Getting Rejected Sucks

[CptInsano]

Nice.

 

I'm not saying women can't approach, it's challenging the idea if you're a woman you can "afford to be shy". Most shy women can't get easy sex if they run from all the offers just like most shy men can't get easy sex if they never ask out any women. It's a similar dilemma.

 

Yes, if you are shy you have the problem on either side, that is true. But I still see a difference between "running away from offers" (women) and not having any chances whatsoever (men).

 

I may have mentioned it before, but I studied physics. Some of my fellow students were true introverts, even though they were very much into sports and generally very decent athletes. Even with their intelligence and their looks they weren't going anywhere, I mean absolutely nowhere. I am very hard-pressed to find a female equivalent to that. Even a good female friend of mine with a social anxiety disorder had more going on than those guys. (Part of this is due to that particular age group, it gets easier for guys as we get older.)

 

Women can approach and absolutely do, but asking out or propositioning a man is unusual where im at

 

But do you have to? Are men really that passive that they don't try even if you start the conversation, smile at them, touch their arms while you talk?

[CryForNoOne]

I'd genuinely rather be a man. I know I'd be incredibly successful at it.

 

I think it's completely pointless comparing the differences between being a man and a woman without considering relative attractiveness. I'm sure you genuinely rather be a man if you were hot. But what if you are average or below average looking? Average looking guys who are confident get laid all the time but they can't have whomever they want whenever they want. There is a very small percentage of extremely good looking and confident guys who pull that off. But as others have stated, a good looking guy who lacks confidence will struggle to meet any women. Whereas a good looking women doesn't have to do a thing to get inundated with messages. On the flip side it's probably worse to be an unattractive woman than an unattractive guy. A guy can always compensate with supreme confidence. That won't help an ugly woman one bit...

[Cookiesandough]

Yes, if you are shy you have the problem on either side, that is true. But I still see a difference between "running away from offers" (women) and not having any chances whatsoever (men).

There is a difference in that one provides a confidence boost, but both ultimately lead to the same consequence. No relationship/sex.

 

I will use a personal expample since you did. I had social anxiety through most of my adolescence. My types didn't cold approach me reall. Ive always been into shy, somewhat nerdy guys. Whenever I got a chance, I was extremely avoidant(closed off, go the other direction. If caught, answer curtly and say sorry have to run). So it took a very long time to find a bf and I didn't have sex until very late.

 

Now, one might say I simply needed to overcome the obstacle of being awkward and avoidant. Like a man is told to focus on his career and become wealthy, or work on his social skills to become suave. It took me awhile, still far from extremely successful, but marginally more success now.

 

(My type approach a little more, even though they are shy, specifically within group settings where we are supposed to be social. I attribute this to being more open/friendly and less standoffish.Still, I have to show a lot of interest. I have to focus only on him, flirt a lot, engage all night, then finally when I say I am leaving he'll ask me for my number. That doesn't take into account the effort needed for dating and getting to sex. I can't imagine a girl with full-blown social anxiety doing that.

 

 

I won't say all men can get sex or a date if they want to...but most guys could if they dropped their standards to a woman that had next to no appeal to them. But very few want to do that..

Edited October 29, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[CptInsano]

There is a difference in that one provides a confidence boost, but both ultimately lead to the same consequence. No relationship/sex.

 

I will use a personal expample since you did. I had social anxiety through most of my adolescence. My types didn't cold approach me reall. Ive always been into shy, somewhat nerdy guys. Whenever I got a chance, I was extremely avoidant(closed off, go the other direction. If caught, answer curtly and say sorry have to run). I couldn't help it. I froze up. So it took a very long time to find a bf and I didn't have sex until very late.

 

Now, one might say I simply needed to overcome the obstacle of being awkward and avoidant. Just as easy as it is for a man to focus on his career and become wealthy, or work on his social skills to become suave. It took me years, still far from extremely successful, but marginally more success now.

 

(My type) Guys approach more, even though they are shy, specifically within group settings where we are supposed to be social. I attribute this to being more open/friendly and less standoffish.Still, I have to show a lot of interest. I have to focus only on him, flirt a lot, engage all night, then finally when I say I am leaving he'll ask me for my number. I can't imagine a girl with full-blown social anxiety doing that.

 

 

I won't say all men can get sex or a date if they want to...but most guys could if they dropped their standards to a woman that had next to no appeal to them. But very few want to do that. It's no different for women. They are getting more offers with no appeal, there's still no relationships/sex happening. Transient confidence boost maybe, but same consequence.

