Any MMs in the house? How did you compartmentalize after dDay?

[Overtaxed]

I'm a man, I understand men. Simply put men dont tend to get emotionally attached. I know your vested interests prevent you from seeing this because you want to believe that it's the case for you. Maybe it isn't, but most likely it is.

 

Here is the thing, men cant be honest because it will hinder their chances.

 

So if you mm said hey lets have lots of meaningless sex, lets put your marriage at risk and at the end of if all I'm going to just walk away. Would you? of course not, yet that's what happens most of the time.

 

This, this, exactly this. As much as I defame cheating men (especially) here, there's so much truth in this that just needs to be absorbed to understand men. Men, at least speaking personally and from those than I know, don't want to lie to women for sex. We really don't. But the 2nd paragraph above captures it so succinctly and I'm embarrassed I haven't said it before. They lie because it's the only thing that works. And this is coming from someone who's never had an A, only "normal" relationships, in an A, just take this and multiply it by 1000.

 

I can guess that almost no women would be up for the offer proposed above. But that is, in fact, what a lot of men want in an A. In fact, I can go so far as to say every single A I know about IRL (from cheating men telling me about it) is pretty much exactly that. Sure, I know these men would love to walk up to a woman (preferably a new one each night) and say "wanna f**k" and leave it at that. That exactly what I wanted to back when I was dating, at least with some large percentage of the women I dated back then.

 

It's a "dream" relationship for a lot of men. So much so, that some men pay to have that relationship (prostitutes). Which is probably the clearest possible example that "men like this and women don't", men pay for the experience of having a ONS or meaningless sex and women are paid for it. Another great place to see this is in the sexual habits of gay men vs gay women. They could not be more different, gay men are, as a group, very promiscuous to the point that a lot of "straight porn fantasy" is actually based on how gay men enjoy sex (glory holes, hitchhiker for a BJ, etc). And one of the most common problems sexually for gay women is "lesbian bed death" (lack of sex).

 

I've had sex with a lot of women. I got emotionally attached to almost none of them, including some that I had years long relationships with. Yes, if I spent a long time dating someone, I probably did at least didn't hate them. But it certainly didn't mean I loved them and at least a few times, it didn't even mean I liked them. The 2 things are totally divorced in my mind and always have been. And add in a wife you're already in love with/had kids with/etc? Chances are so slim that it would be laughable if it didn't destroy so many lives. Somewhere between 2-4% of A's lead to a lasting marriage. If you're entering an A for love, you are looking in the wrong place, that's just not what they are for or about in almost all cases.

[Naivewomen]

Again, neither of u had an extramarital affair. It was an emotional one on top of the sex. That's the part you are not grasping. If it were meaningless sex after being caught several times by the spouse and being told to never contact me again. Why oh why did he return for a solid year. For more meaningless sex knowing all well his life was at risk. The women he desired was at home with his children and he was continuing with this affair. Meaningless sex??? Well then I must be damn good at meaningless sex then!!! Men equally fall into the same limerence stages as women. U refuse to accept this aspect. Read up on limerance. It happens to both genders!!!! U simply dont carry on with AP after being outed for more meaningless sex. Sorry if we disagree here.

[DKT3]

It's hard for women to grasp the male mind. Ask 100 men if they have had sex with women that they didn't even "like" I promise 70-80 will say yes. Ask 100 men if they have allowed a woman to believe his feelings for her are deeper then they actually are 60-70 will say yes.

 

Men are largely emotionally unavailable, the unavailable men even more so.

[Naivewomen]

https://livingwithlimerence.com/2018/08/12/what-can-spouses-do/

[DKT3]

There has never been a male obgyn who has had a baby, does that mean they are unsuitable to deliver them?

 

I'm not saying all these men are sociopaths who run around lying to and misleading women (through some are) what I'm saying is his emotional investment is much lower, while remaining attached to thier wives. When affairs end they aren't really suppressing their feelings, they were simply not as deep.

 

You ask why they continue after being caught? The same reason why alcoholics continue to drink after they've lost everything.? They dont love alcohol they are addicted to alcohol. Again, some men are emotionally attached, very few but some are. The odds that you got a purple unicorn is slim. Love vs addiction/habit.

