"Boyfriend" doesn't know how to be a boyfriend

[lovelies25]

Thanks so much again to everyone for their thoughts and advice. There's a lot here so may not respond to everything, but my general responses:

 

- For background and some more context, we met ~4 years ago and got together at that time. As I mentioned, he didn't really have dating experience, but for those who have suggested that either it's a line he uses to get women into bed, or that he's not serious or just wants a no strings attached relationship, it's not that - he had barely been involved with women before me at all, other than maybe some very minor (and fairly innocent) crushes/"flings", though I hesitate to call them flings because he had done very little before meeting me. This doesn't come from "lines" he has fed me or anything like that - this is based on what mutual friends told me when we first met and we had barely even started talking, so it wasn't even in the context of me and him dating, it was more just general conversation and it wasn't until after that that I started seeing him. He has been really attached to me ever since we met and seemed to have a lot of trouble getting over me even when we were broken up. Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, at the time we didn't know if the relationship could actually go anywhere due to religious differences, so it wasn't that long (probably less than a year) before we called it quits. That being said, we have remained friends since then and have been sort of on and off in that time. I was dating (as Gaeta pointed out) but he and I would still see each other occasionally and end up getting together (but it would usually lead to a "this was a mistake, we shouldn't keep doing this" kind of conversation). During most of that time though he was always trying to get back together and has never wavered on saying he wants to be with me and that he couldn't let me go but at the same time was still struggling with whether or not the religious differences would be an issue, but I've been the one to say no because I don't want to waste my time if it would never actually go anywhere. It was only recently that he told me that he had decided not to let those differences stop us from at least trying to make this work, so I've only been thinking about this for the last couple of weeks because we are just "officially" getting back into things now. I hope that clarifies things for people a bit. That's why it hasn't really been worth it before now to express any dissatisfaction.

 

When we had this discussion a few weeks ago I already did tell him that if we are going to try this again I'm going to need this to be a more serious relationship than we've had in the past, and he was not averse to that, so my issue is more how to express to him what I want without trying to define exactly how he should behave or trying to mandate specific behaviors. It's not that I care specifically about going out to nice restaurants, getting flowers, getting arbitrary "how are you" texts - it's that I am struggling with how to explain to him my general expectations of what it means to be in a relationship, in a way that he would understand but also not be overwhelmed by, and in a way that isn't like "you must do XYZ". None of the specific actions matter that much on their own, it's more the general perspective and approach to a relationship, however that may play out. I don't think his parents were very romantic at all (where as my dad doesn't do big or lavish gestures but is still very thoughtful and sweet in the little things) so I don't think there was ever an example like that set for him.

 

Finally, to answer one of the other questions that has been floating around, we have talked about our long term priorities and I think we are on the same page. I've made it very clear that if we are going to date, marriage is the end goal (or if it becomes clear that marriage is not what we want, then I would not continue seeing him). He has always been on board with that since he takes marriage very seriously and is not the type to date casually.

 

Hope that helps answer some questions and provide additional context and again, I really do appreciate everyone's input.

[Gaeta]

Thank you for that additional info.

 

Was he raised in a closed off religious community or sect?

 

Otherwise I don't understand how someone in 2018 be so clueless about basic courtesy. I mean he's in his 30s, does he have a social life? does he have male friends? at his age he should have a clue (or 2) on how women want to be treated. Even 18 years old male who never dated know what girls like!

[lovelies25]

Nope, not raised in a closed off community/sect. I completely agree, I don't understand how a man in 2018 could be clueless about these kinds of things, but I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt/find some explanation. It might be more appropriate to say not that he is completely clueless and unaware of how a typical (decent) guy treats a girl he's in a relationship with, but maybe it's more just that as someone else noted, everyone has their own ways of expressing love and maybe he thinks the kinds of things I am looking for aren't necessary for showing someone you love them (and I can understand the thinking behind that). I know that for him, loving someone may mean sharing his faith with them, among other things. And since he has never dated anyone else before, he's never been in a situation where any woman has challenged him on that or pushed him to make more of an effort to show love in other ways.

