Ladies, Would You Date a 39-Year-Old Physics Grad Student?

[littleblackheart]

Oh. The thread specifically asks “ladies” if they would date a 39 yo student man.

So yeah, gender comes into it.

If we are going to switch it. Same goes. I wouldn’t want to support a 42 yo woman who “will maybe get an awesome job some day”. How am I going to buy a house and support kids with someone who is earning 30k? I’ll not only be doing all the house work while he/she goes off to study or to their future potentially awesome job. I’ll be contributing majority of the bread. Dating for fun and friendship? Sure! Relationship? Nah. 50/50 is not a big ask.

 

You misunderstand me. A few of the male posters here were saying a man will not really care about a woman's professional achievements as long she has good looks; I think that's blatantly untrue and no man in his right mind would want to date me if I wasn't at the very least financially stable (which I am) regardless of my looks. Men's level of interest have never really been an issue in any case.

 

About the intelligence thing.. my ex was a doctor who was super intelligent emotionally and academically (in his field). I also dated a window cleaner who was very intelligent and I had no trouble being “intellectually stimulated” by him. But maybe I don’t know any better as i don’t have a PhD. My point is not to rule out potential dates because you think they can’t keep up. Otherwise you’re just a snob who doesn’t even have the piece of paper to back it up.

 

80% of my colleagues have PhDs, most of my friends don't - I see no notable difference in levels of emotional intelligence. I don't know where the 'snob' thing comes in, however; sure some academically intelligent people can be haughty, but they're not the majority. Having a PhD doesn't make you a 'snob' by default...

 

In any event, I don't date, but that's not because of anything other than I don't want to. If I did, intellectual curiosity, kindness and a non-judgemental open mind would rank high; not the salary or the diploma.

 

Anyway.

 

Good luck, OP.

Edited March 17, 2018 by littleblackheart

[guest569]

Sorry, the snob comment was about OP and several others suggesting that by having a PhD it will be hard to find an intellectual “equal” who is enough to keep them stimulated. If you think that snobs are a minority in academia then let’s agree to disagree on that one

[TheFinalWord]

2. Becoming a Full Professor is actually much more challenging than getting a PhD. You need a PhD to become a Full Professor, but then you need to get hired by a University (many more PhDs than University openings), and then in the next 7 years you not only have to do research but you have to bring in grants, mentor students, give talks on your research to quite a high level...basically you have to wear a bunch of hats really well. And if you don't get Tenure--many do not--there are plenty more people behind you for the University to hire. (Sort of OT from the original topic but definitely worth mentioning.)

 

Not only do you have to be good at teaching, research, and service, you also have to play quite a bit of politics.

 

Normally, there is actually a rank between assistant and full professor: Associate. Going from assistant to associate takes about 7 years. Going from associate to full takes another 5-10. A lot of faculty obtain tenure at associate rank, and never do the extra work to get the next level of promotion. All in all, it takes 15-20 years to go through all the levels of promotion. The best perk of being a full professor is you can apply for sabbatical and write a book, work on some project, or do a fulbright and teach in another country.

Edited March 17, 2018 by TheFinalWord

[CptInsano]

I feel like I got my original question answered on this thread, so if everyone wants to talk about whatever else, I guess that’s fine. I think that there were also some good points made about status and being “elite” that were useful for me.

 

I’m still not sure how effective online dating will be for me. Maybe I’ll just have to try it. I did create a profile on Coffee Meets Bagel, and we’ll see how that goes. My biggest concern here is that the nature of online dating requires people to decide in two-thirds of a second whether or not a prospect is worth getting to know further, and I would be concerned tha women would see “39-year-old grad student” and immediately swipe left, so to speak. Wheras if I meet people in person, there is more opportunty for connection and shared experience. Online dating allows people to screen specifically for looks, money, age, and status, all while making authentic connection more difficult. Which, in my opinion, is exactly why OLD doesn’t work as well as face-to-face meetings. Mutual friends are still the #1 way that people meet their spouses. I’ll give OLD my best shot, but I still think that meeting people in person will be more effective. I’m just not sure where to go for that yet.

