Guy won't kiss until exclusive. Flag or what?

[normal person]

Normal person, do you think I was too pushy (clingy) when I asked "what about kissing?" Maybe I came onto strong for his type especially since I already had made the hook up comment

 

I've had girls do similar stuff and it didn't bother me at all. In fact I'm sure whenever it happened I was probably relieved that they weren't too uptight about stuff. One girl even called me out for not using tongue. This guy just sounds very conservative and I'm not sure if that's something you want to deal with or not.

 

Am I the only one who likes this guy?

 

A kiss is probably a very intimate meaningful act in his eyes and he doesn't do it unless he feels safe.

 

There are guys\girls who feels the same about only a kiss, others can feel the same about sex, others about intercourse, and there are people who might participate a full orgy on first date. Everyone picks their own values.

 

Sure, everyone picks their own values, but this is 2017. Kissing is a safe and pretty widely acceptable practice. So much so that the thought of not doing until you're in a relationship with someone is thread-worthy. Most people today probably wouldn't even consider entering into a relationship with someone who they haven't at least kissed. Have your own values, but be prepared to deal with the consequences if they conflict with the pace of society.

 

I remember a thread a while back written by a young guy who was on the prowl for girls who had never kissed anyone before because he thought experiences were "the most special" when each person experiences it for the first time with each other. I doubt he had much luck. Basically, everyone thought it was delusional. People are free to look for their fairy tale, ultra chivalrous prince charming who opens doors and would never even dream of holding a girl's hand, let alone kissing, before "going steady" for 2 months, a date at the ice cream social, and written approval from her father, but I think those guys are a dying breed in 2017. Morel likely, women will question if he's gay, scared, lame, etc. He's got to ask himself if that's worth the risk and women have to ask themselves if they want to roll the dice on them. If I posited the scenario of a grown man waiting to kiss to "feel safe," to my female friends, they'd die laughing. The world just doesn't work like that anymore for most people. Hell, I'd bet everyone in this thread has kissed someone on a random night out and not remembered their name.

Edited September 26, 2017 by normal person

[lolablue17]

Most people today probably wouldn't even consider entering into a relationship with someone who they haven't at least kissed.

 

This is not the exact issue.

 

For me it's always exclusive from the beginning unless someone says otherwise. But when multi-dating has became so common, it's not wierd to feel uncomfortable to exchange fluids with someone who might do the same to morrow with someone else.

 

It's not a matter of "first relationship and then a kiss", but more "first exclusive and then a kiss".

 

I would ever never want to date anyone who is dating others at the same period. And I know many others, including youngs who feel the same.

[olivetree]

Am I the only one who likes this guy?

 

A kiss is probably a very intimate meaningful act in his eyes and he doesn't do it unless he feels safe.

 

There are guys\girls who feels the same about only a kiss, others can feel the same about sex, others about intercourse, and there are people who might participate a full orgy on first date. Everyone picks their own values.

 

Assuming he's doing it for his own values/reasons, I think it's kinda cute.

[normal person]

I would ever never want to date anyone who is dating others at the same period.

 

I think you'd be hard pressed to find those people in the early stages though. Especially if you meet someone on an ap, you know you're probably not the only person they're talking to on that, and you've probably got another person or two that you're auditioning too.

 

Conversely, I think it's odd to expect to be exclusive with someone without having kissed them first. To each their own, of course, but you've got to think that plenty of people these days are going to be aggressively shopping around. It's going to be hard to find someone who's willing to commit to you on that level first when there are plenty of other, less committal options to test out. Say you go against your instincts and you agree to be in a relationship with someone. Then you kiss and you don't really enjoy it. Then you sleep together and you really don't enjoy it. Now you've got to deal with this whole "girlfriend" title you adopted and you just found out you don't have much sexual chemistry with this guy.

 

Just my opinion, but it sounds like buying (or I guess, leasing) a car without test driving it. You sign the papers, drive out of the lot, and realize it's not smooth or there's no seat warmer or whatever you want. Yeah, you can take it back, but that lease is pretty tough to get out of. You're gonna pay for it. Just like backing out of the "girlfriend" status is something someone's likely going to pay for emotionally. I'd say if both people are down to "kick the tires" ahead of time with some kissing, that's more advantageous of a strategy. I've never kissed someone and then had them get upset because it didn't immediately imply exclusivity in that exact moment. Dating can be pretty cut throat, like it or not.

 

Estimated time to usual first kiss: 1-2 dates

Estimated time to usual sex: 3-6 dates (?)

Estimated time to usual "exclusivity" talk: 4-5 dates

 

It just seems like this guy's timeline is incongruent to the pace of society, or maybe it's just me and my warped views. Who knows?