[Fridita]

Nope, not raised in a closed off community/sect. I completely agree, I don't understand how a man in 2018 could be clueless about these kinds of things, but I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt/find some explanation. It might be more appropriate to say not that he is completely clueless and unaware of how a typical (decent) guy treats a girl he's in a relationship with, but maybe it's more just that as someone else noted, everyone has their own ways of expressing love and maybe he thinks the kinds of things I am looking for aren't necessary for showing someone you love them (and I can understand the thinking behind that). I know that for him, loving someone may mean sharing his faith with them, among other things. And since he has never dated anyone else before, he's never been in a situation where any woman has challenged him on that or pushed him to make more of an effort to show love in other ways.

 

Do you know something about his childhood?

 

btw, try to check schizoid personality disorder, it seems that he could be schizoid

[Purepony]

Thanks so much again to everyone for their thoughts and advice. There's a lot here so may not respond to everything, but my general responses:

 

- For background and some more context, we met ~4 years ago and got together at that time. As I mentioned, he didn't really have dating experience, but for those who have suggested that either it's a line he uses to get women into bed, or that he's not serious or just wants a no strings attached relationship, it's not that - he had barely been involved with women before me at all, other than maybe some very minor (and fairly innocent) crushes/"flings", though I hesitate to call them flings because he had done very little before meeting me. This doesn't come from "lines" he has fed me or anything like that - this is based on what mutual friends told me when we first met and we had barely even started talking, so it wasn't even in the context of me and him dating, it was more just general conversation and it wasn't until after that that I started seeing him. He has been really attached to me ever since we met and seemed to have a lot of trouble getting over me even when we were broken up. Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, at the time we didn't know if the relationship could actually go anywhere due to religious differences, so it wasn't that long (probably less than a year) before we called it quits. That being said, we have remained friends since then and have been sort of on and off in that time. I was dating (as Gaeta pointed out) but he and I would still see each other occasionally and end up getting together (but it would usually lead to a "this was a mistake, we shouldn't keep doing this" kind of conversation). During most of that time though he was always trying to get back together and has never wavered on saying he wants to be with me and that he couldn't let me go but at the same time was still struggling with whether or not the religious differences would be an issue, but I've been the one to say no because I don't want to waste my time if it would never actually go anywhere. It was only recently that he told me that he had decided not to let those differences stop us from at least trying to make this work, so I've only been thinking about this for the last couple of weeks because we are just "officially" getting back into things now. I hope that clarifies things for people a bit. That's why it hasn't really been worth it before now to express any dissatisfaction.

 

When we had this discussion a few weeks ago I already did tell him that if we are going to try this again I'm going to need this to be a more serious relationship than we've had in the past, and he was not averse to that, so my issue is more how to express to him what I want without trying to define exactly how he should behave or trying to mandate specific behaviors. It's not that I care specifically about going out to nice restaurants, getting flowers, getting arbitrary "how are you" texts - it's that I am struggling with how to explain to him my general expectations of what it means to be in a relationship, in a way that he would understand but also not be overwhelmed by, and in a way that isn't like "you must do XYZ". None of the specific actions matter that much on their own, it's more the general perspective and approach to a relationship, however that may play out. I don't think his parents were very romantic at all (where as my dad doesn't do big or lavish gestures but is still very thoughtful and sweet in the little things) so I don't think there was ever an example like that set for him.

 

Finally, to answer one of the other questions that has been floating around, we have talked about our long term priorities and I think we are on the same page. I've made it very clear that if we are going to date, marriage is the end goal (or if it becomes clear that marriage is not what we want, then I would not continue seeing him). He has always been on board with that since he takes marriage very seriously and is not the type to date casually.

 

Hope that helps answer some questions and provide additional context and again, I really do appreciate everyone's input.

 

 

 

Ok so you are bothered over the affection part but you make excuses for him.

 

Whatever the reasons for him being that way won’t make a difference, the question here is are you okay with his attitude on a long term basis ?

