OLD & warm up before meeting

[No_Go]

From a woman's perspective I can tell you that out of the say 300 messages I got on OKC in my last round of OLD few years ago, only maybe 10-20 had content in them. The rest were nonsense like 'Hey', 'How was your day', 'I like your pictures', 'Wanna grab a drink' or something generic. No movie star looks or witty profile would make me respond to these and most women I know feel the same way.

 

I think if guys stop being bitter and actually tailor their messages the response rate would jump from 2-3% to 20-30% at least.

 

There are some guys who focus in on one girl but I think there are few because it is not very successful. You have to understand how OLD is for a guy vs. a woman....

 

Women get inundated with messages, of which you (as a guy) are only one. The chances of her reading it are slim unless you have movie star looks or say something really clever / witty (the latter is negated if she finds you unattractive). As a guy you can literally send out hundreds of messages and only get a 2% - 3% response rate.

 

Of those who respond, most will fizzle out. You will go on dates with a few of them and most guys struggle to get to a second date. So it becomes a numbers game. Once you experience the rejection you begin to care much less and send out feelers to see if you get a response. Sometimes you even forget sending a girl a message because you've been forced to care a lot less.

 

I've been fairly successful with OLD despite my profile pics looking terrible (every women I met said I looked much better than my pics - really got to address that). I usually have no issues getting a second date and had my weekends mostly booked when I was on OLD. But it was due to the volume of messages I sent.

 

Initially I started trying to develop a rapport with them and it usually fizzled. A poster here pointed out that while I was trying to get to know them and speak on the phone, there were 20 other guys asking them out for a drink. I changed my approach and was much more successful as a result.

 

It's not so much rushing, it's playing by the rules.

[No_Go]

TBH I don't remember anymore. I don't think the last time around I had a guy disappear but I also got my bf pretty fast (maybe 5-7 days after opening the profile), so there was no time to track disappearing men

 

It is something to consider though... I had 'sticky' guys that will not go away like ever (one would reconnect with me every time I was back to OLD between relationships) - maybe these are the people with low options...

 

OP: Did many guys disappear after you tried to have long email exchanges with them? So maybe the ones left were those without options.

[JuneL]

From a woman's perspective I can tell you that out of the say 300 messages I got on OKC in my last round of OLD few years ago, only maybe 10-20 had content in them. The rest were nonsense like 'Hey', 'How was your day', 'I like your pictures', 'Wanna grab a drink' or something generic. No movie star looks or witty profile would make me respond to these and most women I know feel the same way.

 

I think if guys stop being bitter and actually tailor their messages the response rate would jump from 2-3% to 20-30% at least.

 

Actually I personally find it a little fake when I received a "thoughtful" and long first message from some stranger online. For me, the best messages were concise and light and witty.

[No_Go]

Different strokes:) I plan to put enough information in my profile to provoke meaningful conversation (if the dude bothers to read it of course, that's test 1). I personally like to leave the witty banter for much later, which is probably the opposite of what most people go for... Test 2 for compatibility:) And if he manages to tailor a good first date based on our exchange, not something generic, he got me 90%.

 

Actually I personally find it a little fake when I received a "thoughtful" and long first message from some stranger online. For me, the best messages were concise and light and witty.

[Gaeta]

to provoke meaningful conversation .

 

I must ask, what do you consider a meaningful conversation?

 

I can understand having a meaningful conversation with my mother or with my boyfriend but how does one go about having a meaningful conversation with a stranger? What are the subjects discussed?

[No_Go]

Anything that is not flirty/joking around, or comment on my looks or day. Literally anything else - and still guys go for one of the above:)

 

E.g. from the ones that I liked before one guy was telling me about his music, another one about his job, third one about his brothers... I don't really care about the content - more about the form and avoiding flirty comments.

 

I must ask, what do you consider a meaningful conversation?

 

I can understand having a meaningful conversation with my mother or with my boyfriend but how does one go about having a meaningful conversation with a stranger? What are the subjects discussed?

[Gaeta]

Anything that is not flirty/joking around, or comment on my looks or day. Literally anything else - and still guys go for one of the above:)

 

E.g. from the ones that I liked before one guy was telling me about his music, another one about his job, third one about his brothers... I don't really care about the content - more about the form and avoiding flirty comments.

 

To me that sounds like just general topics, not meaningful conversations.

[No_Go]

Well I'm not going to hire the dude for a job - I just want to see how his thoughts are forming. In the end of the day we don't need to be discussing molecular genetics to see are our styles of thinking compatible. I don't really care what he says but how he says it initially. I hope it makes sense.

 

I also want to gauge how closed off someone is. The people like my ex that had troubles being open and discussing their past are just not for me...

 

To me that sounds like just general topics, not meaningful conversations.

[No_Go]

One more question - how to list deal breakers without sounding too demanding?

 

E.g. I don't drink, however I can tolerate if the guy that I'm dating has a drink or two here and there. I can restrict to people that listed that do not drink but that is limiting my search quite a lot, and I'm getting matched to weird spiritual guys, vegans etc. If I include 'social drinkers' - I encountered people that enjoy alcohol weekly (annoying for me) or more often (an impasse). I just don't know how express what I need indirectly in the profile, without sounding too demanding or restricting the group of potential dates too much.

