coffee date not progressing to dinner?

[losangelena]

I think people are missing the point. That’s fine if he wasn’t up for paying for dinner. The part that was inconsiderate was to continue the date well past dinner and either not ending it or asking if she was hungry. It may seem like a small thing but it wasn’t. This is just basic etiquette and good manners, if you ask me.

 

No, no. I inderstand that. I’m wondering why OP couldn’t say anything, though? If she was hungry, if she felt like it was time to transition, to either move to the second location or go home, then why couldn’t OP say, “hey, I’m having a great time, let’s go get a slice/taco/etc,” or, “it’s been great but I need to go home and eat something?” She doesn’t have to sit there, uncomfortable with the situation, just because she’s trying to gauge some measure of etiquette or investment on his part. I understand that it’s annoying, he’s already failed the consideratness aspect, so why sit there, suffering in silence?

 

I don’t really understand that mindset.

[fieldoflavender]

Yeah maybe I dragged out an extra 30 minutes - 60 minutes, I guess I was also trying to get information to help my decision making of whether to go on another date or not.

 

And we were still talking.

 

But anyways, I did mention the restaurant thing. And yeah I was the one who suggested I was going to leave.

 

And I would've not mentioned any of it at all if he wasn't all like "oh I like you so much blah blah". If he wasn't interested, it would have actually made sense.

 

Since he supposedly "likes me so much" as he self-professes, his behaviour makes very little sense.

[bathtub-row]

No, no. I inderstand that. I’m wondering why OP couldn’t say anything, though? If she was hungry, if she felt like it was time to transition, to either move to the second location or go home, then why couldn’t OP say, “hey, I’m having a great time, let’s go get a slice/taco/etc,” or, “it’s been great but I need to go home and eat something?” She doesn’t have to sit there, uncomfortable with the situation, just because she’s trying to gauge some measure of etiquette or investment on his part. I understand that it’s annoying, he’s already failed the consideratness aspect, so why sit there, suffering in silence?

 

I don’t really understand that mindset.

 

Well, I probably would’ve only waited a short time before leaving but I can see where someone might drag it out thinking he’s bound to clue in at some point.

[I'veseenbetterlol]

Kinda torn on this. On one hand if he planned a coffee date, maybe he had plans afterwards? This could also be an indication he doesn't like you. I've had long 1st dates just hanging out where there was interest. One time I dragged out a date w/a guy I didn't like (met him online), only because he had come from an hour away. See if he tries to set up something else or accepts your offer for a date, if not he isn't interested.

[d0nnivain]

The more you write, the more I think you just aren't that into him but you want us to tell you it's OK.

 

The brother thing is triggering you. Not everybody who can afford to live alone wants to do that. He may prefer the companionship. He also may prefer to save money.

 

You agree that you "tested" him & he failed your test. If you felt the need to test him on a 1st meet, don't waste your time dating him. No matter what he does you will never see him as good enough. You came into this looking to find faults & you found them.

[Highndry]

...Thing is - he also makes a lot less than me so if anything, he should be proving he can at least not be a complete cheapo - no I don't expect him to pay for everything but if he's going to be cheap then it indicates what his financial spending will be like in the future, and no thanks to paying tons of alimony...

 

This struck me as REALLY odd since it was a first date. I had remembered another post by somebody that was eerily similar - so I checked and it was by YOU!

 

Your boundaries are messed up, and you are assuming things and getting WAY too personal for first dates, and also having unreasonable expectations as to what a guy "should" do for you when you don't even know him.

 

I don't even share ANYTHING about my financial situation with a woman until we are dating exclusively, and even then she's not going to know my net worth unless I've decided that we're going to be together for the long haul.

[JuneL]

Thank you, yes I found it lacking. It's the recognizing it was dinner time as a gentleman. He could even be like "Oh I wish we could grab something but I'm short on time I have to rush back to whatever." It's the lack of recognition then like "Oh I wasn't hungry" - inconsiderate not to consider whether someone else is hungry or not. Or just leave right. Yes I could have left too but I kind of wanted to see how he would handle it.

