Author brokenandhopeless Posted June 20, 2019 Author Posted June 20, 2019 Hi InvisibleLady, DKT3, ZBA, and Abetterme, will reply to you all next week. Thank you for taking the time. Just been swamped a bit with some other things at work and some travel. 1
Author brokenandhopeless Posted July 2, 2019 Author Posted July 2, 2019 Anyway, the point is, the LC contact works great until it doesn’t. Because it’s always on his terms. And it’s fine as long as he wants it, but he maintains his carefree life and when he is done he just ghosts. And then there you are hurt & rejected all over again. With a raw wound just like it was when it ended. Take control and be the one to end it. Like Abetterme, I recently started readingPost Male Syndrome and it is helpful to understand that these men are emotionally unavailable narcissists. I want to get to the place where Abetterme is where I just feel disgust over the situation. Her post helped me too. So back here to provide an update on the last 2 weeks. It was busy for me the last 2 weeks so I didn't care about contacting him but there was always some level of very LC. But InvisibleLady, I am at the point of cutting even LC. I am tired. I am tired of the hope that I keep having and how I can be so irrationally stupid. I just want it all to end. For sure he is an emotionally unavailable narcissist. That I know (The rest of you waiting to bash me up, yes I know my faults). I've sort of been beating myself up so much. But I am tired. Finally tired. Somebody on these threads posted that I will have to come to a point of saying "enough is enough." Today I am there. I will start reading the resource you have pointed out to. I am just mentally tired.
Author brokenandhopeless Posted July 2, 2019 Author Posted July 2, 2019 Like all addictions the first real step is genuinely wanting to stop. She doesn't want to stop. None of us are really controlled by emotion, we simply use it as an excuse when we dont want to do things we know we should. Not really wanting to be done with this guy really just means she is holding out hope that something will come of it. Not sure how that works since she is married. I've been accused of being robotic when it comes to my ability to cut people off in life, so take this last part for what its worth coming from a extremely emotionally controlled person. Just stop...stop communication, stop thinking about him, when you do push thoughts towards how your family will react if they knew. Just stop. This is the part I need significant help with. When the thought, trigger comes, I need a solid coping mechanism. This is where I have been failing the last 5 years. 2 months into re-contact with him, I've been trying this gymnastics of getting out but I have never succeeded. So I've been trying for long unsuccessfully.
Author brokenandhopeless Posted July 2, 2019 Author Posted July 2, 2019 @broken - It sounds like maybe fear of embarrassing yourself is keeping you locked in. I think you can just say “look, I have done a lot of thinking and because our friendship has crossed boundaries at one time, I realize how truly disrespectful it is to my husband staying in contact with you. I wish you all the best” and move on. You save face, but you need to get control of the will. I love a glass of wine, but if the doc told me tomorrow one more glass would make my liver burst, I’d be done. Go NC like your life depends on, because it does. I would also put in another plug for therapy. I have spent a lot of time on myself the last 6 months and believe it will also help you get to the root of what you’re getting out of this half assed “friendship”. I’m sure your real friends would love hearing from you more. Thinking of you both. Thank you Abetterme. I have cut contact with real friends and my life has transformed for the worse the last 5 years. I am just tired today and want it all to stop. I just have to go NC, as you state, like my life depends on it. I literally need somebody to slap my face when my thoughts turn towards MM. And that would be quite a few slaps a day. Thank you.
Author brokenandhopeless Posted July 2, 2019 Author Posted July 2, 2019 @Broken, I’ve read your thread from start to finish. I’ve felt your moments of despair as well. You’ve mentioned a number of times about how your MM holds all the power - in initiating, in ending the convo, and in someday cutting you off for good. What better way to reclaim your power than to ghost him? No explanation necessary. Just walk away silently. It is exactly what I did and it was hard at first because I still cared, but I feel SO good now. Over a year of NC and never ever looking back. It has been incredibly empowering and liberating. You can feel this as well, you just have to choose to. @ABetterMe: POST MALE SYNDROME! The best site ever! She’s amazing. Her articles got me thru that first rough period after ghosting xMM. Broken, and anyone else struggling, I HIGHLY recommend giving her articles a read. I’ve revisited her page anytime I was feeling triggered and needed reminders to keep me on track. Broken, feel free to PM me if you want me to dig up some of the specific articles I found helpful, or if you need to talk. Thank you ZBA. I may take you up on your offer to help me through this and I will read the site. Instead of having all the mental conversations in my head that eventually lead down the path of LC, i want to be able to talk to somebody that would make me stop. Unfortunately I am not in a position to be able to confide in friends. Good for you on your progress! Mentally tired of it all and the tears. I just want to be in a position to silently wish him well and stick to my guts of not contacting. I am just exhausted today.