Edited September 26, 2017 by normal person

[lolablue17]

Estimated time to usual first kiss: 1-2 dates

Estimated time to usual sex: 3-6 dates (?)

Estimated time to usual "exclusivity" talk: 4-5 dates

 

I had met women when the sex happened after 2 month, and I had some when it happend on the first date. Anyway, immediatelly after the first kiss\sex, it became exclusive.

 

Girls who wished to optimize processes and to check other options as well (and ther were some) lost me immediatelly. Some of them regreted, but I said no. I only dated women who were extremely interested in me.

 

I admit that the i find it hard to understand and accept, how and why so many young people give up losing control, give up the excitment of fresh passionate love which leads you to the unknown, and choose to be so planed, so designed, and so stingy with their emotions in the beginning.

[CryForNoOne]

to feel uncomfortable to exchange fluids with someone who might do the same to morrow with someone else.

 

It's not a matter of "first relationship and then a kiss", but more "first exclusive and then a kiss".

 

Seriously? Exchange fluids??? Do you also contemplate the dead animal your date exchanged fluids with at dinner as well??? Never mind the fact that after 24 hours, there isn't an actual iota of someone else's fluids in her mouth...

[Cookiesandough]

"Exchange fluids" makes it sound so disgusting to kiss, even one person.

 

Now that I think of it, this guy was asking me about my ex. He was egging me on. Because at dinner the second time we met up, he kept asking me what happened before. See, I had texted him if he was interested in hooking up. I told him I'd never done it before. He said he hasn't either but he's down.

 

Then I told him, "never mind I am so sorry. I just said that because I was trying to get over my ex and I can't. It's better if we don't see each other anymore because I'm not over him."But we rematched and started talking again.

 

So he kept asking me questions at dinner like how long I had been with him, do we still talk, why we broke up etc. It was cathartic and easily one of the better dates I've had. He asked me why I talked to him again. I said I am now over my ex and in a healthy place (Guess not true, but I thought so at that time I swear)

 

. But before I went over to his house last night, I told him I had started crying about my ex (seeing him pop up on FB) so I'd be running a little late. Jeez the more I think about this the worse it becomes.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[No_Go]

Absolutely agree for exclusivity from the beginning.

 

I've kissed guys (my last ex) on date 1, but i never doubted exclusivity until I started reading stories on this forum

 

For me I will never agree going on a date without being 100% certain this is a guy I can picture a RL (LTR) with. With OLD this is very easy because nearly all the data necessary can be collected and processed before date 1. Date 1 is just a fraud-check and if the guy is game - I'm willing to be exclusive afterwards.

 

I think people made up excuse stories in their mind (oh it's not a date just a meet) to calm down their guilty conscience A date is a date, kissing 2 people in the same time is cheating, I personally don't make any difference between exchange of saliva or genital fluids - it IS intimacy.

 

This is not the exact issue.

 

For me it's always exclusive from the beginning unless someone says otherwise. But when multi-dating has became so common, it's not wierd to feel uncomfortable to exchange fluids with someone who might do the same to morrow with someone else.

 

It's not a matter of "first relationship and then a kiss", but more "first exclusive and then a kiss".

 

I would ever never want to date anyone who is dating others at the same period. And I know many others, including youngs who feel the same.

[No_Go]

Oh you're still CRYING for your ex - Cookies please, get away from OLD - you're absolutely not ready for it...

 

"Exchange fluids" makes it sound so disgusting to kiss, even one person.

 

Now that I think of it, this guy was asking me about my ex. He was egging me on. Because at dinner the second time we met up, he kept asking me what happened before. See, I had texted him if he was interested in hooking up. I told him I'd never done it before. He said he hasn't either but he's down.

 

Then I told him, "never mind I am so sorry. I just said that because I was trying to get over my ex and I can't. It's better if we don't see each other anymore because I'm not over him."But we rematched and started talking again.

 

So he kept asking me questions at dinner like how long I had been with him, do we still talk, why we broke up etc. It was cathartic and easily one of the better dates I've had. He asked me why I talked to him again. I said I am now over my ex and in a healthy place (Guess not true, but I thought so at that time I swear)

 

. But before I went over to his house last night, I told him I had started crying about my ex (seeing him pop up on FB) so I'd be running a little late. Jeez the more I think about this the worse it becomes.

[Gaeta]

"Exchange fluids" makes it sound so disgusting to kiss, even one person.

 

Now that I think of it, this guy was asking me about my ex. He was egging me on. Because at dinner the second time we met up, he kept asking me what happened before. See, I had texted him if he was interested in hooking up. I told him I'd never done it before. He said he hasn't either but he's down.

