Shadows of her former love

[Cullenbohannon]

I will say you are wrong.

 

Based on your last post, what you are doing is close to torture.

YOU KNEW WHAT WAS IN THAT PHONE CALL. If anything, the knowledge of that information should have begun to build trust. This wasnt a NC phone call demanded by you. She said the words of her own free will.

 

The fact that you knew what was said, and still used the call against her, reducing her to tears, shows a side of you that is not flattering.

 

I have digital photos, some almost 20 years old. I would NEVER delete them. Photos are history and the requirement to erase history IS controlling.

 

The only thing remotely suspicious is the phone number. It should not be difficult to access phone records to determine usage. If this does not turn out to be a smoking gun, you have no reason to not begin trusting, outside of your own insecurities.

 

Outside of that, it appears you may be the problem and if you dont cut her some slack and go to IC/MC asap, she may turn and you may be sitting on the outside looking very stupid. What you are doing now is suicide.

 

No, she was not perfect. Accept what she told him and work from there. No one wants to be a plan B, but sometimes it takes a little work to become the only plan.

 

This holiday season change the narrative and change your life. Have a little faith and it may return to you tenfold.

[BluesPower]

I will say you are wrong.

 

Based on your last post, what you are doing is close to torture.

YOU KNEW WHAT WAS IN THAT PHONE CALL. If anything, the knowledge of that information should have begun to build trust. This wasnt a NC phone call demanded by you. She said the words of her own free will.

 

The fact that you knew what was said, and still used the call against her, reducing her to tears, shows a side of you that is not flattering.

 

I have digital photos, some almost 20 years old. I would NEVER delete them. Photos are history and the requirement to erase history IS controlling.

 

The only thing remotely suspicious is the phone number. It should not be difficult to access phone records to determine usage. If this does not turn out to be a smoking gun, you have no reason to not begin trusting, outside of your own insecurities.

 

Outside of that, it appears you may be the problem and if you dont cut her some slack and go to IC/MC asap, she may turn and you may be sitting on the outside looking very stupid. What you are doing now is suicide.

 

No, she was not perfect. Accept what she told him and work from there. No one wants to be a plan B, but sometimes it takes a little work to become the only plan.

 

This holiday season change the narrative and change your life. Have a little faith and it may return to you tenfold.

 

Could not disagree more...

 

She has repeatedly been dishonest with him. He has ever right to try and figure out what is going on in her head.

 

They never really dealt with these issues.

 

No way man...

[Cullenbohannon]

And was he not dishonest with her?

 

Let me ask, who on here thought the recording was going to be professing of love and desire? All of you did. Instead, she shut him down. What else would you want?

 

Has she been perfect? No. But the recording shows effort and that should have been enough to start trust in our opinion. How the recording was handled shows insecurity at best and dishonesty and infliction of pain at its worst. The phone number should be investigated, but if he comes up with nothing, then nothing is what he has.

 

Love grows and love dies. You can control who gets the serving of tomorrow and who gets served a plate of yesterday.

 

Better know what you are doing, OP.

 

Anyway, back to our Happy Holidays. Wishing good news for you and your wife OP.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Cullenbohannon

[BluesPower]

And was he not dishonest with her?

 

Let me ask, who on here thought the recording was going to be professing of love and desire? All of you did. Instead, she shut him down. What else would you want?

 

Has she been perfect? No. But the recording shows effort and that should have been enough to start trust in our opinion. How the recording was handled shows insecurity at best and dishonesty and infliction of pain at its worst.

 

Love grows and love dies. You can control who gets the serving of tomorrow and who gets served a plate of yesterday.

 

Better know what you are doing, OP

 

Have you lived through infidelity CB?

 

All is fair. He is just now learning what he should have done when she was talking with him 2 years ago. And he just learned that she was shady about sleeping with other men when they first started dating and his divorce was not final.

 

She may or may not have done anything wrong in the early relationship, but lying about it makes it wrong IMHO.

 

If you lie about it that means you know you should not have done it.

 

So yes he has every right to discuss this and judge her reactions to everything. If she had been straight from the very beginning about everything then none of this would have happened at all.

 

I really cannot see where you are coming from CB...

