Handshake greeting and goodbye on 1st date

[MaleIntuition]

Its only first date and you are already worrying about the Madonna/wh*re complex... Really????

 

Of course. When you establish a pattern early on, it can be hard to break out of that pattern. The more he falls for her; the harder it will be for him to escalate - because of fear of messing something up, and she will wind up dumping him because she doesn’t feel enough of a “spark”.

 

A handshake is a terrible pattern, because it’s as far away from intimacy as it gets.

[Versacehottie]

I get what you are saying, but the problem with the no-rush strategy is that you will easily fall into the looking-for-the-perfect-moment-trap, and that moment may never happen. Furthermore, the more we like someone, the more perfect the moment has to be. Early on, it’s simply less at stake, and therefore easier to be bold. It might sound counterintuitive, but at the end of the day it’s about avoiding the Madonna/whore-complex and moving the relationship towards a romantic one; and it all starts with a hug ?.

 

oh i totally agree with this above^^^. But i get the feeling that both you and I aren't hug/kiss/flirtatious contact aversive, right? OP, i think is worried about getting stuck and it manifests itself in nerves to touch even when he is having a great time (and his date is too). I have hugged and kissed on cheek at greeting on a first date (already met the person before) and that takes the pressure off.

 

A girl will help the guy along if she is into him and is ready for it (most of them will at least). I have to say a couple of times I have been on a date where the guy wasn't bold enough or ONLY used what physical touch he was getting as a measure of my interest (and failed to be charismatic, charming, confident, etc) and what could have been interest on my end was like wah-wah, no way. Like the kind of guy who ASKS if he can kiss you. 99% of the time that happens when the guy has done absolutely no real lead up to that moment. If he has and is bold enough, just doing it is fine and she will be receptive. Basically I think you and I are both on the same page that the pussyfooting around gets you nowhere--especially if you are hyper focused on getting a kiss.

 

I agree with the others Max that she seems like she likes you, all so far is going well and her acceptance of another date is what you need to use as a measure of her interest in you. Maybe hug and a kiss on cheek right when you start the next date. More confidence always helps. Good luck

[Chilli]

You're overthinking it. She wants to see you again, smiled a lot, go for it.

 

Don't rush or force physical stuff. I never want to kiss on the first date. Hand on my back will creep me out. Especially if I'm comfortable with a handshake. I don't get why touchy freely is so crucial when you've just met. A few dates in, sure.

 

 

Yeah pretty well agree with ya and that's really refreshing to read.

Funny, back in the day l was never all touchy feely or rush, not really what l was getting at but these things are so hard to explain.

And that alone pretty well says it all because it's not something we're suppose to explain and analyze to death or force, it's suppose to be the most natural thing in the world.

 

But l did want to touch her, just a bit, if l was interested, just to let her know and just to cross that line for myself too , so to speak, but it didn't have to be much .

 

And even these days it still surprises me when l read women saying just cuff her back and guide her and things like that.

Because funny , l never did that in my life. l always thought something like that is sorta leading her around or pushing her, or like saying l thought she's so useless she couldn't just get herself through a doorway or whatever it might be.

Funny , my ex w always hated me doing something like that too, hated it .

So l suppose it's the old different folks bla bla thing.

[Gretchen12]

I really struggle with touch on dates and have for years. It's just hard for me to act natural and reach out and touch someone.

 

So some of the problem is you. You actually need the woman to guide you along. That's not always going to happen. You said you wanted to get a hug. How about you think about giving one instead of getting one.

 

I assume you can hug friends? If this is only a problem on dates, you are just afraid of being repulsive, which is silly, she already agreed to go out with you.

 

As for her hand sticking out, there are plenty of ways to respond to that. These are what some men have done when I offered a handshake:

 

- shake hand, then hug.

- take hand and pull me in hard for a kiss on the mouth.

- totally ignore hand, and hug/kiss.

- make face like "you gotta be kidding me", and hug/kiss instead.

- take hand and kiss it.

- shake hand but scratch my palm with finger during the handshake.

- shake hand warmly with a sincere smile and emotion in his eyes.

 

lastly, once in a while a guy shakes my hand with a very limp hand and I see in his eyes a look of disappointment. That's the guy I probably won't see again.

 

All different personalities. Everyone just act according to who they are.

[ThorntonMelon]

When in doubt you can always ask.