 

You have great sexual chemistry you have similar goals and commitment but he’s not excited about you or to see you etc can you accept that because as many have said he probably won’t change

[ExpatInItaly]

I don’t think this man wants to become your boyfriend, OP.

 

As I understand it, he also hasn’t actually told you he wants to be in an official relationship with you again either.

 

His non-commital attitude with you is a reflection of this.

[lana-banana]

I don’t think this man wants to become your boyfriend, OP.

 

As I understand it, he also hasn’t actually told you he wants to be in an official relationship with you again either.

 

His non-commital attitude with you is a reflection of this.

 

I have to agree with this. Despite what you said in your previous post, I'm not at all convinced you and this guy are on the same page at all. Does he really think of himself as your boyfriend now, or are you just "dating"?

 

It's not too much to ask to have regular check-ins and say kind, supportive and sweet things about each other. It's not clear why you're settling for this.

[lovelies25]

Sorry if I haven't been clear or if any of my posts have been confusing - there's a lot of random detail here and there so I'm trying not to overload (even though I know I've already said a ton...) and also trying not to include a ton of identifying detail about him/our conversations, etc.

 

If anything, we were not on the same page before when we were split up - I was acting more single whereas he really resisted ever accepting that we were not dating anymore. Also, he referred to me as his girlfriend (in the past) and recently when we had these latest conversations I told him that I was surprised because I never considered myself his girlfriend because I didn't think our relationship had ever reached that level of intimacy and seriousness, and he was surprised to hear that. And I explained (briefly) that I had never considered him my bf because we never do things together or make plans with each other and aren't really informed about each other's lives.

 

So I know he considered me his girlfriend before and I know he wants to go back to what we had before, but he also now knows that in my eyes, a relationship requires more than our previous level of interaction in order for me to consider it bf/gf level, and he has said he is willing to work on that, I just don't know the best way to move forward from here in a way that will nudge him but not be overbearing and insisting on a specific course of action. Also, during the time that we split up, I once made a comment about how we weren't currently together, and his response was to say that he always considered us "together", just that he kind of lost me for a period of time. I know he's serious because as I said he's not the type to date casually, and he has pretty clearly told me that it's been hard for him to let go because he could see himself spending his life with me and has said various things along those lines which all relate to being committed for life. Trust me, for a long time I was desperately trying to get him to move on and stop trying to hold onto me and it was impossible to do - that has only stopped because he finally decided he wouldn't let religion stand in the way. A lot of this is only happening because he has never really given up on us being together - I was trying to date and move on for a long time so if it wasn't for his persistence and stubbornness (which at the time was super annoying), I wouldn't even be asking these questions.

 

I even told him (when we were broken up) that maybe he's only hung up on me because he's never dated anyone else and that maybe he would benefit from dating others, and he has been pretty clear on the fact that he has no desire to do that.

 

Fridita, unfortunately I don't know much about his childhood (at least, not enough that would be useful in this conversation). From what I could tell he had a normal enough childhood, nothing hugely out of the ordinary that I'm aware of. And thank you, I will definitely check out schizoid disorder.

[Gaeta]

Sorry if I haven't been clear or if any of my posts have been confusing - there's a lot of random detail here and there so I'm trying not to overload

Don't worry, we can handle a lot of details

 

And I explained (briefly) that I had never considered him my bf because we never do things together or make plans with each other and aren't really informed about each other's lives.

Ok so now we have established he's been informed you have relationship expectations, good.

 

I just don't know the best way to move forward from here in a way that will nudge him but not be overbearing and insisting on a specific course of action.

 

Men have different thought process than we do. They are really bad at identifying hints and reading between the lines. If you think giving him a *nudge* will have him start acting you will be disappointed.

 

Most men want to please us and want to become better men but they need to be shown the way, yes in details. If you ask a man to help you he'll stand there not knowing what exactly you need even if he's surrounded with dirty laundry and dust. *help me* is too vague to them.

 

Expecting your boyfriend to become your prince charming without giving him instructions is almost cruel to him, you are setting him up to fail.