 

I would say that there is a difference, because even that transient confidence boost is not available to these men. There are no offers. They get by on maybe a fleeting smile and nothing more.

 

(I actually tried to set up some of these guys with women, but even these attempts were unsuccessful, even though some of the women found these guys hot. There is some irony in me trying to attempt that.)

 

Honestly, I don't know how it felt for them, but it must have been painful, otherwise they wouldn't have recoiled that much.

 

I was different. I stuttered until my mid-twenties. Approaching women while stuttering is an interesting endeavor. A very few don't mind, most showed signs of pity, but then tried to remove themselves from the situation, others just showed signs of disgust, like a person who had just stepped into a pile of horse manure. I had hardened myself through public speaking (or public stuttering, whatever you'd want to call it) to push through this. Hadn't I been that stoic and extroverted, I don't think I could have pulled it off. I don't think most men got the same level of negative responses as I did.

 

Could I have had sex earlier? Yes, but I would have had to include women significantly older than I. While I had a preference, it wasn't a very strong one. I was mostly clueless about what type of woman within my age group would be receptive, which in turn led me to not being able to take the chances I had.

 

But I hope you see the difference. It is one thing, to get positive feedback and being unable to respond to it, as frustrating as that may be, in contrast to being stuck in a negative feedback loop and trying to not let it get to you.

 

What I described as hardening was more of putting a distance between most people and I, which for an extroverted person is actually painful, which I kinda overcompensated with spending time among friends. But it literally took me years to undo that.

 

Sex was an afterthought at that time. Just not being rejected would have been nice.

[GuitarGuy7]

There is a difference in that one provides a confidence boost, but both ultimately lead to the same consequence. No relationship/sex.

 

I will use a personal expample since you did. I had social anxiety through most of my adolescence. My types didn't cold approach me reall. Ive always been into shy, somewhat nerdy guys. Whenever I got a chance, I was extremely avoidant(closed off, go the other direction. If caught, answer curtly and say sorry have to run). So it took a very long time to find a bf and I didn't have sex until very late.

 

 

I have an aspergers diagnosis so I always struggled interacting socially. Making friends was always a challenge, dating was definitely a challenge. I think a lot of people with autism/aspergers struggle dating wise simply because aspergers is a social disorder so you're not going to naturally pick up on social cues that other people would. In fact, most people with aspergers don't start dating till their 20s.

 

There used to be a time where I couldn't interact with women my age at all. I was too scared. In fact, I didn't get comfortable enough talking to girls until I was about 20. I asked my first girl out at the age of 21, I went on my first ever date at 22.

 

And I will admit, it's tough but I definitely want to find someone. I really really do, lol.

[Cookiesandough]

I would say that there is a difference, because even that transient confidence boost is not available to these men. There are no offers. They get by on maybe a fleeting smile and nothing more.

CptInsano, maybe I lack empathy in this case, but I find it hard to feel bad for guys who don't get their egos boosted from being hit on by women they aren't interested in. I can't say my life has been enriched by male attention that leads nowhere. I recognize A LOT of women do like it. I don't, however. I feel uncomfortable to the point it's become an exercise for me to put myself out there.

(I actually tried to set up some of these guys with women, but even these attempts were unsuccessful, even though some of the women found these guys hot. There is some irony in me trying to attempt that.)

Yeah...That. That doesn't work. You can set us up with people and say how great we are, but we have to do the rest and that all goes to hell relatively soon after interacting. No one has the ability to make some to like us or desire us but ourselves. When we are awkward, that's just it for us. It's the Kiss Of Death, CptInsano. It's horribly sad to say, but sometimes it feels like natural selection at work...

 

 

 

 

Honestly, I don't know how it felt for them, but it must have been painful, otherwise they wouldn't have recoiled that much.

 

I know all too well how it felt for them. It feels like complete rejection. Like something is wrong with you. You ponder why something that seems to come so naturally for most of the other 7 billion on the planet is a challenge for you. Recoiling is a knee-jerk response. I admire people who are able to jump right back into the lion's den, but not everyone's built for that. Some can only take so much before they say "what's even the point?" I don't even deal with men romantically anymore. I deleted my Tinder. I truthfully don't know if I will go back or just stay in, take up knitting more seriously, and grow cobwebs.

I was different. I stuttered until my mid-twenties. Approaching women while stuttering is an interesting endeavor. A very few don't mind, most showed signs of pity, but then tried to remove themselves from the situation, others just showed signs of disgust, like a person who had just stepped into a pile of horse manure. I had hardened myself through public speaking (or public stuttering, whatever you'd want to call it) to push through this. Hadn't I been that stoic and extroverted, I don't think I could have pulled it off. I don't think most men got the same level of negative responses as I did.

