snowboy91 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I have been dating a guy for 2 months. We went out for dinner last night on his suggestion. The waitress of course asks him when its ok to bring the bill and he says yes. All things point to him paying for the meal. As he usually does. He makes twice as much money as me and he knows I am a single parent so he pays most of the time. Sometimes I have paid for things and declined his offer to pay back. I figure its all evening out one way or the other. I take his kids out or buy them things etc. Anyway last night when the bill came he turned it upside down and pushed it closer to my side of the table. He already had his credit card out but to me it looked like an invitation to pay. So I said I would pay. He didnt argue the point much and let me pay the bill but to be honest I cant keep up this stream of paying for "stuff" anymore. I dont know how to say it nicely but its getting stupid. We have already had a few arguments so I dont want to start anymore friction. But.... What should I do or say the next time we go to a restaurant? He tends to rely on takeout or restaurants especially when his kids are with him. I cant keep up. Eating out a lot can be a huge money suck, especially over time. I'd suggest cheaper activities, or staying in and cooking dinner together. Enjoying time together shouldn't come at a huge financial cost to either party IMO. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
CollinW Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Time to dump, like yesterday... Now I realize that women are equals and all of that[] When you take a woman out you pay for it. Bottom line, and guys, if it is a problem then don't go out. If you don't have the money you do not go out. And women, don't go out with me that do not pay for the outing. I am sorry, I know I am old fashioned, but this is how (IMHO) it should work. (for actual dates, not just friends, but I usually pay for that too). If my GF insists that she pay, I will let her, but I am still mildly irritated. And OP, what a punk for this guy to act that way, screw him. (and I do not mean sexually) Women deserve to be treated like ladies and that includes paying for the meal. I am so bad that I get mildly pissed when GF does not have at least some cash in her purse. I have asked her to keep some cash in her purse at least for emergencies. I put money in there just this morning because I woke up late and did not have time to make her breakfast. Just dump the chump... I don't understand why men like you tie your identity to paying. I understand it's an old school way of thinking but it kinda reeks of insecurity. Being a willing chump isn't honorable or virtuous, and men who choose not to allow themselves to be used are free to pursue a more equitable relationship. Times are different sir. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
CollinW Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I've paid for dinner once or twice. He pays all the time. I pay for other Stuff like a $250 mirror (a gift from me) for his bedroom (adds to the ambiance if you know what I mean). Taking his children out, which means paying for meals that are only partially eaten or going to movies that they don't want to sit through. Buying them birthday presents or easter chocolate from expensive places. Stuff like that. If it's not appreciated, I don't have to do it. Time will tell. To be fair I think it's fair to question if you appreciate him. Considering as you expressed he pays all of the time yet the 2 times you actually paid has you questioning your relationship. If you feel like you're playing tit for tat in a relationship this early then I think you need to question how dedicated you two are to each other in this union. TBQH it seems a bit too soon for the level of financial commitment you two are sharing that's what I do too. maybe we are old fashioned. as a man its your job to pay the bills As a man it's your job to pave your own path and not allow outdated and quite ridiculous ideology pave it for you. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 This conversation does not happen at the dinner table. It happens before you decide to go out for dinner... You remind him that you are in a different place them him financially, and you can't afford to eat out as often as he does. Then, offer to make him dinner... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Agonistes Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I always pay for dinners out unless she offers to treat. I will accept that from time to time. I would never, ever ask or expect her to pay. I was raised to be a provider and that is one of the ways I value myself. I think I am a very good provider. If I wanted to I could pay for dinner for two every night of the year and it would not create the slightest hardship. I would rather spend the money on other things, though, and eat more healthy fare at home. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BluesPower Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I don't understand why men like you tie your identity to paying. I understand it's an old school way of thinking but it kinda reeks of insecurity. Being a willing chump isn't honorable or virtuous, and men who choose not to allow themselves to be used are free to pursue a more equitable relationship. Times are different sir. Collin my dear man... No, I am afraid not. A lot of weak men want to think that way. They want to think that they are progressive. They like to think that being all equal and sensitive and what not makes them cool and likeable to women. It never has and it never will. Old school, financially well off guys like me, go home and F*** the cheerleader so to speak. Women go out with me, not only because of my devilish good looks and astounding wit, but because I know how to treat a lady. I never get taken advantage of by women. I am off the market at the moment, fairly recently. But until that point, I had no shortage of women that wanted to be with me, and frankly still do. I just cannot accommodate them since I am in a relationship. So sorry, I just have to disagree. A man, a real man, treats a woman like a queen. He leads the relationship, makes her feel safe, secure, and special. And, yeah, he pays for the dates. If you think you are being taken advantage of, Maybe you are doing it wrong? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
