Mr. Lucky Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 I love this thread, it's given my quite a few laughs over the last week or so. As have some of the other threads scattered around the place where some of the 'wiser' more experienced members attack a new joiner who's thought they might get some interesting insights here. They're "attacking" what you've done and your casual deflection of any responsibility or need for genuine remorse. And the more "experienced members" don't confuse smug condescension with interesting insights... Mr. Lucky 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Haru-no-yuki Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) And the more "experienced members" don't confuse smug condescension with interesting insights... Mr. Lucky Who's condescending whom? I think you'll find I've never personally attacked anyone on this thread or anywhere else on this forum. In fact in life in general I don't personally attack anyone - even though I'm more than capable of holding my own if need be. On the other hand, just in this thread alone there are a number of great examples of personal attacks on me. I'll summarise a few (my comments below the relevant quote): Post 5: Amethyst68: Your sense of entitlement just screams from your post. [my comment: many things can be lost in a simple internet post – don’t read into things so deeply. Maybe I do have a sense of entitlement, maybe I don’t. It’s hard to say from a simple forum post.] Post 7: MidwestUSA: Your level of entitlement is astounding. And sad. [my comment: many things can be lost in a simple internet post – don’t read into things so deeply. Maybe I do have a sense of entitlement, maybe I don’t. It’s hard to say from a simple forum post.] Post 9: Carhill: OP, do you think you can control how your spouse loves you? That she should love you by your rules of love? How's that working out in your M? [my comment: I don’t think I said anywhere I control how my spouse loves me. No idea where this comment came from.] Post 13: Mardelis: Does that turn on any lightbulbs for you? [my comment: unnecessary personalisation. If you want to ask this type of question why not just write “is that clearer” or something else more neutral?] Post 30: pepperbird: Besides, judging form your posts, you have a really skewed notion of what love is anyway. [my comment: many things can be lost in a simple internet post – don’t read into things so deeply. Maybe I do have a skewed notion of love, maybe I don’t. It’s hard to say from a simple forum post.] Post 41: Wildflower201: You sound like my former MM and the father of my son. It sickens me. [my comment: total unnecessary attack.] Edited October 14, 2018 by Haru-no-yuki Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Who's condescending whom? I think you'll find I've never personally attacked anyone on this thread or anywhere else on this forum. In fact in life in general I don't personally attack anyone - even though I'm more than capable of holding my own if need be. On the other hand, just in this thread alone there are a number of great examples of personal attacks on me. I'll summarise a few (my comments below the relevant quote): Post 5: Amethyst68: Your sense of entitlement just screams from your post. [my comment: many things can be lost in a simple internet post – don’t read into things so deeply. Maybe I do have a sense of entitlement, maybe I don’t. It’s hard to say from a simple forum post.] Post 7: MidwestUSA: Your level of entitlement is astounding. And sad. [my comment: many things can be lost in a simple internet post – don’t read into things so deeply. Maybe I do have a sense of entitlement, maybe I don’t. It’s hard to say from a simple forum post.] Post 9: Carhill: OP, do you think you can control how your spouse loves you? That she should love you by your rules of love? How's that working out in your M? [my comment: I don’t think I said anywhere I control how my spouse loves me. No idea where this comment came from.] Post 13: Mardelis: Does that turn on any lightbulbs for you? [my comment: unnecessary personalisation. If you want to ask this type of question why not just write “is that clearer” or something else more neutral?] Post 30: pepperbird: Besides, judging form your posts, you have a really skewed notion of what love is anyway. [my comment: many things can be lost in a simple internet post – don’t read into things so deeply. Maybe I do have a skewed notion of love, maybe I don’t. It’s hard to say from a simple forum post.] Post 41: Wildflower201: You sound like my former MM and the father of my son. It sickens me. [my comment: total unnecessary attack.] Wow. You have no concept of the hypocrisy of your post- and that's actually really coming through in what you write. These aren't "attacks" they are comments. Personally, i find it really disingenuous that someone can go through life engaging in actions that hurt a lot of other people.and when someone calls you on it, you start complaining that you have been "attacked". Sir, I would suggest that you really think about that. The reason so many came down on your isn't because of them...it's because of you. Your own words. and as for me having a skewed view of love, well, I can say for 100 percent that my husband will never have to go through what you've done to the wife you say you "love". 