That's incredibly admirable. It takes an immense amount of determination and mental fortitude. I freak at public speaking to this day. It seems like you overcame that obstacle to a great extent, or at least it didn't impede your ability to be desirable to several carefully selected partners throughout your life, iirc. I hope I get one more, but I'm not counting on it.

Could I have had sex earlier? Yes, but I would have had to include women significantly older than I. While I had a preference, it wasn't a very strong one. I was mostly clueless about what type of woman within my age group would be receptive, which in turn led me to not being able to take the chances

I know all about missed chances. My post history is like an excerpt from my compendium of missed chances. I've entertained dating older men, but I nixed that idea. I know I'd be no more successful.

But I hope you see the difference. It is one thing, to get positive feedback and being unable to respond to it, as frustrating as that may be, in contrast to being stuck in a negative feedback loop and trying to not let it get to you.

I'd describe my feedback as neutral at best. I still don't see the difference, CptInsano. I'm sorry. I don't mean to seem dense or disrespectful. It's probably there and very obvious. I am just missing it. I want to understand how one is more beneficial?

What I described as hardening was more of putting a distance between most people and I, which for an extroverted person is actually painful, which I kinda overcompensated with spending time among friends. But it literally took me years to undo that.

But I thought your hardening made you stronger? Or did I misunderstand you again. I think I'm extroverted too. It does hurt being crippled like that. I love being around people.

Sex was an afterthought at that time. Just not being rejected would have been nice.

 

While I do feel for men that go through this, I don't think men really get what it's like to be a woman who can't get men she's attracted to, especially when she doesn't consider her standards outrageous. CryForNoOne said it. Not much worse in the dating realm than being an undesired woman. Men have much more leeway for improvement. When you hear people talk about how women's main concern should be weeding the guys who just want to sleep with her from the ones who want to date her, imagine for a moment being a woman who defies that presupposition and can't get LAID. How would you feel? Not cool.

 

And when you try to explain this they tell you, "just go to a bar in a skimpy outfit and wait for guys to come up and offer to sleep with you" OH. Ohhhhhh. Okay. Really? And when you get over the incredulity of this suggestion and tell them you aren't exactly attracted to that idea or the men who accost you like that -- thirsty and foaming at the mouth all like -- and that perhaps, just maybe, you want some you are ATTRACTED TO (Not to say you have anything against gremlins carrying so many viruses most women would wear a hazmat suit to go near, you just don't think it's for you) they look at you as if you're squandering your privilege????:confused: These are the same men who tell you they don't date women over a certain weight, as well.

 

It's really hard. It's hard to read threads about dating and sex and being incapable of jumping in bed with a guy on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd date because of an awful combination of shyness, morals, and general undesirability, while others can and do. It's hard to know you really have nothing to offer a man. It's hard to know that this probably won't change for you. And perhaps worse of all, no one even believes it's possible for women. Your reality is denied. I'm not writing this for pity. OK, maybe I am. I don't know why I'm writing all this. A futile attempt to be understood, I suppose? IDK

Edited October 30, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[CptInsano]

@Cookie

 

This deserves a detailed answer, not something quickly typed on a smartphone. In short, yes I still believe there is a difference. I know what young women go through in this regard, I've seen it many times. Do I know what it feels like? No, of course not. It would be somewhat arrogant of me to assume that. But yes, I will respond in more detail later.

[snowbird7]

Well, all I can say is I'm glad I'm not a guy. I would hate having to risk getting rejected every time I wanted to get a date. I couldn't imagine that, I would be way too afraid to ask anyone out, and I'd probably just stay single!

 

But seriously, I remember back in high and middle school, me and my friends used to mercilessly reject most of the boys that we flirted with, and I would hate having to subject myself to that kind of humiliation the 9/10 times that guys probably get rejected, on average.

 

So I really feel sorry for guys sometimes, and in this sense, I think it's much easier being a girl. You get to choose, and you don't have to risk being rejected.

[Cookiesandough]

the thing is, and what women dont often realize, is that every time we're out and about, shopping, whatever, and a single guy checks us out or just walks by and doesn't approach we are rejected. it's a more subtle rejection but we're constantly being rejected nonetheless. if he doesn't have the nerve to approach us, hes not interested enough

Edited October 30, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[Greenhawk84]

I don't believe that women do not approach. I have watched women approach my 6'3 bearded monster of a friend who basically gets vagina thrown at him wherever he goes. He's hilarious and totally alpha if I have ever witnessed it. He's a guy who has stories I could never imagine happening to me. He's a vagina killer if there ever was one. He's one of my dating mentors. He's not perfect (nobody is) but I tend to be a "nice guy" and he shows me the other side of the coin.