 

In my experience this will strongly depend on your own preferences and abilities. If you have a decent circle of friends, have little trouble talking to people, then by all means use that to your advantage. Online dating is actually more work than it seems, because you have to very actively reach out, make decisions, and schedule meetings.

 

I've found meeting women IRL less cumbersome, because going out with friends or having parties was something I'd do anyhow. If you can tweak your activities a little it shouldn't be that hard. It also felt far less forced than what I experienced through online dating. Then again, I had friends in their early 40s set up to six dates a week through online dating, finishing the whole process of finding the "mother of their children" in three months. I'm not sure I could do that.

[CptInsano]

but being a medical doctor at the age 35 is the equivalent of finishing your PhD at 42, especially because age is an important factor in medicine - both myself and the OP are about 10 years behind from our peers (in my country's educational system, students become doctors aged 25 & get their PhDs aged 31/32) - i entered a job market for the first time ever at 34 & the OP will at 41... that's not really that much of a difference so i think our situations are comparable. the only difference is that my field is, by default, employable - his, not so much.

 

If he is halfway good at what he does I would hire him for 80k myself. That is below the current average salary where I lived in California. I found his statement to be modest, actually. I made more than that in California with an MSc in physics almost 20 years ago.

[No_Go]

as a medical student... i was ALREAD working full time.

just wanted to clarify this - i wasn't working while being a med student; i wanted to say that, to me, being a med student was a full time job. as a student, going to the lectures 5hrs a day & studying for about 7,8 hrs a day felt like a much bigger work than, for example, a work of our university's secretary who played Tetris 90% of her "full time job"; that being said... PhD is also a kind of JOB.

 

Exactly!

 

I can't believe people don't understand that PhD training IS a full-time JOB. I did mine in Europe and 1) I was getting a salary (middle of the road for the country) 2) paying ~45% taxes 3) having a fixed schedule (I used to work overtime by choice) 4) having a retirement account 5) saving ~10% every month out of the retirement account 6) having to overlook students and technicians 7) conference travel (~5 times per year)

 

The only difference with a 'regular' job is that the term was fixed to 4 years. So technically a contract work.

 

Tell me how is that NOT a job and why people act aloof that grad students are slackers delaying getting into 'real life' whatever this means...

[thefooloftheyear]

Exactly!

 

I can't believe people don't understand that PhD training IS a full-time JOB. I did mine in Europe and 1) I was getting a salary (middle of the road for the country) 2) paying ~45% taxes 3) having a fixed schedule (I used to work overtime by choice) 4) having a retirement account 5) saving ~10% every month out of the retirement account 6) having to overlook students and technicians 7) conference travel (~5 times per year)

 

The only difference with a 'regular' job is that the term was fixed to 4 years. So technically a contract work.

 

 

Tell me how is that NOT a job and why people act aloof that grad students are slackers delaying getting into 'real life' whatever this means...

 

 

Because you don't get paid to do it,(you have to pay to get it) and it doesn't guarantee that you will be paid well when you finish...At the end of the day, some of those people may wind up floundering like many other flounderers who slacked along in life...Do I say this of the OP? well, no.....

 

In your case, it sounds like you already were working in your chosen field, and this was part of on the job training? Correct me if I am wrong...Because if people can get paid to just go to school, then Id expect a mass pilgrimage to those countries that offer that....I may even go there myself..

 

TFY

[thefooloftheyear]

well... that depends on a LOT of things - for example: loans... now, in America, student loans are normal. i'm European and where i come from - education is free for EVERYONE, rarely do students feel the need to get loans and even when they do... it's a very small amount. so while a regular American will be crushed with a student loan by the time they finish their education... i wasn't. nobody in my environment ever needed to get a student loan.

 

also - house & car; in my case... i inherited a house from my parents & they bought me a car when i was 25. so it definitely matters what kind of family you're coming from - it's not the same when you have parents to financially back you up & when you're all alone, starting from 0. in terms of money, it's not the same.

.

 

Your case is not typical...Most students come out of school with a pile of debt, living in a shytty apartment with roommates to share the load, and then start their work life typically as the "low man on the totem pole", then gradually work their way up...That's the way it works here for most people..

