Author finna Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 As for your former BS and M, I'm getting the sense of a supportive person and you obviously loved him once. What was it about him and the M (other than the euphoria of a new romance) that made the M irretrievably broken? Have you asked yourself this question? What is it about MM, a proven liar, cheater and conflict avoider that is better other than the excitement of the new and illicit? The passion, excitement and butterflies eventually wane. It isn't sustainable and it won't be sustained with MM either if you are 'lucky enough' to land him. Wasn't it romantic with BS in the beginning? When it becomes everyday life, the lustre will wear off. To be honest it was never particularly romantic with my exH. We met when we were in our very early 20s and he was a bit of a rebound from my only other “serious” relationship with someone who I was very much in love with. ExH and I were always good friends and I have always loved him in that way, but I’ve never been in love with him. We dated for five years with some rocky periods that probably should have been big red flags then but we were both young and dumb. We were together and did have a lot of fun for a total of 12 years before we had our son. After that there began to be some major issues and we realized we had become different people who couldn’t meet each others’ needs in a way that would be a satisfying healthy marriage. I had been thinking about splitting for six years before MM came into the picture as a travel companion and friend. The way that MM took care of me as a friend made me realize what I wanted and had been missing in my marriage - and yes, it was things that I had discussed repeatedly over the years with my exH and he acknowledged he could not provide. People here keep telling me that I need to take time to figure out what I want and need in a relationship- in actuality I have spent the last six years or more doing just that. Yes, it’s unfortunate that it had to be someone unavailable who did meet those needs, but I will always be grateful for the clarity the situation provided that allowed me to confidently make my exit. The split from exH was about as amicable as it gets... of course we both have been sad about it, but we communicate and support each other as friends and co-parents so much better with not being married. So to fully answer the question - there was no real luster with exH and what MM does for me I had been missing for a very long time. In some ways I think it would take again a very long time (if ever) for me to stop appreciating how fulfilled I feel in specific ways by MM - the way that he cares for and takes care of me for things that in the past I always had to manage by myself has been awesome. I have been very grateful for that experience, which of course makes it difficult to give up. Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 Lots of great points in LKKs last post here. I too think examining the questions she poses about your xH and M will shed light on your foray into this abyss. I posted a response to LKK- would love your thoughts on what I said as well as it may not be quite what was expected. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Just because you had an unfulfilling marriage doesn’t mean your MM has an unfulfilling M. In fact, he’s been clear he intends to be more invested in his marriage because he values it. That usually means he wants to focus time and energy on his wife and home life. That also means time and energy is less for the OW. Are you prepare to continue expecting less and less from him? Link to post Share on other sites
sagamore Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 I posted a response to LKK- would love your thoughts on what I said as well as it may not be quite what was expected. You certainly answered the parts of her question that were flattering to MM... A, you’re in deep. You’re in so deep you can’t see straight. You think this guy is a caretaker. That he’s been selfless and generous. I could tell you why that’s not the case, but you’re not ready to hear it. So when do you see him next? What’s the communication been like? And what questions do you plan to ask him next time you are together? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) You certainly answered the parts of her question that were flattering to MM... LKK asked me about my relationship with exH- I answered truthfully with as much insight as I can to briefly describe a 20+ year relationship in a few sentences. And yes, of course I’m in deep... my time with MM has been transformational in many positive ways - yes, the current situation is often painful for me, but for many months I had much joy and was able to finally focus on myself and my needs after years of feeling unfulfilled. I may see him at work next week- we are supposed to spend time together in a couple of weeks. I want to ask him to tell me everything. Are you prepare to continue expecting less and less from him? I am not willing to expect less. What I get from him may be less, in which case I need to decide what is not enough. Edited July 1, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Merge posts and truncate quotes Link to post Share on other sites
HadMeOverABarrel Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Asaysno, my initial thought was, "You realize thay MM is not the only man on the planet who can make you feel that way, right?" More later when I have more time. Link to post Share on other sites