 

So, I suggest this to you. Make a list of what you'd like for him * to do* and instruct him clearly how you like it to be done.

 

Example:

 

* I would like 1 date per week outside my home

* I would like we set up that date 48 hours ahead

* I would like you call me a few minutes before going to bed

* I would like you tell me childhood stories

 

etc...

 

Without a clear list I am afraid he will keep on disappointing you. It takes the romance out of everything but ...you want to be with him.

 

.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Gaeta

[Yosemite]

Why is this his first relationship? Is he socially awkward? There’s a reason a man doesn’t get into a relationship until his 30’s to the point where all his friends know and can confirm that he hasn’t been in a relationship before. So, what’s that reason?

 

This still sounds like FWB that you’re trying to turn into a standard relationship. If he’s on board with that too then he needs to start acting like it. IDK, how a man gets to be in his 30’s and doesn’t understand how to give a birthday gift or take his gf on a date. I mean that’s Basic Life 101.

 

You’re convinced that he wants a relationship with you but what proof do you have other than some words? If he wanted to be in a relationship with you, he would act like it. Believe his actions, not his words. And right now, his actions are saying that you’re his pipeline to effortless, last-minute sex. How do you know he even likes your personality if he barely wants to talk to you and doesn’t make any effort to stay up-to-date on your life?

 

Which is more likely, a man so clueless that he doesn’t know that he should set up a date with his gf or a man that’s in it for the sex and will keep calling for last minute sex as long as he doesn't have to make any effort to get it?

 

in 4+ years I think the most romantic thing he has done was when he made a dinner reservation in advance one time and that was honestly really surprising)

 

So, he can plan ahead and arrange a date, but he’s choosing not to. That choice not to says everything.

[Sundra1]

If you want that, you should communicate that, but be prepared that it may not swing that way. You can be nice to someone, but not want a relationship. Good people can like someone, but not enough to date. That's fine, but I would communicate your desires and depending on his response significantly maintain or cut back the level of investment.

 

First step would be to communicate (exclusivity, serious relationship, advancement, just casual).

 

Next step take responsibility for what you want and put things in place to pursue it. Harder to pursue something when your vision is blocked, clear your head. You are 100% responsible for not getting what you want. You have the option to leave, you have the option to stay, and you have the option to communicate. If you don't do those things the relationship will never be equal.

[lovelies25]

Thank you Gaeta, that's helpful.

 

Yosemite (and others) - I completely see your point, it's just hard for me to describe the situation. I know he's not like other men (for better or for worse) and I say that not with the purpose of saying this is why he's so important to me, but just that his experience and knowledge of the dating world is, for whatever reason, really out of tune with most other people, so it's hard to apply the standard ways of interpreting actions to him. I brought some of this up with him recently and he actually said if we want this to work, we should actually stop getting so physical with each other because doing so makes it too easy for him to get too focused on that side to the point that he loses focus on the more important things like getting to know each other, developing an actual foundation for a relationship, etc. It's things like that that make me believe that despite all odds, he's not just in it for the sex and somehow is clueless about some of these things, since he's never done a lot of these things (whether romantically or sexually) with anyone else before.

 

I think one reason we don't talk very much now is that we used to talk all the time when we first met, but after we broke up I tried to create distance because he wouldn't let go or accept the breakup, and since I was trying to move on I deliberately took a long time to respond to him, generally tried to discourage the intimate and playful banter that wasn't really appropriate for two people who are no longer together, etc. But during that time he would still put in a lot of effort to find reasons to text me and reach out to me (I guess because he had to if he wanted to see me). But now that we're getting back together, it's like I was too successful and that distance is still there in that we no longer talk to each other much between seeing each other. I don't know if it's because now he's reassured that he'll get to see me so he doesn't feel the need to try as hard, or if he's less interested, or what. But anyway, there's a bit of context and backstory for our communication...

 

Anyway, thanks everyone for all of your advice so far. And Sundra1 (and others), you're right I do need to communicate my needs/desires, I just want to be careful about how I go about it so that it doesn't scare him off or come across as overly demanding or needy (whether or not it's reasonable for me to be concerned about those things, I am).

