Complete waste of time.

[ZA Dater]

[quote=littleblackheart;7793839

You can't get frustrated at people for wanting the same thing as you, ie a compatible partner.

I don't want a compatible partner because I don't believe such a person exists. I simply want someone nice I like to have some sort of interest in me, go on a few dates, if she doesn't like me then so be it. I cant get experience if I cant find this middle road. Sure people expect a 35yo to have experience but what if he doesn't? Then what?

 

A good example was the yoga lady, I could just be me and I'd like to think she had a good time with me judging by how much time she did spend with me (or she enjoyed free lunches), being nice wasn't enough here, being positive wasn't enough here, opening up wasn't enough here. Ultimately I lost out to the experienced guy. I enjoyed spending time with her which is rare for me.

 

Most of these coffee dates (I drink hot chocolate and not water in case some were wondering) I don't really enjoy as there is no connection at all and I don't find these people particularly interesting. Maybe this part of my life is cursed and maybe better lived vicariously through the good experiences of others.

Edited May 21, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[MaleIntuition]

This girl didn’t care about your lack of experience: It was in your profile.

 

Her attitude changed AFTER you had met. That means your awkwardness or demeanour was the issue for her.

[preraph]

Any first year psychology student knows that your "If they don't do this or that, I don't want them anyway" is your own defensiveness rejecting people before they have a chance to reject you.

 

You have no experience, so Tinder isn't for you. It's about sex.

 

You can never tell people you're inexperienced and if you do, from this point forward, just like what I said above about defensive self-protection, I'm going to assume you do it so that you don't feel you HAVE to try getting physical or try getting along with a person. You being inexperienced is all up to you.

[ZA Dater]

You have no experience, so Tinder isn't for you. It's about sex.

 

What do you suggest then? I have tried bumble, ok cupid and more besides. I actually do try to get along with them irrespective of the fact I didn't find most of them physically attractive. I don't find large people attractive and women with kids don't appeal to me at all. Which leaves me with the following choices:

 

1: Construct a BS personality just for dating which would be very hard.

2: Simply pay for company.

3: Pretend to be someone I am not.

 

The fundamental problem is as Elaine says people on these platforms want a relationship and not friends so its not even a case of being able to network. Yes I carry a sizeable grudge about dating in its entirety to the point where I wonder if option 2 isn't the best one if I can rationalise the lack of value and the fact its just wrong on so many levels. If I could rationalise those two aspects I think I could construct dates which are what I want with people I find attractive but to do that I'd need to park my morals in the gutter which I am not comfortable with.

 

Unfortunately the real problem was meeting a lot of people I did like but had no chance with combined with confidence destroyed by years of rejection.

Edited May 21, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[littleblackheart]

I don't want a compatible partner because I don't believe such a person exists. I simply want someone nice I like to have some sort of interest in me, go on a few dates, if she doesn't like me then so be it.

 

You don't believe that a compatible partner exists? You mean to say in general, or for you in particular?

 

I'll be on a level - I used to think there would be no men I would ever find compatible and attractive enough, because I thought I had such lofty standards (bear in mind I don't do online dating and my experiences are strictly in the real world).

 

Then I got out of my own head, realised that I'm not a special snowflake with crazy standards; just seriously inexperienced and a bit naive. But mostly, it turns out that the reason I was rejecting every single opportunity I had of meeting new men is because I didn't want to conform to the social diktat that says single is bad. I'm happier single. That's my thing.

 

You need to have your own eureka moment that will help you make sense of how your mind works / what vibes you give out yo women and why, beyond the shallow reasons you are clinging on to here (women are superficial, you lose out because you don't want to conform or because you have no experience).

[Blanco]

You should give up on dating, ZA.

[preraph]

I feel you're eliminating people on moral grounds because they don't want to wait around for you to be ready to move forward an inch or because they want sex. Like that makes them inferior some way. I think that's just your excuse to not have sex with them.