 

Then I told him, "never mind I am so sorry. I just said that because I was trying to get over my ex and I can't. It's better if we don't see each other anymore because I'm not over him."But we rematched and started talking again.

 

So he kept asking me questions at dinner like how long I had been with him, do we still talk, why we broke up etc. It was cathartic and easily one of the better dates I've had. He asked me why I talked to him again. I said I am now over my ex and in a healthy place (Guess not true, but I thought so at that time I swear)

 

. But before I went over to his house last night, I told him I had started crying about my ex (seeing him pop up on FB) so I'd be running a little late. Jeez the more I think about this the worse it becomes.

 

It took 4 pages but we finally got the whole story out of you ;-)

 

You mentionned your ex (and your struggle) to this guy on a first contact a while ago. Then you get back in touch and of course he wants to know where you're standing concerning that ex. Normal so far.

 

While heading to his place for a date you see your ex on FB and you start craying so you're running late to your date. And for some crazy reason instead of telling him you're running late because your mom called you think it's normal to tell him you're running late because you cried over your ex *expression of disbelief*. AFTER all of this you wonder why this man didn't go for a kiss...........?

[Cookiesandough]

Yes. I embarrassed myself (again) on a date. I probably do this every date, just don't notice. I admitted it because I wanted an excuse to rant about it with him. I knew I wouldn't be feeling my chipper self on the date.

 

I'm talking to cute guys right now and I really want to go on a 1st date with them. I think just these ones and I'll stop for a while. I SWEAR. I know I sound like a drug addict but the dates are already in motion for a long time.

 

 

Thank you all for helping me get to the bottom. This discussion can be closed. I think I found my answer thanks to you all but I'll never be 100% sure. He is a bit traditional.

[coolheadal]

No mu ex and I are done. There is nothing more there. With our history, it cannot be. I have accepted it and it has been several months so I feel like I should not have to wait forever alone. What do you mean Clinger? Have I acted clingy? My ex and I dated for like a year and I have not even dated anymore else more than a few dates so I wouldn't know. I've never had anyone lose interest in dating me. And I feel like I don't have problems letting go just my ex because it was a year and a semi serious relationship and I thought I acted badly throughout it and broke up with him 2x

 

But he eventually got fed up with me and it's understandable. He is still my first experiences and I will love him forever probably

 

Wow that made me shed a tear at the end of your message here.. So true and honest your words. You really meant this.. See what love has to offer it's so powerful it's just a word it really means more to you.. Now you see the truth.

[Dis]

Cookies, these threads are like soap operas

 

One after the other after the other

 

No resolution in site

 

The issue that needs to be addressed never gets addressed

 

Lots of self absorbed, egocentric, self sabotaging, inconsiderate, remorseless behavior

 

I swear these threads would make some fantastic day time soaps

 

And after every thread, some poor, unsuspecting guy gets the axe, only for another sucker to pop up soon after. All the while you do nothing to stop this pattern of hurting other people. This guy will be crushed once he gets attached only to find out you're not over your ex

 

Its sad

 

I really feel for these guys

Edited September 26, 2017 by Disillusionment373

[preraph]

If you've been talking about your ex and telling him what you do and don't like, which amounts to rules, he may be paralyzed about what you DO like.

 

I think it's weird when anyone wants to hold out kissing. I don't see the point unless you're just not attracted to them and don't want to get anything started. I can understand a young person holding their chastity for the right guy, but honestly I think that's a waste of time too. Because they'll hold it and then still end up with some guy that's not going to last because they have no experience and are naive.

 

I don't think a guy saving himself is ever a good thing and I've never met one who did it for a good reason, just ones who did it because they were fearful or impotent or gay or socially stunted.

[Dis]

I think the question is Cookies...

 

After all the guys you've hurt and continue to mislead without feeling the least bit of remorse or compassion

 

Why are you doing this? Why dont you stop?

[Cookiesandough]

TY, Al. It is true.

 

& I do feel remorse, dis. If I did hurt/annoy anyone, I feel crappy. I have never mislead anyone. I keep doing it I guess because I'm trying to find someone I click with and makes me feel as excited as my ex and vice versa, but it's hard. My intentions are good but I always sabotage it somehow. If I am open, I will come off really unattractive(like talking about my ex) so I cant be open. I have to put up a front. It seems so easy for everyone else to find someone they like a lot to date, even casually, but for me it's such a challenge. I read problems here and most people find people they click with and have an amazing connection with but there's some problem...I can't get passed the first step!!! I'm sorry can this thread be closed. I will not be dating after these next couple dates so no making threads for a LONG time until I work on myself or I'll never have a healthy rship. I know that.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[Dis]

TY, Al. It is true.