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 On the other hand, just in this thread alone there are a number of great examples of personal attacks on me. I'll summarise a few (my comments below the relevant quote): Post 5: Amethyst68: Your sense of entitlement just screams from your post. [my comment: many things can be lost in a simple internet post – don’t read into things so deeply. Maybe I do have a sense of entitlement, maybe I don’t. It’s hard to say from a simple forum post.] Post 7: MidwestUSA: Your level of entitlement is astounding. And sad. [my comment: many things can be lost in a simple internet post – don’t read into things so deeply. Maybe I do have a sense of entitlement, maybe I don’t. It’s hard to say from a simple forum post.] Post 9: Carhill: OP, do you think you can control how your spouse loves you? That she should love you by your rules of love? How's that working out in your M? [my comment: I don’t think I said anywhere I control how my spouse loves me. No idea where this comment came from.] Post 13: Mardelis: Does that turn on any lightbulbs for you? [my comment: unnecessary personalisation. If you want to ask this type of question why not just write “is that clearer” or something else more neutral?] Post 30: pepperbird: Besides, judging form your posts, you have a really skewed notion of what love is anyway. [my comment: many things can be lost in a simple internet post – don’t read into things so deeply. Maybe I do have a skewed notion of love, maybe I don’t. It’s hard to say from a simple forum post.] Post 41: Wildflower201: You sound like my former MM and the father of my son. It sickens me. [my comment: total unnecessary attack.] And you claim not to have a thin skin? Personally, i find it really disingenuous that someone can go through life engaging in actions that hurt a lot of other people.and when someone calls you on it, you start complaining that you have been "attacked". Amen... Mr. Lucky 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Haru-no-yuki Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 What's the point of an infidelity forum if it's just going to consist of people telling the poster that they are a terrible person etc... Seems pointless. Yeah I don't a have a thin skin. I was just trying to put across my point. Seems like a lot of people replying to my thread have their own unresolved issues they need to deal with. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 What's the point of an infidelity forum if it's just going to consist of people telling the poster that they are a terrible person etc... Seems pointless. The purpose of this infidelity forum is to allow people to share the lessons they've learned, often from either side of the same missteps and mistakes you've made. Difference is, they're usually further down the road in the experience. The sad thing is, some new posters full of their own hubris aren't in a position to listen... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Wildflower201 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) Your words sickened me. I don't know you personally. You asked is it possible to love two women, and I just don't believe you love or loved either woman. Cheating hurts on both sides. Truly loving someone...you wouldn't put them through that. Your words seem to come from a place of entitlement. You have said yourself that you lack empathy. Loving someone like that is heartwrenching no matter which position you hold in the person's life. If you in fact lack empathy, you wouldn't be able to accurately assess the level of damage you've done. You saying both women are fine, is probably very untrue. A former mistress who has now become a legitimate partner knows how things go when a cheater is found out. She would know that if she doesn't quickly get over it, she will end up left behind. That could be why it seems as though your marriage has recovered so quickly. I'd be angry, yeah, but not shocked. She knows what you're capable of as far as that is concerned. I asked this earlier but you didn't answer my question, probably because my response offended you, for which I apologise. Again, why does it matter to you at this point if you loved them both? Edited October 14, 2018 by Wildflower201 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Haru-no-yuki Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 I'll come up with a reply later, just about to get on the motorbike with the wife for the daily commute. Maybe I'm just lucky in that my wife is pretty easy going. She's already told me a few time before that she doesn't care what I do as long as I don't bring any problems home. And before anyone jumps in and suggest she doesn't have confidence etc... She's very beautiful, very smart and educated and very high EQ Link to post Share on other sites
