Concerns about lack of physical intimacy early on

[Juha]

She seems lukewarm towards you. Her never initiating any contact speaks volumes about her interest level. Experienced or not if she really had a high interest level in you after 4 dates she would initiate some with you.

 

I would not put much more effort into this one as it seems her level of participation with you is lacking.

 

If she liked you after 4 dates she would at least touch you and I am not talking sexually either.. IF a woman is that uncomfortable touching someone they like then they have issues that I do not want to deal with...

[DMVeep]

She seems lukewarm towards you. Her never initiating any contact speaks volumes about her interest level. Experienced or not if she really had a high interest level in you after 4 dates she would initiate some with you.

 

I would not put much more effort into this one as it seems her level of participation with you is lacking.

 

If she liked you after 4 dates she would at least touch you and I am not talking sexually either.. IF a woman is that uncomfortable touching someone they like then they have issues that I do not want to deal with...

 

Damn! I think you and my gut feeling were right. She just texted me canceling our date tonight stating a work conflict she forgot about. She said sorry but did not offer to reschedule. I guess my gut was right. Should I even bother with her any more?

 

I did forget to mention I had to cancel one of our dates due to illness but it was legitimate and I called her to inform her about the situation. We then had the date 2 days later.

[BluesPower]

She didn't want to kiss or make out after 4 dates. She doesn't initiate contact and when you initiate contact she doesn't contribute much to the conversation. You think she seems apprehensive re: physical contact. You aren't overthinking this. Your Spidey senses are tingling for a reason. This chick either isn't into you or she isn't into sex. Either of which are dealbreakers. Unless you aren't into sex, either, then carry on.

 

Personally, I'd be out if there wasn't good sex by the 3rd date. I have zero interest in putting effort, energy, and emotion into someone I am not sexually compatible with.

 

Yes, this is where I am at...That stuff better be mink lined if I wait for past 2 or 3 dates.

 

My experience is that if a girl is into you, you cannot keep her off of you, not that you would want to, but I am just saying.

 

If something does not happen by the 5th or 6th date, I would have a talk.

 

It goes like this, "I am crazy about you, but I am getting the feeling that you are not there. I am ready to move this to the next level, and if you are not then let's call it a day."

 

Chumps tend to wait forever for sex, don't be that guy

[todreaminblue]

We are supposed to go on a 5th date tomorrow. I’m just going to try and focus on having fun and not worry about the outcome.

 

That being said, would it be best to clarify my goals or inquire about hers? Or is it too early? I don’t want to seem impatient about things but I have other options if she’s just going to jerk me around, a situation I’m trying to avoid.

 

 

while your worrying about whether you should say something you are not enjoying her company so let it go for now...........she doesnt sound like she is jerking you around at all...sounds like really natural flowing dates to me........can you explain your options you have?..

 

 

if you are concerned about her lack of initiation how about at the end of the 5th date simply say hey how about we do something you really want to do or go somewhere you want to go next time you pick the spot..........deb

[DMVeep]

while your worrying about whether you should say something you are not enjoying her company so let it go for now...........she doesnt sound like she is jerking you around at all...sounds like really natural flowing dates to me........can you explain your options you have?..

 

 

if you are concerned about her lack of initiation how about at the end of the 5th date simply say hey how about we do something you really want to do or go somewhere you want to go next time you pick the spot..........deb

 

How is she not jerking me around? She cancelled the date we were supposed to have last night, stating she had a work function she forgot abou. I replied: No worries, it happens. Let’s hang out out Friday instead?

 

That was yesterday afternoon(Tuesday), and I still haven’t heard back from her. What should I do now?(It’s Wednesday morning) I’m just feeling disappointed and a little angry.

[elaine567]

How is she not jerking me around? She cancelled the date we were supposed to have last night, stating she had a work function she forgot abou. I replied: No worries, it happens. Let’s hang out out Friday instead?

 

That was yesterday afternoon(Tuesday), and I still haven’t heard back from her. What should I do now?(It’s Wednesday morning) I’m just feeling disappointed and a little angry.