Author brokenandhopeless Posted July 2, 2019 Author Posted July 2, 2019 As a general update: the last 2 weeks I was super busy. When I am not super busy or overwhelmed, my thoughts turn to MM (like this week but will not have contact since he is travelling with his family, plus he also does not initiate much contact and neither do I). So it's been steady LC. But being in a state of being super busy or overwhelmed is not something that I can have for the rest of my life to be able to turn away from MM. I am mentally tired. EXHAUSTED. I am tired of my tears. I close the door to my office and during the day I cry. I am tired of my rational brain not winning over the stupid low hope I keep having. I am constantly beating myself up over all the life choices I've made and how I got to where I am now. It's one of those days... I KNOW there is nowhere to go but stop even LC. Why I can't rip even that bandaid is beyond me. I just don't know. I am so ashamed of myself. Most of the time, in my head, I am just beating myself up for being a person without strength and ethics. Pretty much in tears now. Thank you for listening to me. For those new OW, OMs, this is so not worth it. Run away NOW. 2
pepperbird Posted July 2, 2019 Posted July 2, 2019 Op, I am sorry to hear things are tough for you right now. Is there any way you and a few close friends could get away for a couple of days? Sometimes, a change of scenery can be good for the soul. You could relax, talk and enjoy a "mm free" zone for a few days.
Abetterme Posted July 2, 2019 Posted July 2, 2019 @broken - I am sorry today is such a hard day. Believe me when I say we all have them, and you are not alone. I saw someone here say once extend yourself grace like you would talking to your child self. You made mistakes, but that doesn’t mean you need to keep living in it. You can move forward as a better version of yourself but the work needs to start now. I can’t recall, have you started therapy? I really do think this would be a great way for you to start providing yourself with some coping mechanisms so when you have those thoughts of xMM you can redirect your focus to healthy things. Tomorrow will be better. Take tonight to focus on your kiddos. Go for a bike, have some ice cream. Anything to remind yourself of what is real and important in life. I prefer those kind of slaps in the face thinking of you.
Beentheretoooften Posted July 2, 2019 Posted July 2, 2019 OP, although I’m on the other side of this, the hardest part, for me and probably most others, is where to put your thoughts when the AP is the only thing on your mind. Being busy with life and work, going away, exercising , being out with friends, these are the best things because they occupy your mind. I have a difficult times Monday mornings at work. That’s always my toughest time. I sometimes circle for hours in my head. It’s been getting better with strict NC, but I think the thoughts will always be there, it’s the fading vividness of them and fading memories that will make it easier as time passes. But I will never forget AP, as awful as I was to even get into that situation. I hope you get well, I hope you flourish in time. A good friend of mine, who knows I’m struggling, but doesn’t know why, sent me this message. It reads “one day you will tell your story of how you’ve overcome what your going through now, and it will be a part of someone else’s survival guide” I literally cried my eyes out. She sent it to me yesterday (monday). The timing couldn’t have been better. Wishing you all the best.
Author brokenandhopeless Posted July 2, 2019 Author Posted July 2, 2019 Thank you pepperbird and Abetterme. It will be "MM free" zone this week because he is travelling and for 10 days in early August, I am going to be travelling. Monday is the day I dread because I know he will be back and I have to stay strong next week and not hope. For the last 2 weeks, I did not contact him at all though he initiated LC. I felt proud for not having reached out of my own accord. I am having a hard time forgiving myself for having strayed mentally (not much physically since he lives 1000s of miles away) and made such poor choices....and an even harder time that even knowing so, I still indulge in LC. I haven't started therapy because of the cost (not that I can't afford it), but I keep wondering if it will be money down the drain if i don't follow through. For example, you kind folks have been saying so many things for me to snap out of it and here I am, still beating myself up and not following what you folks are telling me. I made some progress but on a day like today, I feel like I have taken 20 steps backward. I keep wondering, philosophically, what was the point of such a chapter in my life when it was never meant to be and I KNEW IT?! Why did I have to go through this when I KNEW 19 years ago he was trouble, stayed away, yet keeled 5 years ago. Geez, I am just thinking of fate and such stuff. It was almost that it was a battle that was never to be won and yet I was presented with it and I chose to participate in a losing battle. Sorry for the rambling and thank you for the kindness.