 

I'm planning on talking to him soon and telling him how I feel and what I'm looking for and if he doesn't think he can or doesn't want to provide those things then he's free to leave but then he needs to let me find someone who does. Fingers crossed that I'm not overestimating how much he cares about me, but we'll see...

[Space Ritual]

OP,

 

you have a laundry list of expectations that sadly may never be attainable by the majority of guys you date. Doesn't make it wrong or right, just that it will be very hard to achieve for any guy who is totally invested in you. Think about this guy who is not that invested in you...

 

I agree with the others that you are really not getting anything out of it,

 

My opinion is that investing in a person who has already shown you mixed results at best is an exercise in Futility.

 

And life is way too short to be lamenting that the sex is great but the relationship is failing. Please please understand that Life is indeed far too short to devote time to a brick wall just because he can bang well.

 

4 years of this? Come on now.....You already know the answer.

[lovelies25]

Thanks, Space Ritual. Part of the reason any of this is even an issue for me is because everyone else I've dated has generally in the ways I've described (in their own ways, of course, and to varying extents). The only reason I've come to expect these things is because that's what I'm used to from my previous three relationships (which I realize isn't the biggest sample size ever, but the years I've spent in three different long term relationships have really cemented those expectations in my mind, so I have to actively tell myself that not everyone is like that).

 

And I know, you're right - life is too short to be wasting time, though I do want to clarify that it has been 4 years of knowing him but only ~1 year or so of officially dating him, the rest of the time was very sporadic and on and off. The problem, as I've tried to describe it, is that it's not just the sex - he is also a wonderful person and whereas every other guy I've dated treated me like a princess, it's also the case that for each of them (and many other guys I know), there is something about their character or personality or whatever that I would feel like I'm settling for. Here, there's nothing about him as an individual that I would be settling for, he has so many great qualities. It's just in the context of a relationship that he doesn't live up to expectations. And I'm not trying to diminish that or say that's somehow less important, I'm just trying to explain that that's why it's so much more tempting to try to address this issue than find another guy who is everything I'm looking for (considering how few I've met in my lifetime) who also has better "relationship sense". The thing is, there are negatives in how he treats me now but it falls more along the lines of inattention and lack of consideration, whereas even boyfriends who have treated me super well, even though they were all generally good guys, I also know they, and many other men, had the capacity to hurt me (not intentionally or physically) in ways that this one never would. It's hard to describe, but even though he's not at all attentive, I also know he is incredibly loyal, has very high moral standards, would never give me any reason to worry or be jealous about things like following half naked girls on Instagram or flirting with other women or getting wasted with his friends, etc.

 

Anyway, it could very well be that I'm wasting my time and he doesn't really care about me or at least doesn't care about having a real relationship, but just wanted to explain again where I'm coming from and why I'm trying so hard, because I want to make clear that if he were an average guy, I would completely agree with most of these posts and conclude that he's just not serious about me or not invested in me, it's just that he is most definitely not the average guy which is why I'm struggling.

[kassy]

I just think you are wasting time here. 4 years(only 1 officially dating but still) and this is the amount of issues.

 

You sound like you have been dating 3 months.

 

Agree with the other posters that you are not getting anything worthwhile back. You say you are so compatible and whatever... Yet none of that is coming across in any of your lengthy posts.

 

If you really must try and make this work. Have a big talk, lay out how a relationship would need to look for this to work for you. If in 6 months you aren't 95% there in the relationship you outlined, and happy and as in love as could be then just leave.

 

There are lots of great men in the world. While it can take some time to meet someone truly compatible... Well you don't have that now... And you won't meet them while dating someone else... So you don't have anything to lose. Actually every second you spend dating him takes you one more second not meeting a truly compatible partner.

 

So 6 months if you must before you go no contact on this guy. He isn't moving forwards with you, and just giving you barely enough to stop you moving forwards with someone else.

 

Enjoy being single, go meet great men and in about 18 months time when you meet Mr Wonderful you will be thinking why on earth did I waste 4 years of my life with this man.