 

You started this little "game" by deciding not to text her and effectively going MIA for a day.

 

I have been texting her daily but today, I sent nothing and received nothing.

[stillafool]

How is she not jerking me around? She cancelled the date we were supposed to have last night, stating she had a work function she forgot abou. I replied: No worries, it happens. Let’s hang out out Friday instead?

 

That was yesterday afternoon(Tuesday), and I still haven’t heard back from her. What should I do now?(It’s Wednesday morning) I’m just feeling disappointed and a little angry.

 

Forget about her and start dating others if you don't hear from her by the end of the day. She is obviously not that interested in dating you.

[Juha]

Damn! I think you and my gut feeling were right. She just texted me canceling our date tonight stating a work conflict she forgot about. She said sorry but did not offer to reschedule. I guess my gut was right. Should I even bother with her any more?

 

I did forget to mention I had to cancel one of our dates due to illness but it was legitimate and I called her to inform her about the situation. We then had the date 2 days later.

 

Sorry to hear man. I would just have said "no worries, we can do it another time. Let me know when is good for you?"

 

Not worth getting all worked up about and showing her you are aggravated. Just act like no big deal, as you have no idea if she really has a meeting or not and it really does not matter as she is cancelling your date.

 

Also you put the ball in her court about getting together by asking when is good for her. So if she really does like going out with you she will get in touch with you and if she does not then you will not hear from her and you also save yourself time from ever contacting her again...

 

Good luck man

[Juha]

How is she not jerking me around? She cancelled the date we were supposed to have last night, stating she had a work function she forgot abou. I replied: No worries, it happens. Let’s hang out out Friday instead?

 

That was yesterday afternoon(Tuesday), and I still haven’t heard back from her. What should I do now?(It’s Wednesday morning) I’m just feeling disappointed and a little angry.

 

I would do nothing. Your reply was good about not showing her you were not happy and you put the ball in her court about getting together again.

 

You really should do nothing, as you offered Friday to her. If she likes you and wants to see you she will give you a response. By not hearing back from her so far I would say she is not too interested.

 

One thing I would change is when you want to make a date, you should ask for a date. When you say hang out to a woman they take it as you not being serious about dating them. They take it as you being casual and just wanting to see them for sex...

 

Good luck finding someone better than this woman...

[todreaminblue]

How is she not jerking me around? She cancelled the date we were supposed to have last night, stating she had a work function she forgot abou. I replied: No worries, it happens. Let’s hang out out Friday instead?

 

That was yesterday afternoon(Tuesday), and I still haven’t heard back from her. What should I do now?(It’s Wednesday morning) I’m just feeling disappointed and a little angry.

 

 

why not call her thursday night and ask if she is free for friday....its christmas time and work functions and business scale is amped...she may just be busy....she may not have received your text .....why not call her.....she has cancelled once and just like you cancelled it may be legitimate too..........why are you angry...disappointment i understand.....are you letting replies here fuel your anger....i dont understand your anger....i would get a handle on that......its a red flag personally........deb

[BluesPower]

why not call her thursday night and ask if she is free for friday....its christmas time and work functions and business scale is amped...she may just be busy....she may not have received your text .....why not call her.....she has cancelled once and just like you cancelled it may be legitimate too..........why are you angry...disappointment i understand.....are you letting replies here fuel your anger....i dont understand your anger....i would get a handle on that......its a red flag personally........deb

 

No, do not call... That would make you weak and chasing her.

 

You have put the effort in, it is her turn.

 

And here is the deal, she is most likely not into you or you would have gotten laid already, like MJ and I said in our respective posts already.

 

Don't call her and move on. And if, and that is a very big IF, she calls you back, cool. If she asks why you did not call, tell her, "I did not think you were interested, so I moved on."

 

This is the reason that you don't date a girl that does not have sex after a reasonable amount of time, because you don't want to be a chump...

