Maybe a classic OW post, but... do I wait?

[BaileyB]

Not exclusively -- my 80-year-old mother is still pulling the same BS on me, complete with 'reverse psychology / trying to rewrite the script'.

A 'bonus' for her is that now when she gets called out, she claims age-related memory loss/mental impairment. .

 

Agreed. Lol.

 

For me, it was my grandparents... and when they would become frustrated because I would not do what they wanted, they would complain to my dad... and then he would call and say “Why won’t you do what they are asking. They are getting older and all they want is...”

 

Manipulation comes in many forms...

[elaine567]

But your 80yo mother is old and no doubt a bit infirm, she needs a bit of pity. It's not easy being old.

 

Grown up, adult, healthy men cheating on their wives... um no.

[BaileyB]

But your 80yo mother is old and no doubt a bit infirm, she needs a bit of pity. It's not easy being old.

 

Grown up, adult, healthy men cheating on their wives... um no.

 

Um no. Him complaints would fall on deaf ears, if he was complaining to me...

[Ronni_W]

It has been my mom's 'relationship MO' -- her psychological reaction and pattern of behaviour -- since before I was born; her present age has nothing to do with it.

(I ignore it when she uses manipulative tactics to try to get me to do something for her; I don't ignore her otherwise.)

 

It doesn't condone adultery; a bigger point is that, while adulterers do engage in manipulative patterns of behaviour, we are also vulnerable to it in other types of relationships;

and it can be very difficult to properly and fully extricate oneself...so, I understand what a struggle it is for Gb83.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Ronni_W
Clarification

[Gb83]

The funny thing about me is that I do not (at this point, anyhow) want a stable relationship. I’ll take drama over feeling trapped w someone like my ex with whom there was no physical chemistry, no passionate emotion, and I came second to him choosing new projects to work on and he was almost mechanical in some interactions. So it’s very clear to me that I wouldn’t choose this person for a stable relationship but that doesn’t totally equate to me not wanting to interact w him. Guess that means I’m not the most normal person.

[Ronni_W]

Guess that means I’m not the most normal person.

Well...as long as you have good insight into your situation, and are in charge of your side, and know the positives that you're getting out of it, and are willing to put up with all the negatives -

- which, it sounds like all are true for you -- then, who cares so much about if or not other people see you as 'normal' or 'not so normal'? .

 

I guess I would just offer to not get taken in by his manipulative tactics, and self-pity, and trying to play on your wants and needs for his own selfish gains.

[BaileyB]

The funny thing about me is that I do not (at this point, anyhow) want a stable relationship. I’ll take drama over feeling trapped w someone like my ex with whom there was no physical chemistry, no passionate emotion, and I came second to him choosing new projects to work on and he was almost mechanical in some interactions. So it’s very clear to me that I wouldn’t choose this person for a stable relationship but that doesn’t totally equate to me not wanting to interact w him.

 

And thus, the reason why you have involved yourself in an extramarital affair. You wanted drama, you’ve got drama.

[DKT3]

Article

 

I am not suggesting all MM are sociopaths but many of them do sure show a lot of the signs.

 

This is what I was about to say. If you read or watch videos of known sociopaths like Aileen Wuornos you will find comments that are similar to these.

[mark clemson]

I will note that the "pity play" is only one of about 25 characteristics mentioned in that article. So, not diagnostic in and of itself. Also from what I understand sociopathy is a spectrum so actually most if not all people will show SOME tendencies some of the time. Having an occasional pity-party doesn't make someone a cold-blooded killer.

 

Nonetheless, Gb83, I think you're setting yourself up for failure if you go for the high-drama type. A good, lasting, stable marriage isn't going to be constant drama IMO. And a "drama king" type of guy probably isn't going to want to stick around to help changing diapers for too long either.

 

I think you're problem is you've been stuck with a particular H that gives you virtually no attention due to his personality/obsession with his career attempts. I definitely get why you'd want better than that, but don't let the pendulum swing TOO far the other way, IMO.

 

Not disagreeing with your decision to keep MM at arm's length - he doesn't sound good, even if he's not (I hope) a full-fledged sociopath.

[DKT3]

There is alot to what mark said. Its rarely spoken about here but there are alot of people out there attracted to drama and can never really be comfortable long term in a healthy stable relationship. Many, I believe are posting on this site actively.

[elaine567]

I will note that the "pity play" is only one of about 25 characteristics mentioned in that article. So, not diagnostic in and of itself. Also from what I understand sociopathy is a spectrum so actually most if not all people will show SOME tendencies some of the time. Having an occasional pity-party doesn't make someone a cold-blooded killer.

 

All psychopaths are sociopaths, but not all sociopaths are psychopaths. The cold blooded killer is usually a psychopath.

 

Research shows sociopaths, narcissists and "lonely hearts" are the those most likely to cheat.

[mark clemson]

@DKT3 - thanks!

 

@elaine567 - good point. That was really hyperbole. I probably should have said "full-fledged" sociopath or similar. Thanks!

[bathtub-row]

The only truth MM wrote to you was that no one ends up happy with him. There must be a reason for that. As the others have said, his comments were designed to evoke emotion from you. To make you want to rise to the occasion and show him that you can be the one that can end up happy with him.

 

That comment about how little he must mean to you was so lame. Married men know good and well that any woman with any sense wouldn’t waste their time on a MM, nor would they find their lies believable, so they fall back on comments like that hoping a vulnerable woman will fall for it.

 

My xMM once said to me, “You’re with me because I’m safe.” It took a long time for me to understand what he meant but it’s the same as what you said — I was just out of a bad relationship and, on a subconscious level, I didn’t want to be in a serious relationship. Still, I view being with MM as the worst mistake of my life. Take it for whatever it’s worth.