[LivingWaterPlease]

BMI03, seems to me your wife is a very immature person who may have learned in childhood to live in a dysfunctional world by clinging to fantasies to placate her emotional needs. That is what this other man is to her, her escape from reality. I believe what she says about you being her world, her love, whatever. But, sadly, she needs fantasies in order to cope with the routine of everyday life. On top of that, sorry to say, she is fearful of being honest, even to herself. So she is deceitful.

 

If you stay with her, she has a lot of work to do on herself but from what you've written she isn't motivated to do it, choosing rather to continue to do whatever it takes to stay connected with a fantasy person.

 

Having a relationship with this other man, however little or much she interacts with him, has nothing to do with who he is as a person and who you are as a person. It's all about who she is.

 

If this other man ever cuts her off completely (it seems she's told you it's totally over with him, but then it never is totally over) she'll most likely need to find another fantasy person because that's a habit begun in her childhood that she used to cope with dysfunction.

 

If you get tired of the situation and leave her someday, you will most likely become the fantasy person in her next relationship.

[BMI03]

I will say you are wrong.

 

Based on your last post, what you are doing is close to torture.

YOU KNEW WHAT WAS IN THAT PHONE CALL. If anything, the knowledge of that information should have begun to build trust. This wasnt a NC phone call demanded by you. She said the words of her own free will.

 

The fact that you knew what was said, and still used the call against her, reducing her to tears, shows a side of you that is not flattering.

 

I have digital photos, some almost 20 years old. I would NEVER delete them. Photos are history and the requirement to erase history IS controlling.

 

The only thing remotely suspicious is the phone number. It should not be difficult to access phone records to determine usage. If this does not turn out to be a smoking gun, you have no reason to not begin trusting, outside of your own insecurities.

 

Outside of that, it appears you may be the problem and if you dont cut her some slack and go to IC/MC asap, she may turn and you may be sitting on the outside looking very stupid. What you are doing now is suicide.

 

No, she was not perfect. Accept what she told him and work from there. No one wants to be a plan B, but sometimes it takes a little work to become the only plan.

 

This holiday season change the narrative and change your life. Have a little faith and it may return to you tenfold.

 

Just to be clear on the timeline, yes I heard the call, and yes she gets credit for that. However, my hearing this call content came after she told me she would tell me and then refused (I assume because she was concerned I would be hurt at how much emotion still existed between them at that stage which was evident). Also, prior to my hearing it were the instances of her agreeing to let the contact tapper off with no answers (which she failed), sending him a note to stop (which she failed), telling me when she texted (which she failed), and us answering the next text together (which she failed). So hearing the call after those other occurrences, yes, sure she gets some credit for trying to do the right thing, but I don't feel guilty for my confidence still being significantly shook up.

 

To your point on the photos, I know my post was long so just to reiterate, I know photos of them together exist. Lots of them. I don't care and am not bothered by that. My concern was that opposed to them sitting in those folders on facebook she holds private (but has shared with me to see before), it bothered me as to what was going on in her head when she saved new copies of two in particular on a new device within a week of getting engaged. Added to all the other bull**** about him, it was her emotional state and where he heart was that was bothering me. The physical images were just the symptom to kick my insecurities into gear. Insecurities she caused, and which neither of us took the right actions to address and solve but instead shelved and crossed our fingers we wouldn't have to deal with them until this trigger occurred.

[BluesPower]

Just to be clear on the timeline, yes I heard the call, and yes she gets credit for that. However, my hearing this call content came after she told me she would tell me and then refused (I assume because she was concerned I would be hurt at how much emotion still existed between them at that stage which was evident). Also, prior to my hearing it were the instances of her agreeing to let the contact tapper off with no answers (which she failed), sending him a note to stop (which she failed), telling me when she texted (which she failed), and us answering the next text together (which she failed). So hearing the call after those other occurrences, yes, sure she gets some credit for trying to do the right thing, but I don't feel guilty for my confidence still being significantly shook up.

 

To your point on the photos, I know my post was long so just to reiterate, I know photos of them together exist. Lots of them. I don't care and am not bothered by that. My concern was that opposed to them sitting in those folders on facebook she holds private (but has shared with me to see before), it bothered me as to what was going on in her head when she saved new copies of two in particular on a new device within a week of getting engaged. Added to all the other bull**** about him, it was her emotional state and where he heart was that was bothering me. The physical images were just the symptom to kick my insecurities into gear. Insecurities she caused, and which neither of us took the right actions to address and solve but instead shelved and crossed our fingers we wouldn't have to deal with them until this trigger occurred.