[central]

EVERY woman I dated initiated sex at the latest by the 5th date. I am willing to take things slowly, but my time limit is roughly 2 months. After that, I move on. And if the sex isn't good once we start having sex, or there are limits imposed on frequency, I move on. I require someone who - when they've decided to have sex with me - wants me about as much and as often as I want them

[todreaminblue]

No, do not call... That would make you weak and chasing her.

 

You have put the effort in, it is her turn.

 

And here is the deal, she is most likely not into you or you would have gotten laid already, like MJ and I said in our respective posts already.

 

Don't call her and move on. And if, and that is a very big IF, she calls you back, cool. If she asks why you did not call, tell her, "I did not think you were interested, so I moved on."

 

This is the reason that you don't date a girl that does not have sex after a reasonable amount of time, because you don't want to be a chump...

 

i do believe he needs to chill a bit..mainly getting angry wont help him in any dating effort.......but a phone call would not hurt...it is not weak to call a woman you are interested in...and to chase a little in the beginning....its dominant..........he sent the text tuesday and its wednesday ...probably not even a full day later..from what i gather from posts here this is the first unanswered text....a day past texting....in saying that if its sex he is after ....maybe the other options he has will be ready to put out and more suitable.......its not a chump to wait for sex from a woman who will be ready for it...some men might even wait till marriage........its the mark of a man....with self control a bit of mastery in their battle of penile dominance.... and most importantly respect and a forgotten trait of honorable towards the woman they are truly interested in knowing....what i class as a real man

 

he should call her to set up future dates.... texting to confirm a date is for boys.... deb

Edited December 13, 2017 by todreaminblue

[DMVeep]

i do believe he needs to chill a bit..mainly getting angry wont help him in any dating effort.......but a phone call would not hurt...it is not weak to call a woman you are interested in...and to chase a little in the beginning....its dominant..........he sent the text tuesday and its wednesday ...probably not even a full day later..from what i gather from posts here this is the first unanswered text....a day past texting....in saying that if its sex he is after ....maybe the other options he has will be ready to put out and more suitable.......its not a chump to wait for sex from a woman who will be ready for it...some men might even wait till marriage........its the mark of a man....with self control a bit of mastery in their battle of penile dominance.... and most importantly respect and a forgotten trait of honorable towards the woman they are truly interested in knowing....what i class as a real man

 

he should call her to set up future dates.... texting to confirm a date is for boys.... deb

 

I’m not really angry, it’s just frustrating. Ultimately, she isn’t communicating which is a very bad sign. When I had to cancel on her, I was legit sick and called to her ensure she wouldn’t think I was flaking. I have sent her at least one text a day which she would reply to, but never further the communication. I planned all the dates. I can’t help but get frustrated by putting my best foot forward, showing someone a great time, and continuously communicating with them only to get radio silenced/ghosted. I made a sincere and honest effort to get to know this person, I did nothing wrong/weird.

 

I kind of want to call her just as a social experiment. I get that it’s awkard to be direct but it’s really the best thing. Leaving someone hanging is brutal.

[DMVeep]

You started this little "game" by deciding not to text her and effectively going MIA for a day.

 

I ended up texting her that day in the evening, she replied asudual with nothing to further the conversation.

[BluesPower]

i do believe he needs to chill a bit..mainly getting angry wont help him in any dating effort.......but a phone call would not hurt...it is not weak to call a woman you are interested in...and to chase a little in the beginning....its dominant..........he sent the text tuesday and its wednesday ...probably not even a full day later..from what i gather from posts here this is the first unanswered text....a day past texting....in saying that if its sex he is after ....maybe the other options he has will be ready to put out and more suitable.......its not a chump to wait for sex from a woman who will be ready for it...some men might even wait till marriage........its the mark of a man....with self control a bit of mastery in their battle of penile dominance.... and most importantly respect and a forgotten trait of honorable towards the woman they are truly interested in knowing....what i class as a real man

 

he should call her to set up future dates.... texting to confirm a date is for boys.... deb

 

There may be a middle ground between your and my position, and I get that.