 

Not that many people are getting a free ride, a new car and a free house from their parents at the age of 25....That's a fantasy, here anyway...I'd even go as far to say that of the people that can do it(heck, I could for my daughter when she's 25), wont because the parents want to see their kids go about it by way of working like everyone else, they'll help when they need to but I don't know anyone that does this for their kids at that age, even the ones that can...Good for you...

 

Anyway, ,my point is if you start the way the OP is, then it's a good bet that he wont have enough work years to dig out of debt, pay off a house, etc..

 

Take this from probably the most fit and energetic over 50 year old guy you will ever meet....I get by at this point in my life by way of guile, 30 yrs of life/career experience, and the fact that I am financially independent and have been for some time...If I had to do the same things now as I did in my late 20's/30's, by paying my dues, taking all the shyt one has to in order to achieve those goals, working very long hours, etc, the reality is that I probably wouldn't be able to do it...

 

Depending on what a typical quality woman at that age wants out of a man at his stage, It's a very tall order...I do wish him all the best..

 

TFY

Edited March 18, 2018 by thefooloftheyear

[No_Go]

Because you don't get paid to do it,(you have to pay to get it) and it doesn't guarantee that you will be paid well when you finish...At the end of the day, some of those people may wind up floundering like many other flounderers who slacked along in life...Do I say this of the OP? well, no.....

 

In your case, it sounds like you already were working in your chosen field, and this was part of on the job training? Correct me if I am wrong...Because if people can get paid to just go to school, then Id expect a mass pilgrimage to those countries that offer that....I may even go there myself..

 

TFY

 

TFY - actually I wasn’t - but it the Netherlands PhD candidates are considered employees not students. You don’t have classes (you do this in a preceding masters degree you have to take) and are salaried (your title is something like ‘junior researcher’ if I translate it directly). I think another country using the same structure is Denmark. Actually they paid me for my postdoctoral training in the US as well, I lucked out because I used European money when euro to dollar ratio was high so I ended up getting over 80K yearly during this training..

 

Of course that’s just my specific case, but it’s just to illustrate my point higher degrees are technically work not education. Although I admit if I didn’t go that route I’d have been making double at the same age... and I will also admit I would have thought twice to do it after 30 (I finished at 28 and was very concerned I’m getting too old for that....)... but I’m respecting other people’s decisions...

[littleblackheart]

Correct me if I am wrong...Because if people can get paid to just go to school, then Id expect a mass pilgrimage to those countries that offer that....I may even go there myself..

 

TFY

 

I got a fellowship to do mine - I paid zero, and received a bursary. I was also paid a salary in exchange for some teaching duties.

 

There are huge misconceptions around what a PhD is, and what it takes to both be accepted to do one (firstly, you have got to have the grades, then you have to demonstrate how your reseach is contributing to your chosen field, and it has to be original) and to complete it.

 

It is twice as hard for a mature student to be accepted onto a PhD programme; it's a very selective process.

 

And yes, it is considered a job.

 

I wish people would actually look into this before making assumptions based on their own prejudices or what their friends have done - reverse snobbery is no better than snobbery, really. I don't have the skills to fix a car or build a house - that doesn't mean I'm going to demean those who do.

 

Ultimately, if you can't see the value in what someone else does, and you are not prepared to make an effort to understand what they do or where they come from, this is a fundamental incompatibility. It's totally fine, though I don't see what you gain from undervaluing those do differently to you. Yes I know, it works both ways but if everyone keeps the same mindset forever, we'll be at a perennial stalemate.

[GoodOnPaper]

Because you don't get paid to do it,(you have to pay to get it) and it doesn't guarantee that you will be paid well when you finish...At the end of the day, some of those people may wind up floundering like many other flounderers who slacked along in life...Do I say this of the OP? well, no.....

 

In your case, it sounds like you already were working in your chosen field, and this was part of on the job training? Correct me if I am wrong...Because if people can get paid to just go to school, then Id expect a mass pilgrimage to those countries that offer that....I may even go there myself..