 

Have we talked about this in the past? Have you tried taking dancing lessons so you get used to being near a woman? I think you'd find a comfort zone because you know nothing is going to happen, but meanwhile, you get a little practice at touching a woman in an appropriate way and learning dance manners and how to be a gentleman and maybe how to chat a bit. They're expensive, but I think something like ballroom dance lessons would be a good lesson for you. Or I guess salsa, as long as it's "touch" dancing. Might dissipate some fear.

[littleblackheart]

^^ I suggested joining the local theater group on another thread for similar reasons (confidencr boosting) - it didn't go very far.

[LenaRea]

ZA - I know it can be a painful prospect trying to date, especially if confidence hasn’t come naturally in your life. Honestly, I think attaining true, lasting confidence is a continuous process that stems from being real about yourself, your motivations, and your true, honest needs and/or desires. This is not a once in a lifetime event, it’s an evolution. But to really feel truly confident, it’s impossible to maintain this white-knuckle hold you have on the pain and grievances of the past.

 

It feels much better to hold grudges, to be pissed off, to be bitter, and to blame the “beautiful” *********s for not recognizing how amazing and perfect you are. Believe me, I can completely understand and relate. Unfortunately, going into situations from this place creates the opposite of what you want it to achieve. It pushes people away and confirms what you already believe about yourself. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy basically. People treated you badly -> which has made you feel (rightly) badly -> which makes you treat people badly -> which makes them walk away -> which makes you think they “were right” all along....

 

But true confidence comes from a place of self acceptance and the knowledge that you ARE ENOUGH. YOU ARE WORTHY....right now, as you are. What anyone else thinks of you doesn’t inform the root of who you are, nor does it inform your confidence or self-esteem. It’s yours. You own it already.

 

Feeling truly confident, you won’t need any of the ploys you are trying to use. You can simply relax, meet as yourself, be authentic in both your desire to know the other person and in your presence. No fake stories, no bitterness, no pretense.

 

The problem is that you’re not close to this yet. You really need to take a step back from dating and get to know yourself. Find out what you really want from a “date” or a relationship or out of life (because I don’t think you know) and FULLY ACCEPT IT!! ALL OF IT!! Your past, your present, and your future. That’s really the only way you will be successful moving forward. All The pretense you’ve been using up till this point is the exact reason dates feel uncomfortable. They can feel everything you are thinking. It’s the vibe you’re giving off. And, based on your other threads, you’d be more than incensed if a girl met up you with this attitude. ‘Tit for tat’ is not a dating motto....

 

Is an aspect of dating “a numbers game,” to a degree yes, but not if you’re meeting out with so much simmering angst.

 

I really feel for you, ZA. I do. Which is interesting because from a lot of your other threads you made me so angry with your misogynistic behavior and bullshyte; I can tell how interesting and intelligent you are, knock off the di@kwad behavior. Even the most desperate, insecure, and inexperienced of girls will be turned off by how much it seems you hate them. Time to turn your self-loathing into something positive, for once.

 

When you manage that, when you finally relieve yourself of this massive boulder on your shoulders, then you will make real progress dating. You’ll feel connections and actually like people again. Including yourself.

[ZA Dater]

Have we talked about this in the past? Have you tried taking dancing lessons so you get used to being near a woman? I think you'd find a comfort zone because you know nothing is going to happen, but meanwhile, you get a little practice at touching a woman in an appropriate way and learning dance manners and how to be a gentleman and maybe how to chat a bit.

Unfortunately I have the co ordination of a not very co ordinated elephant when it comes to dancing I something I am VERY bad at. Sure I can do it but I need to be very persuaded to do it. The only other idea I thought about was going to a proper gym as opposed to working out whenever I have a moment but based on what I read about dating a gyms here I reckon its a bad idea, in addition the chances of anyone being single are like 1 in a 1000.

 

I wouldn't have an issue going out of my comfort zone if I found the person attractive to begin with but almost nobody I get to meet I find attractive. SO somehow I need to meet people I do find attractive which once again brings me back into that entire circle of "cant really compete".

Edited May 21, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[ZA Dater]

ZA - I know it can be a painful prospect trying to date, especially if confidence hasn’t come naturally in your life. Honestly, I think attaining true, lasting confidence is a continuous process that stems from being real about yourself, your motivations, and your true, honest needs and/or desires.

