alphamale Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by whichwayisup PS I'm not explaining who Don Cherry is. If you don't know, GOOGLE it! he's the dude who invented virginity Link to post Share on other sites
SoftDrink Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 i will take my husband's last name. i love my own last name and people know me because of it, but when i am married, i will take his. i find hyphenated last names irritating. while i may keep my "maiden" name also, i will not sign both names unless necessary, and i will refer to myself as "Mrs. Blank" not "Mrs. Blankety-Blank". it's not an ownership kind of thing unless you make it that way, and if you do make it that way for yourself, or you feel like you are in an ownership kind of relationship, you shouldn't get married anyway. just my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Hey softy .. Just think if you and Alpha got married .. Your name would be " Soft Male " Link to post Share on other sites
Author loony Posted August 20, 2005 Author Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by Art_Critic Still 4 years after the divorce she still has my name..( it kills me ) .. If you had been the one who had changed his name you could have taken your old name back after the divorce. Originally posted by tanbark813 It's not a matter of my name being more special than hers. It's a matter of me being more special than other men. You don't answer my question. You don't explain why your name is so special that she has to take it and not revers. A woman taking a man's name is a sign of devotion. As is the man buying the woman an engagement ring. As is the actual wedding ceremony. But if those traditions are so bad I guess we could just do away with them all. No more weddings, just people showing up at the courthouse to sign their marriage license talking about how independent and empowered they are. As I said before, traditions are not bad but you once in a while you should question them and ask yourself why you do them. What if your wife came from another culture where it was not common to take her husband's name? It seems like you use the engagement ring as a mean to impose your will on her. Do you buy the engagement ring out of love or to shut her up when you argue with her? Where's your respect for your wife's wishes? Originally posted by Alphamale Because that is the way it is and the majority of people accept it and are happy with it. Period. Kudos to your compelling argumentation. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by Art_Critic Hey softy .. Just think if you and Alpha got married .. Your name would be " Soft Male " Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by loony Kudos to your compelling argumentation. There is much to be said for tradition LOONY...things are the way they are for many reasons. Link to post Share on other sites
tanbark813 Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by whichwayisup So, what do you all think of hyphening lastnames?? I think it's pretentious and inconvenient, especially if it were to be done for several generations. You'd end up with kids having names like Jackson-Smith-Jones-Johnson-Nguyen-Sanchez-Boguslavsky-Chang. Originally posted by loony You don't answer my question. You don't explain why your name is so special that she has to take it and not revers. I did answer your question. You chose to not understand it. Originally posted by loony It seems like you use the engagement ring as a mean to impose your will on her. Do you buy the engagement ring out of love or to shut her up when you argue with her? Where's your respect for your wife's wishes? It has nothing to do with imposing my will. She has every right to not take my name. As I have every right to not marry her. What about respect for my wishes? Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Outcast Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 The more I think about it.........it seems like it is just one of those things that people do and we do not really know why? It may have already been stated on another post, but do we know where this tradition came from ? From when women became 'chattels' of men, i.e. possessions like the chairs and the cows. 'Because we've always done it that way' is the saddest excuse ever for doing anything. You need to examine the origins of the tradition and see if the reasons the tradition exists are still valid. If you can agree that the fine old tradition of men being able to beat their wives and children at will is better off changed, then why can't you agree that the fine old tradition of changing names is? Link to post Share on other sites
Author loony Posted August 20, 2005 Author Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by SoftDrink it's not an ownership kind of thing unless you make it that way, and if you do make it that way for yourself, or you feel like you are in an ownership kind of relationship, you shouldn't get married anyway. But then I think you don't understand fully why some guys insist that their future wife takes their name. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by loony But then I think you don't understand fully why some guys insist that their future wife takes their name. Loony.. You seem to be pointing towards the upper .25% of guys that want/demand that the woman take his name because he wants to begin his control.. But the amount of men that want to exercise that kinda control on a woman is so small in numbers that they don't warrant to be talked about in terms of tradition Link to post Share on other sites
Outcast Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 It's just that they're all posting here Link to post Share on other sites
Author loony Posted August 20, 2005 Author Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by tanbark813 It has nothing to do with imposing my will. She has every right to not take my name. As I have every right to not marry her. What about respect for my wishes? And her wish? Because tradition expects her to change her name she's supposed to accept this? The only reason that explains why you want it like this seems to be the male instinct to mark his territory. If you want to, then fine, you will find a woman who will gladly carry your name, but remember it has nothing to do with respect or love. Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me wrong. You are telling me that it's wrong for a woman not to take her husband's name, that this is the death of chivalry, so obviously you consider a woman who doesn't like this tradition to be a man-eating feminist. Or am I wrong? Link to post Share on other sites
Author loony Posted August 20, 2005 Author Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by Art_Critic Loony.. You seem to be pointing towards the upper .25% of guys that want/demand that the woman take his name because he wants to begin his control.. But the amount of men that want to exercise that kinda control on a woman is so small in numbers that they don't warrant to be talked about in terms of tradition In answer to this: Originally posted by Outcast It's just that they're all posting here Exactly. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by loony If you want to, then fine, you will find a woman who will gladly carry your name It's not hard to find this kind of woman .. Just look around They are everywhere.. Almost all women would gladly carry the name of the man they love.. I can't give you percentages but if I had to hazzard a guess I would say 99.5% Link to post Share on other sites