[Gb83]

The only truth MM wrote to you was that no one ends up happy with him. There must be a reason for that. As the others have said, his comments were designed to evoke emotion from you. To make you want to rise to the occasion and show him that you can be the one that can end up happy with him.

 

That comment about how little he must mean to you was so lame. Married men know good and well that any woman with any sense wouldn’t waste their time on a MM, nor would they find their lies believable, so they fall back on comments like that hoping a vulnerable woman will fall for it.

 

My xMM once said to me, “You’re with me because I’m safe.” It took a long time for me to understand what he meant but it’s the same as what you said — I was just out of a bad relationship and, on a subconscious level, I didn’t want to be in a serious relationship. Still, I view being with MM as the worst mistake of my life. Take it for whatever it’s worth.

Thanks. I hear you. Tempting physically, but how can that be worth the aftermath frustration?! I am really amused when he says that he gets jealous thinking about me being with someone else and hates the idea. Ummm...?!!

[bathtub-row]

I’m guessing it’s more than just physically where this guy is tempting. He’s hitting you on all levels — friendship, attentiveness, etc. They really know how to draw a woman in because they have to due to their marital status.

[Gb83]

Right, but whether it’s a “concerted effort” on his part or not, we truly do click in a way that isn’t anything like how I ever felt w my husband even in “infatuation stage.” It’s made me so concerned that I’d spend rest of life w my husband feeling so lacking in passion (as we’ve never even had 1 passionate kiss or good sexual encounter) that I’ll be miserable

[BaileyB]

Right, but whether it’s a “concerted effort” on his part or not, we truly do click in a way that isn’t anything like how I ever felt w my husband even in “infatuation stage.” It’s made me so concerned that I’d spend rest of life w my husband feeling so lacking in passion (as we’ve never even had 1 passionate kiss or good sexual encounter) that I’ll be miserable

 

There is a third option... divorce your husband and find a single guy, with whom you click on a way that isn’t anything like how you ever felt with your husband. Don’t tell me they are not out there, that this MM is the only one, because that’s not true... besides, what he is attempting to sell you right now is pure fantasy.

 

Your choices are not only stay in a bad marriage or have an affair with a MM. just saying...

[bathtub-row]

Right, but whether it’s a “concerted effort” on his part or not, we truly do click in a way that isn’t anything like how I ever felt w my husband even in “infatuation stage.” It’s made me so concerned that I’d spend rest of life w my husband feeling so lacking in passion (as we’ve never even had 1 passionate kiss or good sexual encounter) that I’ll be miserable

 

I felt the same way about xMM. That deep connection is very shocking and hard to find. But I’ve noticed that most OW say the same thing. I’m not sure what that’s about but it’s a path to destruction, no matter how perfect it seems. Do what you want but go in with your eyes wide open. This will end in disaster - for you.

[Gb83]

There is a third option... divorce your husband and find a single guy, with whom you click on a way that isn’t anything like how you ever felt with your husband. Don’t tell me they are not out there, that this MM is the only one, because that’s not true... besides, what he is attempting to sell you right now is pure fantasy.

 

Your choices are not only stay in a bad marriage or have an affair with a MM. just saying...

 

Agree, the divorce and finding a new person eventually seems like the best option , but I’m trying to determine if it’s a better one than Going NC with the MM and trying to somehow improve things w my husband despite how long he’s been saying he wants a divorce now. I feel if things were actually reasonably satisfying w my husband then I never would’ve been interested in the MM in any capacity in first place. And it really is rough to be w someone w whom you have no physical passion or chemistry, in addition to spending little time together bc they’re a workaholic on projects that don’t even make any $.

[elaine567]

... And it really is rough to be w someone w whom you have no physical passion or chemistry, in addition to spending little time together bc they’re a workaholic on projects that don’t even make any $.

 

Sometimes too much water has just flowed under that bridge...

[Mrs._December]

The funny thing about me is that I do not (at this point, anyhow) want a stable relationship. I’ll take drama over feeling trapped w someone like my ex with whom there was no physical chemistry, no passionate emotion, and I came second to him choosing new projects to work on and he was almost mechanical in some interactions. So it’s very clear to me that I wouldn’t choose this person for a stable relationship but that doesn’t totally equate to me not wanting to interact w him. Guess that means I’m not the most normal person.

And that, dear lady, is the sound of you lowering the bar in order to keep a married lying cheater in your life any way you can.

[Gb83]

And that, dear lady, is the sound of you lowering the bar in order to keep a married lying cheater in your life any way you can.

 

I don’t want to feel this way. I don’t know how to change what I feel. I also don’t know how to make myself think, logically, that I should just try to reconcile with my husband. Even if he’s going to be long distance by his choosing for 5 years and we’ve never had a decent sex life. All people have negatives.

[bathtub-row]

I don’t understand why you’re focusing on reconciling with your husband. At best, I’d stay with him for several months after the baby is born then I’d end it. He’s not going to change and if he makes you that unhappy, you don’t need to stay with him.

[Gb83]

I donÂ’t understand why youÂ’re focusing on reconciling with your husband. At best, IÂ’d stay with him for several months after the baby is born then IÂ’d end it. HeÂ’s not going to change and if he makes you that unhappy, you donÂ’t need to stay with him.

 

Because he doesnÂ’t have some red flag/absolute dealbreaker. I just feel so depressed and trapped

[BaileyB]

Because he doesnÂ’t have some red flag/absolute dealbreaker. I just feel so depressed and trapped

 

Do you need him to be an alcoholic, or an abuser, or a cheater, or financially bankrupt for you to leave the marriage... is not, the fact that you are desperately unhappy in the relationship reason enough? I mean, what about standing up for your own mental health and well being? If not only for you, for your child...