Red Flags....

[Space Ritual]

Sure, she changed her password back. And she leaves her phone in the open. That's good. But it's not enough. Once cheaters have been caught, they are also really good at taking it underground. I mentioned before, but read through the Infidelity and Other Man/Woman forums here to get a better idea of the lengths lovers will go to hide their affair. If you're going to stay, you need to be a lot more informed about how people who cheat operate.

 

 

True.....I expect a Burner Phone is in the offing if it does not already exist. There is a good reason as to why she is all of a sudden leaving the phone out and has agreed about the password. That phone is no longer a communication option. So either secret email account or a burner phone would be the most likely and easy fix.

 

James, she TOLD you that she ended it. She did not do it in front of you and it was tearful... for all you know they just got their stories straight on how to proceed. If she really told you it was tearful that is above the realm of disrespect, as she IS INTO HIM TOTALLY.

 

Jesus if my ex had pulled that my foot would have been so far up her ass she would have tasted my shoelaces. Talk about putting the needs of the OM over your relationship.

 

 

Man this is going to end horribly. I can feel it right through my screen.

[LivingWaterPlease]

James, am so sorry for what you've been through and are most likely still going through. I believed it's possible that she didn't sleep with him until you wrote that they cried together about breaking off their friendship. That doesn't add up with what she's told you about their relationship.

 

I'm not so cynical that I believe a man and lady can't spend lots of time together dating without having sex but the crying thing doesn't go along with that type scenario.

 

You mentioned you'd gotten an app that showed you all of her texts. Are you sure she doesn't have some kind of messaging system that isn't traceable?

 

My experience from observing relationships over the years has been that a woman or man who will behave as your gf has before marriage will often cheat afterwards.

 

But, for me, even if I had a bf who behaved this way but didn't have a PA of any sort, I'd break up with him. I have zero tolerance for a bf spending leisure time with another woman he isn't related to. Not that I'd demand he not. I'd just let him spend all his time with her and find someone more compatible with my values.

 

In any case, I wish you the best and believe you're continuing this relationship with your eyes wide open.

[niji]

But, for me, even if I had a bf who behaved this way but didn't have a PA of any sort, I'd break up with him. I have zero tolerance for a bf spending leisure time with another woman he isn't related to. Not that I'd demand he not. I'd just let him spend all his time with her and find someone more compatible with my values

 

Or a man. But if it's a woman, much easier to seal the deal

 

Joking aside, James, as a woman I can tell you that your gf is very emotionally invested in her coworker. You think you already know this without me telling you, yeah I'm sure you do, BUT I don't think you can grasp what it means for her to be that heavily emotionally invested.

 

It means that she's detached from you so much that she can give all her emotions to someone else. You already stated that you two have drifted apart, but I also don't think you see the magnitude of it.

 

The problem is, she hasn't shown you that she's recommitted to the relationship. Like everyone here has suggested, showing you her phone/emails AFTER you've busted the EA doesn't mean much; one can acquire 1, 2, 3, n burner phones to communicate; phones these days are so cheap you can get them for 5 Starbucks drinks worth. Not to mention that they still work together and can just communicate via emails/talk to each other at work.

 

Which leads me to another HUGE point. If she still works there, the promise that they won't be talking again means nothing. I can firmly tell you that at this point, she is still obsessed with the coworker (I'm not gonna say "in love" because I don't know what that word "love" means in the setting of an affair, at least from the perspective of the taken party), and any contact at all means that she cannot disengage.

 

Please please please, do not let this go until you have absolute evidence of them no longer working with each other aka ZERO contact. Because at this point, from her POV, her relationship with the other guy is like that of star-crossed lovers. I love you but I'm already taken, I will love you in the next life Otherwise, why the crying? Because they feel that YOU are the obstacle preventing them from getting together, and she's staying with you because of responsibility, familiarity, etc Whatever it is, it's not love, at least not at this point.

 

I'm not gonna jump on the ship to say you need to leave her; you guys have a history together that, until this point, has been relatively blissful. It's a long /fulfilling history to just give up. I also don't necessarily think she's staying for the "provider"; there's a lot that makes one stay not necessarily out of love. My worst fear is one day my partner stays with me out of responsibility, guilt, or pity. It's soul and confidence-destroying.