 

Relationships that work, they work. When it's too hard and you hardly got off the ground then you need to move on. This should be mainly fun and good times. If it's hard now how hard will it be married with kids and a dog... Do yourself a favour and move on and find some other guy who is good for you

[Gaeta]

Anyway, it could very well be that I'm wasting my time and he doesn't really care about me or at least doesn't care about having a real relationship, but just wanted to explain again where I'm coming from and why I'm trying so hard, because I want to make clear that if he were an average guy, I would completely agree with most of these posts and conclude that he's just not serious about me or not invested in me, it's just that he is most definitely not the average guy which is why I'm struggling.

 

What is not 'average' about him? he sounds below average to me. He gives you no attention or consideration, how is that not below average?

 

So he won't cheat and he won't be following other women on social media? big deal... most men I know don't follow 'other women' on social media, they're regular guys who know how to handle themselves while in a relationship.

 

To me you are settling big time. You found some joe-blow that is not interested in social media and cheating so you'll settle for absence of dates, absence of consideration,lack of respect for your time, absence of meaningful conversation, and no real romantic connection.

[Lobouspo]

You mentioned he doesn't do all these other romantic and caring things guys did for you in the past. In general, what went wrong in past relationships?

[dispatch3d]

hummm you should turn your private messages on!

 

I think if you told him exactly the things you wrote here you would be off to a better start (probably minus the other guys like me thing, that's not gunna help anything). You are pretty good at articulating yourself and it shows. No better help between two people than getting things out in the open I think!

[ExpatInItaly]

OP, at the end of the day, if you're looking for a long-term, stable relationship, this isn't the guy for it.

 

He is not interested in being your full-time Numero Uno anymore. You just have not been able to accept it because it hurts too much.

[lovelies25]

Gaeta - I say he is not "average" because as I mentioned he is pretty religious, so I think most of his life his priorities and interests have been geared towards that so I think 1) his general priorities, values, the way he chooses to spend his time and money, etc. are quite different from almost everyone else I know in my peer and age group (e.g., would rather dedicate himself to volunteering than taking a fun trip with friends, for example), and 2) he has no experience in pursuing women and to the extent he had little flings or flirtations in the past, he said he cut them off after not too long (i.e., physically speaking, they probably did nothing more than make out) because he knew he didn't see a future with any of them. He is not your average guy because he has a sort of innocence that I think is pretty rare in this day in age, at least where I come from. When I say he's clueless and inexperienced, I mean, for example, that he asked me with complete sincerity (and out of curiosity) if I had slept with anyone else before (even though he knew I had been in several serious and long term relationships and I was not of an age where you might not be sure if the people involved have reached that stage yet). So I agree with the description that I'm settling for absence of dates and consideration and respect for my time, but I think the meaningful conversation and romantic connect are there when we are in fact together, he's just no good at maintaining it when we're not (not saying that's not an issue, just clarifying that I do think they are there - if they weren't, I would completely agree and wonder why on earth I'm settling for this joe-blow!)

 

Lobouspo - nothing really went "wrong" in my past relationships, I consider myself fairly lucky in terms of general dating history and picking pretty good guys. In the first one I realized I just didn't have strong feelings for him, even though I did care about him. He was my first everything and I was honestly excited enough that someone had even asked me out on a date and it took a while (too long, probably) for me to realize my feelings didn't go deeper than that. The second (and most serious and longest) relationship, nothing identifiable was "wrong" and sometimes I wonder if I was being too picky. Everything was good, but when I met him I was interested in starting to date more (since I had only ever dated my first boyfriend) but ended up falling into this second relationship, and down the road I just couldn't get rid of the feeling that I wasn't ready to settle down and hadn't really explored yet or gotten enough experience, so I ended things. The third treated me very well and was even more "romantic" than the first two and we had lots of fun together, but there were just too many other qualities about him that made him not "marriage material" in my eyes. For example - our intellectual compatibility was nonexistent (and I don't mean to be judgmental or arrogant, I just mean we couldn't have the kinds of intelligent, analytical conversations that I would like to be able to have with my partner), smoked/drank a bit too much for my taste, was generally much more into partying than I was.