 

I'm a pretty blunt guy - I'd just text and say "I had a great time with you, was a little thrown by the handshake goodnight, didn't want to assume your interest but I would love to get to know you better."

 

You'll get a response.

[Juha]

I get what you are saying, but the problem with the no-rush strategy is that you will easily fall into the looking-for-the-perfect-moment-trap, and that moment may never happen. Furthermore, the more we like someone, the more perfect the moment has to be. Early on, it’s simply less at stake, and therefore easier to be bold. It might sound counterintuitive, but at the end of the day it’s about avoiding the Madonna/whore-complex and moving the relationship towards a romantic one; and it all starts with a hug ?.

 

This is money right here... Handshake is not a very good sign at all, if she really liked and was interested in you she would have given you a hug goodbye.

 

The handshake could say she has had issues being too physical too early in the past and has now over compensated the other way.

 

She could be rigid, as she told you she would like to go out again, then gave you specific day and time.

[Juha]

{snip} A girl will help the guy along if she is into him and is ready for it (most of them will at least). I have to say a couple of times I have been on a date where the guy wasn't bold enough or ONLY used what physical touch he was getting as a measure of my interest (and failed to be charismatic, charming, confident, etc) and what could have been interest on my end was like wah-wah, no way. Like the kind of guy who ASKS if he can kiss you. 99% of the time that happens when the guy has done absolutely no real lead up to that moment. If he has and is bold enough, just doing it is fine and she will be receptive. Basically I think you and I are both on the same page that the pussyfooting around gets you nowhere--especially if you are hyper focused on getting a kiss.

 

I agree with the others Max that she seems like she likes you, all so far is going well and her acceptance of another date is what you need to use as a measure of her interest in you. Maybe hug and a kiss on cheek right when you start the next date. More confidence always helps. Good luck

 

100% correct if a woman likes you she will make it easy for you and help you, if she does not like you that much help will be minimal or if she is damaged/rigid from previous relationships/dates she will hold back.

 

Have to find out if she has true interest in you and not getting a hug goodnight is a bad sign.

Edited November 13, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[carhill]

No about covers it.

 

I'm no lethario or male model and I'd either get a hug or a kiss (cheek) on the first meet from ladies, meaning that's what they proactively did. Handshake, meh, next.

[lavenderandvelvet]

Don't do this with someone you are not in a relationship with. It's 1800s advice and modern women have different boundaries. Women do NOT need to be GUIDED when they are walking. It's too intimate to put your hand on the small of a woman's back if you have just met. This is not good advice.

 

I think it is a nice gesture - depending on who it is from.

 

I am not bothered as long as they keep their hand pretty high. Upper to mid back is a great way to indicate attraction, without going too far. You can test the waters with the reaction you get by guiding her upper back or shoulders.

 

If I like you I’ll lean in. If not, then shirk away.

 

Different strokes for different folks. This has been done to me, and I didn't find it too intimate. I guess in my generation, it's what gentlemen do...but softly, a light touch, nothing about threatening personal space. IMO modern women shouldn't be so shut down about a man trying to be a man that likes to take the lead. I feel sorry for guys these days...it's no wonder men are confused in what is right, wrong, and whatever in between.

 

I prefer men taking the lead as well and acting like a gentleman. I was out with a male friend today, and he pulls out chairs and opens doors. The amount increases depending on his level of interest, but it is his nature. Shows good home training and it is appreciated.

[Chilli]

Yeah l did wonder about the hand shake too , it could be either.

Could be no we're not hugging l'm not interested or it could be well we'll see next time but for now this is it.

Option 3 haha,because you didn't just go hug her , she didn't know what else the fk to do.

[greymatter]

I think it is a nice gesture - depending on who it is from.

 

I am not bothered as long as they keep their hand pretty high. Upper to mid back is a great way to indicate attraction, without going too far. You can test the waters with the reaction you get by guiding her upper back or shoulders.

 

If I like you I’ll lean in. If not, then shirk away.

 

 

 

I prefer men taking the lead as well and acting like a gentleman. I was out with a male friend today, and he pulls out chairs and opens doors. The amount increases depending on his level of interest, but it is his nature. Shows good home training and it is appreciated.

