Do guys really seek emotional intimacy?

[Lotus_Luna]

lt doesn't matter what the rest do or think , only what your own woman feels.

l'd never respect one of that thinking but yeah there's plenty out there.

 

As far as what is intimacy in that sense for guys lotus , for those that like it , it could be anything as varied as women.

Some women think talking about the neighbours dog or their mum or their job or their hair or 2 flies crawling up a wall is intimate and opening up.

 

Some, a rare few , like my gf, want your soul , and then some, and then deeper still.

That would be some guys worst nightmare , but not me l want the same from her.

 

I think I’m a soul person... I have these conversations with people where they bare all. We talk about their biggest fears and failures. The traumas they carry. Because I’m willing to be honest and open, typically they do the same.

 

I don’t waste my time on people who aren’t willing to have stimulating conversation.

 

But I just don’t really know how much give the AP did. I think for him, it was a lot. Maybe for him feeling needed was his connection?

 

We’re all looking for something.

[Els]

What exactly do you mean by emotional intimacy?

 

 

I've found that most of my relationship partners (including H) do seek emotional intimacy, but in a different way. They do want someone to share their hopes and fears and dreams with, and to get to know in that manner. But they express it differently from how women do.

 

 

I think things are rougher for guys in this regard, because they can't really open up to male friends in that manner, and some of their partners might even be judgemental of men who express self-doubt or fear or sadness.

[No_Go]

Absolutely. IME, way more than women.

 

Women often have games and end goals when it comes to relationship stuff. Just read through few stories here - females usually are after something (kids, Da ring, status whatever).

 

Men usually take it one step at a time - i.e. create actual, NOT goal-oriented intimacy. Both physical, and, what naturally happens later, emotional.

[carhill]

What exactly do you mean by emotional intimacy?

IMO, each person has their own definition if they've reflected on it. Mine revolves mainly around proactive interest, empathy and a balanced exchange of what you refer to below.

 

 

I've found that most of my relationship partners (including H) do seek emotional intimacy, but in a different way. They do want someone to share their hopes and fears and dreams with, and to get to know in that manner. But they express it differently from how women do.

 

Yes, and the expression varies from man to man. Some men are more 'masculine' in their expression, some more 'feminine', with the perception of that range being the purview of the woman in the relationship with the man.

 

 

I think things are rougher for guys in this regard, because they can't really open up to male friends in that manner, and some of their partners might even be judgemental of men who express self-doubt or fear or sadness.

 

Again, varies by man but the differences in emotional style definitely inhibited male friendships for many years, especially when young, and also was unattractive to women of my generation who preferred more John Wayne'esque stoic man. A rock.

 

IME, women do like sweet, caring empathetic sharing men, as gay friends. Bangin in the sheets, not really. However, they do want their 'rock' to have a few cracks and that's what keeps them in the game. Want. The guys who figure that out, especially young, are the masters of the game.

 

I still see it today pushing 60 with women my own age, long after the breeding imperative has gone. It's programming. I don't expect it to change. It is what it is.

[DKT3]

Haha, we just had a really long thread covering this subject.

 

Some men do, not many. Men grow up conditioned to rely on themselves emotionally, then this gets reinforced by many women who want a mans man, and tend to shy away from overly sensitive guys.

 

Intimacy is not necessarily connected to emotions for men. I have had very intimate none sexual experiences with women and had absolutely no emotional connection.

 

I believe this is one area where women simply don't understand men, and is often confused because it just doesn't compute for them.

 

Bottom line is men are very good at figuring out what women want from them, and then giving it to them, doesn't matter if its genuine or not.

[carhill]

 

Bottom line is men are very good at figuring out what women want from them, and then giving it to them, doesn't matter if its genuine or not.

 

Yeah, it got to that point but I still have the nagging reality of lying which bugged me so I got out of the game. I do continue to use the experience gained to turn off MW's if/when they get too interested or close. It's easy to turn on the empathetic charm, something which comes naturally and authentically, and they plunge their finger down their throat to gag and poof, attraction gone. Love it. May have even saved a couple M's along the way, IDK. I've got another exorcism scheduled for the holidays. I started the pre-op prep with 'How are you feeling? Is there something you'd like to share?' Honesty can be quite the medicine.

 

--------------------

 

OP, here's a tip.... if you want to discern one aspect of the emotional style of a guy you're contemplating, watch his text style. If he texts in brief, clipped passages and responses, he's more of a man's man. If he rambles, and especially trending to details and feelings, he's more, er, emotional. Up to you how you perceive that. Compare to your own style for clues. Can you boil something down regarding a relationship to a couple words? Probably not!

[Lotus_Luna]

Haha, we just had a really long thread covering this subject.