BTDT2012 Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 I had been thinking about splitting for six years before MM came into the picture as a travel companion and friend. The way that MM took care of me as a friend made me realize what I wanted and had been missing in my marriage - and yes, it was things that I had discussed repeatedly over the years with my exH and he acknowledged he could not provide. It's time for you to learn to be alone, and content with yourself. Based on what you have written, your BS was a rebound relationship, and you were only willing to leave the marriage until a replacement was lined up. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 It's time for you to learn to be alone, and content with yourself. I would agree. You say you don’t want a serious relationship... Well then, don’t be in a relationship. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 It's time for you to learn to be alone, and content with yourself. Based on what you have written, your BS was a rebound relationship, and you were only willing to leave the marriage until a replacement was lined up. Yep- a rebound that I stuck out at least in name for 21 years. (For anyone that has not read my whole story- I separated from my exH within hours of the first thing that happened with MM - exH and I had discussed separating a few weeks before that as well, and I’m not proud of the fact that I didn’t do it then, but I made it as “right” as I could with exH as soon as I got off the 15 hour flight.) The truth of the matter is that I don’t really want to be alone... I feel like I’ve been alone for most of the past two years if not longer prior to my relationship with MM. Yes it’s a strange place to be - but if I’m really honest with myself the reason I don’t want to be alone or ready for a different committed relationship is because I want to be with MM... which of course may be impossible, so it’s a matter of working through that in order to be in a healthy place to eventually be ready for a different relationship. So in essence we all may be saying the same thing... Link to post Share on other sites
Zona Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 how fulfilled I feel in specific ways by MM - the way that he cares for and takes care of me for things that in the past I always had to manage by myself has been awesome. I have been very grateful for that experience, which of course makes it difficult to give up. OK, I'm going to post something that probably everyone else is thinking but doesn't want to say outright. It could very well be all fake on his part, as a way to get you hooked in and get you into bed. Since he is a proven liar (by cheating on his wife and covering it up), what makes you think he isn't deceiving you too on some level? Limerence has a way of making you see only the good in a person or situation. That will take some time to dissipate. Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Looks like you need to be on your own for a good long while to figure out how to love yourself. Using men to provide you with the love you should be giving to yourself isn’t the answer. Be fair to your exH... you’re using him as a crutch too... he doesn’t need to be supportive of you affair with a MM. the fact that he is seems EXTREMELY odd and unhealthy. Stand on your own! Be strong and do what’s right! That would be a good example for your child! If you can’t then seek professional guidance - not a MM and an exH for that support. Give your exH room to find a new lover. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 The truth of the matter is that I don’t really want to be alone... I feel like I’ve been alone for most of the past two years if not longer prior to my relationship with MM.. You may have felt alone, but you weren’t actually alone. You still had a partner, and you are still close with that partner in that you talk often and offer each other emotional support. You have also monkey branched - within a matter of hours - from one man to another... one “rebound” to another... And now, when your MM is busy with his wife and you are left alone with your thoughts and emotional, you are lonely, depressed, and not coping well. You are not capable of being alone. My friend, you know what I’m about to say... your happiness will not be found in another relationship, with another man. And, although MM may seem safe to you - all the good feelings of a relationship with none of the commitment, sacrifice, or risk... I will say it again. There are plenty of single men out there looking for casual relationships. This man is married, an inconvenient truth for you. Still... You do not have the right to use another woman’s husband to soothe your soul... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 If you don’t learn how to be happy all on your own - you will likely always make choices in partners that are unhealthy just to avoid being alone. Being alone does not need to equate to feeling lonely...at the same time being with someone doesn’t equate to being happy. That’s why it’s important for you to learn about yourself...until you can be happy on your own. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 If you don’t learn how to be happy all on your own - you will likely always make choices in partners that are unhealthy just to avoid being alone. Being alone does not need to equate to feeling lonely...at the same time being with someone doesn’t equate to being happy. That’s why it’s important for you to learn about yourself...until you can be happy on your own. Amen! Well said. Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) OK, I'm going to post something that probably everyone else is thinking but doesn't want to say outright. It could very well be all fake on his part, as a way to get you hooked in and get you into bed. Since he is a proven liar (by cheating on his wife and covering it up), what makes you think he isn't deceiving you too on some level? Limerence has a way of making you see only the good in a person or situation. That will take some time to dissipate. It could be... but I am thinking more about his actions when he is with me. While he could have an ulterior motive, he had done many kind and caring things when we are together that my exH never did for me - hence the feelings of fulfillment. Looks like you need to be on your own for a good long while to figure out how to love yourself. Using men to provide you with the love you should be giving to yourself isn’t the answer. Be fair to your exH... you’re using him as a crutch too... he doesn’t need to be supportive of you affair with a MM. the fact that he is seems EXTREMELY odd and unhealthy. Stand on your own! Be strong and do what’s right! That would be a good example for your child! If you can’t then seek professional guidance - not a MM and an exH for that support. Give your exH room to find a new lover. exH has a nice girlfriend - he is well taken care of in that regard and gets plenty of space and support from me. As far as his support of me - he wants me to be happy... he may not agree with the overall situation but he talks about how I light up when I’ve had time with MM... he wants things to work out so that I can be my happiest self to be and we can all move forward in life. You may have felt alone, but you weren’t actually alone. You still had a partner, and you are still close with that partner in that you talk often and offer each other emotional support. You have also monkey branched - within a matter of hours - from one man to another... one “rebound” to another... I’m going to disagree with this - for the last couple of years my exH and I did not talk often or offer each other emotional support. We are in a far better place in that regard not being married with the common goal of raising our son. MM may seem like a rebound chronologically but to me he has been a breath of fresh air and new life after a long time alone. Edited July 1, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 I just gotta say something... when I post things to help YOU think of different perspectives to consider for YOUR growth- you seem to shoot them down and defend. How can you learn to grow/change with that approach? Why do we need to keep trying to make suggestions that may help you if all you intend to do is dismiss suggestions that should have you looking inward for introspection? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Have you set a boundary yet for yourself? What does that boundary look like? Be specific. Link to post Share on other sites
SpiceCat Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 I just gotta say something... when I post things to help YOU think of different perspectives to consider for YOUR growth- you seem to shoot them down and defend. How can you learn to grow/change with that approach? Why do we need to keep trying to make suggestions that may help you if all you intend to do is dismiss suggestions that should have you looking inward for introspection? Good post - I truly believe it's because she is currently so shrouded in the affair fog that she is unaware, or (more likely) unwilling to confront the pain that she will cause herself, her child, his child, and his family by continuing on with this. Once the fog clears I think she will feel it strongly, as she doesn't strike me as a bad person, just a person who's currently making bad choices. It's not easy to confront your demons. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sagamore Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 All those “kind and caring things”... I just cannot. You don’t get it. Those things were for HIM. It filled a need in HIM to be your knight in shining armor in those stolen, “spare” moments away from his family. It made HIM feel good. That’s why he did it. Your love, your adoration and appreciation - those emotions made HIM feel a certain way and so he sought them. It’s not about you. It’s never been about you. If it wasn’t you, it would have been whatever attractive, lonely, appreciative, adoring woman was in your place at the company. Want to see if he’s REALLY your caretaker? Ask him to do something that comes at a cost to him...or his wife. Something where he has to sacrifice HIS wants and needs. Something that doesn’t bring him pleasure, or makes him uneasy. You’ll see then what his “love” really means. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Daisy2013 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) ...Want to see if he’s REALLY your caretaker? Ask him to do something that comes at a cost to him...or his wife. Something where he has to sacrifice HIS wants and needs. Something that doesn’t bring him pleasure, or makes him uneasy. You’ll see then what his “love” really means. This right here. OP, I thought my MM loved me because he said he did, and he showed it in his way. But in no way would he do a thing that caused him any discomfort or inconvenience. Or any confrontation on the home front. They love us in their way, not in a way that is real and matters. Edited July 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 2 Link to post Share on other sites