 

The OP isn’t asking how or whether to be chivalrous. That’s not what this thread is about. He is trying to interpret the handshake in the context of a date that otherwise seemed to indicate she was interested and she obviously is, she wants to see him again (he is seeing the handshake as negative for whatever reason). My significant other opens my car door and other doors for me and has excellent manners but that has nothing to do with this thread, same as your similarly irrelevant comments about chivalry.

 

My point to the OP is that he should follow the signals his date is giving him if he likes her and wants to see her again, and give her the benefit of the doubt (she seems to like him). In the moment she shook his hand, not a big deal or a dealbreaker unless it is for him. It may simply be to that she is in no rush for intimate touching on a first date. The OP is getting all kinds of advice ranging from “guiding her”’ with his hand on her back to blowing her off because she has to be a super rigid person due to the fact that she shook his hand (that’s quite a stretch in the absence of other info about her). OP just go out with her again, let things develop a bit and get to know her. See if you like spending time with her and if the two of you are attracted to each other. You’ll have the answer soon enough.

[guest569]

Yes definitely go for it and see where it leads! You did the right thing by following her lead of a handshake. I don't think she would have responded well if you tried to touch or kiss her. But maybe it will be more appropriate on the next date to get more physical.

 

Honestly I'm a lil standoffish initially but love getting physical later on when we know each other and things progress. So this does not mean that she is frigid, rigid, cold etc.

 

It's crazy that people say you should put your hands all over her.. I get that sometimes this works.. When the conditions are right, romantic and relaxed setting, and both parties are feeling it.

Personally I just need some time to think about it.

[greymatter]

I pretty much agree smiley.

 

To the OP, I do have to say that you seem to think you are entitled to physical contact given your “what can I do to at least get a hug?...” comment in the original post. It honestly sounds a bit desperate. Maybe you are giving off a vibe that caused her to keep you at arm’s length. You are not owed a hug just because someone agrees to a date with you. Slow down and really try to take in who the person is that you are trying to get to know.

[smackie9]

I completely agree that it's confusing for men, especially when given such advice, by women no less, to take every opportunity to intimately touch a stranger. Not sure what generation you belong to but it's very out of date advice. That's just my opinion, of course. The OP and other men will likely follow your advice, sadly, to touch a woman who is new to them at every opportunity, rather than having it be an organic thing that happens between two people who are actually attracted to one another and take the time to find that out.

Look if the signals are right, then the appropriate action is right. I'm talking about a date where there's a lot of good interaction, closeness. Of course if a woman is closed off or it's a first meeting at some coffee shop, there shouldn't be any touching at all, not even a hug for that matter.

 

 

 

The OP is looking amp things up, and wants to know what signal could there be to give him the opportunity to take appropriate action....hell we have so many women on here b^&%$*# about how a guy just won't make a move and wonder what's wrong with her or him.

 

 

 

So I'm on the men's side....so many women on here are so hot to criticize a man that wants to be a man and show his interest but gets shot down for doing so. I think they should go somewhere else for advice TBH...this always becomes an argument of "Oh no I wouldn't like that, Oh that's too soon, Oh you just met, etc" Every situation is different and the OP is just going to have to try different things to see what works and what doesn't.

[max3732]

I pretty much agree smiley.

 

To the OP, I do have to say that you seem to think you are entitled to physical contact given your “what can I do to at least get a hug?...” comment in the original post. It honestly sounds a bit desperate. Maybe you are giving off a vibe that caused her to keep you at arm’s length. You are not owed a hug just because someone agrees to a date with you. Slow down and really try to take in who the person is that you are trying to get to know.

 

My problem is that when I go on dates I treat the woman just like a friend and have trouble become more than just a friend and getting stuck in the friend zone. This just happened to me recently and has happened multiple times where I get "I like you a lot and want to spend time with you, but just as a friend".

 

Before meeting her I went on dates with 2 other women and both of them greeted me with a hug. Every other date I've been on it's been the same thing. A lot of women also give me a kiss on the cheek when we first meet so I was just a bit taken back by seeing this huge smile and excitement in her voice and then seeing her stick her hand out.

[mortensorchid]

Speaking as a woman who's been out on more internet dates than I can count anymore, if the man does not do a few things then I am certain this is the one and only encounter:

 

1) Choosing the location - If he just says "You pick the location, I have no preferences" that's a bad sign. It means that he is letting you as the woman take the lead when he should be.