 

 

I have been chased on numerous occasions, although most of the women who came my way I was not interested in. One woman in particular ended up being one of my favorite relationships. She chased me down on Facebook after we parted ways at a concert. Let me tell you, when a woman chases you down and you are into her as well, that's an INCREDIBLE feeling.

 

 

This is not to say I haven't had my share of total devastation and mountain of rejection. ****, I have a thread explaining my current dating woes. It's HARD sometimes. You MUST learn how to overcome the fear of rejection. You MUST lead your life the way you want it to be lead. Go ahead and learn from others. Learn how to be better. I am always learning. I may NEVER meet the woman of my dreams, but I promise I will definitely never meet her if I am not out there trying. Don't go for slump busters or settle. Just go for what you want. Trust me, I still fail myself right out of approaching by self sabotage; telling myself "she would never go for me." How the hell do I even know that?!

 

 

This year has be particularly awful for me in terms of dating.. but I cannot give up.

[rickwman]

Sorry you are experiencing this. Dating is a challenging experience, rejection and joy are a part of it. Maybe you can go on a date in a more relaxed environment. Find someone who shares the same likes as you. Example, if you like to take walks in the park, or play tennis, ask someone out with similar likes. Start the dating process out slow. Do simple things together so you can both discover each other in a natural environment. Honesty and understanding each other's expectations are very central to an honest and trusting relationship. I know that there is a wonderful girl out there for you. You just need to be at peace, treat your dates with honesty and respect, and free your mind and heart from any rejection, guilt or fear. Sometimes you have to dig thru the dirt to find diamonds. I know you will find your diamond!

[CptInsano]

the thing is, and what women dont often realize, is that every time we're out and about, shopping, whatever, and a single guy checks us out or just walks by and doesn't approach we are rejected. it's a more subtle rejection but we're constantly being rejected nonetheless. if he doesn't have the nerve to approach us, hes not interested enough

 

Just out of curiosity, what would make you think that? How can he reject you if you are anything but a fleeting image in his peripheral vision while he is out doing what he needs to do?

[carhill]

Perception of rejection turns on feelings, emotions, else it'd be a zero. The word wouldn't be used. If I feel rejected in my own mind and heart, I'm rejected. The rest of the world isn't really part of that. It's internal. The key IMO for the OP is managing that internal stuff, the feelings.

 

Hence, using the example provided, a dozen guys a lady might find attractive could walk by, not even noticing her or forming any cogent thoughts about her and she could and may indeed feel rejected because she does. Her emotions are her perception, no different from the OP's being his

[thefooloftheyear]

the thing is, and what women dont often realize, is that every time we're out and about, shopping, whatever, and a single guy checks us out or just walks by and doesn't approach we are rejected. it's a more subtle rejection but we're constantly being rejected nonetheless. if he doesn't have the nerve to approach us, hes not interested enough

 

 

C'mon you can't be serious...

 

TFY

[Greenhawk84]

Recently I went to the local sushi bar by myself to sit down and have dinner. I don't mind being alone sometimes, it also causes me to strike conversation with people out in the wild. I noticed the hostess at the door when I walked in was so attractive, right up my alley in terms of looks. I immediately began thinking about how I would get her attention and made it an objective to at least ask for her number.

 

 

As I sat in my booth, I watched her a little bit, and soon she was walking by my table getting a pitcher of water for the other tables. Right there I knew since she was the type of hostess to assist the servers as well, I may have a chance to say something while sitting.

 

 

This is where my nerves kicked in. How do I approach this? I'm an over thinker and that actually hurts me in dating. It has to be natural, casual, quick-witted, and as funny/charming as possible. She walked by, I made eye contact, smiled, and I gave a quick "Hows it going?" Which triggered her to stop and talk to me. Hardly charming, pretty basic greeting. I didn't treat her like a hostess, I treated her like she was there just like I was.

 

 

We talked a moment, she explained she hadn't been to work in a while from an injury. I asked about that, she said she had a bike accident because she can't see well in the dark (poor night vision). I joked around about contact lenses, etc. Then at the end I asked for her number and she gave it to me. Great!

 

 

I texted her a little joke: "We gotta get you some night vision goggles!"

 

 

No response.

 

 

I asked her some days later about her weekend.