 

TFY

 

I only know about the US, but here in the sciences, virtually every PhD student has their tuition waived and is paid a stipend to either be a teaching assistant for their department or a research assistant if their advisor has grant funding. These stipends aren’t nearly what you’d make once you are finished with your degree (about $15K per year back in the early ‘90s when I was a grad student and I think they run around $25K now). In the social sciences and humanities, these assistantships are much fewer and farther between, so most of those students have to pay their way through school.

[Els]

If he is halfway good at what he does I would hire him for 80k myself. That is below the current average salary where I lived in California. I found his statement to be modest, actually. I made more than that in California with an MSc in physics almost 20 years ago.

 

This is interesting - did you really make >$80k/year in your very first job as soon as you graduated with a MSc in physics?

 

If this is indeed the average graduate salary in California, the living costs must be astronomical!

[minimariah]

Because you don't get paid to do it...

 

that does not mean that you are not working, it certainly does not mean that you're slacking in life - in fact, it is nonsensical to claim that a PhD student is slacking in life. those who are slacking, they don't really make it further than community college.

 

and yes, in most fields - PhD actually raises your chances of getting a better job. in my field, it literally raises your salary, automatically.

 

Because if people can get paid to just go to school, then Id expect a mass pilgrimage to those countries that offer that....I may even go there myself..

 

you're forgetting one thing - those countries and those universities do not accept foreigners; on my university in Berlin, Germany... they have about 10 spots for foreigners + they have to pay the tuitition because they don't have the right to to have the same benefits as Germans and other EU students. there were about 300 applications, mostly from Americans, to those 10 spots... when i studied.

 

students are paid through various scholarships and benefits - additional healthcare, cheaper rents, places in student apartments, cheaper food, cheaper prices for cinema or cultural events, free public transport... some universities offer those benefits to PhD students, as well. when i was a student, i was living comfortably with 300 dollars a month and that covered EVERYTHING, from rent and books to wild nights out.

 

not saying that is the case with the OP, just trying to make things a bit more clear - to be honest... i am surprised with the responses, especially from Americans and Canadians. your entire culture is based on the "everything is possible dreamland" and i would think that... if there is a country you can suceed with a PhD at the age 41, than that's America.

 

at 39 - i believe the OP knows what he is doing. everybody seems to treat him as some kind of lunatic who doesn't know what he got himself into... i mean, if he didn't have money, if he was broke - he wouldn't do a PhD.

 

besides - he is working and getting SOME money.

 

Anyway, ,my point is if you start the way the OP is, then it's a good bet that he wont have enough work years to dig out of debt, pay off a house, etc..

 

but he will - he will have about... 25 or something years (not sure what the retirement age is in the USA) which is enough to pay off his debts & have a decent house or an apartment. maybe he won't have kids so he won't spend money on them. you said you made your dreams into reality in 30 years, yes? so why shouldn't it happen for the OP, when he has similar timeframe?

 

...wont because the parents want to see their kids go about it by way of working like everyone else, they'll help when they need to but I don't know anyone that does this for their kids at that age, even the ones that can...

 

i literally see news and posts about 16year old Americans who get cars for birthdays from their parents - so i think you're wrong on that one.

[minimariah]

...and I will also admit I would have thought twice to do it after 30 (I finished at 28 and was very concerned I’m getting too old for that....)... but I’m respecting other people’s decisions...

 

age is definitely a factor - when you're younger... you will have more chances, the employer WILL choose a younger & more experienced worker than an older one with 0 working experience... naturally.

 

however - it is possible to suceed even with a PhD in your forties. people on here are writing as if the OP will end up being unemployable and live on food stamps for the rest of his life.

 

i mean, i HAD that fear! i thought that, at 34, i would be completely unemployable as a doctor because other doctors were 24/25 on average. i umderstood the risk and took it anyway, i assume that is the case for the OP too. everyone assuming that he has no idea how hard it will be, i guess, are people who would NEVER take that kind of risk so they cannot relate to the OP. that's cool too, we all have our paths.