HadMeOverABarrel Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 I second (or third?) sagamore's last post. Test him. Find out what he is made of and what sacrifice he will personally expend, from his own efforts, that has a real cost to him. Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) All those “kind and caring things”... I just cannot. You don’t get it. Those things were for HIM. It filled a need in HIM to be your knight in shining armor in those stolen, “spare” moments away from his family. It made HIM feel good...... There have been quite a few instances when he has done something for me that was out of his comfort zone and potentially at a cost as well. A good example that doesn’t give TMI (this one did not cost per se but other times have) was when we were both on a 12+ hour international flight. He got upgraded to a comfortable business class seat that reclined to a bed. I did not and was in the worst part of cramped economy - he gave up his seat to spend that time sitting next to me. I slept nearly the whole time with my head on his chest and he sat there without complaint although I know he was physically very uncomfortable. I wasn’t feeling well and probably snotted all over his shirt while sleeping. He held me the whole flight and took care of me as best as possible on a plane. Edited July 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Link to post Share on other sites
Author finna Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 I second (or third?) sagamore's last post. Test him. Find out what he is made of and what sacrifice he will personally expend, from his own efforts, that has a real cost to him. More examples... there have been at least two or three instances when it would have been easiest for him to work from home and not get a major load of crap from BS for traveling, as well as more convenient for him for the actual work he needed to do (per my prior post(s) his work role is a major part of his identity). At my request he traveled to where I was at for various reasons- once because I needed his help with a work-related project, another time because he wanted to make sure I had a positive experience with a new location with which he was very familiar, and another time when I asked him to spend a day with me in a city I’d never been to for site-seeing purposes... he ended up busting his butt and put aside other projects plus worked all weekend to get enough done that he felt he could take a Monday off to be with me. These things were all at major cost to him in terms of his time, risk, juggling priorities, etc., and I was grateful each time he made it happen as there was no real benefit to him... he did these things for me. Link to post Share on other sites
HadMeOverABarrel Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Also, I think the suggestions here regarding self-reflection is the salve you are looking for. One of the best antidotes to obsessing over another person is to put all that focus, energy, attention back oourselves. It will at the least distract you and give your mind and emotions a much needed break. This is where you treat thinking about MM as an addiction. Seriously, even read up on the biological and neurological responses your brain is going through in the cycle of desire and longing. Your brain is craving that hit of dopamine etc you get when you experience pleasant memories with MM, followed by stress hormones when you realize he's with his wife and not you. Imagine you have a substance addiction (and technically you do because the brain releases opioid hormones with similar chemical make-up to opioid pharmaceuticals...opiods reduce pain and I believe react with the pleasure center of the brain to reward us for survival...love, food, etc.) If we are lucky, someone with a professional background in this will chime in, but you can do your own research. When you are trying to give up a substance addiction, every time you crave that substance you have to redirect your thoughts. One good substitute thought is focusing on the benefits of giving up the substance. Making a list of how you would benefit by NOT having MM in your life may be useful. Also, this helps redirect your thoughts on where they should be, which is on yourself and what you CAN control. Now you are vigilantly focused on what you CAN'T control, and that is simply maddening. So, in short, every time you begin to think of MM, push that thought aside and focus on all the benefits you will get by extricating yourself from this situation. Then you'll give your brain less opportunity to 'intoxicate' you. After several weeks of 'withdrawal,' you'll begin to breathe easier and feel relief. More and more relief will cone as time passes. You have to cut off your contact with your "drug" though. It is the ONLY way. Nobody gets healthy and free from an addiction by dabbling with it. Your biochemistry has literally addicted you to MM. You are an intelligent woman, so please don't take my word for it. Do your own independent research. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HadMeOverABarrel Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) There have been quite a few instances when he has done something for me that was out of his comfort zone and potentially at a cost as well. What has he done for you lately since, he gave you the "I'm working on my family" talk? Edited July 2, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator language; truncate quote ~W 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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