 

dispatch3d - Ahh, I don't know how to turn my private messages on! I don't think I'm able to, if I'm not an "established member" yet? In any event, you are correct - ultimately talking to him is the only way to actually address the issue, and I plan to do that next time I see him. But everyone's advice has been helpful so far in figuring out what's reasonable and sorting out the position I'm taking, which is essentially that once I make all of this clear, if he's not interested in making more of an effort then I'm just going to walk away.

[dispatch3d]

This guy sounds a lot like me to tell you the truth. I guess my question for you is what kind of stuff have other guys done that really show a true effort in getting to know you, that they are interested, and that if you did have a full blown relationship that it would work out?

 

I guess I feel like for me I'm constantly stuck with an excited girl but it just goes nowhere, which is frustrating. I have seen in other threads guys giving good morning texts in the beginning, which quite frankly kind of blew me away they would do this. I also have had a particular girl do a lot of very thoughtful things around me and it really wow'd me, but I'm so far from that its hard to even start, although I do want to.

 

I doubt very very very much the guy is me or anything, I'm just looking for general advise as a guy in a similar position, and maybe it will give you help in delivering the message to him.

 

Also did you talk to him and how did it go?

[Millie the Cat]

Don't be available to hang out at his convenience when he texts. Tell him you have plans.

Get involved with other activities and other people in your life so your life isn't revolving around this guy.

Don't center your life and emotional state around this guy. He senses that.

 

He needs to feel that sense of chase and the possibility, like you said, of losing you. Maybe in the process of being involved with other activities and people in your life, you may meet someone else.

 

Keep the guy on his toes. If he doesn't make more of an effort by being less available to him, he just isn't that interested and there's no hope.

[JDJ]

I don't know, reading this it sounds like this is not a relationship that should be saved. As many have pointed out, four years is a long time to be treading water. The OP seems to have had a bad effect on the boyfriend as well, since her initial withdrawal from him has caused him to remain distant and uncommunicative. It seems to be a relationship of convenience for both of them, not having found anything better. Marriage and commitment are not going to suddenly emerge out of this situation. If either of them eventually want that, it's time to cut this habit off.

[lovelies25]

dispatch3d: In terms of what other guys have done to show a true effort in getting to know me, etc., I would say it's a number of things. I'm not saying everything on this list is necessary, but in the interest of trying to be helpful, these are just the kinds of things I've experienced in the past that have allowed me to feel extremely comfortable and secure in feeling like the other person was actually invested, interested in a serious relationship, etc.

- Being in touch on a regular basis. For me and my past boyfriends, this has meant keeping in touch every day (or almost every day) except for special circumstances - and this isn't because I asked for it or anything, it just happened naturally and because the guys in question would actively reach out to me on a regular basis. This could be by texting, seeing each other in person (in college, when doing so was easy), chatting online, videochatting when we were long distance/traveling or, if one of us was traveling, just sending each other a daily email, for example, to stay in touch. This is one of the biggest things for me personally. Even if a guy is unromantic and not super affectionate, if he wants to make sure he talks to me every day and wants to know how I'm doing and what's going on in my life (and shares the same with me), it goes a long way towards making me confident that he cares and is invested in me, even if he's not great at showing it in other ways. But, I realize that different relationships have different communication styles so it may just be that that's just what I've gotten used to. But in my experience dating more casually, I've found the same to be true - typically the guys who were more into me and/or more interested in pursuing a real relationship would stay in touch with me more regularly.

 

To respond to one of your comments, I would note that this did NOT involve a good morning text every day or anything like that, and I would almost recommend against that because if and when you stop doing it, she will probably wonder why and read into it. Only one of my boyfriends did that and honestly I was surprised by it and thought it was really noteworthy (and not necessary, though I certainly didn't mind). To me it's more about sharing things (anecdotes, stories, pictures, articles, whatever it is) and generally wanting to know how the other person is doing.