[CptInsano]

This is interesting - did you really make >$80k/year in your very first job as soon as you graduated with a MSc in physics? [/Quote]

 

No, that took me two to three years, but I was still in my 20s. But adjusted for inflation, and depending on his type of work the OP did, this salary really isn't unrealistic. Keep in mind that I also don't have a PhD. By 30 I was making significantly more than that, but we are talking Silicon Valley here.

 

If this is indeed the average graduate salary in California, the living costs must be astronomical!

 

Absolutely, where I lived the current average salary is now 90k, and that is part of the East Bay. I'm sure things are vastly different in the Central Valley.

Edited March 19, 2018 by CptInsano

[CptInsano]

[...]

and yes, in most fields - PhD actually raises your chances of getting a better job. in my field, it literally raises your salary, automatically.[...]

 

Only if you can stay within your field and if that field is very regulated. Otherwise it is more what made you able to get a PhD in the first place which you may be able to apply in a different career. (There is somewhat of a cultural bias, too. I know that the private sector in Germany values the PhD far more than the US does.)

 

In the worst case it can happen that after some time in postdoc positions PhDs might find themselves being retrained for something for which a bachelor would be sufficient. It happened to some of the guys I studied with. It is perfectly possible that the supply for PhDs in a field outpaces the demand.

 

But I doubt the OP will have that problem.

[thefooloftheyear]

]that does not mean that you are not working, it certainly does not mean that you're slacking in life - in fact, it is nonsensical to claim that a phd student is slacking in life. Those who are slacking, they don't really make it further than community college.

 

Beg to differ....i know plenty of broke and lazy people that have advanced degrees...all? Of course not,,,,but they do exist...I wouldn't even say they are rare...My own aunt spoke several languages, held two Ph'ds and was, in her mind, considered brilliant....She lived in a hovel and she died owing me several thousand to help pay her bills and assist her with a hair brained business idea that flopped...I am not bitter about the money, she's family, but please don't try to sell me on this concept..

 

and yes, in most fields - phd actually raises your chances of getting a better job. In my field, it literally raises your salary, automatically.

but it doesn't guarantee you can get/keep that job, advance, etc...you still have to apply what you learn and turn it into dollars...some succeed, some don't...

 

 

you're forgetting one thing - those countries and those universities do not accept foreigners; on my university in berlin, germany... They have about 10 spots for foreigners + they have to pay the tuitition because they don't have the right to to have the same benefits as germans and other eu students. There were about 300 applications, mostly from americans, to those 10 spots... When i studied.

i live here and so does the op....don't care what happens there..good for you . I guess..

 

students are paid through various scholarships and benefits - additional healthcare, cheaper rents, places in student apartments, cheaper food, cheaper prices for cinema or cultural events, free public transport... Some universities offer those benefits to phd students, as well. When i was a student, i was living comfortably with 300 dollars a month and that covered everything, from rent and books to wild nights out.

again, good for you...

 

 

not saying that is the case with the op, just trying to make things a bit more clear - to be honest... I am surprised with the responses, especially from americans and canadians. Your entire culture is based on the "everything is possible dreamland" and i would think that... If there is a country you can suceed with a phd at the age 41, than that's america.

 

At 39 - i believe the op knows what he is doing. Everybody seems to treat him as some kind of lunatic who doesn't know what he got himself into... I mean, if he didn't have money, if he was broke - he wouldn't do a phd.

don't be dramatic...no one called him a lunatic...about all people are saying is that hes starting this late, and quite possibly will get some push back from women his age that will expect most guys at his age to own a house, cars, have money in the bank, etc....that's what appeals to most high quality women at that stage...i'm not even taking into account the women with the sand running out of their bio clock and need a kid NOW....they want a stable guy that can carry her if needed....not necessarily a guy that if he made 80 k here couldn't live under a bridge in a refrigerator box...

 

 

 

but he will - he will have about... 25 or something years (not sure what the retirement age is in the usa) which is enough to pay off his debts & have a decent house or an apartment. Maybe he won't have kids so he won't spend money on them. You said you made your dreams into reality in 30 years, yes? So why shouldn't it happen for the op, when he has similar timeframe?