 

Why did you mention “restaurants” and “not feeling hungry” at all if no dinner was discussed?

[some_username1]

This struck me as REALLY odd since it was a first date. I had remembered another post by somebody that was eerily similar - so I checked and it was by YOU!

 

Your boundaries are messed up, and you are assuming things and getting WAY too personal for first dates, and also having unreasonable expectations as to what a guy "should" do for you when you don't even know him.

 

I don't even share ANYTHING about my financial situation with a woman until we are dating exclusively, and even then she's not going to know my net worth unless I've decided that we're going to be together for the long haul.

 

I recall OP starting a thread about a guy who was too frivolous. Now she has found a guy who is too cheap

 

With respect OP it does sound like your first dates inevitably end up in a bit of a **** swinging contest on loveshack about finances. I'm sure there must be more to life than evaluating people based on money from the get go. If you aren't having any success then it might be worth putting more emphasis on their character, at least early on. Finances are obviously important but from the outside it seems to be a fixation on your part and it might be holding you back.

[fieldoflavender]

This struck me as REALLY odd since it was a first date. I had remembered another post by somebody that was eerily similar - so I checked and it was by YOU!

 

Your boundaries are messed up, and you are assuming things and getting WAY too personal for first dates, and also having unreasonable expectations as to what a guy "should" do for you when you don't even know him.

 

I don't even share ANYTHING about my financial situation with a woman until we are dating exclusively, and even then she's not going to know my net worth unless I've decided that we're going to be together for the long haul.

 

Why should I define my boundaries as how you define them? Maybe I don't want to date the same people or type of people as you? More likely than not, we're looking for absolutely different things in a relationship and the things that will make you fulfilled/satisfied will do nothing for me.

 

If you don't share anything, good for you. Finances are huge in a long term relationship and it's a screening tool for me. I'm not 15 years old. I'm not going to waste 3 years of my life going to movies and doing netflix and chill until I later figure out the person is a dead beat and can't hold up their end of a marriage financially and pay tons of alimony.

 

If you're a mature adult, you can definitely have those conversations up front about what you want. And we had those conversations already BEFORE meeting on both sides mutually - not like I asked him questions.

 

I'm looking for a partner who will progress to marriage. So is chemistry great? I could probably go to a bar and have great chemistry with tons of guys. If those guys don't have grad level educations or don't have a certain income bracket, I know what I want, and it just won't work out.

 

Maybe some people don't care if their partner is a stay at home wife/husband etc but I'm not okay with that (unless in specific contexts but not from the get-go) so having a compatible chemistry/character is NOT enough. There's nothing wrong with those people, they can be wonderful people, but I know I won't be satisfied in a relationship like that and they won't be attractive to me.

 

Just having money is also not enough but if the financial part is grossly not compatible, then I don't see the point in investing more emotions. Unless they are super hot and I want FWB but I don't right now.

 

And yes I was triggered by the brother thing and some other things. I agree if it's JUST the dinner thing, it's not a horrible terrible sin he can not recover from - dense maybe, but not impossible to recover from. The other stuff I do not know.

 

I think it's a difference in values. Maybe he wants to save, but I can't stay over at a guy's house if he's living with someone else. If I was 22 years old, it's probably fine. At this point, he kind of needs his own place and the fact he's voluntarily doing this for over a year kind of speaks against my values. So I do not know if I can get over that.

 

The discussion on restaurants and not hungry was this. It was getting later - he's like oh everything is closing. I said "there's still restaurants open". No response from him. Talk for a bit longer. Then I say let's head out.

 

Then he texts me it's a great time - I loved meeting you, let's meet again soon. Since he did all that, I said yeah etc and then we talked a bit more so I asked him if he ate and he said he did, so I was like oh yeah I was so hungry and blah blah anyways it came up that I kind of mentioned "Oh you could have eaten there" and he's like "oh I wasn't hungry otherwise I would have". Like that comment seems a bit inconsiderate - like HE wasn't hungry, doesn't care if other people are. Like even if you're with a friend, you would even ask them if it's close to dinner time.

 

Not a deal breaker on that one action, but not very impressive either.