 

I believe that it's possible for her to recommit to your relationship, but not without her:

 

1) Quitting her job (unless he quits before her)

2) Start spending most of her free time with you

 

Those are the core requirements.

Edited July 18, 2017 by niji

[Try]

Cheating happens when there's a lack of connection in a relationship.

Every long term relationships will have multiple periods of time where there will be a disconnection. This is a normal part of the human condition. Cheaters use these periods of disconnection as an excuse to cheat. Non-cheaters use these same periods to work on reconnecting with their partner.

 

They're not evil villains plotting some scheme.

You are right that cheaters are "not evil villains plotting some scheme." Cheaters are just selfish liars that work with their affair partners (AP) in "plotting some scheme" to fool their partners into first believing that they are crazy to suspect that there is cheating going on, and then after they are caught into buying into their blame shifting.

 

We're gonna work on us. If it doesn't work.. if she feels like he's the man she should be with. I'll make it easy for her to express herself, come clean and we can both go on with our lives. No need for all of the resentment and drama.

What you just do not understand, because at your core you are not a cheater, is that she as a cheater does not think like you. She does not want her AP over you. She wants both you and the AP over just you, and she knows that this can only happy if she lies about the true extent of her relationship with her AP, and if she can get you to buy into her blame shifting. Your situation is right out of the cheaters script that all of us have seen time and again on this site.

 

BTW: Has she agreed to immediately find a new job? Because if not then the affair will most likely resume after a short break.

[usa1ah]

Cheating happens when there's a lack of connection in a relationship.

 

They're not evil villains plotting some scheme. The most ridiculous absurd bull**** Poutrew said is "ohhh yes we got him!! and soon we can convince him to had a 3-Some with us!!!"

 

You really think that's rational?

 

I thank all of those here who have been loving and supportive. Regardless of your opinion I can tell you've been looking out for my best interest. You know who you all are. Thank you!

 

on the other hand I can tell that some of you who were shaming are still holding resentment for you personal **** and I refuse to go down that road.

 

We're gonna work on us. If it doesn't work.. if she feels like he's the man she should be with. I'll make it easy for her to express herself, come clean and we can both go on with our lives. No need for all of the resentment and drama.

 

There are some people like this. They go out of the way to be cruel, especially women toward their ex.

[JamesHa]

I wanted to come back in here an update. I believe I posted this back in Sept when we broke up.. but I did it in a different thread, should've just kept it in this thread.

 

Thank you everybody for standing your ground even when I thought I could ave the relationship.

 

I'll post my post a few months ago then do another one of updating now

 

----

 

I posted back in July 14th and I'll be open. A month and a half later I realized it wasn't working out.

 

Our connection, the intimacy, the sex... everything was amazing for the month in the half. We were communicating like never before.

 

We put in so much work that weekend together, and we continued to work on it. I thought we were capable of healing.

 

Even expressing our emotions and being vulnerable with each other. It seemed like it was over with her and the OM.

 

Today she was acting odd. The same type of coldness she gave me when I first caught her cheating. I was just playing around with her on text and she was very dismissive... it was weird and different compared to most of the month and a half.

 

I decided to go with my gut feeling and confront her to see the phone bill and he was still in the picture.

 

I sent her home packing.

 

I'm sad.. angry... yet excited about my future. I really feel she was holding me back in a lot.. in an almost subtle way... but her energy just wasn't right for me and my purpose.

 

It pisses me off that she tried to make finances a thing...

 

I put so much pressure on myself to provide for the both of us.

 

I was seeing more money coming in this past month and a half.

 

Even sent her $600 + ( I dont regret doing so)

 

She brought up BS from our past, that I stopped doing once we talked after I caught her cheating in July.

 

I come to think of it... and I've felt so much guilt with falling short on finances.... (Im going through bankruptcy... going to court on Wed)

 

"What if we lose the house???" was one of her fears that lead her to her cheating.