 

Some men do, not many. Men grow up conditioned to rely on themselves emotionally, then this gets reinforced by many women who want a mans man, and tend to shy away from overly sensitive guys.

 

Intimacy is not necessarily connected to emotions for men. I have had very intimate none sexual experiences with women and had absolutely no emotional connection.

 

I believe this is one area where women simply don't understand men, and is often confused because it just doesn't compute for them.

 

Bottom line is men are very good at figuring out what women want from them, and then giving it to them, doesn't matter if its genuine or not.

 

I have to politely disagree. I’ve had too many conversations with men who had no intent of bedding me talk openly about their need for connection. What that intimacy looks like may not be the same as women, but it’s there.

[carhill]

Most healthy humans, being social animals, like to feel we matter in the realm of humanity. In some way, varying by person, we seek validation and care from other humans.

 

What has always puzzled me is the chain nature of this process with some people, where the person seeks, and gains, validation and intimacy from another then, rather than returning that energy to the giver, gives it to someone else who doesn't return it, and on and on. I've been caught up in those deals a few times, even from my spouse when married. I find the whole thing puzzling, as I invariably valued demonstrations of care and intimacy and returned that energy rather than absorbing it and directing it elsewhere.

 

Remember, OP, brief clipped passages. That's your sign of a man's man. They don't ponder the dragon's existence, rather slay it and move on to rescue their damsel in distress. Little talk, lots of action, honey I'm here aren't I and you get my paycheck every week, of course I love you. Now make me a sammich and bring me a beer

[Lotus_Luna]

Most healthy humans, being social animals, like to feel we matter in the realm of humanity. In some way, varying by person, we seek validation and care from other humans.

 

What has always puzzled me is the chain nature of this process with some people, where the person seeks, and gains, validation and intimacy from another then, rather than returning that energy to the giver, gives it to someone else who doesn't return it, and on and on. I've been caught up in those deals a few times, even from my spouse when married. I find the whole thing puzzling, as I invariably valued demonstrations of care and intimacy and returned that energy rather than absorbing it and directing it elsewhere.

 

Remember, OP, brief clipped passages. That's your sign of a man's man. They don't ponder the dragon's existence, rather slay it and move on to rescue their damsel in distress. Little talk, lots of action, honey I'm here aren't I and you get my paycheck every week, of course I love you. Now make me a sammich and bring me a beer

 

Let’s call these men by what they are:

 

Anxiously Attached (needy)

 

Avoidant Attached (man’s man, won’t allow themselves to open up)

 

The idea is somewhere in the middle. They have a healthy need to connect emotionally and open up with trust and normal boundaries.

[DKT3]

I have to politely disagree. I’ve had too many conversations with men who had no intent of bedding me talk openly about their need for connection. What that intimacy looks like may not be the same as women, but it’s there.

 

Its easy for men to open up to women that they have no interest in sexually. From age 11 into my mid twenties one of my best friends was the girl/woman who grow up next door. I have shared things with her that I didn't share with my wife until much later in life. I honestly had a very intimate non sexual relationship with her for about 15 years. At some point my wife became annoyed so it was scaled back until the connection was broken.

[preraph]

They just reported a new study today on CBS radio news that said the study found women have far more empathy than men overall. So that pretty much accounts for why some don't feel as a partner, they owe their spouse a friendly ear, which really SUCKS.

[carhill]

IMO, women clearly lead in expressions of empathy. Society has empowered them to be free in such expressions.

 

However, as another recent thread pointed up, men express empathy in different ways, in that case the man picking up on a GF's fear and jumping to defend themselves in a threat situation, then, once the threat had passed, he went to comfort her, even though he was apparently injured from the altercation.

 

Of course the thread focused on her negative feelings about BF's violence in defense of them rather than his empathy for his GF. Heh, why am I not surprised.

[DKT3]

IMO, women clearly lead in expressions of empathy. Society has empowered them to be free in such expressions.

 

However, as another recent thread pointed up, men express empathy in different ways, in that case the man picking up on a GF's fear and jumping to defend themselves in a threat situation, then, once the threat had passed, he went to comfort her, even though he was apparently injured from the altercation.

 

Of course the thread focused on her negative feelings about BF's violence in defense of them rather than his empathy for his GF. Heh, why am I not surprised.

 

Excellent point. Most men are fixers, while most women dont want or need us to fix their problems only to be a safe place to vent. Which brings up another point. For many if not most women non sexual intimacy and emotional connections consist of share ones personal feelings and experiences both good and bad. For many men this is a conflict, because it's more natural for us to protect the women in our lives. We like them comfortable and safe so we eat our issues and problems.