 

And I don't think I should have to have the same expectations as everyone else on the forum for first dates. I'm busy - I don't have 10 million hours to go on 10 million more dates with people. It's a screening tool. No it's not a prenup discussion, but at the same time, if the main stuff isn't there, why continue. Again I'm looking for an eventual marriage partner in the next 1-2 years and I'm not like 15 years old. Chemistry alone isn't going to cut it. If they have the basics, then the next few dates are about the chemistry etc.

 

I have dated guys who have the basics, then there is no chemistry and we haven't worked out.

 

Is it hard for me to find someone? I know it is, but I've sacrificed on these principles before and it hasn't worked out and I've been more miserable.

 

Everyone has their criteria - some people don't like chubbier people, lack of physical chemistry, balding people blah blah. Those things are more obvious on a first date without having to ask/discuss. The stuff I'm looking for is less apparent without observation of behaviour/discussions.

 

No I didn't go into the first date doing it using the "test" as a premeditated plot, but since we were talking anyways so late, I wanted to see how he would act.

Edited March 12, 2019 by fieldoflavender

[Juha]

After reading your last post above and prior thread it is very, very easy to see

why you are not having any luck dating...

 

I can guarantee if you keep up with this attitude and tack in dating you will not find a marriage partner ever, let alone the next 1-2 years...

 

Think you really need to reevaluate how you go about things, your attitude, and your criteria if you want to have a chance to find a man for a relationship

 

I wish you luck

Edited March 12, 2019 by Juha

[Highndry]

What people disclose before you've ever met them in person will never be the whole truth. Why should they? They don't even know you and you haven't earned their trust enough for them to confide in you their financial position, etc.

 

The fact that you are coming on so strong about the financial aspect with prospective men will not bode well for you. Why? Because men are sick and tired of being treated like a wallet. It's no different than a man saying to you "how big are your tits again? How often do you like to have sex?" That'll turn off large swaths of women, as it should.

[fieldoflavender]

The people who are taking offence to it and feeling like it challenges their masculinity or whatever, are often the people who don't have that much to offer on that front. Just like how women often complain about how they are not just "tits" or whatever. Nothing is black and white. Why should a man not allowed to want a woman with sexual appeal? More often than not, that's not the only thing a (decent) man would want. Similarly, a (decent) woman often wants a man who has the capability to put up his front financially plus other things.

 

And when the woman can offer similar things, then there is less risk of being a gold digger or reverse gold digger or whatever.

 

Actually capable guys who actually have something in that area to offer (not purely offering "charm" alone or "good character" alone) will want to talk about that because they are mature enough to understand that stuff actually matters. People should be not ashamed to talk about their accomplishments in life. There is a difference between discussing and outright bragging about something. If people have something to "hide", then it begs the question why they need to.

 

And it's great that you guys would be the type of people who would "not disclose the whole truth" - it's great to lie to someone you've just met. Of course you don't have to share, but lying is wonderful.

 

I don't bring out my bank statement, duh, but I don't lie about things. If I'm not comfortable, I just don't talk about it. But how much property you own and what type of work you do should be fair game. It speaks to how much you've worked in your life to get to where you are - it speaks more to character in many ways (if it's your own hard earned money) than all the fluffy things which can be faked very easily in a first date.

 

And contrary to what people supposedly believe, not everyone wants to "Date" and get married to settle. Some people actually have standards. I can "have" many men for relationships, but why would I want someone who doesn't meet my criteria? It's a choice - and sure being single is a possibility but everyone does things that they weigh the pro's and con's. If "having a man" is the most important thing to you guys, then great, good luck with that too. I'm not so easily satisfied in life.

 

Anyways, I've done the other method before. Developed tons of chemistry, then wasted time when financially it doesn't work. I have tried very hard but it is not very attractive to me when a guy can't build assets to be on par with me. If I've spent most of my life aiming for excellence, then I'm supposed to skimp when it comes to a life partner? Okay then.

 

Meh the real issue is more that the men who are responsible, capable, and have the attributes that are admirable I might have missed out when I was younger spending time on my career. The people left over in this stage are just what's available. Fact of life.