 

Well excuse the **** out of me... but we wouldn't have a home together if it weren't for me in the first place.......

 

Anyway I'm ranting.

 

There's part of me that feels guilty..

Some of it's second guessing what I could have been different

 

All in all I was growing and she didn't want to grow with me.

 

Our challenges is no reason for her to cheat.

 

And if she slips up... I gave her a chance. I supported her more than most men would, and it feels like a slap in the face for her to point out the bad.

 

I choose to Love & Accept myself... and continue to focus on my goals.

 

Thank You everybody who's helped me in the previous thread.

 

I did tune the thread out because I thought I could heal our relationship and didn't want it to play into paranoia.

 

but here I am... back like some people said ;-)

 

I'm happy I didn't let it go on for too long and it was only a month and a half.

 

And **** it during the month and a half the sex was great and very frequent. So it was sort of like a sex marathon before the end.

 

Feels good to be out of limbo.

[JamesHa]

SO since September i went in total no contact. 6 Weeks after our break up she contacted me, we connected a little bit but I could still tell she would lie about ****.

 

I was never trying to interrogate her or anything. I was laid back... it felt like almost a re-set for both of us. No commitment, no relationship.

 

I can tell she has interest it me but she just ****ing lies... and I'm brought deeper into this reality that our relationship was meant to end. That the communication issues she has had caught up on her.

 

Sure over 7 years I definitely slip up, but that's no reason to cheat and lie.

 

And.. I realize all the red flags i used to point out and she'd get defensive over... is what had a domino effect and eventually lead her to cheating when things got tough in our relationship.

 

I made the mistake of improving my relationship, communication skills etc. I invested a lot into coaching.

 

She always lived this illusion that there's nothing we needed to change and our relationship was just fine.

 

So I guess looking back on all of this in a strange way I can at least say I was right all along lol.

 

The guy she had an affair with got into a serious car accident right after we both got back into contact. She then went back into the hot & cold bull**** again and I didn't bother pursuing her.

 

I don't like celebrating another man's downfall especially since his health is involved.

 

But I will be completely honest and admit that I do find it amusing that this once "Affair Paradise" my former was running off to turns almost immediately into rock bottom. Her affair looks in worse shape than what she claimed our relationship did.

 

For me I am deciding to travel the world in 2018

 

Meeting amazing women.

 

Probably won't tie down to a relationship for a while and just have some fun for now.

 

I won't hold grudges toward my former partner.. and I will always be grateful for the time we shared together.

 

I won't close the door completely to connecting with her. But I will never try to prove to her ever.

 

We have some awesome history together but it's all about what have you done for me lately. And lately she's been an emotional wreck and her BS knocks me off my focus.

 

If she were open to coaching, learning, growing and truly realizing her ****. Sure . But honestly that doesn't even seem likely at this point. I just think she is who she is...

 

During the end she held resentment for me for wanting to bring the best out of her. Sure I think I approached it the wrong from time to time. But I never tried to really pressure her to change or anything like that. Just always wanted the best for her and for us... wanted us both to evolve together.

 

I accepted for who she is . **** I even accepted her and tried to work on it when I discovered the affair.

 

This process will serve her well. She may have to live with the fact that she completely destroyed something amazing. She may or may not learn from it. Oh well.

 

Rejection is Protection.

 

Thank God we weren't married

 

I'm now truly seeing the gift in all of this.

[Space Ritual]

I won't close the door completely to connecting with her. But I will never try to prove to her ever.

 

 

James,

 

Had you listened to us in July you would have been 3 months farther along in your healing.

 

Well at least you finally wised up....sort of.

 

You can never leave a door open to this one. She knows full well what buttons to push to manipulate you as she has done it for a long time.

 

No Contact=No new hurts.

 

And yet you are hurt yet again, because you were in contact and she gave you a whiff of how things used to be.

 

I am sorry yo had contact with her after all these weeks but dude, you HAVE to block her from contacting you ever again. It is the only way .

 

She cheated on you, and continued to lie to your face through her tears and pouting. We all knew it from the get go.

 

And now you know it too.

