The Wildfire of Sexual Harassment

[thefooloftheyear]

Pretty much any socialization? That's just ridiculous. If a coworker and I are discussing what we did/plan to do on the weekend, it's not harassment in any shape or form. If you could have the conversation with your aunt, then you can have the conversation in the office. *unless you have a very weird aunt

 

A good dose of commonsense (not using innuendos, not making sexual comments or advances, not bothering someone who does not willingly return your conversation/replies in two word answers) should pretty much cover it.

 

 

Fair enough...

 

But everything seems to get blown out of proportion and people generally use these types of situations/events to conflate things and make trouble...

 

I'd be willing to bet anything that unfounded sexual harassment claims will explode as a result of this....

 

And why do you think someone would fabricate something that didn't happen/exist??

 

For money...Companies and maybe even some individuals, would sooner settle with an employee than deal with all the bs and negative PR..

 

TFY

[Woggle]

There is a feminist called Emily something that actually tweeted that she has no issue seeing innocent men taken down because of will eventually take down the patriarchy as well. I am sure many feminists feel the same way but she is willing to v armpit it.

[lana-banana]

I am baffled at how this is "murky" or "confusing". I would venture to guess everyone can tell the difference between annoying, harmless or possibly inappropriate behavior (such as asking out a coworker) and actual harassment (making suggestive comments, bosses asking out subordinates).

 

Nobody is getting fired because they were awkward. The allegations that have come out against various men include assault, indecent exposure, rape, stalking, and coerced voyuerism. Do people really have questions about whether it's appropriate to whip out their genitals in front of coworkers?

[carhill]

For money...Companies and maybe even some individuals, would sooner settle with an employee than deal with all the bs and negative PR..

Yep, that was the gist of the attorney's strategy many many years ago. Don't create a cash register environment for the bad apples. The pros know the employer will settle rather than go to the mat. Those bad apples make it tough for women, or men, with legitimate grievances.

[basil67]

There is a feminist called Emily something that actually tweeted that she has no issue seeing innocent men taken down because of will eventually take down the patriarchy as well. I am sure many feminists feel the same way but she is willing to v armpit it.

 

Please show women the respect of not lumping many feminists in the same basket with the occasional nutter. Most of us are perfectly reasonable people who want to see fairness towards all....and expect fairness towards all.

[basil67]

Enigma, I could be wrong, but I reckon that you as an individual would be pretty good at knowing if sexual advances are unwanted. From what I know of you online, I really don't see you making that mistake.

 

I think that a guy who can't figure out if sexual attention is unwanted is best to err on the side of not giving sexual attention.

 

I too will be interested to see if men start coming forward with accusations.

[Woggle]

Please show women the respect of not lumping many feminists in the same basket with the occasional nutter. Most of us are perfectly reasonable people who want to see fairness towards all....and expect fairness towards all.

 

I do believe that but then feminists need to start speaking up against these kinds of misandrists. Don't go around saying men are trash and don't get offended when somebody says not all men. Her name is Emily Linden by the way. It's not me that is dragging feminism through mud but women like her.

[basil67]

I do believe that but then feminists need to start speaking up against these kinds of misandrists. Don't go around saying men are trash and don't get offended when somebody says not all men. Her name is Emily Linden by the way. It's not me that is dragging feminism through mud but women like her.

 

Never heard of her.

 

After Googling, I found information about her tweet. She had to shut down her twitter account because so earned the ire of just about all of social media. Makes me think that regular women ARE calling out other women for bad behaviour. Did you see anything which would refute this?

 

I wouldn't hesitate to negatively retweet a message such as this.

[Woggle]

Never heard of her.

 

After Googling, I found information about her tweet. She had to shut down her twitter account because so earned the ire of just about all of social media. Makes me think that regular women ARE calling out other women for bad behaviour. Did you see anything which would refute this?

 

I wouldn't hesitate to negatively retweet a message such as this.

 

I don't believe that most women agree with her but I do believe that many who actively call themselves feminists do. Go on Jezebel right now and say that you don't believe all men are bad and see what kind of reaction you get. I want predators to get what they deserve. Many of them Weinstein belong in prison but I know that a lot of the types who post on boards like Jezebel look at all men and see Harvey Weinstein and I will never support somebody who hates me like that.

[elaine567]

She explained her reasoning and she has a point.

How many innocent women's careers have suffered and been ruined at the hands of men who harassed them, abused them and raped them? but we are now supposed to be SOOO concerned about the men...again...

 

Lindin explained the reasoning for her admitted "unpopular opinion" in a multi-part thread, first claiming that "false allegations VERY rarely happen, so even bringing it up borders on a derailment tactic. It’s a microscopic risk in comparison to the issue at hand (worldwide, systemic oppression of half the population)."

 

Despite immediate backlash, Lindin pressed on.

"The benefit of all of us getting to finally tell the truth + the impact on victims FAR outweigh the loss of any one man’s reputation,” she said, adding, "If some innocent men’s reputations have to take a hit in the process of undoing the patriarchy, that is a price I am absolutely willing to pay."

 

"How many of our reputations have suffered unfairly?" Lindin continued. "How many of our lives have ALREADY BEEN destroyed because of physical violence against us? Why was that acceptable, but now one man’s (potentially) unfair loss of a career opportunity is not?"

[basil67]

I don't believe that most women agree with her but I do believe that many who actively call themselves feminists do. Go on Jezebel right now and say that you don't believe all men are bad and see what kind of reaction you get. I want predators to get what they deserve. Many of them Weinstein belong in prison but I know that a lot of the types who post on boards like Jezebel look at all men and see Harvey Weinstein and I will never support somebody who hates me like that.