 

And, it is totally correct for you to feel that way...

 

And it is smart for you to continue to talk through all of this until YOU feel confident that she has been truthful.

 

OP, I think you are doing a better job at all of this, and maybe it will work out. But I have to say, that the way she responds about all of this is completely disturbing. She still loves this guy who beat her. That is a huge problem.

 

If this guy ever came back into the county, to your town, how long do you think it would be before they were sleeping together?

 

How do you feel about that?

[BMI03]

BMI03, seems to me your wife is a very immature person who may have learned in childhood to live in a dysfunctional world by clinging to fantasies to placate her emotional needs. That is what this other man is to her, her escape from reality. I believe what she says about you being her world, her love, whatever. But, sadly, she needs fantasies in order to cope with the routine of everyday life. On top of that, sorry to say, she is fearful of being honest, even to herself. So she is deceitful.

 

If you stay with her, she has a lot of work to do on herself but from what you've written she isn't motivated to do it, choosing rather to continue to do whatever it takes to stay connected with a fantasy person.

 

Having a relationship with this other man, however little or much she interacts with him, has nothing to do with who he is as a person and who you are as a person. It's all about who she is.

 

If this other man ever cuts her off completely (it seems she's told you it's totally over with him, but then it never is totally over) she'll most likely need to find another fantasy person because that's a habit begun in her childhood that she used to cope with dysfunction.

 

If you get tired of the situation and leave her someday, you will most likely become the fantasy person in her next relationship.

 

This message hit home strongly. It's something I believe you are spot on about, and which I need to be careful of.

 

The first 10 years of her life consisted of living through a bloody civil war, followed only by a day to day in areas occupied by violent and powerful gangs. Creating a fantasy around her doesn't sound off the mark. I am not sure how else a young child could cope in a household of women with armed men coming door to door to kill and steal, always being a risk. It's only been since we have met and talked about a lot of things in long overnight conversations that she has really come to even understand that her upbringing was traumatic. It was her normal for her since birth, so she is only now connecting some of those dots and recognizing how painful some of that was to her.

 

And perhaps that's what he was to her when she moved here. Her family, some of which also moved here prior didn't like this guy, and they actually went two years with almost no contact because of this disapproval. Perhaps he was her way to remove herself from the parts of her life associated with living in a war torn state.

 

Being honest to herself, I think is less a fear, and more a learned way to be. I think this was ingrained. Maybe fear like you said...I don't know. It's hard to place. Either way, you are right. She fear's honesty, and I think has a grudge against it. When she is in her hardest state, it's almost as though she shouldn't feel burdened by other people's feelings and needs for honesty, because that's not her and if you don't like it, too bad. It takes work each hard conversation to break that wall down. And I have, many times now, and through it she has become a much softer and open person with me than she herself could ever imagine being. But I see that hardness with others, and that lack of obligation to be honest with them. Only difference is that I know her and I can see it when she puts the wall up with me. There wasn't one of the cases I mentioned prior about her ex that didn't in some way create that sense in my gut, down deep at least, that something was amiss. And she knows I know. She can still resist it, but it hangs in the air. Like it did last night until she showed me she still had the recorded call (I didn't know if it still existed last night or if it was deleted, but when I asked her and she said it was gone, I knew from her answer it wasn't).

 

I think the go forward plan is to work on ourselves and together. I think I have trust issues, and my logical mind has a heavy need to know the details. Which unfortunately pins up harshly against someone reluctant to provide them at times. And I say at times, because we have hashed out a lot of hard topics too which I have not gotten into here. Hard topics on both our sides of the coin. But there is work to do.

 

Thanks again all for the guidance and points of view to reflect upon.

Edited December 1, 2017 by BMI03

[Cullenbohannon]

Best wishes to you and your family.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Cullenbohannon

[BMI03]

She was a single OW dating a divorced, but living with the wife, MM. Anything that happened during the time and shortly thereafter, is moot.

Even you have given the advice to keep your options open in such a case.

 

I base my opinion on 5 things. The recording, which completely exonerated her. Her status as a OW, because that is what she was. The photos, of which I buy her explanation, because we both have libraries, and the phone number in the iPad, which is an outstanding question. And lastly his deception regarding the recording.

 

Is all of this information enough to forgive and forget? No. Should it be enough to reflect inward, chart a different path and work together? In our opinion, yes.