 

Btw, you do realize limerence isnt love or really emotional attachment, its addiction.

Edited January 20, 2019 by DKT3

[Naivewomen]

I agree addicted because we were BOTH equally addicted to how we made each other feel. Inside and outside of the bedroom!! And it was more than how we felt about our partners. I'm not saying it was real love but I'm saying it wasnt meaningless that's for sure. And it was WAY more than a friendship feel. Its intoxicating and I'm sure both of your wives will agree. The feeling is intoxicating more than Husbands can ever make us feel. Almost like an out of body experience!!! Very addictive indeed!!! This is why cheating is rampant it's not the sex it's the intoxication of the deed!!

[DKT3]

I agree addicted because we were BOTH equally addicted to how we made each other feel. Inside and outside of the bedroom!! And it was more than how we felt about our partners. I'm not saying it was real love but I'm saying it wasnt meaningless that's for sure. And it was WAY more than a friendship feel. Its intoxicating and I'm sure both of your wives will agree. The feeling is intoxicating more than Husbands can ever make us feel. Almost like an out of body experience!!! Very addictive indeed!!! This is why cheating is rampant it's not the sex it's the intoxication of the deed!!

 

My wifes affair was very different from most I've read here. The OM was single and very much wanted her to run off with him. My wife was actually more of a MM only offering crumbs that he gobbled up happily. They also didn't have much sex, that it mattered to me, once was too many. She didn't struggle moving on from him, because like most mm she never detached from me. In the fact, I traveled a ton, we were the ones having affair sex in romantic places, she went on bike ride with that dude and dinner theater's.

[Overtaxed]

If it were meaningless sex after being caught several times by the spouse and being told to never contact me again. Why oh why did he return for a solid year. For more meaningless sex knowing all well his life was at risk. The women he desired was at home with his children and he was continuing with this affair. Meaningless sex??? Well then I must be damn good at meaningless sex then!!! Men equally fall into the same limerence stages as women. U refuse to accept this aspect. Read up on limerance. It happens to both genders!!!! U simply dont carry on with AP after being outed for more meaningless sex.

 

He enjoys sex a lot. Probably a lot more than you do. It's an extremely potent motivator for men (and some women) that I just do not believe that most women will ever understand. He returned for a year because it's easier to have sex with someone you've already had sex with than have sex with someone new. More meaningless sex because sex doesn't need meaning to be good for some men. In fact, for at least some men, it's better if there's no meaning and it's "just sex". The woman he desired was at home AND wherever you were. He desired 2 women. For just about any guy here, that's a pretty easy to relate to feeling. No, I don't want to lose my wife, but yes, I'd like to sleep with that girl over there. That's a common thing that I feel very often.

 

Men do fall into limerence. No, not equally to women. The statistics show this pretty easily when you look at the reasons given for affairs. Far more women have A's to replace a husband than men. And far more men have affairs for "more" than women do. I know quite a few guys who have had/are having affairs. Are they in limerence? If you count "being infatuated with the sex from the OW" then, yeah, they are. But I have literally, never, in my life, heard a MM tell me "I love her" (the AP). I love sleeping with her. Yes, all the time. I love the way she makes me feel. Yes, a few times. But love her? No, never, and almost no guy I know would say that because the next question would be "when are you leaving your W", something that very few (none, in fact) of the men I know having A's are looking to do.

 

I could be wrong. You could have found the one that's different. They are out there. But they are RARE. And here's the thing, every woman in an A like yours also thinks "she found him". 98% of them are dead wrong. But they are all sure they are right, so sure, in fact, that they blow up their lives and their marriage on the "I'm sure" feeling that this isn't just a piece of a** for the OM. Almost all of them are wrong. And it's not just women, men occasionally do this too, but it's a lot rarer.