 

But look at it from this perspective, OP put the time in, was patient and what has it turned so far. Nothing, a complete waste of time. It may change, but for now it looks like she is dating him because she does not have anything else to do. Which is very much stringing him along.

 

Further, every woman that I have been with was ripping my cloths of be the 2nd or third date, or the first one.

 

When a woman is into you, she wants to have sex. When she is not into you, she does not want to have sex.

 

And Deb, it seems to me that most women recognize instantly if they have a real man or not, it really does not have anything to do with how long they wait for sex...

 

He needs to ghost her, and I be she does not call back.

 

Waiting around for a little taste is very beta behavior, it just is...

[carhill]

Waiting around for a little taste is very beta behavior, it just is...

 

That's signature-worthy. Clear and concise. Thanks! Hope the OP takes this on-board. As enshrined in that wonderful SNL episode Tom Brady was in, be attractive and don't be unattractive. Sitting around patiently waiting for something to happen is, frankly, unattractive. Women rarely find men they don't respect to be attractive and that respect, and attraction, can turn on a whim. Don't sit around and suffer the minutiae. That's beta. BTDT long ago. Foolish.

[DMVeep]

That's signature-worthy. Clear and concise. Thanks! Hope the OP takes this on-board. As enshrined in that wonderful SNL episode Tom Brady was in, be attractive and don't be unattractive. Sitting around patiently waiting for something to happen is, frankly, unattractive. Women rarely find men they don't respect to be attractive and that respect, and attraction, can turn on a whim. Don't sit around and suffer the minutiae. That's beta. BTDT long ago. Foolish.

 

What is the best thing to do then in the future? I made a horrible mistake and cancelled a date with another woman after our 3rd date. That 3rd date seemed like it launched things to another level, which is why I was in such shock and awe about the outcome of the 4th date. I was legit excited about seeing her again.

 

I thought **** was locked in, boy was I wrong.

[DMVeep]

Waiting around for a little taste is very beta behavior, it just is...

 

I see people frequently referencing alpha and beta stuff, is there a guide to this? Maybe I need to learn some different tactics?!

 

Unfortunately, I thought we had a connection but my sense deceived me. My gut feeling is she has ADHD or anxiety based on her behavior, so things were probably not going anywhere anyway.

[carhill]

In this vein, beta is supplicating and subordinating your own wants and desires to those of the prospective female. What you want from an interaction is equally as valid and important as what they might want. If no minds meet, move on. As men we're programed to serve and protect so we have to balance that programing against what we want out of mating. It's 'nice' to sacrifice ourselves at the altar of another's wants or whims. Noble. Chivalrous. Up to you what you want to do.

[BluesPower]

I see people frequently referencing alpha and beta stuff, is there a guide to this? Maybe I need to learn some different tactics?!

 

Unfortunately, I thought we had a connection but my sense deceived me. My gut feeling is she has ADHD or anxiety based on her behavior, so things were probably not going anywhere anyway.

 

That is another discussion... that frankly can rage on forever.

 

But it boils down to being strong or weak, IMHO. Knowing your worth, confidence, strength of character.

 

For example, waiting some arbitrary time for sex. You can figure if a girl does not go for it by the 3rd or 4th date, which should take a couple of weeks at most, move on. And, don't turn down other dates.

 

Here is an example, current GF, said that she had a 90 day rule. I literally fell down on the floor laughing. Then I picked myself up and said "OK, call me in 90 days."

 

We made love the very next day.

 

The thing is that a woman wants to be with you or she does not. You need to learn the difference. For example, if you go in for a kiss after the first date, and she blocks it, no need for a second date.

 

I am not talking about some porn star make out kiss, I am talking about a soft soulful kiss that means something.

 

You do know if you are a good kisser or not, right. If you don't know it you are or not, you are not a good kisser. Work on it...

[newyorker11356]

That is another discussion... that frankly can rage on forever.

 

But it boils down to being strong or weak, IMHO. Knowing your worth, confidence, strength of character.

 

For example, waiting some arbitrary time for sex. You can figure if a girl does not go for it by the 3rd or 4th date, which should take a couple of weeks at most, move on. And, don't turn down other dates.