Author brokenandhopeless Posted July 2, 2019 Author Posted July 2, 2019 OP, although I’m on the other side of this, the hardest part, for me and probably most others, is where to put your thoughts when the AP is the only thing on your mind. Being busy with life and work, going away, exercising , being out with friends, these are the best things because they occupy your mind. I have a difficult times Monday mornings at work. That’s always my toughest time. I sometimes circle for hours in my head. It’s been getting better with strict NC, but I think the thoughts will always be there, it’s the fading vividness of them and fading memories that will make it easier as time passes. But I will never forget AP, as awful as I was to even get into that situation. I hope you get well, I hope you flourish in time. A good friend of mine, who knows I’m struggling, but doesn’t know why, sent me this message. It reads “one day you will tell your story of how you’ve overcome what your going through now, and it will be a part of someone else’s survival guide” I literally cried my eyes out. She sent it to me yesterday (monday). The timing couldn’t have been better. Wishing you all the best. Thank you beentheretoooften. This, your first line, is my problem. The other bolded lines, I couldn't agree more. None of my friends know my struggle save for a couple whom I am not in touch with anymore. I feel like a child who needs second-by-second handholding.
Beentheretoooften Posted July 2, 2019 Posted July 2, 2019 Broken One more point you mentioned about wasting money with IC. Most are now covered by Insurance. My copay is $25. Total no brainer. Call insurance company and find out which ones are in your network, then choose one. $25. Do it. It helped me a little, not as much as I would have liked, but I’ll take anything in the positive direction. Most of healing has to come from you. But the guidance certainly helps.
Rayce Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 @brokenandhopeless hang in there. I am at just 8 months NC with my xMM and sometime this month... I actually turned a corner. I don't know how to explain it except that I know I have so just hang in there and keep up with NC. Deactivate social media if you haven't already. That helped me more than anything... before that I was so obsessed I was checking fb like every 10 or 15 minutes… now it's LS... lol... I still love him and I always will but I personally can't handle the situation. My heart wants him beyond anyone.. but not as long as he is commit to another which he is... so like you I have stepped aside. I have adopted a "fake it till I make it" view and doing whatever I can to put myself out there and hopefully meet someone who has the time for me... The time a MM can't offer me. If he wants me at this point... well... he has to leave his wife... plain and simple... otherwise I am actually shopping for his replacement....
pepperbird Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 op, you can;t change what happened, but it does sound to me like you are putting in a lot of mental work to learn from your mistakes. You aren't running from them...you are trying really hard to face them head on. I understand how confusing it can be to still care for someone even though they are not good for you. When I was a teen, I had a relationship with a guy who was abusive. Even though he was terrible to me, after I got rid of him for good, in a sick way, I still missed him, but didn't know why. I got some counseling, and found that once I understood why I allowed myself to get into that relationship, and why I stayed, it made it easier to let it go. I wasn't missing him- I was missing the (scant) good feelings I got when I was with him. He'd always be so kind and caring after he was abusive- at least at first- and I missed that. The counselor helped me to see that I could get those same good feelings from someone else without the accompanying abuse. The hardest part was reaching a point where I believed that.
Bittersweetie Posted July 3, 2019 Posted July 3, 2019 I am having a hard time forgiving myself for having strayed mentally (not much physically since he lives 1000s of miles away) and made such poor choices....and an even harder time that even knowing so, I still indulge in LC. Broken, I don't think that right now is the time to be trying to forgive yourself. You have more important goals: starting full NC, learning a new coping skill in order to deal with AP/negative thoughts. Then, as you get stronger, you can start looking into why you thought your choices were okay, and what you can do differently moving forward. It's like you're driving a busted car on the highway, and all you're looking at is why the heck you bought this car in the first place, rather than focusing on finding a safe place to pull over. Someday you will figure out why you didn't walk away from the trouble...but that time isn't right now. Right now you need to focus on getting yourself to a safe place in order to heal and grow. As for therapy, I have found it worth it. I've been fortunate to have therapists who push me without being negative about it. Therapy provides a safe third party to bounce everything off of...the good steps forward and the bad steps backward. And maybe if you start actually spending the money, you actually will follow through on some things. Good luck. 1
oldlion Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 After reading your post the first thing I see is a cat playing with a mouse he caught. The cat is your MM and you dear lady is his mouse. It never ends well for the mouse. I do wish you well.