Edited March 12, 2019 by fieldoflavender

[bathtub-row]

There’s nothing wrong with knowing what you want and being selective. If more people did that, there would probably be fewer divorces.

[Juha]

I will say it again... You are much too bitter to date!

 

When money is your #1 criteria when dating to find a relationship you will never be happy...

 

There is so, so much more than money and how much someone has accomplished. Why you might ask? Well every person is different, everyone has to deal with different things in life. Money and possessions don't let you know about who or what a person is, except maybe for you.

 

You really need to reevaluate things if you want to find a relationship.

 

You are far to judgmental and bitter to date.

I know you will not agree as you are very stubborn and think you are

correct, that is how you come off in your posts.

 

Maybe one day you will get it and then find a good person to be with, even one who does not have lots of money and possessions. Believe it or not there are many regular guys who live well and are great, caring, loving people. Although those may not be things you put much weight into when evaluating men from what you post...

 

I will wish you luck once again.

[fieldoflavender]

Yeah in my younger years, I've done the "oh let's not touch taboo topics, let's pretend I'm a super everything is okay girl" and it works - until the guy then wants me to make huge career changes to support him.

 

This way, at least I can screen against that. If someone is super uncomfortable with me being independent, then it won't work anyways.

 

Just like if a girl is uncomfortable and not confident with herself physically or otherwise, and needs tons of reassurance or taboo talk from the guy, then it won't go well either.

 

I know I'm not a super model but I know physically from looks or otherwise what I can offer. In the past, yeah I always needed guys to reassure me I wasn't fat and all that crap. Now I don't need that anymore.

 

Just like it's super attractive when a guy is comfortable and confident with his finance situation and career and can talk about it freely without all this extra padding for his ego.

[fieldoflavender]

I will say it again... You are much too bitter to date!

 

When money is your #1 criteria when dating to find a relationship you will never be happy...

 

There is so, so much more than money and how much someone has accomplished. Why you might ask? Well every person is different, everyone has to deal with different things in life. Money and possessions don't let you know about who or what a person is, except maybe for you.

 

You really need to reevaluate things if you want to find a relationship.

 

You are far to judgmental and bitter to date.

I know you will not agree as you are very stubborn and think you are

correct, that is how you come off in your posts.

 

Maybe one day you will get it and then find a good person to be with, even one who does not have lots of money and possessions. Believe it or not there are many regular guys who live well and are great, caring, loving people. Although those may not be things you put much weight into when evaluating men from what you post...

 

I will wish you luck once again.

 

Someone being a "good person" doesn't mean they are right for everyone. A marriage partner is very different than evaluating whether someone is a "good person" That's where you have issues and take personal offence to the fact that if someone has a certain criteria for financial capability, it automatically means they're "judgemental" and they must change. That's also extremely narrow minded.

 

I can understand if someone is telling me that if I spoke lowly of people from different social classes. I make friends with people from all social classes. Friends are different than a life partner. There's tons of "good people" who are out there - doesn't mean I want to marry them or they will be compatible. But you're evidently stubborn in your views, so you can live your life the way you want and I can do the same.

 

I wasn't the one that came on a forum judging people for their life choices/preferences just saying. It's great it works for you, but it clearly does not work for me.

 

Again, we all cave into "political correctness" - being "Caring, great, loving" is the society mantra for a great life partner. Except it's actually not just enough - while they are wonderful attributes, for many people, it's not enough or leads to attraction. But it's politically incorrect to say that.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Yeah to be honest this isn't the only thing - it was also like the fact that he's going to be living with his brother for a year. And he has the financial means not to do so so it seems like a difference in financial values/other values. Especially since I broke up with my ex fiancé over him being too smothered with his brother and choosing his brother's priorities over me (yes yes you should never make people pick blah blah but we all know when push comes to shove, when you're not prioritized in a relationship, what is the point).

 

I knew that going into the date so it's not a hard deal breaker but it's on the edge of a deal breaker and with little inconsiderate things like this, it may just put me over the edge.

 

The thing is he may be lying and all but I don't think there is a need to be all "Oh I really enjoyed meeting you, let's meet again soon, I really enjoyed spending time with you" if he just wasn't into it.

