Wife Doesn't Want Sex, Doubts Marriage

[Rotaglia]

Sadly, I think she really does want/expect a divorce but is too afraid to admit that's what she wants. What a colossal disappointment and utter bummer! :-( It's not the end of the world. I would survive a divorce, but it's crummy for our children and divorce is not a panacea for one's problems.

 

I am certainly not eager for a new relationship (some sex would be nice, I admit) and I am not looking forward to the prospect of the misery of the divorce process and having to completely rebuild my life after an inevitable legal and emotional war.

 

I would rather repair the relationship but it takes two to tango. She has behaved so dreadfully that it would take a lot to rebuild my trust. I really don't know how my sexual and emotional needs could be met within this marriage but I would be happy to entertain her suggestions.

 

My values are not negotiable. I will not cheat on my wife to get the sex I want. I am not interested in an open marriage. I'm of the opinion that even couples that don't have sexual intercourse do have a sex life ... what's depressing is that my wife does not take my sexual needs as something she needs to address.

 

I'm feeling rather discouraged.

[elaine567]

But this sounds like the previous conversations you had before you started posting, have you had any more recent ones?

[giotto]

She has behaved so dreadfully that it would take a lot to rebuild my trust.

 

She might have behaved dreadfully, but you have allowed her to behave like that. Without complaining for 18 months, you have given her the impression you were ok with it. You told her that she is more important than sex. It's too late now.

[bathtub-row]

I think you need to stay married, unless she’s the one to initiate the divorce. It’s very late in the game to start over and you’re likely to not handle things well, and not likely to thrive in the aftermath.

 

But you need to get the idea out of your head that something other than sexual intercourse from your wife would suffice. Accept that any and all activities that “satisfies” you is a major turn-off to her, so what you’re wanting is off the table. As a matter of fact, it would serve you well to act as though sex completely disinterests you. Not to play games with her but, if she truly means it that she wants nothing to do with sex, then your desire for it is just one more rift between you.

 

And, btw, most people don’t WANT to divorce. Most people try to avoid it at all costs and it fully breaks their hearts. The end of a marriage is the end of a dream - for both parties. So, when you emphasize over and over about how much you don’t want to divorce, don’t think you’re the Lone Ranger. It really annoys me when people talk that way; as though they’re different and above all the other suckers out there who obviously did want to divorce.

[Rotaglia]

But this sounds like the previous conversations you had before you started posting, have you had any more recent ones?

Sort of but not really. i could make one final push. I could tell her I'm gravely concerned about the state of our marriage but I'm willing to make one final attempt at restoration before I retain counsel.

 

Restoration would mean marriage and/or individual counseling for her; mandatory me-time for her; mandatory time spent as a couple once a month; some sort of plan for addressing each of our sexual needs instead of ignoring them; regular time for one-on-one discussion without excessive triggering, crying, or anger; recognition of her past destructive behavior and a full apology.

 

But what's the use? She will not consent to any of these. She's made it clear she wants/expects me to be happy with the status quo and if I don't like it I should walk.

 

I'm reading the The Divorce Remedy: Seven Simple Step to Save Your Marriage by Michelle Weiner Davis.

[Rotaglia]

And, btw, most people don’t WANT to divorce. Most people try to avoid it at all costs and it fully breaks their hearts. The end of a marriage is the end of a dream - for both parties. So, when you emphasize over and over about how much you don’t want to divorce, don’t think you’re the Lone Ranger. It really annoys me when people talk that way; as though they’re different and above all the other suckers out there who obviously did want to divorce.

Actually, I think my wife does want a divorce—she has all but said so but she probably thinks that makes her a bad person (it doesn’t). She probably feels guilty, how could she do that to poor ol' Rotaglia (BTW, that's not my real name, LOL), etc.

[elaine567]

Actually, I think my wife does want a divorce—she has all but said so

or

She's made it clear she wants/expects me to be happy with the status quo and if I don't like it I should walk.

 

Which one is it? She wants a divorce or she is happy with the status quo?

[BaileyB]

Restoration would mean marriage and/or individual counseling for her; mandatory me-time for her; mandatory time spent as a couple once a month; some sort of plan for addressing each of our sexual needs instead of ignoring them; regular time for one-on-one discussion without excessive triggering, crying, or anger; recognition of her past destructive behavior and a full apology?

 

You are not asking for much...