 

 

No response.

 

 

I asked her some days later if she is single or not.

 

 

Nothing.

 

 

So.. she was either a deer in headlights when I asked for her number and gave it to me knowing full well she wasn't interested on that level or.. who knows. But for me that's a rejection, and look at all I did to get there! Guess what? Onto the next. Keep going, just like a drill. Practice, practice, practice.

[CptInsano]

Hence, using the example provided, a dozen guys a lady might find attractive could walk by, not even noticing her or forming any cogent thoughts about her and she could and may indeed feel rejected because she does. Her emotions are her perception, no different from the OP's being his

 

Yes, most certainly. It's an almost classic definition of an attribution error.

[normal person]

if he doesn't have the nerve to approach us, hes not interested enough

 

So it's hard for women to approach a guy for fear of rejection, but if a guy doesn't approach a woman, it's only because he's not interested enough? This thread was started by someone suggesting what was basically the antithesis of that. As I mentioned before I'm not a fan of "approaching" people randomly, but I can think of a few reasons why a guy in today's world would want to but not:

 

- General incompetence (not sure what to say, etc)

- Girl is with others, has headphones in, is looking at phone, or is otherwise occupied/busy

- Fear of general rejection as described by OP

- Fear of malicious, humiliating rejection as described by another female poster

- Fear of being called "creepy" (or worse) for even trying, which is worse than humiliation, it's on the borderline of accusation of malfeasance or harassment, in which society usually sides with the woman

- Socio-political climate demonizing masculinity and men for doing anything any woman may find the slightest bit offensive or "micro-aggressive"

- Legitimate desire not to make her feel uncomfortable or unsafe

 

Given all those things, plus more I'm sure I missed, I'm not surprised people have so much trouble with these things today. With the way things are today, I really think the best bet is for guys to pick their battles and either engage women circumstantially, or just pick from the pool of women who make their interest known. It's much more low-risk/high reward than having to navigate the minefield otherwise. In today's world a small part of me subconsciously feels like it's almost illegal to walk up to a woman I don't know and start talking to her. I joke about this with the girl I'm dating now, she'll literally be on top of me, and we'll joke that she needs to give me "positive consent" before I can remove each article of her clothing.

 

 

That's why I think OLD is great. It's non-invasive, non-threatening, and you know pretty simply if the person is interested or not.

Edited October 30, 2017 by normal person

[GuitarGuy7]

the thing is, and what women dont often realize, is that every time we're out and about, shopping, whatever, and a single guy checks us out or just walks by and doesn't approach we are rejected. it's a more subtle rejection but we're constantly being rejected nonetheless. if he doesn't have the nerve to approach us, hes not interested enough

 

That's not always true to be honest, I think for many guys they like a girl but they are too scared to make a move. And believe me when I say that many guys are scared to approach a girl they like. Why? Because they're scared of rejection, they're scared of coming off as a creep or cat-caller. Why? Because of the media shaming men for approaching.

 

I remember this one girl I had a HUGE crush on back in early 2015. Imagine writing down your ideal person on a piece of paper, and they show up in your life within a month. That's exactly what happened, I was absolutely crazy about this girl from the moment I laid eyes on her. The thing is though is that this was back when I didn't have any "game" I coudn't even talk to women at all. So I let her walk away, and to this day, I still ask myself what would have happened if I would have just asked her out? So I was definitely interested in this girl, but I didn't ask her out. So your reasoning is wrong to be honest.

[JustGettingBy]

the thing is, and what women dont often realize, is that every time we're out and about, shopping, whatever, and a single guy checks us out or just walks by and doesn't approach we are rejected. it's a more subtle rejection but we're constantly being rejected nonetheless. if he doesn't have the nerve to approach us, hes not interested enough

 

How can you tell that all the guys checking you out are single, and none are just attached guys who, while remaining loyal in the end, just want a few seconds of eye candy?

[CptInsano]

Alright, back to a regular keyboard, so here we go...

 

CptInsano, maybe I lack empathy in this case, but I find it hard to feel bad for guys who don't get their egos boosted from being hit on by women they aren't interested in. I can't say my life has been enriched by male attention that leads nowhere. I recognize A LOT of women do like it. I don't, however. I feel uncomfortable to the point it's become an exercise for me to put myself out there.

 

Yes, but how would you feel about the complete absence of it, if nobody was responding to you or respond to you reaching out? That wouldn't make you feel somewhat lonely?

 

I can see how getting hit on a lot would be a real pest, but I will speak to that a little more below.