Starswillshine Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I remember the days after DDay when I (as the BS) poured myself in the marriage. Making sure my husband would want to stay with me. And would pick me. I cannot imagine how your W feels after you left her for another Woman and then when she left you, you run back to your wife? I dont know your wife. And we are all different, but I remember those days moved passed me. And each and every day a rage built up in me. And I got tired of being this great wife to a husband who crapped on me. I got mad at myself for being so weak to try to be so perfect when HE should be proving he was worthy. He did like you, lavish trips. Exotic vacations. Oh, it was a great escape. But in the middle of the night, I laid there awake, mad. Seething. Eventually, I filed for divorce... Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Maybe I'm just lucky in that my wife is pretty easy going. She's already told me a few time before that she doesn't care what I do as long as I don't bring any problems home. That's a very different scenario than the one one you've described to this point. I've known a few marriages like this, one spouse , usually based on income and lifestyle, gives the other spouse free reign as long as they don't rub their nose in it. Though that does seem to make the question of love a moot point... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 What's the point of an infidelity forum if it's just going to consist of people telling the poster that they are a terrible person etc... Seems pointless. Yeah I don't a have a thin skin. I was just trying to put across my point. Seems like a lot of people replying to my thread have their own unresolved issues they need to deal with. It's not about you being a terrible person. My comment to you was not an attack. It was more of a warning. Many couples who have experienced infidelity will enjoy a period of calm in the aftermath. It's as if the couple woke up and realized what they might lose. It's almost like a panic. The issue is that the problems within the ws that led him or her to make the decision to cheat will still be there. Some can get therapy or work on their own to learn better behvaior patterns, and they never cheat again. Some never reach that point. Some bs will seem okay at first ( at least to their ws) but when the full force of what happened hits them _ and that can take a long time- it can be a crisis point for the marriage, even more so than d-day itself. I'll take your word that your marriage is good now, but have you allowed your wife time to grieve, a chance to rage ( verbal, not physical) at you and an opportunity to work through all of this? Have you been completely honest with her that you feel you loved your ow, and may well have chosen to keep the A going if possible? My spouse cheated more than 10 years ago, and we reconciled.We are still together, but I remember well how the first year afterwards had a lot of ups and downs. You and your wife could be different, but just keep an eye out to make sure she's doing okay. If she's not, she might not tell you. If you keep checking in emotionally with her, that can go a long way. Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I'm sorry but no loving your wife simultaneously while having an A is not love at all. I don't know where you get your definition of love from, but that is not it. Best answer on this thread is this... people who have affairs and claim to love two people really only loves one.....themselves. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BettyDraper Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I think that the responses are harsh because you’re coming across as appallingly narcissistic. It appears that your wife is willing to look the other way as long as your actions do not disrupt her life. Some spouses are fine with that kind of arrangement. I’m curious about what you were looking for when you posted this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 I would say you didn't love either of them deeply. If you love someone deeply, the very last thing you would ever want to do is something selfish that would hurt them to the core, like cheating. That's not love. If you can do that, you don't love deeply enough. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Haru-no-yuki Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 I would say you didn't love either of them deeply. If you love someone deeply, the very last thing you would ever want to do is something selfish that would hurt them to the core, like cheating. That's not love. If you can do that, you don't love deeply enough. To be honest, what started as just some fun became something deeper than I expected. Now the OW is out of the picture life has returned to normality and is probably best for everyone. As I said before the OW knew about my wife for many months and my wife also had already guessed about the OW. Narcissistic? Yes probably. Link to post Share on other sites
Artdeco Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 OP, you are being naive-you said something deeper developed between you and your OW. And then she left you. After that, you fully recommitted to your wife. Does that make your wife the second choice? Yes. It does. If your wife is the second choice, because your OW left you, then the logical conclusion is that you’re now stuck with your default choice because your second choice (W) didn’t leave you like your first choice (OW) did. And of course you’re putting all your efforts into that second choice because you have no other choice left. And that’s simply not an ideal solution to the problem/situation. It’s simply the only way for you to go. You have no other way to go. The truth is that you’re trying to look elsewhere (like you have before), but there’s nothing else available, so you’re just making it work where you are right now. And you’re telling yourself that that’s where you want to be. But history shows you that that’s not the truth. There is simply no logic in asking the question whether or not you can love two women at the same time. The logical question would be whether you