CautiouslyOptimistic Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) Collin my dear man... No, I am afraid not. A lot of weak men want to think that way. They want to think that they are progressive. They like to think that being all equal and sensitive and what not makes them cool and likeable to women. It never has and it never will. Old school, financially well off guys like me, go home and F*** the cheerleader so to speak. <snip> What advice do you have for a "real man," a "real gentleman" who would treat a woman with the utmost respect but simply can't financially afford to pay for ALL dates if he is in a long-term relationship with a woman? Edited March 22, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Truncate quote 4 Link to post Share on other sites
snowboy91 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I was wondering when this would manifest itself in this thread... In this age of supposed equality, there is this idea that true equality means that both the man and the woman should pay equally (or thereabouts) on dates. But there is also this old-school expectation that prevails in many people where it is the man's job to pay for the dates, and the woman's job to accept - an expectation that still prevails amongst many women, because it favours them. Setting my own personal opinions aside, I feel as if a man who adheres to this old-school way of thinking and wants to pay for all dates will be well matched with a woman who will happily be paid for. Men who wish to split bills or pay equally in some other way will match well with a woman who isn't afraid to pay her way. And yes they DO exist - this has been the way it's been for my entire relationship of 6 years, and it has never caused conflict. According to the "old school" theory, I wouldn't be in a relationship. And most of my female friends feel exactly the same way. Very few women I know expect a potential partner to pay for them all the time... some even see it as an insult. My point is, there is room for both schools of thought here. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I say this as a mostly traditional minded person.. But unless a woman has been living in a cave for the last 50 years, they actually feel more comfortable in an arrangement where there is some equality there...Most women now would be weirded out by a guy always demanding to pay, and may even find it somewhat controlling... Conversely, Id not feel too good about a woman that never offered to pay and just sat there as if its some type of female right or test for a guy to pass...Again, I'm not even saying split bills(how dreadful and I don't know how people do this:sick:) or pay the majority of time...But never?? Nah... As for the op....Just talk to him about it...I am sure it probably could be worked out.. TFY 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Keats Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Don't get this modern world at all. You should support your kids. Your money should go there first. And he should support his kids. His money should go there first. If you want to date. You pay half and half. That's the decent thing to do. For men and women. Gone are the days when men pay for dates with women. And this guys knows it. But he's gone a step further. Everyone is working now. Everyone has money. Don't share your money until your seriously committed. Otherwise your just giving money away to strangers, who don't want to see you again in the long term. 2 months is 2 days. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BluesPower Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 What advice do you have for a "real man," a "real gentleman" who would treat a woman with the utmost respect but simply can't financially afford to pay for ALL dates if he is in a long-term relationship with a woman? Get a better job... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
salparadise Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) But there is also this old-school expectation that prevails in many people where it is the man's job to pay for the dates, and the woman's job to accept - an expectation that still prevails amongst many women, because it favours them. Yes, and it sets a whole range of expectations having to do with entitlement, transactional gender relations... receiving a continual flow of valuable consideration because she controls the vagina, which makes her inherently more valuable and entitled to as much cash and benefits as she can manage to squeeze out of wealthy males. But the flips side is that women have no power of their own, or real value, other than that which is bestowed on them by the men wanting to bang them. Access Hollywood, Stormy Daniels, etc. Edited March 22, 2018 by salparadise Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 What advice do you have for a "real man," a "real gentleman" who would treat a woman with the utmost respect but simply can't financially afford to pay for ALL dates if he is in a long-term relationship with a woman? One thing is for sure is he shouldn't expect her to pay.. you just said he is a real Gentleman who would treat a woman with the utmost respect. A real Gentleman will take care of his woman not put her in the position of wondering what type of man she is dating. The only advice you have to give someone in that position is change the dates and outtings to something less monetary. A walk on a boardwalk with an ice cream type of thing.. a drive in the country if it is past a few dates.. just hanging out is another, age depending. a home cooked meal with a Scrabble Board to be used after dinner. A date doesn't have to be expensive, but a date must always have the man taking the lead and being a Gentleman to his date. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Yes, and it sets a whole range of expectations having to do with entitlement, transactional gender relations... receiving a continual flow of valuable consideration because she controls the vagina, which makes her inherently more valuable and entitled to as much cash and benefits as she can manage to squeeze out of wealthy males. But the flips side is that women have no power of their own, or real value, other than that which is bestowed on them by the men wanting to bang them. Access Hollywood, Stormy Daniels, etc. Sal, is that really how you feel ? Women have no value, no power of their own ? I get the entitlement and transacional side of dating, at times that to me is a price that just gets paid in order to participate in getting to know someone, most women however have never given me that vib, and the ones that do normally don't last long in the dating process before they get nexted. Link to post Share on other sites
Author db1984 Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 To be fair I think it's fair to question if you appreciate him. Considering as you expressed he pays all of the time yet the 2 times you actually paid has you questioning your relationship. If you feel like you're playing tit for tat in a relationship this early then I think you need to question how dedicated you two are to each other in this union. TBQH it seems a bit too soon for the level of financial commitment you two are sharing As a man it's your job to pave your own path and not allow outdated and quite ridiculous ideology pave it for you. Im not scorekeeping. But the spending Ive done on his kids must be unnoticed or he would not pull these crafty maneuvres to see if I will pay the bill. Yes its time to buy groceries and cook. Stop being lazy. Restaurant food and takeout will takes its toll physically and financially Link to post Share on other sites
CollinW Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 They like to think that being all equal and sensitive and what not makes them cool and likeable to women. I'm afraid that's where you're wrong. Real men actually do what they do because they want to, not to impress women. If you feel you're doing something because "that's what you're supposed to do", then you shouldn't call yourself a man. Those words make me cringe. It never has and it never will. Old school, financially well off guys like me, go home and F*** the cheerleader so to speak. If that's what helps you sleep at night. Men like you are the ones who women have wine and dine them, kiss them on the cheek and call men like me up at night to put them to sleep. That's why I could never have the disdain for female-identified men, you're the ones who take one for the team for the rest of us. This is LS, I'm sure you've seen threads where men's wives have cheated with bums. I'm worried that will be you soon. I never get taken advantage of by women. I am off the market at the moment, fairly recently. But until that point, I had no shortage of women that wanted to be with me, and frankly still do. I just cannot accommodate them since I am in a relationship. It's funny you bring up the cheerleader narrative. My fiance was a cheerleader for OSU, gorgeous and offered a modelling contract in NYC for VS. Has past and present football players she knew in school offering her to become a WAG. Yet this woman is marrying me and has taken me to an expensive restaurant 2 out of the last 3 weekends despite the fact that I make considerably more than her. It's nice to be respected and loved without having to purchase it. Some of us can get what we want for free while others have to pay. If you don't consider that being taken advantage of then it's your right. But don't get mad at us because some of us can 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BluesPower Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 One thing is for sure is he shouldn't expect her to pay.. you just said he is a real Gentleman who would treat a woman with the utmost respect. A real Gentleman will take care of his woman not put her in the position of wondering what type of man she is dating. The only advice you have to give someone in that position is change the dates and outtings to something less monetary. A walk on a boardwalk with an ice cream type of thing.. a drive in the country if it is past a few dates.. just hanging out is another, age depending. a home cooked meal with a Scrabble Board to be used after dinner. A date doesn't have to be expensive, but a date must always have the man taking the lead and being a Gentleman to his date. Thank you AC, thank you very much. This is all I am saying. We don't need to get into all of the progressive pop culture sociology crap, which is in point of fact just that, crap. What I am saying especially to men like Collin that women are special and you should treat them as such. And further, any woman that I choose to be with will be treated like a queen because when we are together she is my queen. And to CautiouslyOptimistic, I was a little flippant with my reply to your question, sorry. There is nothing wrong with sharing expenses when you are in a long term relationship. And I do let GF pay for things when she wants to. And while we can't live together yet, which sucks, when she retires after next year and moves in, we will combine our assets like most couples. I think GF actually has more disposable income than I do right now, but I am not sure because we have not run the numbers yet. What I would and will never do, is allow myself the be supported by woman, unless we are in a life time LTR and something happens to me. And it would have to be something really big, as I have made provisions for any of the common issues of accident and sickness. Other than that, the concept is repugnant to me. Link to post Share on other sites