 

- Sort of related to generally keeping in touch is also involving the other person in your plans, though this obviously depends on how serious you are and how frequently you see each other. But if there is at least some tendency to say "oh I'm doing XYZ, do you want to come with me" or making an effort to coordinate plans (ex., "by the way I have to get dinner with my friend on Friday, can we hang out Saturday?") it shows me that I'm not an after thought and that the person actually wants to spend time with me.

 

- Another thing past boyfriends have done is introduce me to friends and (depending on how serious it was) family. When a guy wants to bring me to something where his friends will be, it gives me a lot of confidence because it suggests that he's not afraid of looking like a "couple" and wants his friends to meet you. Making an effort to get to know my friends also helps, though that's been less consistent with past boyfriends.

 

- Another thing is celebrating holidays/occasions together. This doesn't mean it has to be some huge elaborate celebration or that you need to spend every single holiday ever together, but if, for example, a guy says he wants to take me out for dinner for my birthday or to celebrate some accomplishment at work, it would be meaningful to me, whereas if the guy's not invested I wouldn't expect him to want to be involved on meaningful occasions. Obviously thoughtful presents or thoughtful plans are always nice, but I don't think they are absolutely necessary to feeling loved and like the person cares about you.

 

Does that help? To clarify, are you asking for advice on how to show these things or be thoughtful in return? And what do you mean by being stuck with an excited girl but not having it go anywhere? What kind of thoughtful things has this girl done? If you are trying to reciprocate, you could try to follow her lead and try to do similar things for her. Other things you could do might be planning something you think she would enjoy or keeping an eye out for events going on that might be fun for you two to go to, bringing her flowers/little gifts (doesn't need to be major gifts, but something that shows you were thinking of her), cooking her dinner (if you cook) or finding some other skill you have to do something for her, or even just trying to do little things when you're together that would make her happy. Could be taking her to a new coffee shop or restaurant she has been wanting to try, or just taking her out for ice cream (for example, or whatever treat she likes), or even things like holding her hand or putting your arm around her when you're out together, picking a flower for her from the side of the road, telling her she's beautiful or how much fun you have with her or whatever other compliment comes to mind, as long as it's genuine. It all depends on what your interactions are currently like, what she enjoys, what you enjoy doing, etc., so it's hard to generalize, but those are some suggestions. As I said in my earlier posts, my guy never plans ANYTHING so the one time he did nothing other than ask me a couple of days in advance if I was free for dinner because he had made reservations somewhere, to me that was a huge deal. So it all depends!

 

Edit: Oh, and I haven't talked to him yet. I haven't seen him in person because of traveling and mismatched schedules but I will report back when I do!

Edited March 13, 2018 by lovelies25

[stillafool]

Ha well yes, he is in fact great in bed (because he learned quickly despite the lack of experience). I have better chemistry with him than with anyone else I've met in that aspect.

 

But there is also the fact that he is in my eyes a "better man" than any other guy I've met, in that he is compassionate and caring and selfless when it comes to the outside world, and is frequently helping those in need in a way that I wish I had the strength to do. I admire and respect him in a way that I haven't with anyone else, which is why it's not easy to simply move on and find someone else.

 

Also, to respond to Gaeta's comment, perhaps you're right and this will never change, and I know to an extent we can never change a man. I think it's impossible to change a man and who he is fundamentally, but am hopeful that "how to be in a relationship" is something a person can learn, since we have all had to learn it at some point. The problem is, similar to what I just said above, there are plenty of men (including the ones I've dated) that do all of these romantic and other things, but are not as kind, or compassionate, or what have you - and those characteristics I would never expect to be able to change, whereas this seems less fundamental. Also, I think the reason for him not dating is not because he's emotionally immature (though he is in some ways I'm sure), but in part because of upbringing and religious reasons.

 

Well it sounds like a trade off to what you had with the other guys. There's always give and take and as some will say you can't find everything you want in one person. I doubt if he will change. Maybe for a little while after a talk but he will fall back into this pattern. What did he say when you talked to him about i?