 

Yeah...That. That doesn't work. You can set us up with people and say how great we are, but we have to do the rest and that all goes to hell relatively soon after interacting. No one has the ability to make some to like us or desire us but ourselves. When we are awkward, that's just it for us. It's the Kiss Of Death, CptInsano. It's horribly sad to say, but sometimes it feels like natural selection at work...

 

The painful thing to watch was the guys were actually trying to. The woman I used to try hook them up with was very much into athletes, and she was all for it. But those guys just froze like a mouse in front of a cat instead of just allowing it to happen.

 

I know all too well how it felt for them. It feels like complete rejection. Like something is wrong with you. You ponder why something that seems to come so naturally for most of the other 7 billion on the planet is a challenge for you. Recoiling is a knee-jerk response. I admire people who are able to jump right back into the lion's den, but not everyone's built for that. Some can only take so much before they say "what's even the point?" I don't even deal with men romantically anymore. I deleted my Tinder. I truthfully don't know if I will go back or just stay in, take up knitting more seriously, and grow cobwebs.

 

Yes, the recoiled because they were afraid. I think it had to do with fearing to lose control, giving into something that is unreasonable. One of those guys is still pining for a woman that is completely unavailable to him. But that must be the safe thing to do, meaning that somebody who is unavailable is also a safe choice, because it will never happen.

 

But I'm ultimately digressing. I'm writing about men who do have the chance, but are unwilling to take it. I wanted to write more about men who just don't have the chance even though they try hard, even if in the worst possible ways.

 

That's incredibly admirable. It takes an immense amount of determination and mental fortitude. I freak at public speaking to this day. It seems like you overcame that obstacle to a great extent, or at least it didn't impede your ability to be desirable to several carefully selected partners throughout your life, iirc. I hope I get one more, but I'm not counting on it.

 

I'm not stuttering anymore, so this is a thing of the past. The public speaking was an act of defiance more than anything else. (You are embarrassed about how I speak? Guess what, you'll get to listen to it at great length.) But I don't want to make it seem easier than it was. I had to work hard to get my relationships. Friends came very easy in comparison.

 

I know all about missed chances. My post history is like an excerpt from my compendium of missed chances. I've entertained dating older men, but I nixed that idea. I know I'd be no more successful.

 

I don't think that dating older men will help you, either. If I can be frank, I don't think the issue with you is about finding the right man at all.

 

I'd describe my feedback as neutral at best. I still don't see the difference, CptInsano. I'm sorry. I don't mean to seem dense or disrespectful. It's probably there and very obvious. I am just missing it. I want to understand how one is more beneficial?

 

Think of it as a wall between you and your goal. The man has to take the active role, it's just the way it is. As a guy you really get nowhere through passivity. A woman is aware that this wall exists, a man is forced to run into it over and over if he ever wants to have a chance of success.

 

But I thought your hardening made you stronger? Or did I misunderstand you again. I think I'm extroverted too. It does hurt being crippled like that. I love being around people.

 

It's a double-edged sword. While the distance, or rather aloofness, allows you to not notice all the minor disappointments, I have also missed many acts of pure kindness. People in general, and women in particular who were interested in me. I was literally standing in a club holding woman's purse while she was in the restroom, wondering why in the world she asked me to hold it.

 

While I do feel for men that go through this, I don't think men really get what it's like to be a woman who can't get men she's attracted to, especially when she doesn't consider her standards outrageous. CryForNoOne said it. Not much worse in the dating realm than being an undesired woman. Men have much more leeway for improvement. When you hear people talk about how women's main concern should be weeding the guys who just want to sleep with her from the ones who want to date her, imagine for a moment being a woman who defies that presupposition and can't get LAID. How would you feel? Not cool.

 

I know quite a number of women, but very few them cannot get laid. In fact, the burn victim I wrote about earlier was the only one, but she is now married. (I think many people believe that they can't get laid, yet that's not exactly the truth.)

 

I further don't believe that men have more room for improvement, as women are simply very selective about their sex partners, far more so than men. I know quite a number of women who didn't look like anything special, but had plenty of guys interested in them. Most of those took a rather active approach to dating, and weren't particularly shy about going after a guy they were interested in. I'm quite sure that relatively few women can simply sit back and weed out suitors, that is indeed true.

 

And when you try to explain this they tell you, "just go to a bar in a skimpy outfit and wait for guys to come up and offer to sleep with you" OH. Ohhhhhh. Okay. Really? And when you get over the incredulity of this suggestion and tell them you aren't exactly attracted to that idea or the men who accost you like that -- thirsty and foaming at the mouth all like -- and that perhaps, just maybe, you want some you are ATTRACTED TO (Not to say you have anything against gremlins carrying so many viruses most women would wear a hazmat suit to go near, you just don't think it's for you) they look at you as if you're squandering your privilege????:confused: These are the same men who tell you they don't date women over a certain weight, as well.