 

Seriously, if these are your expectations, given the current state of your marriage it’s probably fair to say that you are likely to be very disappointed.

 

It goes without saying, but you are not going to get far if you start placing demands and tell her what she’s should do. Where in this discussion do you ask her how she feels, and what she wants, and what you could do to improve the situation...

[bathtub-row]

Actually, I think my wife does want a divorce—she has all but said so but she probably thinks that makes her a bad person (it doesn’t). She probably feels guilty, how could she do that to poor ol' Rotaglia (BTW, that's not my real name, LOL), etc.

 

No. If she wanted a divorce, your lawyer would be talking to her lawyer. Anyway, you completely missed my point.

[elaine567]

You are not asking for much...

... you are not going to get far if you start placing demands and tell her what she’s should do.

 

Rotaglia, you are coming from a place of weakness here.

You cannot demand anything really.

You demand sex, she says no.

You demand an apology, she says no.

You demand she sees a counsellor she says no. (Why would she? She is not the one with the problem...)

You say you are going to walk, she says fine...

 

She has something you want, and she isn't willing to give it.

She, along with the fact she is the main breadwinner, holds most of the cards.

[Rotaglia]

She might have behaved dreadfully, but you have allowed her to behave like that.

You keep saying that like "to allow" is actual marital verb. I did nothing to "allow" anything. She unilaterally terminated our sex life and then put up an invisible-but-very-real wall against discussing it.

[Crazelnut]

Do not approach her with your list of demands. Jeez, man! You're putting the cart before the horse. Just insist on marriage counseling. Period. Tell her that refusal to go signifies that she has chosen to end the marriage. Then let her choose and follow through with her choice -- go see either a lawyer o a MC. There is nothing left for you to do.

[Rotaglia]

I think it's up to me to repair this marriage by myself if necessary. I think my wife would like to fix it too but she is too tired/overworked to put in the energy now so I think since I'm the one who is more engaged with the mend-it-don't-end-it effort I will undertake a project of self-improvement as a way of either 1) strengthening our marriage or 2) strengthening myself for life post-divorce if ultimately necessary.

 

MIchelle Weiner Davis writes a lot about improving oneself in her book The Divorce Remedy and I intend to follow her plan.

 

I would be fully justified in seeing an attorney and filing for divorce but just because it is justified does not mean it's the right thing for me, for our daughter, and ultimately for the two of us. In some ways, becoming a better person is harder than ending a marriage, but I think it's the wiser course.

[zouz71]

From my personnel experience :

 

The more you talk about intimacy the less you get

 

 

U loose her respect and become a doormat in two cases

Abusing her is one and the other one being a coward .

 

 

These are golden rules

[zouz71]

He has to flip the table

 

Nash ,

You leave the house and let her fit in her place as a mother , she should take her responsibility ,

Then. After that you say what you want from her , be it a divorce or agreed separation , first insist on brining her back to her home , if she is a good mother she won't refuse , if she he has other plans it will be obvious ,

 

 

imo don't discuss it , enforce it ,don't speak , pack and leave , u say your mil is 2miles away they will take care of kids ,

Don't be coward just do it , stay anywhere else and request to visit ur kids

If you have a basement it is a piece of cake ,

[zouz71]

The normal place of a woman is her home with her kids , when she leaves and offload house to man , roles are reversed

[elaine567]

You leave the house and let her fit in her place as a mother , she should take her responsibility ,

Then. After that you say what you want from her , be it a divorce or agreed separation , first insist on brining her back to her home , if she is a good mother she won't refuse , if she he has other plans it will be obvious

 

The OP makes no money to speak of as "a part-time musician" so if she returns to the home as a f/t mother they will be living on benefits...

[elaine567]

His wife will be ordered to pay spousal and child support.

Yes if they were to divorce, but zous is suggesting the OP forces his wife to come home to look after the kids, to put her back in her place. As she is the main/only breadwinner, I guess money would be extremely tight..

[Rotaglia]

He could then earn some money by working while the kids are at school.

 

OP - are you opposed to working during the daytime?

 

What skills do you have to work?

I'd be willing to work during the daytime if it becomes necessary due to separation/divorce or maybe just for its own sake. Perhaps it's time. I'm definitely employable as I have an advanced degree, plenty of useful skills, and I'm pleasant to be around. I'm not even 50 years old yet, so ageism is not a huge concern yet in terms of getting hired.