 

I think that's fair commentary for the most part. I don't agree with the call exonerating her. I think it was evident of good intentions, but I think she wanted (wants) to hide how emotionally connected to him she still was at that time, 10 months into our own relationship.

 

Regarding the time at the start, yes, what she did at that time is again, not the issue. It was the fantasy creation by leading me to believe a false narrative as to what that was, by retroactively claiming to have been exclusive to me when she wasn't that is the point I am bothered by.

 

The photo and the dating and all that are not in and of themselves the issues that caused my lack of trust and discontent. They are the symptoms only, and created an unease as to my ability to trust her to be honest with me, and to believe that the feelings she expressed for me were real. That is/was/is what I had issue with. It's why my trust is shaky, and why I am unapologetic for needing to go through this at times it is shaken again. I don't for a second think I have enough to say she was again dishonest (the photo reason makes sense to me, and a do believe her about being unsure about the phone number), but I do feel I have been jerked around enough that she will need to help resolve these fears she helped build in me when and if these moments occur, until we can chart that new path.

 

Re charting a new path is exactly what's in order.

[BMI03]

Best wishes to you and your family.

 

Thank you. You too. I appreciated hearing your input.

 

Thanks again.

[BMI03]

And, it is totally correct for you to feel that way...

 

And it is smart for you to continue to talk through all of this until YOU feel confident that she has been truthful.

 

OP, I think you are doing a better job at all of this, and maybe it will work out. But I have to say, that the way she responds about all of this is completely disturbing. She still loves this guy who beat her. That is a huge problem.

 

If this guy ever came back into the county, to your town, how long do you think it would be before they were sleeping together?

 

How do you feel about that?

 

If I am being honest at what I believe the risk is at this time (taking for sake of argument that he would come here which is unlikely), I think she would be emotionally troubled. I think she would communicate with him, and I think she would hide that from me. But I also think she would tell him that she can't see him. That's what my gut tells me. Because she has had opportunity before and said no. But it's the keeping it from me altogether that is still an issue to me.

 

My two cents today.

[LivingWaterPlease]

This message hit home strongly. It's something I believe you are spot on about, and which I need to be careful of.

 

The first 10 years of her life consisted of living through a bloody civil war, followed only by a day to day in areas occupied by violent and powerful gangs. Creating a fantasy around her doesn't sound off the mark. I am not sure how else a young child could cope in a household of women with armed men coming door to door to kill and steal, always being a risk. It's only been since we have met and talked about a lot of things in long overnight conversations that she has really come to even understand that her upbringing was traumatic. It was her normal for her since birth, so she is only now connecting some of those dots and recognizing how painful some of that was to her.

 

And perhaps that's what he was to her when she moved here. Her family, some of which also moved here prior didn't like this guy, and they actually went two years with almost no contact because of this disapproval. Perhaps he was her way to remove herself from the parts of her life associated with living in a war torn state.

 

Being honest to herself, I think is less a fear, and more a learned way to be. I think this was ingrained. Maybe fear like you said...I don't know. It's hard to place. Either way, you are right. She fear's honesty, and I think has a grudge against it. When she is in her hardest state, it's almost as though she shouldn't feel burdened by other people's feelings and needs for honesty, because that's not her and if you don't like it, too bad. It takes work each hard conversation to break that wall down. And I have, many times now, and through it she has become a much softer and open person with me than she herself could ever imagine being. But I see that hardness with others, and that lack of obligation to be honest with them. Only difference is that I know her and I can see it when she puts the wall up with me. There wasn't one of the cases I mentioned prior about her ex that didn't in some way create that sense in my gut, down deep at least, that something was amiss. And she knows I know. She can still resist it, but it hangs in the air. Like it did last night until she showed me she still had the recorded call (I didn't know if it still existed last night or if it was deleted, but when I asked her and she said it was gone, I knew from her answer it wasn't).

 

I think the go forward plan is to work on ourselves and together. I think I have trust issues, and my logical mind has a heavy need to know the details. Which unfortunately pins up harshly against someone reluctant to provide them at times. And I say at times, because we have hashed out a lot of hard topics too which I have not gotten into here. Hard topics on both our sides of the coin. But there is work to do.

 

Thanks again all for the guidance and points of view to reflect upon.

 

To the bolded. That may explain how she was able to function with her ex in that early on the men she observed were violent so her viewpoint of males developed to include perspective that, "males are violent." Therefore she way have been able to relate to that element of behavior in her ex because of the men she observed as a young child.