 

I don't know Jezebel, but I've got better things to do than troll a small subset of idiot women. Just as you probably have better things to do than troll a website containing a subset of idiot men. I know they are there, you know they are there. Trolling serves no purpose.

 

Misandrist websites no more represents the average woman than some of the misogynist websites represent the average man.

[Woggle]

The post above you agrees with this woman and I feel her attitude is more common than people think. In some ways I actually respect her for coming right out and saying it.

[elaine567]

Every day completely innocent people get jailed for crimes they did not commit, yet we accept that risk for the greater good.

 

Here we have men being accused by multiple women often over many many years of acting inappropriately, do we just ignore these women? Do we let these perpetrators get away with it just in case some guy somewhere will be falsely accused?

 

Matt Lauer was sacked today not only because of one woman coming forward but because the NBC were aware this was "not an isolated incident"...

I guess most of these allegations are the same.

[Woggle]

There are many organizations dedicated to getting innocent people out of prison including the innocence project which has gotten a lot of men falsely accused of rape out of jail with DNA testing. Innocent people being destroyed should not be something anybody is okay with. Matt Lauer and Harvey Weinstein are proven harassers and in the latter case also a rapist. There accusers had proof. What this women is saying is that it is not an issue if innocent men who have done nothing wrong to anybody end up being hurt. She wants to hurt the entire male gender pretty much.

[elaine567]

She wants to hurt the entire male gender pretty much.

She never said that.

[Woggle]

She never said that.

 

She said that she doesn't care if they are hurt which is pretty much the same thing.

[elaine567]

She said that she doesn't care if they are hurt which is pretty much the same thing.

 

She actually said

"If some innocent men’s reputations have to take a hit in the process of undoing the patriarchy, that is a price I am absolutely willing to pay."

 

The greater good usually triumphs over any squeamishmess over innocent people suffering, it is the way the world works.

Did any of these men worry about the innocent women they abused? Did the men who knew and covered it up worry abut them either?

This is an opportunity for women to make their voices heard and yet again we are being sidelined into talking about the poor men...

[OpenBook]

She actually said

"If some innocent men’s reputations have to take a hit in the process of undoing the patriarchy, that is a price I am absolutely willing to pay."

 

Yeah, the ironic part is, she isn't the one who actually pays the price.

 

It would be a horrible thing to see genuinely good guys being taken down by false accusations. The world doesn't have enough of them. It wouldn't help the feminist cause at all.

[Woggle]

Yeah, the ironic part is, she isn't the one who actually pays the price.

 

It would be a horrible thing to see genuinely good guys being taken down by false accusations. The world doesn't have enough of them. It wouldn't help the feminist cause at all.

 

This kind of mentality harms feminism more than any male sexist but the feminists don't see it that way. Every innocent man ruined will be another convert to the alt right and why shouldn't they if this is what feminists think of them.

[carhill]

I think it's healthy that good guys are taken down by the evil in the world. That way we see people for who they really are. Expendable. Just like we are. It's really good information. Healthy.

[thefooloftheyear]

She actually said

"If some innocent men’s reputations have to take a hit in the process of undoing the patriarchy, that is a price I am absolutely willing to pay."

 

The greater good usually triumphs over any squeamishmess over innocent people suffering, it is the way the world works.

Did any of these men worry about the innocent women they abused? Did the men who knew and covered it up worry abut them either?

This is an opportunity for women to make their voices heard and yet again we are being sidelined into talking about the poor men...

 

Why is she saying she'd pay the price?? What price would she pay??

 

Myself and just about any guy I know would send another guy to the ER for just about any type of unwanted sexual advance/behavior from some guy to any woman we know or care about...I mean,...not even a threat??

 

So why have not any of these guys gotten their asses kicked???

 

TFY

[carhill]

Well, civilized people don't solve their problems face down in the dirt, right?

 

Been there done that many times. Definitely not a white collar solution but boy does it feel good. Puts human life into perspective. Too many airbags, IMO. People need to feel real pain and death. Else we get fat rocket men like Kim.

[BikerAccnt]

 

 

 

I have mixed feelings about it. IMO, the vast majority of men either do not care about sexual harassment or they would actually enjoy it. I would likely wonder about the motives of any guys that did complain.

 

I think you are right here for the most part. It's what makes men and women different. Many men, not all, but many, enjoy attention from the opposite sex, unwanted or not. It reinforces our belief in how manly we are

[BikerAccnt]

All that said, the type of harassment being exposed in the news goes far beyond elevator harassment of peers. When someone is your boss, or is even a peer at work, you need to just be all kinds of careful. Things that may be ok or funny outside of work, don't fly inside of it. At. All.

[Southern Sun]

The problem with separating "unwanted" sexual harassment from "wanted" (??) sexual overtures is when the issue of power comes in.

 

If a woman (or man) is in a room with a powerful person (specifically, someone who has power over them), who expresses attraction or sexual interest in them, and he/she admires that powerful person, has been mentored by that powerful person, and is potentially intimidated by that powerful person, can we count on he/she to respond completely honestly?

 

This is the tough part. It's an unfair predicament. Let's say the powerful person asks to have sex, or even, "Do you want to see my genitals?" What does the other person say? They may believe in the back of their minds that their job is at stake on some level. Or they just might feel unable to be totally boundaried. So the answer sounds like, "Sure." "Okay, yeah." It sounds like consent. It seems like we have two consenting adults.

 

Where is the line there?