[Naivewomen]

Neither one of us had anything wrong in our marriages either but neither one of us could avoid the emotional and pshycial connection. Did it go to far absolutely infact it kept getting deeper and deeper emotionally and both of our lives were at risk. Our marriages couldnt survive with another lover on ur mind. It was impossible for both and that's why we ended it. The reality is the reality and it was a chapter in our lives. We will never forget each other. We were grown adults and knew damn well what we got into. This will be something we live with forever and if we both can overcome it and be happy in our marriages well then that's what's meant to be!! But yes my marriage took a deeper hit from this for sure. I alienated my spouses from the heavy addiction I'm not Proud of this at all but I did feel something I never thought possible for another man so I'm beating myself up about it. Rightfully so it's my fault.

[Naivewomen]

Overtaxed I knew we werent going to have a life outside of this affair. But the pshycial and emotional component was a huge component and a huge draw!! That's how it all starts. It's still a connection then u realize all the other s$$t. I dont think neither of us really had much more a reason other than the lure of wanting the experience from the other. It was powerful!

[TooBad]

I'm a man, I understand men. Simply put men dont tend to get emotionally attached..

 

 

 

I resent this type of blanket statement. You might understand 'some' men, but surely not all. Clearly you don't.

[elaine567]

I resent this type of blanket statement. You might understand 'some' men, but surely not all. Clearly you don't.

You are in a different place though, you are the single OM to a MW, you are not the MM.

I guess as you got somewhat "in deep", you share more of the experience of an OW rather than a MM.

[Missedmistress]

He enjoys sex a lot. Probably a lot more than you do. It's an extremely potent motivator for men (and some women) that I just do not believe that most women will ever understand. He returned for a year because it's easier to have sex with someone you've already had sex with than have sex with someone new. More meaningless sex because sex doesn't need meaning to be good for some men. In fact, for at least some men, it's better if there's no meaning and it's "just sex". The woman he desired was at home AND wherever you were. He desired 2 women. For just about any guy here, that's a pretty easy to relate to feeling. No, I don't want to lose my wife, but yes, I'd like to sleep with that girl over there. That's a common thing that I feel very often.

 

Men do fall into limerence. No, not equally to women. The statistics show this pretty easily when you look at the reasons given for affairs. Far more women have A's to replace a husband than men. And far more men have affairs for "more" than women do. I know quite a few guys who have had/are having affairs. Are they in limerence? If you count "being infatuated with the sex from the OW" then, yeah, they are. But I have literally, never, in my life, heard a MM tell me "I love her" (the AP). I love sleeping with her. Yes, all the time. I love the way she makes me feel. Yes, a few times. But love her? No, never, and almost no guy I know would say that because the next question would be "when are you leaving your W", something that very few (none, in fact) of the men I know having A's are looking to do.

.

 

Thanks for your perspective.

 

I do agree, majority of affairs happen for sex and, heck, I had one of those, as in my OP, I was able to drop it and move on like it never happened. It met a need that I had at the time, when it didn't any more, I ended it and moved on. I assume that's what the majority of men feel but need to do a bit of emotional baiting for women to comply, I get that.

 

EAs are different though. In my EA there was literally no option of sex after Dday since it was a LDR (it was only physical anyway 3x during our 15 month A, when we were actually in the same room). Then why the hell did he keep coming back for more after wife of 20 years being in absolute bits after DDay if he didn't have that strong emotional attachment and it was secretly all about sex?

 

I assume none of the men in your friend circle will talk about EAs (because it's not as manly as 'hey look at me I'm f**ing 2 or more women at the same time') and it is entirely possible to love the person and sometimes love the wife and OW at the same time but give up love for other important reasons such as comfort, kids or just not being a ****ty person by ruining someone else's life for good. That doesn't mean the OW/OM was a 'piece of a**' and I assume the emotional fallout is taxing for both sexes.

 

My AP would have left his wife, I couldn't have him do that because he would have lost everything and eventually resent me for that, I saw that. One of us wouldn't have seen their child regularly and that was the bottomline (we live in different continents). So I let him go after a lot of back and forth of confession of feels. 'I'll always love you' etc. Before you say it was all lies, I have known him and his wife for 15 years , we were friends (not proud of this) who made a huge mistake and lost each other. It wasn't some liar I met online who was fooling me.