[Lotus_Luna]

Excellent point. Most men are fixers, while most women dont want or need us to fix their problems only to be a safe place to vent. Which brings up another point. For many if not most women non sexual intimacy and emotional connections consist of share ones personal feelings and experiences both good and bad. For many men this is a conflict, because it's more natural for us to protect the women in our lives. We like them comfortable and safe so we eat our issues and problems.

 

That’s the stress of society telling men they can’t be vulnerable.

 

I know for myself, hearing a man say he’s struggling is okay. I don’t lack respect for him. It’s okay to be human.

 

I don’t really know how men want women safe. My husband clearly doesn’t give a **** about it. My AP was the closest I had to that... but it was a source of conflict because he was powerless to protect me.

[DKT3]

That’s the stress of society telling men they can’t be vulnerable.

 

I know for myself, hearing a man say he’s struggling is okay. I don’t lack respect for him. It’s okay to be human.

 

I don’t really know how men want women safe. My husband clearly doesn’t give a **** about it. My AP was the closest I had to that... but it was a source of conflict because he was powerless to protect me.

 

...just think about how safe his actual wife is with him being involved with you...how could you honestly expect better from him then she gets?

 

You say your husband dont give a s...what would his wife think about his efforts?

Edited November 14, 2018 by DKT3

[Lotus_Luna]

...just think about how safe his actual wife is with him being involved with you...how could you honestly expect better from him then she gets?

 

You say your husband dont give a s...what would his wife think about his efforts?

 

She and I aren’t in competition if you’re trying to play that.

 

I’ve been in their home. He keeps them physically safe. Emotionally, they’re separate entities for the most part. Separate rooms, seperate schedules....

 

I don’t think anyone would be impressed with my husband. Without going into details, his record isn’t good.

[carhill]

So, apparently, you've seen multiple sides of the spectrum of emotional intimacy seeking from men.

 

Something to watch though, is historical style. If customarily attracted to stoic, unemotional men, yeah that open caring guy might be some cool strange but that's because he's different, not better or worse. IME with women, both married and not, they tend to stick with their historical style in love, though sure will wander for some strange for stimulation and/or refuge.

 

I've been with MW's such as you're apparently describing yourself. They cling to me like a life preserver until their ship comes in, then toss me into the sea to float away. They weren't really after that emotional 'connection' rather needed validation and care and love until a bigger better deal came along which matched their traditional style of love.

 

I usually look at FOO. If the woman's father is distant and unemotional, that's how she defines love at the core level. Very rarely am wrong. Got one now whose father I know well. Typical male of his generation. He's a fixer, not interested in listening to or caring about people's problems for what they are. His kid is liking some strange right now but she'll be back with the distant largely unaffectionate guy she's been with since a teen. She can't help it. It's love and home to her. If for some reason they divorce, dollars to donuts she'd get with another guy exactly the same, even if she'll complain often about it, as she does now. Complaining doesn't mean she doesn't like it and isn't attracted to it. Took me a long time to learn that about women. Complaining is just a sympathy and attention suck. They don't want to really do anything about it. Now I accept that and leave them be.

 

I recall, when entering MC and my exW and I were interviewed separately, the MC later commented he was surprised we'd ever gotten married, our FOO's and love styles were so different. That's a marked problem for a guy like myself who seeks emotional intimacy and is empathetic to a wide variety of love styles. It's easy to get bamboozled, mainly due to my own ignorance . Don't blame exW at all. She was executing her programming. It wasn't purposeful or abusive, just natural. The guy she's been with since we divorced is a lot like her dad, tends to bark orders and present a gruff exterior, to me rude, but she apparently loves that. The world continues to turn.

[Lotus_Luna]

My Father was very emotionally attentive as a child.

 

My Mother wasn’t.

 

I chose a partner who I didn’t think would abandon me. A few years into the marriage his personality disorder and mental problems started to eclipse him. I was never crazy about him, he just felt safe. I was hapoybwith safe. I didn’t want to feel deeply in love or lust. Felt like a bad way to choose a life partner. My husband is emotionally expressive, he cries, he FEELS... but because of the BPD he’s angry and explosive and has no boundaries with me...which progressively got worse.

 

I’ve had several offers throughout the years.... I was never interested in any of them.

 

AP was someone I felt different with from the beginning. I knew him and tried to keep distance because I found something magnetic. He isn’t replaceable to me. And the way he communicates emotions isn’t fluffy, but the expressions are heartfelt. It’s noy always as soft as I’d like (perhaps plays on my relationship with my mom) but I feel deeply settled by it.

 

 

Granted, I’m roughly half your age. My generation communicates differently and my community values sensitivity and gentleness.

