enough to do the right thing.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if some version of that conversation happens in the next ten days- before we are supposed to take a non-business trip together. It was completely his idea three weeks ago and we booked plane tickets and hotels accordingly but he hasn’t mentioned it in the last ten days or so. Not sure if that is solely because he has been focused on family on their holiday or if he is pulling back further. He’s never been on holiday with them for so long since I’ve known him, so not sure what to expect. I wouldn’t be surprised either way.

[darkbloom]

I’ve been in an off again/ on again OW situation for 3 years. I’ve wasted 3 years of my life on someone who promises that he will leave his wife if I say the word. He’s never once given me the truth that he intends to focus on his marriage- he always says I’m the priority and he loves me and [insert all kinds of mushy garbage here, here, and here] on that same beat [insert photos of he and his wife on vacation for three weeks in Italy here, here, here, here, here and here] (she posts a lot of photos).

 

My point is, you’ve been given a golden nugget of truth from him. I have no doubt he cares for you, loves you, and wants you in his life. That is not up for debate. But he’s selfish and cowardly and all 80 pages of this thread prove it. MM are capable of being good men but selfish men. I know the hope is hard to let go of but if it’s truly meant to be he will come back to you. He has given you an answer for his intentions. Please focus on yourself and let him focus on his marriage. You will save yourself so much wasted time and heartache. No one deserves to hurt this much over another person.

[PhoenixRising8]

Did I understand correctly that you booked a non-business trip AFTER he told you he was going to focus on the family? How is he explaining a non-business trip to BS?

[finna]

Did I understand correctly that you booked a non-business trip AFTER he told you he was going to focus on the family? How is he explaining a non-business trip to BS?

 

Haha - yes... it’s not really funny- I’m just stressed out and the tone I was imagining you asking the question made me giggle a bit - so thanks for the smile.

 

Here’s the overview. He and family arrived in my city today for the remainder of their holiday... he will mostly be working in the office but they have a tradition of coming for a few weeks every summer to this area. They (BS and son) fly home next Friday (ten days from now) from a city that is about a five hour drive away - he will drive them there next Thursday and they will sightsee for a day.

 

When I was with him last, MM suggested that I fly down after they had departed and we would drive back together and take the scenic route. He even offered to use his travel points for my ticket (I used my own points). He asked me which hotels I want to stay at and booked those - one for sure as non refundable.

 

As we were doing the planning he got the idea to travel to an additional destination to meet with a business consultant the following Monday that he had wanted to spend some face time with for a while for business purposes (I also have a legit business need to meet with the team). So we will road trip to that city, and then drive back to my city after the Monday meetings.

 

Additionally our colleague and good friend will fly in Sunday night and back Monday night to also attend the meetings. So MM has the business piece that will likely be his explanation to BS... he probably won’t have to even mention that I am there for the Monday meetings.

 

However, like I said he has not mentioned the trip in the last ten days- so while it seems all is booked and happening since he has been fairly platonic with his texting over the last week I am not sure where his head is at and if it will actually happen.

Edited July 3, 2019 by asaysno
additional info

[BaileyB]

I’ve been in an off again/ on again OW situation for 3 years. I’ve wasted 3 years of my life on someone who promises that he will leave his wife if I say the word. He’s never once given me the truth that he intends to focus on his marriage- he always says I’m the priority and he loves me and [insert all kinds of mushy garbage here, here, and here] on that same beat [insert photos of he and his wife on vacation for three weeks in Italy here, here, here, here, here and here].

 

His lack of “truth” is his truth.

[finna]

Well, I was getting ready to respond to the comment you just deleted... I will anyway because it is part of my truth right now... I would be lying if I said I didn’t miss him and very much want to spend time with him... we have a fantastic time when we are together.

 

If I think about it further, yes, it probably does give me hope that after “breaking things off” he wants to intentionally spend time together that is not just happenstance because of work. I may crash and burn if he does not go through with it or runs cold afterwards- but for now I am looking forward to the possibilities.

[BaileyB]

If I think about it further, yes, it probably does give me hope that after “breaking things off” he wants to intentionally spend time together that is not just happenstance because of work. I may crash and burn if he does not go through with it or runs cold afterwards- but for now I am looking forward to the possibilities.

 

It’s hard to imagine how both of you don’t lose your job if this affair is ever discovered.

 

I really shouldn’t read these posts because I find it upsetting to see another person intentionally put herself in a position where she is most definitely going to be hurt. Not sure what else to say... Your intention is quite clear, there is nothing that can be said to prove you otherwise.

Edited July 3, 2019 by BaileyB

[PhoenixRising8]

If I think about it further, yes, it probably does give me hope that after “breaking things off” he wants to intentionally spend time together that is not just happenstance because of work. I may crash and burn if he does not go through with it or runs cold afterwards- but for now I am looking forward to the possibilities.

 

He explicitly broke things off with you as the girlfriend he was planning a future with when he told you he intended to focus on his marriage. He implicitly told you he was prepared to continue with an affair. Those two options are not mutually exclusive. If you have hope the affair will continue, I doubt you'll be disappointed. If your hope revolves around him ultimately ending up with you, and leaving his wife, I suspect heartbreak is inevitable.