I believe one needs to find some sort of success to build confidence, I train people in various aspects of what I do, many arrive with very limited confidence, the by product of their circumstances to lesser and greater degrees, the first thing I do I try instil the believe that they can do better, they can accomplish, as soon as someone believes that there want to do accomplish increases. A good example is someone who arrived with a stutter, nobody liked him, people mocked him, his English wasn't fantastic but as soon as I got him learning, believing, savouring the small wins he improved a lot in confidence. The fact we he had wins along the road which boosted his confidence.

With dating I haven't had any wins at all, none. The fact that at 35 I haven't been kissed is frankly pathetic and while its easy to say "ignore it" the reality is I cant. My lack of confidence manifests itself in a few ways:

 

1: awkwardness, this I try and hide with conversation but this inevitably then involves taking the conversation onto a level the person then cannot follow.

 

2: there is seldom any sense of connecting with the person, this I define by a lack of common ground or conversation. WHEN this very rarely does work I instantly find that person attractive.

 

Sure, I am worthy, according to Tinder worthy of nobody even vaguely attractive, its difficult to divorce myself from the fact I am not getting likes from attractive people but rather from people I don't find attractive at all. No amount of picture changes gets me better matches.

 

I am tall, in good shape but I am quiet, not exactly the life of any party and I cant help but feel I am simply not fun enough to date. In my mind the only way I can TRY get around this is to somehow offer something which makes me an attractive choice, what that is I have no idea.

 

I don't hate girls, I hate the entire game of dating, the foundations of which unfortunately I perceive to be very superficial at best but there are reasons for that, ONLY once has that belief been challenged.

Edited May 21, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[TooBad]

I suggest you stop feeling sorry for yourself, since the only reason you are the way you are is... you.

[Foxhall]

You need to play a smarter game overall.

 

You do have to reveal as much about yourself at an early stage, give less information to begin with and as you meet various women you can then choose to be more honest when you do eventually meet the girl that you feel comfortable with,

 

if it is sexual hook ups you want, then you have to lie and project as confident an appearance of yourself as possible

 

on the other hand, I agree with you about it being better to be honest if you are seeking a long term partner, however pouring your heart out straight away or downgrading yourself on a dating site profile is a mistake,

 

you need to play it cool try to be engaging, keep it general and build rapport initially,

 

give yourself the best chance, will this particular lady react negatively to telling her you have no experience etc, then you have to lie and try to promote a more suave version of yourself,

 

you have to trust your instincts on this,

 

you may meet a good match at some point, beautiful looking lady who is also inexperienced in terms of relationships and so on, and then you can be more yourself and open up and you have a connection,

 

this may not happen on a first date, it could take 3 or 4 dates so just be patient

 

there are plenty of these inexperienced ladies out there too, it is just finding them!!

 

ladies will also lie by the way, they will project as positive an image as possible but in reality they may not be as worldly wise as they let on,

 

one can overthink all this too, at the end of the day the key thing is being able to hold conversation and making the person feel at ease in your company.

[Normm]

Way I look at it. Better to say I don't have experience dating then they won't expect me to have.

 

The way you look at it is warped, ineffective and has gotten you nowhere.

[LauraXX]

I read some of your previous threads and I'm having a bit of a déja vu.

 

You're trying to find a woman who is your complete opposite. That would be hard for anybody, but especially for a guy in his 30s without any dating experience. On top of that, you want to find that person without having to adjust your behaviour at all and without stepping even one foot out of your comfort zone. I'm really sorry ZA Dater, but it's just not going to happen.

 

You'll have to either lower your expectations, step up your game or quit moaning. And, just to make that clear because you don't seem to understand the difference: Stepping up your game and getting out of your comfort zone doesn't have anything to do with changing your personality or not being your true self.