Author brokenandhopeless Posted July 4, 2019 Author Posted July 4, 2019 After reading your post the first thing I see is a cat playing with a mouse he caught. The cat is your MM and you dear lady is his mouse. It never ends well for the mouse. I do wish you well. I will respond to the others who have offered me advice ...but on this one he has played with many people after marriage for sexual fun. He did say that he is not in touch with any of them. For some reason has stayed in touch with me from his bachelor days. Of course I can't believe in any of that now. I also have a strong suspicion that he is possibly playing around with other(s) now too. What I just cant understand is why caved I after so many years of staying strong and why I think of him or long for the breadcrumbs from him. I dont understand why he sends the occasional lovey-dovey emoji on the app. I do know this. He does not want to see me anymore but is content with the occasional chat/phone call. If i were to be afflicted of something and on my deathbed too, he wouldn't even come down to see me. I know all that. He is careful about his marriage and those boundaries. It's been a tough few days for me of thinking and soul-searching. I have no plans of contacting him or anything next week. I hope I stay strong.
Author brokenandhopeless Posted July 4, 2019 Author Posted July 4, 2019 op, you can;t change what happened, but it does sound to me like you are putting in a lot of mental work to learn from your mistakes. You aren't running from them...you are trying really hard to face them head on. I understand how confusing it can be to still care for someone even though they are not good for you. When I was a teen, I had a relationship with a guy who was abusive. Even though he was terrible to me, after I got rid of him for good, in a sick way, I still missed him, but didn't know why. I got some counseling, and found that once I understood why I allowed myself to get into that relationship, and why I stayed, it made it easier to let it go. I wasn't missing him- I was missing the (scant) good feelings I got when I was with him. He'd always be so kind and caring after he was abusive- at least at first- and I missed that. The counselor helped me to see that I could get those same good feelings from someone else without the accompanying abuse. The hardest part was reaching a point where I believed that. Thanks pepperbird. Yes I think there is some family-of-origin issue mixed with this one that made me make poor choices. I am slowly coming to the conclusion based on all the posts that I should get therapy. Does therapy offer good coping mechanisms? I mean I need like a 100 step plan of 100 things to do every day when my thoughts turn to him. I hate this obsession. I just don't want to be this way. I want to be where I don't care if he is alive or dead anymore. Thank you for your insights.
Zona Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) Does therapy offer good coping mechanisms? If you get a good therapist, definitely yes. It has helped my fWW immensely with her FOO issues, and also with appropriate boundaries and her strong need for validation. We shall see if the positive changes stick. She seems pretty committed to staying on the straight and narrow now. Time will tell. One more thing, there is a new rule. Call me controlling but the rule is NO MORE MALE FREINDS!! Especially at work. This is what got her into trouble in the first place and lead to a PA and a later EA with a different male co-worker. Edited July 4, 2019 by Zona
Abetterme Posted July 4, 2019 Posted July 4, 2019 I will respond to the others who have offered me advice ...but on this one he has played with many people after marriage for sexual fun. He did say that he is not in touch with any of them. For some reason has stayed in touch with me from his bachelor days. Of course I can't believe in any of that now. I also have a strong suspicion that he is possibly playing around with other(s) now too. What I just cant understand is why caved I after so many years of staying strong and why I think of him or long for the breadcrumbs from him. I dont understand why he sends the occasional lovey-dovey emoji on the app. I do know this. He does not want to see me anymore but is content with the occasional chat/phone call. If i were to be afflicted of something and on my deathbed too, he wouldn't even come down to see me. I know all that. He is careful about his marriage. @broken - I think in the case of many MM, the simplest explanation really IS the explanation. He enjoys the ego boost you give him. It assuages his guilt not being sexual with you in any way, but in his mind infrequent “lovey” messaging is likely not “crossing the line”. For the same reason it’s tough for you to let go, it is him, but it doesn’t mean he has a bigger intention of being with you. I imagine he also feels ok staying in touch as unlike these other women he messes around with, he doesn’t believe you will blow up his marriage and you’re not asking for me. He is probably totally clueless as the depths this dynamic messes harms you. I think for you therapy is an absolute must. It will def help with the obsessive thoughts. I’d look into a therapist who specializes in EMDR. It is tough taking that step, but I believe it will help you.