 

& I do feel remorse, dis. If I did hurt/annoy anyone, I feel crappy. I have never mislead anyone. I keep doing it I guess because I'm trying to find someone I click with and makes me feel as excited as my ex and vice versa, but it's hard. My intentions are good but I always sabotage it somehow. If I am open, I will come off really unattractive(like talking about my ex) so I cant be open. I have to put up a front. It seems so easy for everyone else to find someone they like a lot to date, even casually, but for me it's such a challenge. I read problems here and most people find people they click with and have an amazing connection with but there's some problem...I can't get passed the first step!!! I'm sorry can this thread be closed. I will not be dating after these next couple dates so no making threads for a LONG time until I work on myself or I'll never have a healthy rship. I know that.

 

Cookies, I truly dont mean to bash you but you have a way of manipulating the situation and justifying your actions

 

IF you hurt anyone? Its not a question of if you did. You DID. Theres tons of threads to prove it. I've delt with many people who phrase apologies like this, "I'm sorry IF I hurt you." Thats not sincere and its not taking accountability for the reality of what they've done.

 

You want to find someone you click with. Ok, that would be reasonable enough if the process didnt involve misleading guys and hurting them. You can want whatever you dare to, but if it invloves harm coming to other people... you need to put your wants aside and stop

 

I know other people have mentioned this to you and you have disputed it, but I honestly think you might have borderline personality disorder. You fit the defintion to a T! Theres no shame if you do have it, you just need to get treatment

 

Don't you, yourself talk about how messed up people are when it comes to OLD? But here you are, contributing to the dysfunction... not caring about people...being unkind...using people. Even if its not your intention. Thats whats you're doing...

 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

[act00]

Cookie, for the record, no kissing until "exclusive" would be a deal-breaker for me. You and I have different ideas on what we like as far as touching on the first date (possibly in general), and I'm okay with a lot more than you. If I don't get some affection, hand holding, touching, and a kiss, I'm assuming he's not interested. I can probably survive no kiss if there were other acts of affection, but there has to be something. I'm older and I'm SO OVER this no kiss on the first date crap. No hand holding or anything?? Yikes!

 

I had a guy tell me outright he didn't kiss until <I can't remember a time frame> and it was pretty much done and done at that point for me. Sorry, no thanks. No kissy, no datey. I have dated men who show very little to no affection unless they're working towards some sexy time, and at that point...no. Nothing in between the sexy time means no sexy time, and this is a whole package of good rapport and friendship with affection and chemistry.

 

Interestingly enough, the last guy I saw who was not affectionate at all griped a lot about his ex. I asked him repeatedly if he was truly over her, to which he responded he was, but there's no way he has moved on if he's using me as a therapist and of course a fair level of trash-talking her...so again...no.

 

If I'm understanding correctly, he really pushed you to talk about your ex, and of course you felt pretty safe to do it because he was prodding, and it was nice to be able to unload, but the reality is, with new dates, you need to build a boundary. I see absolutely no point in details. You can state, vaguely what went wrong, but don't go into detail and even say, "You know, I don't want to talk about him. It's in the past." As your relationship grows, other aspects of the old relationship(s) will come out, but even in a long-term relationship, is EVERY detail about your past relationships important?

 

He made a mistake in prodding. Now it's like a comparison and this is self-inflicted. Not a good place to be, and he carries fault in that because he pushed the subject. I can't imagine how to move forward with future dates if everything that comes up includes "what would your ex do?" Um...no.

[CryForNoOne]

This whole thread reminds me of the one I created about a month ago regarding multi-dating. I think I had 6 dates in 2 weeks, kissing 5 of them and sleeping 2 of them. Both the reactions from those women I dated and people on the thread were all over the place. For me, a kiss is nothing more than an expression of romantic interest. I'm also trying to see if there is some sexual chemistry, but it certainly isn't an indication of exclusivity. It seems two of the women, didn't see it that way though, as they went postal when I did the slow fade or rejected their further advances. Ironically, neither of the 2 women I actually slept with felt that sex even implied exclusivity. As it turned out, one of them wanted to continue sleeping with me after she got back together with her ex. My point, everybody has a different standard for what it means. Though in general, I believe a kiss means much less for men than women in general. Aside from ultra-conservative types, which are virtually non-existent in a city like LA, I can't imagine a guy having a rule that he doesn't kiss until exclusive. But C&D, I suppose it depends on where you live and what OLD site you are using. No way you'd meet a guy like that on Tinder, POF, or OKC. Maybe Christian Mingle or Farmer's Only...