 

Thing is - he also makes a lot less than me so if anything, he should be proving he can at least not be a complete cheapo - no I don't expect him to pay for everything but if he's going to be cheap then it indicates what his financial spending will be like in the future, and no thanks to paying tons of alimony.

 

Yeah so maybe I will give it one more go - but if the behaviour is going to continue like this or maybe I simply will not be okay with the living with brother thing. We're in our 30's like come on.

 

Or maybe I will just never stay over at his place. Like if it's a year, then yeah whatever, I'm not staying over. And if he has an issue with that, then I guess different values.

 

To the bolded: In which case why didn't you offer to treat him to dinner? I would have if I wanted to spend more time with him, I was hungry, and knew it was obvious I had the higher paying job.

 

Oh, wait. I didn't read threads in between your post before responding, sorry! It seems you may be wanting to find someone who makes more money and can treat you instead?

Edited March 12, 2019 by LivingWaterPlease

[Juha]

No man will want to date let alone have a relationship with anyone who has the attitude you have. Most of what I have said seems to just go above your head.

 

"Good person" meaning for a serious relationship/marriage

 

In order to have a great relationship/marriage being great/best friends is one of the most important criteria to have if you want to have a happy and successful relationship/marriage. Unfortunately it does not seem that those are things you value...

 

You are very skewed in your thinking about relationships. What is important to having a great and happy one at least. Many things go into that but I can definitely tell you what you are valuing the most will not lead to that.

 

Seem so bitter, angry, judgmental, rigid, and your whole attitude is very off putting. When things are not working it is time to take a long, hard look at why things are not working...

 

Really though you should not be dating, you will never meet anyone who passes your criteria or will be interested in you with your attitude...

[fieldoflavender]

No they don't need to make more - at this point I'm okay if they make 50% of what I make because I make a lot and it's hard to find someone who can do that. So I would hardly say I have super high standards.

 

And sure I can treat him but maybe I'm traditional, for the first dinner, I like it when the guy pays. But again it wasn't so much the "who pays" - we didn't get that far, he kind of didn't even recognize it was dinner time even after I hinted.

 

And I thought guys don't like it when a girl treats them early on.

 

Anyways the early date dynamics wise - I prefer generally if they make less/about same to me, they are a bit forward in the first few dates, then of course I will pick the tab about 50/50 onwards. No I don't want a steak dinner, just something simple. He was making well enough that a dinner would not be breaking the bank.

[fieldoflavender]

No man will want to date let alone have a relationship with anyone who has the attitude you have. Most of what I have said seems to just go above your head.

 

"Good person" meaning for a serious relationship/marriage

 

In order to have a great relationship/marriage being great/best friends is one of the most important criteria to have if you want to have a happy and successful relationship/marriage. Unfortunately it does not seem that those are things you value...

 

You are very skewed in your thinking about relationships. What is important to having a great and happy one at least. Many things go into that but I can definitely tell you what you are valuing the most will not lead to that.

 

Seem so bitter, angry, judgmental, rigid, and your whole attitude is very off putting. When things are not working it is time to take a long, hard look at why things are not working...

 

Really though you should not be dating, you will never meet anyone who passes your criteria or will be interested in you with your attitude...

 

Anyways, I've read a lot of your comments on other people's posts on this forum. You've labeled a lot of people as such "bitter, resentful"if they disagree with your world views, if anything, I would recommend you be a bit open minded and not attack other people's views. Anyways I'm done with responding to you if it's so aggressive and so rigid in how OTHER people should view.

 

I'm actually quite okay with how other people want to find their life partners. And perhaps I'm rigid in how I want to find MY life partner, but I'm not going to change that just because someone is saying facts as if it's a law on a forum. So maybe reflect on that. And the other thing is - telling people what attributes they value or have is a bit premature when you don't actually know me or the other people on the forum - dating history, life situation or anything. If you treat other people in your real life the way you express your views or are so quick to judge them in such a manner, I'm pretty sure people aren't going to take it well either.