 

I also completely agree with LenaRae above. The way you speak about women and objectify your previous dates sounds extremely misogynistic and that's the biggest possible turn-off. You could have the most charming Tinder profile ... if you and I went on a date and I'd get just a hint of the way you generalize people's and especially women's behaviour ("women are so superficial", "women just want the guy with the biggest wallet" bla bla) I'd run for my life. If the women you're interested in actually behave like that and are actually impressed by that - well, that says a lot about your taste in women but nothing AT ALL about women in general.

[ZA Dater]

You need to play a smarter game overall.

Probably true. I used to play the "ok I will do this on date one, that on date two and try to build up some sort of connection BUT I never get date two or most of the time I don't want date two with that particular person in which case I might as well throw everything on the table on date one.

 

What I learnt is that dating is a throw away game, find, don't like, throw away, I didn't believe in this but when it was done to me over and over again I realised that's exactly what dating is to large extent. I do think superficial is important because maybe it creates an interest which would not ordinarily be there, its how to harness this effectively that's the question, how to play up to it in a transparent way.

 

You are absolutely right, give me a few dates with an engaging, attractive person and the whole experience is quite nice because I am then comfortable with the person, a lot is made of me making people feel comfortable, is the reverse not true to some extent?

 

Amid all these crappy experiences there have been two notable ones where things did go quite well, for different reasons, one was with a model, I wont ever meet someone like this again, she saw people as people, she dates pretty much anyone based on if she thinks they are a good person. She did get me and my lack of confidence and it was nice to spend some time with her, go to places, people notice and where I would ordinarily be ignored suddenly I was greeted, an all round amazing person, proof that all round amazing does exist. The other was the yoga lady, again I could just be me, there was no judgement, I radiated a huge amount of awkwardness which I tried to hide "its ok, I don't have a lot of confidence either, I just pretend to have" and it was a week of lunches and saw quite a lot of her, the guard was down completely and I could just live for that moment with her.

 

In both instances they took me as I was and didn't throw me away because of what I was, yes I wasn't dating them but neither needed to be that nice to me but they were, they genuinely had an interest, albeit not a relationship one but an interest nonetheless. More so than pretty much any date I go on, where I am often looked at as being weird.

Edited May 21, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Normm]

What I learnt is that dating is a throw away game, find, don't like, throw away, I didn't believe in this but when it was done to me over and over again I realised that's exactly what dating is to large extent.

Yeah, because all those people in marriages and long term relationships must have met in other ways they never dated before they decided to become committed to each other. You learned dating is a throwaway game because that is the extent of your negative experiences, most of which are due to your inability to adapt and change as necessary to improve your success rates.

 

Now you're so extremely bitter it probably radiates from you like a beacon to any girl within 100 yards.

Edited May 21, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[elaine567]

Your positive experiences were not real dates, so you are living in cloud cuckoo land if you are holding out for that.

 

You are dismissing real women who match with you, in favour of "fantasy" women way out of your league.

These hot women were set up to help you, they were not women who found you attractive.

 

You have to get real here.

If some spectacular woman came out of the woodwork tomorrow you are nowhere near ready to properly date her.

Even simple hugging and kissing has so far eluded you, you have to dive in at some point...

[ZA Dater]

Your positive experiences were not real dates, so you are living in cloud cuckoo land if you are holding out for that.

You know what, if I had to choose I'd rather have more of those positive experiences which were not dates than the truly forgettable dating experiences I have had.

 

I'll say this though, it must be nice to be able to choose of that calibre of person. But I guess one can live vicariously which for me at least a lot better than going out with miss single mom who has no ambition, kids from a guy she hardly sees, is looking for a substitute everything and hasn't been to gym ever.

 

If that's the best I can do then yes I am quite ok with living vicariously meeting the odd amazing person every few years.

Edited May 21, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[littleblackheart]

It's good to have some level of self-awareness, OP. Apparently you have accepted that you don't have a choice in the calibre of women who are interested in you and you know you don't have what it takes to attract what you view as top of the crop women.

 

if I had to choose I'd rather have more of those positive experiences which were not dates than the truly forgettable dating experiences I have had.

 

The good news is that you can choose not to date ever again, and as you say live vicariously going on pretend dates organised by your charitable friends.