 

Also, if she and her mother were accustomed to them coming to her home knowing they were violent it seems they both must have developed coping mechanisms to survive these visits. Possibly that included deception and, hate to even write this but people will do what they need to do to survive, flirtation of some sort? I could be way off the mark on that, though since I know nothing about this type of life. This is just conjecture on my part.

 

As far as my observation that being honest even to herself may be fear-based, I didn't mean it in the sense that she was fearful of what you may do but more in the sense that she most likely is fearful of having to change her ways if she admits (is honest) the truth. She's afraid she can no longer manipulate and obfuscate as a way to have things her way so in that sense she is fearful of being honest.

 

Glad you are going to work on things. Trying to recall if you intend on finding a counselor.

 

You seem to be an insightful person and she's fortunate to have you in her life. However, you mentioned you have trust issues. Who wouldn't under these circumstances? My concern for you is that she may not be able to face her issues until she's flat on her back (consequences for her behavior). You're a good communicator and so it seems, is she. But, you guys can talk until you're blue in the face, even with a counselor present, and it's possible it won't do any good until she realizes how high the stakes are by having to face some consequences.

[elaine567]

YOU, fresh out of a failed marriage, fell straight into the arms of the first woman you saw and unfortunately it was a woman from a mixed up toxic, abusive, passionate, love/hate relationship that ended up with her not knowing her own mind and she is no doubt still "addicted" to her abuser.

Google "trauma bonding"

 

It is NEVER a good idea to get involved with anyone who is still emotionally invested with their ex.

IMO, you have spent the last 2 years trying to rationalise the irrational.

[elaine567]

 

The first 10 years of her life consisted of living through a bloody civil war, followed only by a day to day in areas occupied by violent and powerful gangs. Creating a fantasy around her doesn't sound off the mark. I am not sure how else a young child could cope in a household of women with armed men coming door to door to kill and steal, always being a risk. It's only been since we have met and talked about a lot of things in long overnight conversations that she has really come to even understand that her upbringing was traumatic. It was her normal for her since birth, so she is only now connecting some of those dots and recognizing how painful some of that was to her.

 

 

I just read this.^^^^

This is significant and why she was probably attracted to such a man in the first place and why she finds it difficult to let go.

Adrenaline rush.

Addicted to chaos, danger and drama.

[Tamari]

BM103,

 

I have read your posts and tend to agree with Cullenbohannon. You are clearly very afraid that 'something' is going to come out of the woodwork and hurt you, and it seems that you are determined to find it. If you can't find it now, you will dig and dig until you do. In the meantime you remain suspicious and afraid and will keep obsessing and worrying and imagining. You say you are logical and analytical but fact is you are letting your emotions and your imagination drive you. And the emotions are fear insecurity.

 

I am not surprised she doesn't want to talk about it - again! And that she gets frustrated. Getting therapy, either together or alone, is what I would suggest is the best course of action.

 

Good luck to you both!

[Yosemite]

OP, I think that if you continue on this course you will destroy your marriage. I don’t understand your motivations. Pretending to not know what’s on that call to see her reaction as some kind of test doesn’t make sense to me. You know that the call was her shutting the ex down. You know that your wife told you about the call immediately after it happened. You know that the recording only exists because she came up with the idea on the spot so that you wouldn’t have any reason to doubt her…why you're still obsessing about it two years later is unclear to me.

 

I said I don’t care how much you think things on that call recording would hurt me. I would rather hear them and be upset then heal, then not. Because now they are made up of all the worst case things my brain will imagine, and so I am living with them anyway but in a fashion worse off than they likely are.*

 

All of this was a lie because you know what’s on the recording. You’re creating drama where none exists and if you keep lying about your feelings, you’re planting the seeds that will end your marriage.

 

You say that you believe that she’s lying about her feelings for her ex and that you don’t know what’s truly in her heart, how are you any different than what you accuse her of doing? You lied about your feelings about the recording and therefore she doesn’t know what’s truly in your heart. She thinks that you are imagining the worst case scenario because you don’t know what’s on the recording…because that’s what you told her. The truth is that you know what’s on the recording and are “testing” her. You need to ask yourself if that’s not hypocritical.

 

How did you meet your wife?

[Cullenbohannon]

Any update? We really hope you are working it out. This forum needs a good ending this holiday season.