Edited March 12, 2019 by fieldoflavender

[bathtub-row]

This debate about money - particularly from men - amuses me. Years ago, when I was on eHarmony, one of the criteria in the correspondence with every man interested in me was that I be financially viable. Not just one or two of them, but ALL of them. This is a big topic for everyone and I will say that it’s zero fun being married to someone with no money, who weighs you down, and worse, who has no prospects of doing better.

 

When I was very young, money wasn’t on my radar. But, looking back, I realize that was a mistake. Not that I was wrong to marry guys who had no money, but they had no real prospects of doing well over time. This impacted my life for years. These days, I wouldn’t have the patience to deal with financial problems.

[fieldoflavender]

Yeah it's really not that difficult. As with anything, money is bad - but we can't do without it either. It's about striking a balance.

 

For me, it's not just about the amount of money, but financial values which are huge. Sometimes you can make the same salary, but if one person spends way too much or too little, it causes conflicts. You can't find someone EXACTLY the same as your views, but if it's way too off, it's simply incompatible.

[LivingWaterPlease]

No they don't need to make more - at this point I'm okay if they make 50% of what I make because I make a lot and it's hard to find someone who can do that. So I would hardly say I have super high standards.

 

And sure I can treat him but maybe I'm traditional, for the first dinner, I like it when the guy pays. But again it wasn't so much the "who pays" - we didn't get that far, he kind of didn't even recognize it was dinner time even after I hinted.

 

And I thought guys don't like it when a girl treats them early on.

 

Anyways the early date dynamics wise - I prefer generally if they make less/about same to me, they are a bit forward in the first few dates, then of course I will pick the tab about 50/50 onwards. No I don't want a steak dinner, just something simple. He was making well enough that a dinner would not be breaking the bank.

 

I get it. I'm actually very traditional, too, preferring to be treated.

 

But, when it's obvious I make more money I'm going to be the one paying and not thinking a thing about it!

 

I dated a guy I just loved spending time with and paid for most of our simple dates. We had so much fun together! I don't think it bothered either of us that I paid because he was very confident, we had great chemistry, and he was working hard to better himself. To me, the fact that he was motivated was key, not the fact that he had no money.

 

Anyway, I married the guy and he very soon was doing quite well financially. He ended up going into business for himself and making a lot of money so that I had the choice whether to work or not while we were married.

 

I'm editing to add that I've seen men who were doing well lose their money and I've seen men who had little end up making a fortune. For me, I'm going to date men whose company I enjoy, not based on how much money they make. And the men I date seem to have the same attitude toward women they date.

Edited March 12, 2019 by LivingWaterPlease

[fieldoflavender]

Somehow I can't edit the above so here's what I was going to add

-

 

We don't live in a naive world lol. Just like I hope a guy wouldn't just be with me because he is telling me I'm pretty, but I also appreciate very much if he did not find me attractive/pretty, he would not want to date me. I wouldn't take offence at this point and age if someone didn't date me if they didn't find me pretty. It's okay lol. We are big girls and boys. We should be able to handle stuff without going on a politically correct rant about how people should pick partners.

 

And yeah it's contextual based for sure. I have paid for guys before too even on the first date. If they travel to see me from far away, I will always pay because it's considerate. It's not black and white. I think at the end of the day, it just indicates a level of interest, etiquette, and depending on the personal situation.

 

So no, I'm not against paying for dates but yes there should be an ultimate end game - because I wouldn't be okay paying for everything in a marriage lol.

[bathtub-row]

Yeah it's really not that difficult. As with anything, money is bad - but we can't do without it either. It's about striking a balance.

 

For me, it's not just about the amount of money, but financial values which are huge. Sometimes you can make the same salary, but if one person spends way too much or too little, it causes conflicts. You can't find someone EXACTLY the same as your views, but if it's way too off, it's simply incompatible.

 

To me, money is an indicator of how well a person can function in society. While I definitely have compassion for people who don’t thrive - and I’ve been there - it’s still a measuring stick as to how well a person can adapt and thrive in the world. If it weren’t money, it would be something else - land, sheep, cows, fruit trees, islands, whatever. It’s all part and parcel of the same thing.