 

2) 1st 5 minutes - If there is any hostility or strangeness when we first set eyes on each other, this will not go well.

 

3) Ending walk out - You are walking out of the meeting place. If he doesn't walk you to your car all the way, he's not interested. I have had guys stop halfway there, shake hands and say "Well good luck" and walk away. I will never hear a word from them again.

 

4) Ending ending - If he does walk you to your car he's showing that he has courtesy enough to do that. If he just says "Good bye" that's the end. If he shakes hands, he is being courteous enough, but he's not truly interested in you, he's just being polite. If he hugs you, then yes he had a good time and maybe he kind of likes you.

 

5) 48 hours - If you haven't heard from him within 48 hours, you will never hear from him again. He might send a text the next day or an hour or two later saying "I had a very nice time thank you". If the text does not contain a direct question (I would like to see you again what's a good time/date for you? for example) then he's just being polite once again. And eventually it will just fade away.

 

As a man? Well, I don't pretend to understand everything that a man can and does feel. But you shook her hand at the car and you indicated to her that you have this courtesy. If you like her, call her ASAP and say you would like to see her again. Don't let the case get cold.

[greymatter]

My problem is that when I go on dates I treat the woman just like a friend and have trouble become more than just a friend and getting stuck in the friend zone. This just happened to me recently and has happened multiple times where I get "I like you a lot and want to spend time with you, but just as a friend".

 

Before meeting her I went on dates with 2 other women and both of them greeted me with a hug. Every other date I've been on it's been the same thing. A lot of women also give me a kiss on the cheek when we first meet so I was just a bit taken back by seeing this huge smile and excitement in her voice and then seeing her stick her hand out.

 

Max, don't worry, I don't think it's anything about how the date went or what you did or didn't do. When there is attraction, it can quickly develop from what might seem like friend-only behavior to something passionate. The ones who turned into friends just didn't feel attracted, but it's just part of dating, not everyone is going to be a match. I don't believe it's due to some failure on your part to make physical contact. It's just not that simple.

 

I'm basing all of my statements on my recent dating experience. In my current relationship, the first meeting ended with a handshake. I wasn't sure if he was into me. He took things slowly (I haven't always done the same with new dating partners). Once we kissed (not until the 4th date! It just didn't happen before that) it became really clear he was totally into me and it has been amazing ever since. BUT - it only worked out because there was mutual interest and I liked him on enough levels to keep seeing him, and then things really took off. I mean, I REALLY liked him. It wouldn't have occurred to me to cut him off early because I was thrilled to meet someone like him. I found out later (on date 4) he thought I wasn't into him. But I suspected and hoped that he liked me more than a friend.

 

The way that physical touch has evolved has been very different with each of the guys I've gone out with. You have noticed the same with the women you've dated. A hug at the end of the date doesn't necessarily lead to additional dates.

 

You said that you always end up treating women like friends. In what way? The smile and excitement that you got from her sound promising. Have you followed up with her? Been in touch with her? Expressed excitement yourself at seeing her again? What has the communication been since the date?

[max3732]

Max, don't worry, I don't think it's anything about how the date went or what you did or didn't do. When there is attraction, it can quickly develop from what might seem like friend-only behavior to something passionate. The ones who turned into friends just didn't feel attracted, but it's just part of dating, not everyone is going to be a match. I don't believe it's due to some failure on your part to make physical contact. It's just not that simple.

 

I'm basing all of my statements on my recent dating experience. In my current relationship, the first meeting ended with a handshake. I wasn't sure if he was into me. He took things slowly (I haven't always done the same with new dating partners). Once we kissed (not until the 4th date! It just didn't happen before that) it became really clear he was totally into me and it has been amazing ever since. BUT - it only worked out because there was mutual interest and I liked him on enough levels to keep seeing him, and then things really took off. I mean, I REALLY liked him. It wouldn't have occurred to me to cut him off early because I was thrilled to meet someone like him. I found out later (on date 4) he thought I wasn't into him. But I suspected and hoped that he liked me more than a friend.

 

The way that physical touch has evolved has been very different with each of the guys I've gone out with. You have noticed the same with the women you've dated. A hug at the end of the date doesn't necessarily lead to additional dates.

 

You said that you always end up treating women like friends. In what way? The smile and excitement that you got from her sound promising. Have you followed up with her? Been in touch with her? Expressed excitement yourself at seeing her again? What has the communication been since the date?