 

Did I ever say that? No, I don't think I would recommend wearing a skimpy outfit and going into a bar. That is just an idiotic approach. Of course you will attract all kinds of shady characters there. Why would you seek them out?

 

But that doesn't preclude you from taking a somewhat active role. Some of the biggest flirts among my female friends don't have any problem selectively picking guys out of a crowd, just as I have learned to respond to that type of behavior. A simple look and a smile is often enough.

 

It's really hard. It's hard to read threads about dating and sex and being incapable of jumping in bed with a guy on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd date because of an awful combination of shyness, morals, and general undesirability, while others can and do. It's hard to know you really have nothing to offer a man.

 

You think you're generally undesirable? Why would that be? And do you really think all guys outside of the casual scene are focused on getting you into bed on the 3rd date? I know that I took my time at times, but to this day I don't have a single ONS, and even that one time...I simply came back for more.

 

On the other hand, even after reading a lot of your posts, I still have no idea what you are really looking for in a man, other than a possible carbon-copy of your ex.

 

It's hard to know that this probably won't change for you. And perhaps worse of all, no one even believes it's possible for women. Your reality is denied. I'm not writing this for pity. OK, maybe I am. I don't know why I'm writing all this. A futile attempt to be understood, I suppose? IDK

 

I've seen women where it wasn't possible, but they were relatively few and it didn't take me long to realize why it wasn't possible for them. Maybe I really don't understand, not in regards to women in general, but why it would be impossible for you in particular.

[Cookiesandough]

You can't tell, like I said it is a subtle rejection, but it is a rejection. This blogger I found(who is a male) long ago explains the difference in m/f rejection better (I did not do it well). I actually found his blog when I was starting to consider approaching guys out of the blue and just wondering if that would be a good idea.

 

When you initiate contact with a man before you know his intentions, you are denying yourself the least equivocal and therefore most important indication of his interest. I will go as far as to say that you are denying yourself the only reliable indication of his interest.

 

A man might make eye contact with you from across the bar, but unless he overcomes his fear or leaves his buddies in order to approach you, he isn't into you enough. Don't approach him.

 

 

 

[...]However, I don't, because I realize that the rejections a man endures - although no less damaging to his pride - are easier to bear in light of the knowledge that he can approach more women in order to find a new girl. A woman has less direct control over new dating opportunities. Although she can improve her chances by making herself more attractive, she can't just approach men at will without being seen as crazy or desperate. She has to wait until another man (that she likes) approaches her.

 

[...]When I get turned down, I know that if I had been more confident or smarter, or otherwise a man of higher value, she would have been attracted to me. I make it my goal to always improve, so that next time I will walk away with her number. The same should go for you: when a guy walks away without your contact information, suck it up, figure out other ways to make yourself more attractive or personable (the other posts in this blog should help), then get back out there.

 

http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2012/03/bars-are-good-place-to-meet-guys-part-1.html?m=1

Edited October 30, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[RecentChange]

And who died and made this guy an expert?

 

Honestly I feel bad for those who can't just follow their gut, or have great difficulties with social skills in general and turn to these "internet experts" for advice....

 

Because they spew so much jibberish, and unless the reader has some first hand experience themselves, they are left not knowing truth from fiction.

 

It's not like a scientific article where the reader can fact check it....

 

I am a confident bold woman who is very comfortable around men. I have no problem starting that conversation after he made eye contact.

 

But apparently that is all wrong according to this guru.

 

I wonder what he would say about the fact I made the first kiss happen.... What can I say, he did pursue, but my husband used to be a bit shy

[CptInsano]

And who died and made this guy an expert?

 

That is a good question. The explanation in the article didn't seem particular plausible to me.

 

[...] I am a confident bold woman who is very comfortable around men.

 

I have seen women like you at work, and seriously, nobody can tell me that women are by default limited to a passive role. I honestly can't count how many women have started a conversation with me, and I didn't think any less of them because of it.

[Cookiesandough]

So sure....practically any woman can get sex....They also have to be concerned that of those guys that are supposedly interested in them for more than just a place to park their dick, how many are just lying and using them? And, not to be dramatic, but basically every woman actively dating is potentially turning their life and personal safety and well being over to some guy that she barely knows in the hope she isn't getting used up and/or discarded when he gets tired of her or didn't even really like or care about her in the first place?