[carhill]

Sounds like you're about the same age as the son of the lady in my story, interestingly who presents a lot like I do and has apparently had similar problems with women that I did at his age. His mother is always describing him as sweet and sensitive and I see that with him since I've known him since he was five or so. So, apparently, the women in his demographic aren't all up in his butt because he likes connecting emotionally. I've seen the depression over that kind of social shunning set in with him and do worry sometimes. Don't know how things go with his dad and him, they just kinda hang out. He seems kinda lost lately. I remember that well.

 

Thanks for sharing. You came across as older in your posts. Yeah, I am pretty up there. Very different life. Wouldn't recommend it. It is what it is.

[Lotus_Luna]

Sounds like you're about the same age as the son of the lady in my story, interestingly who presents a lot like I do and has apparently had similar problems with women that I did at his age. His mother is always describing him as sweet and sensitive and I see that with him since I've known him since he was five or so. So, apparently, the women in his demographic aren't all up in his butt because he likes connecting emotionally. I've seen the depression over that kind of social shunning set in with him and do worry sometimes. Don't know how things go with his dad and him, they just kinda hang out. He seems kinda lost lately. I remember that well.

 

Thanks for sharing. You came across as older in your posts. Yeah, I am pretty up there. Very different life. Wouldn't recommend it. It is what it is.

 

Keep in mind, I have a young family. When/if I decide to find a new partner sensitive is high on my list. AP is highly sensitive but not good at communicating. Best to present him with space to process then communicate it later.

 

I would like a person who is empathic, respectful and sensitive. How he expresses that will be different from me being male. But the ‘man’s man’ ‘lone wolf’ types are boring to me... as are the sweet talkers.

[snowcones]

Haha, we just had a really long thread covering this subject.

 

Some men do, not many. Men grow up conditioned to rely on themselves emotionally, then this gets reinforced by many women who want a mans man, and tend to shy away from overly sensitive guys.

 

Intimacy is not necessarily connected to emotions for men. I have had very intimate none sexual experiences with women and had absolutely no emotional connection.

 

I believe this is one area where women simply don't understand men, and is often confused because it just doesn't compute for them.

 

Bottom line is men are very good at figuring out what women want from them, and then giving it to them, doesn't matter if its genuine or not.

 

 

Yes, this. My experience is that most men are not conditioned or wired to be emotional. The savvy ones learn how to fake it to get women, but in time, savvy women will begin to see that it's not genuine and the man will stop being so good at it, and things eventually go downhill. In some cases, the guy gets better and better at pretending and the woman is none the wiser and is really happy. That's the man we all wish for.

[Eternal Sunshine]

In my experience yes, they do but they don't want to offer emotional support in return.

 

In all my past relationships, even really serious ones, men have told me plenty about their hopes, fears, lives, problems. When I tried to do the same, they were bored, checked out and could care less. I always found that I had to do 90% of emotional support.

 

They also showed no empathy when I was ill (and I rarely am) and just general annoyance when I was sad or anxious. What they expected me is to be light, fun, sexy, and upbeat all the time, unless they wanted to talk about their problems when I had to become their therapist.

 

In terms of activities, it was always what they wanted to do, unless I really pushed them to do something I wanted. Then they would reluctantly agree but be so cranky that it would ruin the experience.

 

For me, there is no point of having a relationship if that's what it's like. I figure that it's a mix of my personality (I tend to want to make others happy even at the expense of completely neglecting myself) and general bad luck in who I was meeting.

[Chilli]

But too women put way way too much emphasis on guys and conditioning with this sort of thing.

You know , just read through this forum or any other, a lotta guys just don't giva fk for mushyness,

It's just not in many guys nature .

 

Me l don't have to do that , being male l've been around millions of guys my whole life and l don't hear the version they give to women, l hear the truth and guess what, l have 6 brothers too.

Many guys just want their women to be done with her whatever and couldn;t care less for getting all down and emotional, so they can just get the fk on with things .

l'm even like that myself sometimes.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Chilli

[elaine567]

In my experience, yes they do but they don't want to offer emotional support in return..

 

^^^^this^^^^

This is a common female complaint.

Many women spend their lives making sure "he" is all right, whether "he" be father, son, husband, boss, friend... and when she needs emotional sport, he is nowhere to be found, he laughs at or minimises her concerns, or he is actually annoyed/confrontational/aggressive...

 

I guess it is the real reason many, many marriages flounder.

[somanymistakes]

Ain't nothin' true about all men.

 

You want a guy who seeks emotional intimacy, look for one. They exist.

 

If it really matters to you, don't settle for less. And definitely don't marry a guy who doesn't GAF and expect that marriage will magically change him.