Beentheretoooften Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 @ abetterme. I don’t understand how an MM, would want to stay in touch with AP, after they end. Why would MM want to see her with another guy. This is the part thats driving me crazy. I want her, but I feel like vomiting knowing she could be with somebody else. Especially after a decade of exclusivity. Impossible. 1
Abetterme Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 @beenthere - I would read through Brokens thread. My point in that post was reiterating something that we’ve been talking about for awhile on the thread - this guy just don’t feel the same way about her and so he’s fine with casual contact. It’s this disconnect with how she feels and acts and how he feels and acts that keeps her stuck. She’s also a MOW so he’s not sitting there jealous about what she’s doing. He knows where they both are. Instead Broken knows his history of PA and so this hurts her, the wondering about what he’s doing and who he’s “moved on” with. I’m sure he gets a boost from reaching out and seeing if she’s “still there” periodically. It’s exactly what my xMM would do...if I let him. Let’s hear your thoughts though as many of us are not former MM in A. Why do you think he’s ok maintaining this type of contact?
Beentheretoooften Posted July 5, 2019 Posted July 5, 2019 @abetterme. Just went back and read op first lost. And I don’t have an answer. 5 meetups over 2 decades. Seems so far spread out. I can see why MM isn’t madly in love with her. They are never together. I’m in a current whirlwind with all these interesting threads going on.
Author brokenandhopeless Posted July 5, 2019 Author Posted July 5, 2019 @abetterme. Just went back and read op first lost. And I don’t have an answer. 5 meetups over 2 decades. Seems so far spread out. I can see why MM isn’t madly in love with her. They are never together. I’m in a current whirlwind with all these interesting threads going on. Yup. He doesn't have to be and I respect that. And for 14 years of the 20, I never contacted him though he used to call occasionally to be naughty and I never crossed the line and spoke only about life and work (until I keeled 5 years ago). What I don't get is the intensity over the last 5 years in contacting me and 5 years ago he wanted to meet oh-so-badly. And when an event took me to his city, he bailed at the last minute to meet me for 30 mins. Since then, we met up a couple of more times and were naughty (never all the way) but I was the one instigating since I was hooked by then. I am just scratching my head over where I stand... why he continues to contact me and keep in touch if he doesn't want to meet me. I just don't know what I provide to him. Is it the few ego kibbles via phone when he tries to be naughty and I indulge? Like what?! Clearly he doesn't think we will meet any more in life. Clearly I am a secret. Clearly he has all the power to contact me and I can never contact him that easily. Heck, I wouldn't even know if he were dead or alive unless he contacted me. So why the heck does he reach out to me?!! I know I have not been honest in telling him the true extent of my feelings.
Author brokenandhopeless Posted July 5, 2019 Author Posted July 5, 2019 @beenthere - I would read through Brokens thread. My point in that post was reiterating something that we’ve been talking about for awhile on the thread - this guy just don’t feel the same way about her and so he’s fine with casual contact. It’s this disconnect with how she feels and acts and how he feels and acts that keeps her stuck. She’s also a MOW so he’s not sitting there jealous about what she’s doing. He knows where they both are. Instead Broken knows his history of PA and so this hurts her, the wondering about what he’s doing and who he’s “moved on” with. I’m sure he gets a boost from reaching out and seeing if she’s “still there” periodically. It’s exactly what my xMM would do...if I let him. Let’s hear your thoughts though as many of us are not former MM in A. Why do you think he’s ok maintaining this type of contact? You couldn't have summarized this better. The bolded part is what has me stumped. I'll tell you this. If he could provide closure of some sort and say he doesn't want to stay in touch, I'd be in a better place.
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