BluesPower Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I'm afraid that's where you're wrong. Real men actually do what they do because they want to, not to impress women. If you feel you're doing something because "that's what you're supposed to do", then you shouldn't call yourself a man. Those words make me cringe. If that's what helps you sleep at night. Men like you are the ones who women have wine and dine them, kiss them on the cheek and call men like me up at night to put them to sleep. That's why I could never have the disdain for female-identified men, you're the ones who take one for the team for the rest of us. This is LS, I'm sure you've seen threads where men's wives have cheated with bums. I'm worried that will be you soon. It's funny you bring up the cheerleader narrative. My fiance was a cheerleader for OSU, gorgeous and offered a modelling contract in NYC for VS. Has past and present football players she knew in school offering her to become a WAG. Yet this woman is marrying me and has taken me to an expensive restaurant 2 out of the last 3 weekends despite the fact that I make considerably more than her. It's nice to be respected and loved without having to purchase it. Some of us can get what we want for free while others have to pay. If you don't consider that being taken advantage of then it's your right. But don't get mad at us because some of us can Collin, collin, collin... Such animosity, goodness. I am sure you are right, but you make many assumptions. And I hope that continues to work for you. Link to post Share on other sites
CollinW Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 What advice do you have for a "real man," a "real gentleman" who would treat a woman with the utmost respect but simply can't financially afford to pay for ALL dates if he is in a long-term relationship with a woman? Men should never get in relationships that's financially imbalanced for them if they can't handle it. Believe it or not there are women out there who have no problem contributing. You simply have to find them and set your expectations up front. When I was dating on the first date when they offered to pay I'd say "no I got it this time but you got it next time" and there was never a problem. If they didn't offer and I actually liked the girl, if she asked about another dated I'd tell her "I'll let you choose since you're treating me this time." If she has any problems with the above then you cut your loses and move on. That means they're entitled and not someone you'd want to date anyway, trust me. Rule of thumb, paying will not make a woman who doesn't like you like you more. Not paying will never make a woman who does like you like you less. There is a reason the broke artistic type of men get so much loving. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Marc878 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 If I take a woman out to lunch, dinner, etc. I pay. Always!!!! 4 Link to post Share on other sites
PegNosePete Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I have been dating a guy for 2 months. I take his kids out or buy them things etc. You've been dating a guy for 2 months and you're already taking his kids out and buying them things? That's a little crazy, IMO. We have already had a few arguments You've already had a few arguments, 2 months into dating someone? Break up. This is supposed to be the best behaviour, honeymoon phase. If you've already had a few arguments in the first 2 months then how do you think you'll be after 6 months, a year, 5 years? Nope. Bail. Clearly you're not a good match. 9 Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 It's funny you bring up the cheerleader narrative. My fiance was a cheerleader for OSU, gorgeous and offered a modelling contract in NYC for VS. Has past and present football players she knew in school offering her to become a WAG. Yet this woman is marrying me and has taken me to an expensive restaurant 2 out of the last 3 weekends despite the fact that I make considerably more than her. It's nice to be respected and loved without having to purchase . Reminds me of that playboy playmate who ended up living in a broken down trailer with some loser. A lot of women just don't have much self worth unfortunately. =/ db, this guy not only wants you to pay but doesn't even have the balls to tell you directly. Sliding the check over to your side, what a douche. He's one for the trash bin. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
smackie9 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 IMO I find this dude is a dud. A man that won't participate in feeding his own kids properly, and lets a women he has only been out on a few dates with to start taking care of them. BIG RED FLAG. Now he pushes the dinner bill towards you.This is only the beginning of how much of a wiener this guy is. Dump this chump. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
CollinW Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Reminds me of that playboy playmate who ended up living in a broken down trailer with some loser. A lot of women just don't have much self worth unfortunately. =/ Some men don't have any self worth either. Can't blame them considering there are so many female-identified men telling them they're value extends to how much they can willfully be exploited. Thank God for self assurance. Link to post Share on other sites
Maggie4 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Everytime this issue comes up, people start talking about gender equality. But actually it’s just that some people are generous and some are cheap, some are socially graceful, some can get tacky, some people are not constantly afraid of being taken advantage of, while others are keeping score. Think about how you pay when out with a friend of the same sex. I have girl friends that are cheap and girl friends that are generous. We’ve been getting together for 30 years. People don’t change their personality even when their financial situation changes. Men pay for each other too. Everyone has a buddy that’s extra cheap ... and you’re not ready to date if you don’t have friends. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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