 

Never speak to her again...I assure you that you will come out of this alright..as ling as you never speak to her ever again. As far as you are concerned she has died...the old her that you were in love with died some time ago

[Space Ritual]

 

I don't like celebrating another man's downfall especially since his health is involved.

 

Ok well in that case I'll celebrate for you!

 

(don't feel bad, when Ronald Reagan died I hosted a "Reagan's Finally Dead Dance Party" and we tore the roof off the place)

 

So with that in mind....

 

 

 

Here's to a painful and embarrassing recovery that involves a lot of diarrhea.....

[JamesHa]

James,

 

Had you listened to us in July you would have been 3 months farther along in your healing.

 

Well at least you finally wised up....sort of.

 

You can never leave a door open to this one. She knows full well what buttons to push to manipulate you as she has done it for a long time.

 

No Contact=No new hurts.

 

And yet you are hurt yet again, because you were in contact and she gave you a whiff of how things used to be.

 

I am sorry yo had contact with her after all these weeks but dude, you HAVE to block her from contacting you ever again. It is the only way .

 

She cheated on you, and continued to lie to your face through her tears and pouting. We all knew it from the get go.

 

And now you know it too.

 

Never speak to her again...I assure you that you will come out of this alright..as ling as you never speak to her ever again. As far as you are concerned she has died...the old her that you were in love with died some time ago

 

You're right. It feels a lot better to keep the door shut completely. At this point its crazy to hold onto some sort of fantasy that's she's working on herself or the past situation. Truthfully it just seems at this point when she contacted looking beneath it all its like she still wanted to see if I was in reach/ And even the attention I gave her was way too much.

[Marc878]

Her affair in all probablility never stopped. Your trying to nice her back just enabled it.

 

All cheaters lie, hide and deny.

 

It might be a good idea to get STD testing.

[Floveet]

I have to say...

Something i've learned from this forum is to ALWAYS follow what experience users says.

 

But I have to agree James that it is not easy to do so when your former is front of you.

Lies can be as beautiful as the truth.

 

I wish you the best and enjoy your new single life for the time being

[doyathinkso]

 

 

 

She may have to live with the fact that she completely destroyed something amazing. She may or may not learn from it. Oh well.

 

 

I think the smart money would be on "may not".

 

This should be none of your concern.

 

Remember ... Not my circus. Not my monkeys.

 

Now carry on. Chalk this one up to experience, bitter experience.

 

Thankfully though this has caused some personal growth for you. Whoever you end up with in the future will enjoy the benefits of this new and improved you.

[road]

I went and read the first post.

 

Why?

 

To see how the affair restarted.

 

What I found was that the OM worked with the WW.

 

A quick look back I did not see that you required WW to

leave that job to have NC with the OM.

 

Without that important step done it let the WW's addiction

to the OM pull her back in.

[JamesHa]

I went and read the first post.

 

Why?

 

To see how the affair restarted.

 

What I found was that the OM worked with the WW.

 

A quick look back I did not see that you required WW to

leave that job to have NC with the OM.

 

Without that important step done it let the WW's addiction

to the OM pull her back in.

 

Great point. I foolishly thought we could work things out. We did a great job at communicating after discovering the affair and I thought if we took care of business at home base it would all work out.

 

I look back and do think she made an attempt but we were both ignorant of what we were facing. Instead of being open about the intensity of the affair I'm certain she tried to downplay it.

 

She should have left that job a long time ago. It's a ****ty environment and I feel a big part of the affair even starting in the first place was her being in a bad place and not doing anything to honor herself and get out of it. No matter how many times I encouraged her to live her purpose and place herself in a better environment with less stress.

 

Even now she lives with her dad.. we haven't talked much but she has mentioned wanting to get another job (not related on the affair we didn't bring it up after the break up)

 

We both need to learn and grow.

 

Anyway they don't work together as of now cause he's in the hospital probably in worse financial shape than I was when she had the affair.

 

But she no longer has me either.

 

I've set my boundaries.

 

I'm grateful we weren't married and we didn't have kids.

[BluesPower]

Great point. I foolishly thought we could work things out. We did a great job at communicating after discovering the affair and I thought if we took care of business at home base it would all work out.