 

Here is an example, current GF, said that she had a 90 day rule. I literally fell down on the floor laughing. Then I picked myself up and said "OK, call me in 90 days."

 

We made love the very next day.

 

The thing is that a woman wants to be with you or she does not. You need to learn the difference. For example, if you go in for a kiss after the first date, and she blocks it, no need for a second date.

 

I am not talking about some porn star make out kiss, I am talking about a soft soulful kiss that means something.

 

You do know if you are a good kisser or not, right. If you don't know it you are or not, you are not a good kisser. Work on it...

 

Lol, I think your girlfriend was jokingly saying that about the "90 day rule." I think if she were serious, she wouldn't have said it like that.

 

And while I don't necessarily disagree with you, this isn't the case for all situations.

 

I know a guy that's in a relationship with a girl that blocked his first kiss attempt on the first date. He was livid saying she wasn't into him and all this, but I calmed him down and said that some girls just prefer going slower than others. Just because she didn't kiss you on the 1st date doesn't mean she's not into you. Lo and behold, they ended up kissing on like a couple of dates later, and are now in a relationship.

 

Also, with scheduling, you can't always plan 3-4 dates in a 1-2 week span. With me, it's usually a date a week early on. As for sex, some women do indeed prefer waiting on that front as well (in my experience as well). It doesn't mean they aren't into the guy. You have to look at the situation more deeply than just that. Sure, in some cases, it's because they aren't that into you, but not all.

[Juha]

why not call her thursday night and ask if she is free for friday....its christmas time and work functions and business scale is amped...she may just be busy....she may not have received your text .....why not call her.....she has cancelled once and just like you cancelled it may be legitimate too..........why are you angry...disappointment i understand.....are you letting replies here fuel your anger....i dont understand your anger....i would get a handle on that......its a red flag personally........deb

 

Do not contact this girl. You left the ball in her court, it is now up to her to hit it back about getting together. You do not want to put this much effort towards someone after 4 dates. It should be much, much easier to get dates with someone that knows you than this.

 

Move on, do not contact her. If after 4 dates she has not shown any affection like kissing, like touching or holding hands she really is not into you much at all.

 

Meaning do not bother anymore with her, if she is interested she'll be in touch. Spend your time and effort on someone who reciprocates and is worth it...

[newyorker11356]

Do not contact this girl. You left the ball in her court, it is now up to her to hit it back about getting together. You do not want to put this much effort towards someone after 4 dates. It should be much, much easier to get dates with someone that knows you than this.

 

Move on, do not contact her. If after 4 dates she has not shown any affection like kissing, like touching or holding hands she really is not into you much at all.

 

Meaning do not bother anymore with her, if she is interested she'll be in touch. Spend your time and effort on someone who reciprocates and is worth it...

 

Now the paragraph in bold is something I do agree with. If she isn't even touching or holding hands with you after 4 dates, then touching may not be her love language, or she's not into you. Either way, both would be dealbreakers for me.

[Juha]

That is another discussion... that frankly can rage on forever.

 

But it boils down to being strong or weak, IMHO. Knowing your worth, confidence, strength of character.

 

For example, waiting some arbitrary time for sex. You can figure if a girl does not go for it by the 3rd or 4th date, which should take a couple of weeks at most, move on. And, don't turn down other dates.

 

Here is an example, current GF, said that she had a 90 day rule. I literally fell down on the floor laughing. Then I picked myself up and said "OK, call me in 90 days."

 

We made love the very next day.

 

The thing is that a woman wants to be with you or she does not. You need to learn the difference. For example, if you go in for a kiss after the first date, and she blocks it, no need for a second date.

 

I am not talking about some porn star make out kiss, I am talking about a soft soulful kiss that means something.

 

You do know if you are a good kisser or not, right. If you don't know it you are or not, you are not a good kisser. Work on it...

 

Yes, agree with above. If a woman has ridiculous rules like above, call her on it but jokingly and be ready to move on if what she wants or expects does not line up with what you want.