can talk yourself into being happy with your second choice. That’s all there is to it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Haru-no-yuki Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) OP, you are being naive-you said something deeper developed between you and your OW. And then she left you. After that, you fully recommitted to your wife. Does that make your wife the second choice? Yes. It does. Yeah none of what you wrote is correct, especially the quoted part above. I actually asked the OW to leave my apartment because I wanted to break up with her at that time. I could expand upon all this but it's not worth the effort.. And the idea I have no other choice... Laughable... Plenty of choices thrown at me daily. One thing I've learned from this though is how much my wife means to me. Edited October 22, 2018 by Haru-no-yuki Link to post Share on other sites
Artdeco Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 OK cool. However, dude, given the thread title I was assuming that you are interested in the emotional aspect of having one woman versus the other versus both - and how you are conflicted about feeling about both of them etc. etc You can say what you want right now and turn it around all the way you want to, but it’s obvious that you are butthurt about ow leaving you (for your coworker none the less, that you have mentioned 1 million times) - And now you’re in the situation you’re in - Trying to make it work with your wife that you’ve been married to for decades. BC You have to - It’s the same old story all around. Nothing special about that. Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 One thing I've learned from this though is how much my wife means to me. Does she know this? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Haru-no-yuki Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 and how you are conflicted about feeling about both of them etc. etc. Sure there was conflict but make no mistake, no way is my wife second best. She's better looking, smarter, higher EQ etc etc. So I'll shoot that down straight away. There are other mitigating issues that you know nothing about. I couldn't care less if OW went out with my ex colleague. People on this site have said stuff along the lines of how I manipulated her etc. Well, that guy is much worse. Will say anything and not deliver. Which is why he's leaving his current company because he was effectively fired for being useless. I was upset about the way the relationship ended, without any sensible communication. Ie her just cutting me off. In fact she never even explicitly dumped me. No that it ended. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Haru-no-yuki Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) Does she know this? Yes, I think she does. That last paragraph should read: "I was upset about the way the relationship ended, without any sensible communication. Ie her just cutting me off. In fact she never even explicitly dumped me. Not that it ended" Edited October 22, 2018 by Haru-no-yuki Link to post Share on other sites
LondonFair Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I believe you can love more than one person at a time. I believe however, you can only be in love with one person at a time. Link to post Share on other sites
smi11ie Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 I am sure, if you were cheated on, you would have a slightly different attitude. You haven't suffered any consequences. Having a larger income than your wife doesn't give you carte blanche to behave any way you like. I get the feeling you are going to receive your comeuppance further on down the line. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Haru-no-yuki Posted December 2, 2018 Author Share Posted December 2, 2018 I am sure, if you were cheated on, you would have a slightly different attitude. You haven't suffered any consequences. Having a larger income than your wife doesn't give you carte blanche to behave any way you like. I get the feeling you are going to receive your comeuppance further on down the line. I'm fairly convinced I've been cheated on before in relationships. Reality is that women have just as much tendancy to cheat as men, they're probably just better at keeping it quiet and containing... I don't control my partners (now wife). If she wants to have some fun so be it. In fact my wife has said to me she doesn't care as long as she doesn't know and I don't bring problems home. My mistake was not following this... Oh, and yes my wife and I have a very loving relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
pepperbird Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 I'm fairly convinced I've been cheated on before in relationships. Reality is that women have just as much tendancy to cheat as men, they're probably just better at keeping it quiet and containing... I don't control my partners (now wife). If she wants to have some fun so be it. In fact my wife has said to me she doesn't care as long as she doesn't know and I don't bring problems home. My mistake was not following this... Oh, and yes my wife and I have a very loving relationship. When I read something like this, I always wonder what is really going through the bs's mind. it's possible she's okay with you seeing other people, but there could well be more going on than what you realize. Link to post Share on other sites
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