 

I know sex is hard to come by for some guys, but when you start to think about what it is that women are up against, then the perceived "advantage" isn't as great as it appears..

 

TFY

Im just venting more but I get what thefooloftheyear is saying here. It's the case for a lot of women. I imagine the rejection after being used and discarded is very painful in a way that's similar or probably worse than a man being rejected after an approach or a date.

 

I try to give advice here to prevent it from happening because it does hurt me to see. The main reason it bothers me is the harm it causes/empathy, but another reason I must be honest about is that some jerk is getting sex and I find it unjust.

 

 

That aside,I'm baffled when I hear all these women talk about meeting all these handsome and/or charming men who dated them for sex or just ghosted on them after a few dates. Etc

 

First, she needs to find guys. She could just be attracted to a much wider variety of guys than me, but I don't believe that. Women are just pickier. Next, she is getting them to approach her. She could just be approaching/courting them, but again, I highly doubt that.

 

Then, (often) she's getting to a point with them where she is emotionally connecting/getting to know him enough to be emotionally invested. They 'click' at least to the point where she thinks there's a connection enough to be comfortable having sex. (Not always the case, sometimes they 'one thing leads to another and it just happens' >.> ...that completely eludes me, but whatever)

 

So she's already had several men she's extremely attracted and vice versa to wooing her. For me, I'm lucky to find a guy I'm attracted to every couple months and it usually ends after a brief staring match at the grocery store. nothing more.

 

I realize as I'm writing this the problem could be rich, suave, and outwardly charming doesn't really do it for me. It actually makes me run away. but Idk it might not even be that.

 

Most guys I date I really need to think outside the box to feel attraction to. It does happen it's just really rare and I can't get outside my head enough to hookup or connect. I think I would to connect before a hookup but I'm not sure if that would help. It doesn't matter anyway. I'm incapable of both so why am I thinking about this.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[Cookiesandough]

Thank you for the thoughtful response and clarification, cptinsano. Yes, this has been steadily bothering me more and more.

 

When I go out to the grocery store or shopping mall etc., men rarely ask me out. Close to never.

When I am in 'forced' social settings men ask me out a lot. For example, I went to FB event and we were all mingling. I got asked out by some men that night and even more messaged me on FB and said they liked me and wished we got a chance to talk and wanted my number. And I guess it's 'flattering', but I'd much rather be able to ask out one guy I'm interested in than get offers from some I'm not. It ultimately makes me feel more uncomfortable than good. I can't recropicate the interest, so someone ends up feeling bad. Whether that kind of attention is appreciated depends on the individual I believe.

 

Like that article said, It's not in my control, so I feel powerless, whereas men do hold the initial power. Unless you're bold like recent change. I think I am bold sometimes. I've initiated a kiss. But there's only so much a woman should do at the beginning. I believe that.

 

I don't think it's physical. Maybe a little, but I don't think looks are all that matters to all men). Some men, sure, but not all. In person I have received enough compliments and attention to where I feel I am avg/not bad looking. I could be wrong here though and have an inflated perception.

 

I think the predominant problem, however, is that I'm very awkward among other things(uncool, quite ditsy, uninteresting, a bit neurotic,etc. etc.). It's like I need to be recalibrated so I run smoother. I have a lot of aquaintances but they are all female and I don't go out much with them. Other than that I have a small circle and we go out to eat and sometimes events. So I'm relying mostly on 'cold approach.' It's hopeless.

----

 

Not to mention when I guy I am interested in talks to me, which is extemely rare but not impossible, I clam up. I cannot talk or I talk briefly and excuse myself to the restroom and leave. I actually ditched an online date in this manner because he was too attractuve I said I had to use the restroom and snuck out. I just cannot take talking to men I'm attracted most of the time. I have to put on a 'face' and I can't maintain it! It's hard even online... an attractive man will message me and I'll just ignore it. I am under no illusion I have enough to offer him. I know he is very, very confused. Plenty of other girls fit that shoe better.

 

I hope that explains some. I don't mean to sound like forever alone incel, the female equivalent of the guys who come on here with the 'I'm undesirable, awkward, case closed, woe is me' attitude even though I know that's exactly what it looks like.

 

I know I can improve. I just don't know where to start or if I can trick myself into believing it's worth the effort to get there.

Tldr; I don't get approached often by men I'm into and in the rare event I do I drive it into the ground swiftly

 

Sorry for the threadjack. Geing rejected sucks, indeed.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Cookiesandough