[todreaminblue]

I just read this.^^^^

This is significant and why she was probably attracted to such a man in the first place and why she finds it difficult to let go.

Adrenaline rush.

Addicted to chaos, danger and drama.

 

i would actually say the opposite she is also conflict avoidant......averse to drama so she lies to smooth the waters.....to not create drama when drama happens she freezes and cant handle it....i have known of this.....personally and with another woman who would say she had cheated when she hadnt to stop violence...........

 

after being with violent men ......living with violence....i will say anything to make sure that violence isnt repeated...i protect others from violence...and i freaking hate it...but thats life....and i wont go into detail....sometimes my life can really suck........including saying nothing and waiting for the right time when i should say something to a violent man...ice addicts in particular.......picking my battles at least i have control over that......do i like violence addicted to drama...that would be no....every ounce of me fights to stay standing and not run

 

and i know a violent man and who isnt a violent man....maybe she doesnt trust you completely yet to not be violent.....she is lying when she says she does trust you...she needs help....to trust you and then only then can you trust her....

 

living with violence means you lose control its taken from you......i dont think there's anything worse.....so you can trust each other.....you need professional help..i hope you looked that direction......best wishes...deb

Edited December 13, 2017 by todreaminblue

[KityGlitr]

YOU, fresh out of a failed marriage, fell straight into the arms of the first woman you saw and unfortunately it was a woman from a mixed up toxic, abusive, passionate, love/hate relationship that ended up with her not knowing her own mind and she is no doubt still "addicted" to her abuser.

Google "trauma bonding"

 

It is NEVER a good idea to get involved with anyone who is still emotionally invested with their ex.

IMO, you have spent the last 2 years trying to rationalise the irrational.

 

 

Hope you don't mind me jumping in OP, I read the whole thread.

 

You're married to somebody you cannot trust. She is a liar.

 

It seems fairly simple to me. If you decide to try and salvage the marriage and build some trust you need to do two things.

 

1. Get into marriage counselling. Asap.

 

2. Tell her that as you are married it is disrespectful to your relationship for her to have any further contact with this ex. Make no apologies for this. You don't sound controlling to me, far from it, you have no issues with her having contact with other exes she is honest about. But this one she clearly has feelings for and completely prioritises her feelings/his feelings/sustaining the drama over your emotions.

 

She's married to you now, she's shown she can't be trusted with this guy, and if you find any further evidence she has had contact with him of any sort, you will divorce her. Respect yourself, man. She will respect you for finally standing up for yourself and protecting yourself and the marriage, even if she doesn't like it that her source of drama and attention has gone.

 

This draws a line under all of this, you will no longer have to worry and stress about this problem, and if future contact comes to light it'll be obvious to you that since you've had such a clear discussion and asserted your boundaries she prioritises him over you. No more wondering if you're plan b. It'll hurt but be a relief to have it there in black and white.

 

Why on earth haven't you already told her this years ago? That the price of admission for being your partner and wife is she cuts contact completely with this guy she isn't over and who causes so much stress and damage to your bond? Have you been afraid to assert yourself?

 

It's a bad sign that she hasn't already gone NC with him of her own volition and doesn't seem able or willing to protect her marriage from the damage her drama with this ex brings. But maybe you can salvage the marriage and eventually build trust again with this course of action.

[KityGlitr]

i would actually say the opposite she is also conflict avoidant......averse to drama so she lies to smooth the waters.....to not create drama when drama happens she freezes and cant handle it....i have known of this.....personally and with another woman who would say she had cheated when she hadnt to stop violence...........

 

after being with violent men ......living with violence....i will say anything to make sure that violence isnt repeated...i protect others from violence...and i freaking hate it...but thats life....and i wont go into detail....sometimes my life can really suck........including saying nothing and waiting for the right time when i should say something to a violent man...ice addicts in particular.......picking my battles at least i have control over that......do i like violence addicted to drama...that would be no....every ounce of me fights to stay standing and not run

 

and i know a violent man and who isnt a violent man....maybe she doesnt trust you completely yet to not be violent.....she is lying when she says she does trust you...she needs help....to trust you and then only then can you trust her....