 

I look back and do think she made an attempt but we were both ignorant of what we were facing. Instead of being open about the intensity of the affair I'm certain she tried to downplay it.

 

She should have left that job a long time ago. It's a ****ty environment and I feel a big part of the affair even starting in the first place was her being in a bad place and not doing anything to honor herself and get out of it. No matter how many times I encouraged her to live her purpose and place herself in a better environment with less stress.

 

Even now she lives with her dad.. we haven't talked much but she has mentioned wanting to get another job (not related on the affair we didn't bring it up after the break up)

 

We both need to learn and grow.

 

Anyway they don't work together as of now cause he's in the hospital probably in worse financial shape than I was when she had the affair.

 

But she no longer has me either.

 

I've set my boundaries.

 

I'm grateful we weren't married and we didn't have kids.

 

And yet still James, you continue to make excuses for her, instead of just admitting to yourself what type of woman that you fell in love with (BOLD ABOVE).

 

Even with everything you learned from all the people that posted you still have a level of denial.

 

Please stop thinking that way. It is what ruined your relationship from the beginning. And, if you continue to be "MR. Nice Guy", the woman in your next relationship will do exactly the same thing to you as this one did.

 

You simply must understand that women appreciate strength, not weakness and they always have.

 

You have to carry yourself outwardly like you understand your worth and that you have a high self worth.

 

I am not banging on you, I am just hoping to get you to understand the finer points of life...

[JamesHa]

And yet still James, you continue to make excuses for her, instead of just admitting to yourself what type of woman that you fell in love with (BOLD ABOVE).

 

Even with everything you learned from all the people that posted you still have a level of denial.

 

Please stop thinking that way. It is what ruined your relationship from the beginning. And, if you continue to be "MR. Nice Guy", the woman in your next relationship will do exactly the same thing to you as this one did.

 

You simply must understand that women appreciate strength, not weakness and they always have.

 

You have to carry yourself outwardly like you understand your worth and that you have a high self worth.

 

I am not banging on you, I am just hoping to get you to understand the finer points of life...

 

I understand completely & thank you. I didn't intend that to be an excuse for her. She placed herself in that environment, she chose to stay at the same space for 7 years now, she chose not to feed her mind & be in a good place.

 

Her inner world created her environment, and even when I attempted to help her evolve with me she'd get defensive as if I didn't accept her as she is.

 

And I get that too.. I'm confident I approached in the right way when helping inspire her to become the greatest version of herself. She just wouldn't.

 

I look back on the original posts and can't believe how much I tried to over-compensate with showing her how nice I was to her. It goes totally against how respect & attraction works... and especially after she crossed the line like that.

 

This is not how I attracted her and this wasn't how most of our relationship went, I lost sense of that moving into this new area of my life and taking on this new level of stress being an Entrepreneur.

 

I understand Masculine Energy and I was aware I was losing my grip in the relationship. I didn't feel like a man anymore and I saw it even before the affair. I didn't know what the hell to do to regain it... I felt trapped. We both felt trapped.

 

Stepping away gave me a new perspective and helped me re-gain my identity... and evolve... and create stronger boundaries. I would be lying if I said it didn't hurt now, but I've been staying solid on my boundaries.

 

It's still a work in progress with a lot of learning, re-learning & creating a new life.

 

Being centered in my masculine will serve me in my Purpose.

 

It feels better and lighter being single as I navigate through this.

[JamesHa]

Nearly One Year Later...

 

(it had been 1 year later... before D-Day but still I knew something was possibly going on with the other man)

 

I did a lot of healing... went no contact for a long time. A lot of emotional release through Winter time of this year.

 

By the end of February I was attracting women into my world which I felt has been on a whole other level than I ever had dated before. It was abundant too.. so many option of amazing healthy women who were fully in their power.

 

Fast Forward to the beginning of May I went out on a first date with an amazing woman I knew from Facebook but also lived an hour away. We knew each other online since January or so and instantly we were a fan of each other's work. (I do business online so having a lot of online friends is sort of a thing).