 

I'm not trying to prove the point that @naivewomen and myself are the exception, maybe we are but I do think this 'love' & 'limerence' or whatever you want to call it happens to men way more often than they care to admit.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Missedmistress

[Missedmistress]

And is it possible that this has now become a repetitive thought pattern for you that has simply become rather hard wired into your brain?

 

So of course you long for the escape because that is how you cope.

 

Thank you both, you're making a good point.

 

It's my coping mechanism to just go 'do my own thing', my escape. People won't care about what they don't know, another misconception I had. (My AP and I were both convinced our partners wouldn't care if they found out, how delusional were we??) But anyway, it's a pattern that unfortunately I grew up with with my parents, all my BFs cheated on me and I cheated on most (bar the first one). I walked in on my first BF making out with a girl, never forget that feeling, yet here i am doing this to someone else. Really, it's messed up.

 

I'm intending on changing that which is why I went to therapy for the first time in my life, I'm being honest with my H now and never planning on another affair again or touching another MM with a ten foot pole (this was my first and last time) whether I stay married or not.

 

As for the marriage, with honesty, comes hard work, I can't just stick my head in the sand any more and just pretend it's all 'fine' when it's not because it's a dangerous thing for me.

[Missedmistress]

@missedmistress. I am in the same boat as you. It takes ALOT of time. He probably will remain in your heart forever but you will be able to put them in a box. We must learn to compartmentalize our feelings for them now. Time to man up!! Lol. That's what I'm trying to do and I am still struggling. My MM has resurfaced after 100 days NC and I was still very sad but on the mend of healing. He just wanted to say hi and tell me he thinks about me every day. Not one day has gone by yet where he hasnt thought about me. So as that's comforting it's still the samething. So we just have to try to reconnect with our spouses and tell them what we need to feel and how we both can nurture our relationships so this never happens again. Our H but now know about our voids and what's missing within ourselves. Hope this helps a little bit.

 

Hugs! It's super hard for sure. MM and I had those exchanges after second Dday and various lengths of NC. I know I didn't gain much from those, 'how are you? thinking of you' type messages. Well I did, short term, but back to square one long-term, which is why I asked him to forget about me and not to contact me again. They can't help us get over them.

 

It's hard when your suffering over this heart break is not legitimate, you cheated and should feel 100% remorse, but you don't. You can't get sympathy anywhere (well I do because I have some good friends) and it lingers between you and your spouse for a long time. They feel it even if they don't want to say it, I'm sure.

[understand50]

This thread may help. Or not....

 

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/576217-there-responsibilities-bs-reconciliation

 

I wish you luck

[mark clemson]

Btw, you do realize limerence isnt love or really emotional attachment, its addiction.

All of the below is in my opinion only:

 

Hope I'm not beating a dead horse here, but I've sensed some moving goalposts and perhaps clarification is helpful?

 

There's "having feelings" vs. "being in love". My strong suspicion is that many APs have feelings for the other AP (although probably there are those that don't). For ONS's this is presumably not the case.

 

"Love" depends on the definition one uses. Consider the following possible ones, some of which are part of "affair fog":

 

-"Love is NRE and sex" (most people probably wouldn't agree, but some might). If you accept this definition, many APs are in love, albeit temporarily.

 

- "Love is limerence" (I believe many people might agree with this, many would not). In this case, many, but certainly not all APs are in love, including some EA APs. Again, normally temporary although limerence can last a few years.

 

- "Love is long-term bonding" (I believe most people would agree "love" ideally should include this; but consider the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" line that get's handed out by MMs/MWs. That takes us back to NRE/limerence.) If this is your definition, most APs presumably never get there, although a rare few do.

 

- "Love is choosing to put the required energy into maintaining a long-term bond as the two individuals change over time". If you only accept this definition, it's reasonable to conclude most APs don't make it, although a rare few do. It's worth pointing out that it appears many married couples never make this goalpost and end up divorcing. And some will indeed make it, but not be able to maintain it over their lifetimes and so end up divorcing in middle age or late in life.