 

We are going out this Sunday. Another thing that's strange is I sent her a text the next day letting her know I had a great time and referenced a story she told saying it was really interesting. Then I didn't get anything else from her until I sent another message confirming the time on Sunday. So I'm a little taken back she hasn't sent more by text, but maybe she's just more comfortable in person.

 

On another note I have a date on Saturday with someone I met in person and am trying to setup another online date with someone I've been chatting with. I was enjoying our chat, but I like to move it off line. Hopefully she'll agree to meet in person, possibly this weekend also.

 

What I'm hoping is that having 3 possibilities will take some of the pressure off each one and I'll also get more experience and just be more comfortable around attractive women in general.

[lavenderandvelvet]

The OP isn’t asking how or whether to be chivalrous. That’s not what this thread is about. He is trying to interpret the handshake in the context of a date that otherwise seemed to indicate she was interested and she obviously is, she wants to see him again (he is seeing the handshake as negative for whatever reason). My significant other opens my car door and other doors for me and has excellent manners but that has nothing to do with this thread, same as your similarly irrelevant comments about chivalry.

 

My point to the OP is that he should follow the signals his date is giving him if he likes her and wants to see her again, and give her the benefit of the doubt (she seems to like him). In the moment she shook his hand, not a big deal or a dealbreaker unless it is for him. It may simply be to that she is in no rush for intimate touching on a first date. The OP is getting all kinds of advice ranging from “guiding her”’ with his hand on her back to blowing her off because she has to be a super rigid person due to the fact that she shook his hand (that’s quite a stretch in the absence of other info about her). OP just go out with her again, let things develop a bit and get to know her. See if you like spending time with her and if the two of you are attracted to each other. You’ll have the answer soon enough.

 

I think that it ia a two wasy street and you need to initiate a little bit of comtact to put out feelers. The hand on the back is a great tester physical contact. Door opening also gives you an opportunity to offer your arm or whatever. You have to create opportunities for physical contact. And show your date it is not just friendly.

 

This doesn’t mean pickup artist territory, just small things.

[Logo]

I wouldn't worry about looking for cues or reading her body language or anything.

 

On the second date, just wave hi. And when you part, wave goodbye.

 

 

Let her initiate or come to you.

 

She'll come crawling or walk away. Either way. It'll be a win-win for you.

 

Who needs to be with someone who shakes hands at the end of a date after things have gone so well, as you describe?

[Logo]

We are going out this Sunday. Another thing that's strange is I sent her a text the next day letting her know I had a great time and referenced a story she told saying it was really interesting. Then I didn't get anything else from her until I sent another message confirming the time on Sunday.

 

 

She sounds like a real *charmer*

[Logo]

Speaking as a woman who's been out on more internet dates than I can count anymore, if the man does not do a few things then I am certain this is the one and only encounter:

 

1) Choosing the location - If he just says "You pick the location, I have no preferences" that's a bad sign. It means that he is letting you as the woman take the lead when he should be.

 

 

I think feminists and the rest of the women need to have a huddle and decide if they want men to see women as equals, as passive followers or otherwise.

 

 

 

And once the man takes the lead early on, what's the woman going to do later on? Throw a hissy fit when the man doesn't let her lead him by the nose?

[guest569]

I think feminists and the rest of the women need to have a huddle and decide if they want men to see women as equals, as passive followers or otherwise.

 

 

 

And once the man takes the lead early on, what's the woman going to do later on? Throw a hissy fit when the man doesn't let her lead him by the nose?

 

*rounds up all of the women in the world and all feminists *

 

*huddles*

 

*agrees to focus on more pressing issues than men having to schedule dates or not*

[Juha]

Good that you are having a 2nd date with the handshake woman, also good that you have other dates lined up.

 

I am going to go out on a limb and say that once you go on these dates that you will not care much about handshake woman. You may have another good date with handshake woman but am going to guess she will once again be distant.

 

You will go out with the other women and will guess they show you they are happy to be out with you and liking you.

 

The handshake woman will be an afterthought once you go out with women who like being with you and actually showing it...

[guest569]

I’m not sure that she isn’t showing interest at this point. But I thought the follow up text sounded a bit try hard. Why text to say “that story we just talked about on the date we just went on was interesting.”