 

I actually did it in way less time than 30 and I am probably the least intelligent one participating in this thread.....But, anyway, the 30 year interval of time between when a person is 25-55 in LIGHT YEARS different than the 30 year period from 40-70...Hell, there is even a fairly good chance he wont make it that long or at the very least spends the second half with some sort of debilitating medical condition...And.what if he has kids? Most people naturally slow down after 50...i know this from experience...the difference is some of us don't have to do anything at this point...we have it on cruise now...that's why you do this stuff when you are young...so when you reach the "slow down" period, you can tell the rat race and the working world to eff off.....It's a great feeling, really...

 

 

 

i literally see news and posts about 16year old americans who get cars for birthdays from their parents - so i think you're wrong on that one.

sure...they buy them a second hand car....not a free ride and a house like you got....that doesn't happen here unless someone dies...good for you that your parents were so kind/wealthy...

 

 

 

Look...I don't know why this turned into a "defend my Ph'd" thread...I take my hat off to all of you...But if he didn't suspect that maybe he might have an issue attracting women, he probably wouldn't have started the thread, no??

 

 

TFY...........

Edited March 19, 2018 by thefooloftheyear

[Els]

No, that took me two to three years, but I was still in my 20s. But adjusted for inflation, and depending on his type of work the OP did, this salary really isn't unrealistic. Keep in mind that I also don't have a PhD. By 30 I was making significantly more than that, but we are talking Silicon Valley here.

 

 

 

Absolutely, where I lived the current average salary is now 90k, and that is part of the East Bay. I'm sure things are vastly different in the Central Valley.

 

There is a very big difference between an "average salary" and an "average graduate salary", though. The former doesn't really apply to the OP, and average salaries are typically almost twice what the average graduate salary is. Taking on a fresh grad who has never worked in the field before is almost like taking on a student - they have the theoretical knowledge (if they did well in school), but they will still be learning the ropes in a practical sense, will take longer to do things and make more mistakes, you have to invest the time and effort of more experienced workers into teaching them, and you have to hope that your investment will be worth it - that they won't jump ship as soon as they learn the ropes in 2-3 years' time. The salaries reflect this.

 

My field (tech) has a very high average salary, but a low salary for those with zero experience. In fact, even getting a JOB with zero experience is very rare, regardless of your level of academic qualification. It is expected that students will take on internships and work on their own projects as students so that they can demonstrate some sort of experience when they apply for jobs. I get that other fields may be different, but I actually do know a Physics PhD who is currently working as a banker because he couldn't find a well-paying job in his field. He is currently being paid quite well since he has been there for 4+ years, but he did have to start from scratch.

 

It would be good to hear exactly what jobs the OP is gunning for and how he arrived at his estimated graduate salary, if he's interested in discussing the topic further.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Elswyth

[CptInsano]

I get that other fields may be different, but I actually do know a Physics PhD who is currently working as a banker because he couldn't find a well-paying job in his field. He is currently being paid quite well since he has been there for 4+ years, but he did have to start from scratch.

 

It would be good to hear exactly what jobs the OP is gunning for and how he arrived at his estimated graduate salary, if he's interested in discussing the topic further.

 

Yes, a lot of it will depend on the OP. My first job was ironically also at a bank. I was teamed up with a recent MBA, and we both ran a small operational department of about 40 people. I got the job because I had a background in robotics and was able to code for and maintain their check processing equipment, especially the imaging side of things.

 

The OP may have also picked up capabilities that made him very employable. Others may have not, and the degree alone doesn't determine that. If the OP says he'll make 80k after graduation it is however well within the realm of possibilities. People will at least recognize his degree. Mine was from a foreign university, and my employers simply had to take my word for it.

[minimariah]

Beg to differ....i know plenty of broke and lazy people that have advanced degrees...

 

no - you do not.

 

broke & unsuccessful do not mean LAZY - your aunt was not lazy, she was unsuccessful. in order to get a PhD degree, you have to be a GOOD student and have good grades. in order to have good grades, you have to work hard & you have to study. so claiming that people with multiple degrees and PhDs are lazy is an oxymoron.