[BaileyB]

I'll say this though, it must be nice to be able to choose of that calibre of person. But I guess one can live vicariously which for me at least a lot better than going out with miss single mom who has no ambition, kids from a guy she hardly sees, is looking for a substitute everything and hasn't been to gym ever.

 

It still astounds me how unbelievably judgmental you can be towards women.

 

What ludicrous assumptions you have made in this statement - the single mother, raising her children on her own, doesn’t have time to go to the gym because she is working hard to provide for the financial and emotional needs of her children... You want ambition - that’s ambition.

 

Perhaps you do need to continue your search for a college girl or a 25 year old Swedish flight attendant. A single mother raising her children alone probably doesn’t have the time or the inclination to date a “boy” with your level of superficiality, immaturity, and ignorance.

[littleblackheart]

BaileyB, as a single mother I didn't take offence at OP's post; but I don't really know why he's worried about single mums running after him. He can rest easy on that front, most single mothers have high standards too.... An inexperienced 35yo with a bad attitude is noone's top choice, single mother or not.

Edited May 21, 2019 by littleblackheart

[BaileyB]

BaileyB, as a single mother I didn't take offence at OP's post; but I don't really know why he's worried about single mums running after him. He can rest easy on that front, most single mothers have high standards too....

 

Without a doubt, and they have high standards for good reason. It takes a man of a certain caliber to date a single mother...

[LenaRea]

I'll say this though, it must be nice to be able to choose of that calibre of person. But I guess one can live vicariously which for me at least a lot better than going out with miss single mom who has no ambition, kids from a guy she hardly sees, is looking for a substitute everything and hasn't been to gym ever.

 

And the good old ZA I’ve learned to “love” is back.....so much for my good will.

 

First, those experiences were good ones because you were actually being yourself, as well as accepting yourself in those moments and encounters, which is why the women felt positive around you. Doesn’t matter that they weren’t real dates. If you carry the same feelings on dates, you’d have a much more positive experience. But, that comment will start the same hamster wheel, so think of it as a rhetorical comment.

 

As for the second part - I’m a single mom. Have been for 8 years. My daughter sees her father regularly. I’m not looking for a substitute anything because I don’t need a straggler or loser in my life. Me and my daughter are more than fine, thank you. I don’t pay for a gym because I don’t want to be around a-holz like you, but I guarantee you I could bend better than yoga-girl. I’m fit and fierce. Don’t need a gym membership to be fit and healthy. As for ambition, in the time since I’ve been a single mother I’ve gone back to school twice, earned two degrees, and changed careers. I’m going back to pursue my doctorate at the beginning of next year. But, you’re right, zero motivation or ambition (sarcasm.) As a general rule, a single mother has more motivation, as it’s been proven to her over time she can only count on herself. My standards are very high, which is how I can honestly say to you a quality woman, with self-esteem would absolutely walk from a meeting with you given the energy you radiate. Your lack of experience would be a non-issue for a true quality woman with confidence and self respect, it’s your shallow, misogynistic, judgmental attitude that is forcing those women away.

Edited May 21, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Normm]

if I had to choose I'd rather have more of those positive experiences which were not dates than the truly forgettable dating experiences I have had.

 

Those are not the only options, however they might be YOUR only options given the limitations you have self imposed due to your rigid inflexibility and inability to change.

 

it must be nice to be able to choose of that calibre of person.

 

It sure is. I've dated dozens of women over my 35+ year history and have had some great relationships with high caliber women including the wonderful woman I'm with for 7 years now. I've had choices of all sorts of "calibers" as you put it, because I do what is necessary to attract these women- everything you do NOT do. These "choices" don't just appear out of nowhere you need to market yourself. I'm not saying "lie" just don't do stupid s&%t like saying "I've never dated before" because you think doing otherwise is a lie and you won't do that. Do you rip a roaring fart on a first date or on a local bus ride through town? No? Why not? if you got the gas, why not let it out. It's WHO YOU ARE. If you don't loudly fart then you are a LIAR.

 

yes I am quite ok with living vicariously meeting the odd amazing person every few years.

 

Your 100s of miserable threads say you are far from "ok". The only person you are lying to is you.