 

I'm sure I haven't covered the full range of possibilities, but I feel it's quite clear the definition one has in mind will have a big impact on whether one agrees that two people "love" or "ever loved" each other.

[Missedmistress]

- "Love is choosing to put the required energy into maintaining a long-term bond as the two individuals change over time". If you only accept this definition, it's reasonable to conclude most APs don't make it, although a rare few do. It's worth pointing out that it appears many married couples never make this goalpost and end up divorcing. And some will indeed make it, but not be able to maintain it over their lifetimes and so end up divorcing in middle age or late in life.

 

Thanks, Mark. Agree with the need for distinction also. I think this last one hits the nail on the head. This is the form of love that most people refer to when they talk about 'love', yet many never experience.

 

e.g. I know I was in love with my AP and he was with me too, but we chose not to put the energy in long-term because of external circumstances, doesn't mean we never loved each other.

[Mike1111]

MissedMistress,

 

 

I'm a MM. You were on my thread last week (Selena / Argentina), but I want to emphasize that -- yes -- many men (me for sure) have deep difficulty getting over the emotional ties (I feel like it's love) with their AP. Easy to "compartmentalize"? Nope. Easy to be with spouse and not daydream about AP? Nope. Ending my relationship with Selena will leave me with deep emotional scars. And scars don't go away. She'll always be with me even though I'll likely never see her again. You sound like a pretty wonderful person, so I imagine your AP misses you like crazy too. The relationship just wasn't meant to be (or so I tell myself) and we have responsibilities to our spouses and owe them the respect to try to make it work. Not sure if we can, but we should try. Good luck to you. I'm in the same boat.

--Mike1111

[40somethingGuy]

I have been reading so much about affairs in the last year and it often comes up that men stay married because 1, comfort/lifestyle 2, they're able to compartmentalize and literally block out their AP after dDay. Is this true or a bunch of BS? BTW, I'm not talking about PA only, strictly after EA where the words, 'I love you' and all those acts of love were present for months/years.

 

I've literally tried EVERYTHING (therapy, mindfulness, meditation, lots of talking & sex with H) and I still don't feel close to my H after my EA and it's been almost a year, I can't block out AP (we're 100% NC for 10 months, I don't even know what is up with him). On the contrary, I had a PA years ago and I had 0 emotional connection afterwards and it was super easy to end, I felt all those things people say you should feel, guilt, disgust towards PA etc. but never longing. Never even thought of him much after, this time it's so different.

 

So, I'm curious, mostly want to hear from MMs, not sure if there are many here, how did you turn that all off and do a 180 back with your wife? I'm really curious, I want to learn.

 

(Please don't tell me I need a divorce, I have brought it up but my H wants to fight for us, not sure why, I honestly don't deserve him. I'm honest with him now and not planning on doing this ever again, I'll pack my bags instead.)

My wife has done all the right things since and I frequently check up on her. No matter what she does she is tainted. What's funny is any slight chance someone flirts with me and she gets very worried and jealous. So funny how offended she would be if I did a tenth of what she did. Some days I am OK and some days I can't stand to look at her. It will always be with me. For the most part we're good now. But I will always be disgusted by her lying and actions. For the life of me I can't understand why your H wants you still.

[Missedmistress]

No matter what she does she is tainted. ...Some days I am OK and some days I can't stand to look at her. It will always be with me. For the most part we're good now. But I will always be disgusted by her lying and actions. For the life of me I can't understand why your H wants you still.

 

People have different thresholds, my H doesn't identify me with my actions, however ****ty they were and chose to stand by me.

 

Sounds like whatever she did it was a dealbreaker for you though...maybe it's a question you need to ask yourself too, why do you still want to be with your wife if you think 'no matter what she does, she is tainted'?

[pepperbird]

op,

have you ever thought about re framing the issue?

 

 

So many times, when I read posts by a ws, it's as if they see themselves giving their bs some sort of a great gift by deciding to stay. It's as if they see themselves as some sort of martyr, throwing themselves on their sword, doomed to forever be in agony. missing the lobe of their life. They've made the magnanimous decision to stay, and look at how hard they are trying!