 

6 Wks later I'm in a brand new relationship that feels amazing. It seems almost unreal how life did a 180 in just a year but I also worked through a ton of emotions throughout this past year. It also seems unreal that its been a year already.

--------

Side-note: Also.. my mother died in the beginning of January so I've been through a lot of grieving.. but also saw my Dad go through a major transformation in his weight and his emotional health.

-------

 

Anyway it's been beautiful.

 

> She is extremely appreciative of everything I do for her.. even if its the small things.

 

> We collaborate together in our businesses so on days we do hang out it feels like we're both dating but also being extremely productive.. its magical.

 

> Just by being around her I had my best month ever in business (in this original post i was going through a bankruptcy) Oh and we're only half way through the month lol

 

> She earns more money than me currently.. but in many cases we've had the same journey with our money situations.

 

> I take her out on dates and can confidently lead as a man... she brings life into me and she allows me to lead in my masculine... but also she's always giving... and in instances she treats for dinner or drinks.. but it doesn't feel emasculating at all.

 

> She fully understands my lifestyle as a business owner.

 

> Without being extremely detailed I'll just say Sex is amazing. (even though we just started that) but she's just extremely passionate, giving and present.

 

> We both build each other up. Not even intentionally of trying to "Fix" each other.. but just by being in each other's space we make each other stronger.

 

> Communication has been effortless and we consciously communicate everything.. It feels like there's no wall or filter.

 

> She's very into personal growth, spirituality and business like me. Her energy is very nurturing but she also knows how to get things done and bring a vision into reality.

 

-----------

 

I admit that while keeping my distance with my Ex I still tried to be a good man... to be good friends with her.

 

I tried to give her opportunities to see my dog (but the dog we bought together) but she seems very uninterested.

 

Karma did come around and the dude she had an affair with got in a serious car accident and had to apply for govt assistance.

 

In my view point I want to bring life into all my relationships and I do value the almost 7 years we shared together. I wanted to show her love regardless of her future relationships.

 

As soon as me and my new girlfriend were in a relationship publicly on Social Media she unfriended me (I have a plugin that notifies me about unfriends and ppl who are inactive because I run my business mainly on FB)

 

I understand unfollowing or avoiding it but I found it very childish and it even had me feeling guilty for enjoying my life. I know its stupid because I did everything from a place of honor. She's the one who cheated yet I felt guilty.

I decided to take it a step further and just block her from all social media. Shes not loud and doesn't say hurtful things to me but I think I use that as an excuse to pretend she's not abusive in her behavior. I wouldn't say she's a full blown Narcissist but I'm starting to feel I've been silently dealing with a lot of Narc traits and taking on a silent form of abuse and resentment from her.

 

I've been doing a ton of healing but this week I hit another layer and realized that i truly need to let go of all responsibility of what happened in that relationship. I have so much to embrace right now and so much good happening in my life.

 

It feels like the final baptizing of entering this new chapter of my life and letting go of all the little things that remains. I gave everything for that past relationship. It's absolutely ridiculous to have any blame on myself.. or to feel any guilt for experiencing an amazing relationship presently that I waited for and did the inner work for.

 

Thank You so much for everybody who gave me tough love in here... because at times I didn't want to hear it and I wanted to give somebody that I loved the benefit of the doubt over and over again.

 

Anybody else reading this who are going through it... I just want you to know that even when it feels like the life you once knew is crumbling... and often our mind focuses on what we're losing instead of what we're gaining.

 

There's so much more available to you on the other side of an abusive relationship.

 

I mourned all winter... now it's time to Celebrate.

 

Thank You everybody for bringing me to reality when I was in the thick of it. Even during times where I was defensive.

[BluesPower]

You know, it took you forever... to understand what was going on and everyone could see it from your first post.

 

But now, you finally understand. Now you finally get it.

 

You really have done well.

 

Enjoy your new R, but just remember...

 

You are a good man, but MAN is the key word there, don't ever let yourself become something else.

 

Just like everyone said, after you got through that last bag of crap, life can be grand.

 

Just stay strong, never be a doormat, never let yourself be disrespected, trust but verify...