Author loony Posted August 20, 2005 Author Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by Art_Critic It's not hard to find this kind of woman .. Just look around They are everywhere.. Almost all women would gladly carry the name of the man they love.. I can't give you percentages but if I had to hazzard a guess I would say 99.5% Those who grew up with this tradition and believe in it probably will. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by Art_Critic They are everywhere.. Almost all women would gladly carry the name of the man they love.. I agree.... Link to post Share on other sites
SoftDrink Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by loony But then I think you don't understand fully why some guys insist that their future wife takes their name. then you didn't fully understand what i said. Link to post Share on other sites
Blackfrost Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 So as not to be misunderstood as someone who thinks he owns and controls his wife: let me point out what marrying me entailed for my wife. She only has to work at a job if she wants to work - that is entirely her own choice. She has a beautiful house that is essentially hers to run as she sees fit, and if this occasionally means asking me to vacuum it, I don't mind chipping in and helping out. She can shop for whatever she wants whenever she wants - that she chooses to ask me my opinion before purchasing something - is entirely her own choice. That she wants to be at home and raise our daughter the way her mother was at home to raise her (as a child) is absolutely her choice. Essentially I bestowed upon her a winning lotto ticket, in that she is free to pursue life at her own pace - this gives me enormous satisfaction and identity of accomplishment in my life, that I can make hers and our daughters as good as they want it. If this is by any means someone who treats their spouse as a control freak, purchased concubine, or as one bitter jaded seattle hippy girl told me "oh.....you have one of those kept wives" Then my grip on reality must be entirely screwed up. My wife took my last name as an act of honor and love - in fact I don't think she ever questioned it beyond that. Bah....I don't even know why I bother to justify this Link to post Share on other sites
Author loony Posted August 20, 2005 Author Share Posted August 20, 2005 Blackfrost, if you like the traditional roles and your wife likes them, too, then it's ok. I didn't meant to say you're some control freak. Originally posted by SoftDrink then you didn't fully understand what i said. You do it because everybody does it. I don't think people have the right to doubt a woman's commitment to her man or her love for him just because she doesn't believe in taking his name. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by loony I don't think people have the right to doubt a woman's commitment to her man or her love for him just because she doesn't believe in taking his name. You are right Loony...The two are not the same But they have the right to understand WHY ? and the right to feel the way they feel as well as the right to not marry the woman that doesn't want to take his name I think that there can be reasons that would be considered a red flag..ie : she might be jaded Link to post Share on other sites
Author loony Posted August 20, 2005 Author Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by Art_Critic You are right Loony...The two are not the same But they have the right to understand WHY ? and the right to feel the way they feel as well as the right to not marry the woman that doesn't want to take his name I think that there can be reasons that would be considered a red flag..ie : she might be jaded I pointed out that it's not a tradition in some cultures to take the man's name. I've also seen women keep their name because they're from a different culture and they obviously wanted to preserve some of their cultural roots. I've known a couple where the man, a British, even converted to Islam in order to be able to marry his Pakistani wife who is still carrying her own name. I find the way some people here insist that it's a must to take the man's name and a proof of her love for him to be simply narrow-minded. You assume when a woman doesn't want to follow a tradition that there must be something wrong with her -- excuse me but who has the problems here? Link to post Share on other sites
RecordProducer Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by loony Sorry, beth5201, if I was a bit harsh in my previous post. I seriously wonder about the purpose of a tradition that makes someone say that a woman should feel honored to carry his name. What male attitude towwards women is hidden behind this tradition? Actually it's also the woman's attitude towards the man that leads to this tradition. The man is considered more responsible financially and socially. By taking his name, the couple accepts that HE is now responsible for the wife and kids. I am sure men would gladly trade the responsibility for a name if a woman wanted to take care of him and the children. But neither men nor women would like that combination, I believe. In any case, Loony, you're hitting your head off the wall. Men disagree with you and it's not a good ground to stand on when trying to have a loving lifetime relationship with someone. Ya know, they are not in the opposite team. They are just the opposite sex! Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by loony I pointed out that it's not a tradition in some cultures to take the man's name. I've also seen women keep their name because they're from a different culture and they obviously wanted to preserve some of their cultural roots. I've known a couple where the man, a British, even converted to Islam in order to be able to marry his Pakistani wife who is still carrying her own name. I find the way some people here insist that it's a must to take the man's name and a proof of her love for him to be simply narrow-minded. You assume when a woman doesn't want to follow a tradition that there must be something wrong with her -- excuse me but who has the problems here? Again .. good points.. But re-read my post I said "CAN" be reasons that doesn't imply that I think there "ARE" reasons like she can be jaded Link to post Share on other sites
Author loony Posted August 20, 2005 Author Share Posted August 20, 2005 Originally posted by RecordProducer Actually it's also the woman's attitude towards the man that leads to this tradition. The man is considered more responsible financially and socially. By taking his name, the couple accepts that HE is now responsible for the wife and kids. I am sure men would gladly trade the responsibility for a name if a woman wanted to take care of him and the children. But neither men nor women would like that combination, I believe. In most marriages nowadays you will seldom find only the man working, often the second income that the wife provides is also needed to ensure some financial security. In any case, Loony, you're hitting your head off the wall. Men disagree with you and it's not a good ground to stand on when trying to have a loving lifetime relationship with someone. Ya know, they are not in the opposite team. They are just the opposite sex! Who says that I would want any of the men here? Who says I want a traditional role? And who says the guy I have picked thinks like this? Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 You are starting to just argue with people Loony instead of debate opinions.. I can agree that we disagree on somethings.. Can you do the same? Link to post Share on other sites
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