 

 

Instead of seeing it like that, they could try seeing it this way. Like most humans will do form time to time, they screwed up. that doesn't make them evil or heartless, just flawed. Like me, like we all are.

 

 

 

You've made your choices and now have to live with the fallout, and, no offense intended, you don't give the impression that your marriage is really where you want to be. It's more like, for whatever reason, it's where you feel you need to be, and that's a very different thing.

 

I'm not suggesting you divorce, just that you ask yourself why you are staying. Do you think your husband is happy? If you're honest with yourself, do you think you can make him happy? It doesn't sound like this is a fresh wound for you, yet you still carry it to this extent.

 

 

I can't remember if you said you two were in counseling together or not. If you aren't, I would suggest you start. I also can't remember if you said whether or not your H knows about your affair. If he does, and you haven't been able to convince him to get counseling with you, I would suggest you make it a non-negotiable. It will give him a chance to work through all of this in a safe environment for both of you, which can pay great dividends later on.

 

 

If he doesn't know, please consider telling him. Of course, that's up to you, but in the end, if you want your marriage to work ( and not just be " two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl" , it may be your best and only true option.

 

 

Bets of luck to you. You sound like a smart woman, and I hope you are able to find a path forward that works for you, your husband and family.

[Missedmistress]

op,

have you ever thought about re framing the issue?

 

Thanks Pepperbird, I appreciate the response.

 

No, I don't feel my marriage is where it should be, you're right. I still feel like I need to work on myself before I can really commit to the life I want to live for the rest of my life. I do know I don't want to lie, cheat or mislead anyone any more. Enough of that, this affair and the fallout from it has been a huge eye-opener to me and I've looked into myself deeper than ever before. And I didn't like what I saw, surprise!

 

I ask myself those questions you mention frequently.

 

Do I make him happy? He tells me that my son and I make him happy every day, yet I can't say 'I love you' since the affair had been out. Btw, he knows everything about the affair, but he never brings it up.

 

I do push for MC but he didn't want to go, I went to IC. Though he seems to be open to it lately so we'll try. He had a bad experience before (made them break up).

 

He is terrified of losing me, I'm not trying to be a martyr here but I really don't know how to fix something that might not be fixable, I'm trying. So I settle for good enough and peaceful for now. I do love him (not in love with him) and I never had the intention to leave him for someone else, only for myself. The jury is still out on that one...

[pepperbird]

Don't be too hard on yourself. It really sounds to me like you are doing a lot of heavy lifting and it's not always easy. I always admire people who are able to engage in introspection and really face their worst selves.

 

Actually, while writing that, a question has come to my mind. It sounds like you are putting in a lot of work that really, your husband isn't expecting you to do, yet you are doing it anyway. You are being honest with yourself and that can be one of the hardest things to do. You're even willing to go further and put in more work through counseling, and that may also bring you face to face with the worst parts of yourself.

 

It makes me think that, underneath all the cr@p from the affair, you really do love your husband dearly, way more than you even realize. Quite frankly, it would be easier for you to walk away, and yet you stay and continue the hard work. I could be wrong, but to me, that really says something.

 

Of course, I could be wrong. You may end up deciding divorce is what's right for you, but at least of that happens, you, your husband and kid(s) will know you've really tried hard to make it work. If you end up going your separate ways, that will be a really huge gift to them. They'll know that, even if you couldn't do it, you at least valued them enough to try.

[Missedmistress]

Of course, I could be wrong. You may end up deciding divorce is what's right for you, but at least of that happens, you, your husband and kid(s) will know you've really tried hard to make it work. If you end up going your separate ways, that will be a really huge gift to them. They'll know that, even if you couldn't do it, you at least valued them enough to try.

 

Thank you again, kind Internet stranger. I do feel like I'm working hard on myself, because as you say, it's incredibly difficult work.

 

I don't expect any trophies for this, of course, it was long overdue and I think my H also recognizes that I am trying. That is all he is expecting of me, actually, he knows the rest will come or not, but I feel he deserves this from me for sure.