 

living with violence means you lose control its taken from you......i dont think there's anything worse.....so you can trust each other.....you need professional help..i hope you looked that direction......best wishes...deb

 

I'd say she has a pretty solid understanding the OP isn't a violent man considering he has never hurt her even after uncovering her many lies. I imagine she feels safe when she can lie to him and he doesn't hit her. You may well be right but it seems off the mark. She doesn't need facilitating to trust OP more, in the hopes that'll make her honest. She needs to start being honest and experience some consequences if she continues to lie.

[todreaminblue]

I'd say she has a pretty solid understanding the OP isn't a violent man considering he has never hurt her even after uncovering her many lies. I imagine she feels safe when she can lie to him and he doesn't hit her. You may well be right but it seems off the mark. She doesn't need facilitating to trust OP more, in the hopes that'll make her honest. She needs to start being honest and experience some consequences if she continues to lie.

 

 

you are right.... she doesnt need facillitating.....she needs counselling.... professional counselling..she needs to want to do counselling.......as far as knowing that op is or is not a violent man...once you have been in a relationship that has had close to hospital visits with domestic violence......there are triggers that form...likelihood of ptsd is increased..........which also involves irrational fear..

 

she does need professional help....if she hasnt got it...and it would benefit them no end i feel personally to start couples counselling....i was petrified of my father......so much so i would lie about the dumbest things...afraid somehow it was going to turn into me copping it...which it often did.......he wasnt known as a violent man...he was however dominant and controlling.....and used to dole out the discipline to me....i would flinch which made him angrier that i flinched...showed weakness... the punishment was harder .....

 

for years after i left home every time a man raised his hand or moved too fast in my direction...i would flinch .....some....they had no intention of hitting me...most were horrified when i would flinch....one guy wasnt horrified he used to think it was funny to purposely make me flinch..it entertained him...put me in my place.....

 

fear is often not rational and can color perception...casting shadows everywhere...who is to know how she feels only a counsellor could really go there....deb .....

Edited December 13, 2017 by todreaminblue

[KityGlitr]

I agree, counselling is definitely needed. To work out why she can't stop lying and if there's a way forward to rebuild the trust. I have to say it doesn't bode well for the future of the relationship, it's only been three (?) or four years and there are so many problems, inability to let go of the past, and a lack of trust due to lies. It's gonna be hard for them to fix this alone, especially as OP doesn't seem confident enough to set any boundaries and implement consequences.

 

I'm sorry for what you went through at the hands of violent men

[todreaminblue]

I agree, counselling is definitely needed. To work out why she can't stop lying and if there's a way forward to rebuild the trust. I have to say it doesn't bode well for the future of the relationship, it's only been three (?) or four years and there are so many problems, inability to let go of the past, and a lack of trust due to lies. It's gonna be hard for them to fix this alone, especially as OP doesn't seem confident enough to set any boundaries and implement consequences.

 

I'm sorry for what you went through at the hands of violent men

 

i feel its going to be rough and raw for them both...but good counselling is where you deal with issues that have been left uncovered and it may be uphill for them but imagine if they make it .....the view and the strength the sense of purpose and accomplishment.....closer than ever with a trial by fire.....

 

personally i know how hard it is for a man to deal with my past ..i have triggers....im not easy..im pretty complex.......but i work hard when i am in a relationship ....i will do what needs too be done to keep it afloat...and that is what both op and his love need to do.....put the relationship above others..including exes...and do the effort....

 

dont feel sorry for me ...i have met the very best of men and am related too and been extremely close with some really inspiring men...they are gone now,.,.they cheer me on........ and i have known the worst..i do feel sorry for them ...and ill never date another worst not this black duck.....i just learned the difference between best and worst the hard way.......deb.........

Edited December 13, 2017 by todreaminblue

[viatori patuit]

I have a standing non negotiable rule for relationships. No contact with exes. Not calls, texts or social media. That goes for both of us. Break the rule and we are done. I make this clear when the relationship starts.

 

I find it removes this issue and makes clear that we are committed to each other. If you didn’t make this clear then I am not sure what you have to concern yourself with - she did not do anything wrong if it wasn’t laid out.

 

To me trust is an action. I act like I trust my wife. When we met my wife still had context with her exes. She maintain friendships with many of them and I wasn’t going to tell her she couldn’t. If we were going to date exclusively she had to stop that though. It was her choice to do that.

 

Have you ever had the talk about deal breakers? That goes a long way to clearing the air. If we couldn’t agree on boundaries for our relationship my wife and I would have a poor chance of success as a couple.