 

The nice thing about working the way I currently work is enables me to care for our home, our kids, and my mother-in-law with dementia who lives in a distant state. I can still do all those things with a full-time job, but it would be harder. Also, I like having the time to perform/rehearse/practice as a musician but that can be sacrificed or backburnered if needed.

 

I recognize that my current lifestyle depends on my wife's income but it's something we agreed on. Of course we can alter the agreement but that ought to be a mutual decision.

[Rotaglia]

You can’t fix a marriage by yourself - that’s not possible.

According to Michelle Weiner Davis, that is exactly what she recommends. It starts with you and eventually spreads to your spouse. I am reading her book The Divorce Remedy and I am hopeful her program will help us.

[Rotaglia]

Maybe my wife responds better to actions than to words. For the last few weeks, I haven't broached the subject of our relationship. I'll let her bring it up if she wants to.

 

Meanwhile, I will work on myself, start preparing to re-enter the workplace, move on with my life in other areas while continuing to serve my family. I will be kind to my wife, have fun with her, and see what develops. I will not act in haste.

 

No sex, talk of sex, or putting on of the moves until further notice.

[giotto]

You keep saying that like "to allow" is actual marital verb. I did nothing to "allow" anything. She unilaterally terminated our sex life and then put up an invisible-but-very-real wall against discussing it.

 

ok, you have enabled her... by not stating your "problem" early on. If I do something which I know it will damage the marriage for 18 months and my wife doesn't say anything at all, I will assume she is fine with it or she doesn't care... and I would be shocked if 312 weeks later, she'd say... "why are you doing this"? You let it go for too long. She is not coming back...

[Rotaglia]

ok, you have enabled her... by not stating your "problem" early on. If I do something which I know it will damage the marriage for 18 months and my wife doesn't say anything at all, I will assume she is fine with it or she doesn't care... and I would be shocked if 312 weeks later, she'd say... "why are you doing this"? You let it go for too long. She is not coming back...

You're excusing her abusive, marriage-destroying, selfish, toxic marital conduct and blaming the victim for it. I certainly hope you don't counsel domestic violence victims for a living. Whose side are you on, anyway?

[BaileyB]

Meanwhile, I will work on myself, start preparing to re-enter the workplace, move on with my life in other areas while continuing to serve my family. I will be kind to my wife, have fun with her, and see what develops. I will not act in haste.

 

All good things to do, whether it improves your marriage or not. You will need a job if you do divorce.

[anika99]

OP I haven't read the entire thread but I've read most of it and I really do believe your wife's biggest problem is menopause. I've seen some posters say it can't be that because other women can have sex through menopause or because at age 56 she should be through it already. But menopause is an individual experience and it's different for everyone. I belong to an online menopause support group that has thousands of women and total loss of sex drive and/or painful sex has got to be the most common topic there.

 

Also many women are just entering menopause at age 56, check some of them haven't even started menopause at that age. The average age for menopause is 52 but plenty of women don't reach menopause for several years past that. Menopause doesn't end. Once a woman goes into menopause she is there for life. Some women will stop having symptoms after a few years and some won't, however if a woman has suffered vaginal atrophy that can be very hard to reverse.

 

And it's not just the waning sex drive that wreaks havoc on relationships. For some women their entire emotional state and mental state is in turmoil. They are depressed, anxious, full of worry, grieving their youth, hating who they see in the mirror. They are sometimes suffering with a myriad of new health issues that aren't usually considered to be menopause symptoms but they were triggered by menopause nonetheless. Things like allergies, skin problems, digestion disorders, etc. Menopausal women often struggle with feeling numb towards not only their spouse, but sometimes their entire family. In my online group I've lost track of how many times I've seen married women say they sometimes wish their spouse would just disappear and they don't say that in a " I'm a bitch and proud of it" kind of way. They are actually deeply saddened that they feel that way and some are actually afraid that their spouse will leave them if they don't snap out of it, but they can't snap out of it.

 

What I noticed throughout your thread is that you don't seem to know much about your wife's menopause and how she is experiencing it. Do you know how long she has been in menopause? What exactly her symptoms are? How she feels about hormone replacement therapy? Has she tried hormone replacement therapy? In other words, has this experience been something that she can talk to you about? Can she discuss her menopause woes with you or does she feel like she has to keep her female problems to herself because you are not interested in hearing about such things? There are a few men who participate on the online support group I belong to because they are trying to understand what their wives are going through. You also might want to consider at least reading up on it.