 

you don't seem to value anything other than MONEY, money and some more money - if a person isn't making money or is making little - to you, that's lazy. and that's understandable for someone who does not have a higher education & therefeore, cannot appreciate it or understand the amount of actual work a student puts in.

 

...that's what appeals to most high quality women at that stage...

 

i am almost afraid to ask you what you consider a HIGH QUALITY woman. it is incredibly rude to imply that the OP will be rejected by "high quality woman" and if there is a woman who will want to date him - she must not be a quality one at all. your views are.... umm, interesting.

 

that's why you do this stuff when you are young...so when you reach the "slow down" period, you can tell the rat race and the working world to eff off.....It's a great feeling, really...

 

yes - i assume it is a great feeling, a great relief when you can "tell the working world to eff off" after spending 30 years at a job you hate - i hope i never get to experience it!

 

But if he didn't suspect that maybe he might have an issue attracting women, he probably wouldn't have started the thread, no??

 

instead of giving him dating advices - people on here are giving him business advices and want to discuss his business plan and job offers - that's not the topic.

Edited March 19, 2018 by minimariah

[littleblackheart]

People embarking on a PhD are not, generally speaking, principally money driven. Unless you understand why people undertake a PhD, you will not get this, regardless of what country you live in. Evidently, this is a very difficult notion to grasp for those whom a big salary is your only sign of success.

 

In the real word, which is not polluted with people who struggle to fathom how the pursuit of intellectual enrichment can be a reward in its own right, there will be women who will look beyond OP's salary either now or once he graduates, even at his age, and will find OP's journey interesting enough to give him a chance based on whatever took him to get there. Those who are risk-averse, money-driven or have no interest in academic pursuits (all totally fine) probably won't. Patronising, condescending, reverse snobbery aside, different doesn't mean wrong, bad, or not 'high quality'.

 

This thread has been insightful for all the wrong reasons.

Edited March 19, 2018 by littleblackheart

[CptInsano]

People embarking on a PhD are not, generally speaking, principally money driven. Unless you understand why people undertake a PhD, you will not get this, regardless of what country you live in. Evidently, this is a very difficult notion to grasp for those whom a big salary is your only sign of success.

[...]

 

Sorry, but I can't agree on this one. Certain very lucrative fields require a PhD, and in some countries it is hard to get into senior management without one. Also, quite a number positions within academia are not at all that badly compensated, especially if you consider all the benefits.

 

Without knowing what motivated a person it is simply very hard to tell, even within the same field.

[littleblackheart]

Sorry, but I can't agree on this one. Certain very lucrative fields require a PhD, and in some countries it is hard to get into senior management without one. Also, quite a number positions within academia are not at all that badly compensated, especially if you consider all the benefits.

 

Without knowing what motivated a person it is simply very hard to tell, even within the same field.

 

I know. I'm saying some don't mind delaying 'big rewards' by undertaking a PhD. It's a 'risk' someone will take not only for future financial gain, but also for personal enrichment. Money-driven people will not want to wait for the financial rewards, which is all relative anyway.

 

It just gets tiring to read disparaging comments borne of narrow-mindedness.

Edited March 19, 2018 by littleblackheart

[CptInsano]

I know. I'm saying some don't mind delaying 'big rewards' by undertaking a PhD. It's a 'risk' someone will taje not only for future financial gain, but also for personal enrichment.

 

Yes, a PhD is somewhat of a gamble. It may provide that career boost or the personal statisfaction, or you may find yourself working long hours for little pay without a clear career progression. But at the end of the it's mainly a specialization, for whatever that is worth.

 

A development manager I knew had HR look at the resumes, and he did not. He simply locked himself into an office with each candidate for about an hour, working on an imaginary problem, usually a flight tracking system. Maybe he was onto something.

[littleblackheart]

But at the end of the it's mainly a specialization, for whatever that is worth.

 

That's exactly where the heart of the matter is. If you can't value what someone is doing other than in monetary terms, whatever it is, that's a big incompatibility. You don't have to understand it, but you don't need to demean it either (general you).