 

Same goes for other traits: e.g. I can't tolerate guys with a big 'gang' of friends, guys that expect me to push them in the relationship, guys that are fiscally irresponsible, guys that are too attached to their parents etc... I somehow want to avoid these types without putting a laundry list of deal breakers in my profile, which will (rightfully) deter many guys.

[Chilli]

l was only on it for a little while back when.

But hell yeah ,l text or chatted on the site for as long as l damn well pleased and believe me in the long run it saved me a wholeeeee lotta hassle.

 

l wasn't interested in meeting just anyone, what's the damn point. And it's uncomfortable and it's a waste of good energy and time, to me anyway.

Saved my self a whole lotta pain in the arse just talking to them a bit instead of rushing off because usually whatever you needed to know would come out with a bit more chit chat and save the hassle of bothering to go any further.

Only bothered meeting 3 out of 30 or 40 and one of those was only because she kept pushing it

Edited July 7, 2017 by Chilli

[lana-banana]

Filter out anyone who drinks more than a few times a year; it's the only way. Your complaint seems to be you don't like the people who identify as non-drinkers, and that's not the app's fault.

 

It's funny that you bring up intelligence as a measurement, because intelligence is a fluid concept that can't easily be measured either (IQ tests are quite biased against people with certain cultural backgrounds). As far as personality goes, people lie, get confused over wording, and don't have fully accurate ideas of their own character. Lots of people are in denial about elements of themselves, or can't think of themselves as an unbiased observer. I don't understand the point. What will it tell you other than you're dating a guy who willing to take a test?

 

I think this is going to be hard for you because you are so inflexible on so many things. At the end of the day you should always be true to yourself, but you can't take it so seriously (or "dead serious" as you say.) Just reading this thread you sound incredibly anxious, rigid, demanding and dogmatic. If you are this uptight about the when thinking about dating, actual dating is going to be a nightmare.

[SevenCity]

One more question - how to list deal breakers without sounding too demanding?

 

E.g. I don't drink, however I can tolerate if the guy that I'm dating has a drink or two here and there. I can restrict to people that listed that do not drink but that is limiting my search quite a lot, and I'm getting matched to weird spiritual guys, vegans etc. If I include 'social drinkers' - I encountered people that enjoy alcohol weekly (annoying for me) or more often (an impasse). I just don't know how express what I need indirectly in the profile, without sounding too demanding or restricting the group of potential dates too much.

 

Same goes for other traits: e.g. I can't tolerate guys with a big 'gang' of friends, guys that expect me to push them in the relationship, guys that are fiscally irresponsible, guys that are too attached to their parents etc... I somehow want to avoid these types without putting a laundry list of deal breakers in my profile, which will (rightfully) deter many guys.

 

Listing "I do not drink" is a good pre-qualifier for guys who drink a lot as they likely would not be interested in someone who doesn't drink. It is going to be hard to find an adult who doesn't drink several times a week as that is part of our culture (I have the same issue - I just gave up and deal with women who drink). I'll be honest, they will likely have a harder time with you not drinking than you dealing with their drinking.

 

It's hard to list anything about not having too many friends or who are close to their family. It makes it come across as you requiring all their attention and they will have to make you their entire life.

 

There is nothing wrong with being laser focused on what you want, but you will have to realize that will SEVERELY limit your chances of finding someone. That said, all you need is one.

 

The other problem is guys will often like what you look like and lie to be what you want them to be just to get in your pants.

 

OLD is a different experience than IRL. Many people become jaded or overwhelmed with the choices always looking for one better. You may find a guy who ticks all your boxes and is perfect on paper but have zero chemistry once you meet.

 

It's great you know what you want, but be prepared to look for it for a LOOOONG time. And even if they tick all the boxes there will be something you don't like about them.

 

Personally, I bypass profiles of women with a laundry list of requirements. Not that I don't fit them, but it tells me she is demanding and likely too much work.

 

Concentrate on positives - "I love it when guys read my profile and ask questions" as opposed to "I won't respond to one word openers". Negativity is the biggest turn off on a woman's profile.

[salparadise]

I just don't get it why it would be more difficult to evaluate personality traits then say physical traits or intelligence. Is it just the deception factor or I'm missing something here? I'm not picking at this, I'm simply not getting it.

 

The MBTI is valid and useful. I have no idea why lana-b is so invested in convincing everyone that it's not. It doesn't guarantee chemistry, compatibility or anything at all. It just gives a general idea about a person's (and your own) personality and the likelihood that you'll be in sync. If you've known or dated people of several types and learn how/what the MBTI assesses, you'll start seeing patterns with in terms of who you tend to sync with and why.

 

It's more than coincidence that you're getting along with the ENFP guy. I know that I like NF women (you and I are the same type). I can go with either on E/I and J/P, but an ST or SF not some much. That's not to say there isn't a ST or SF in the world that I'd get along with, it's just less likely. My last gf was INFJ and we did quite well together (as long as it lasted). I still meet people without knowing their type, and I don't even try to guess unless it seems that we're clicking.

 

It's based on the work of Carl Jung, the Swiss psychiatrist and psychoanalyst who founded analytical psychology. I have a copy of his book "Psychological Types," but it's so dense that it's laborious to read. The MBTI is based on it and really just distills his knowledge down to a simple, effective means of assessing and interpreting and grouping individual personality characteristics. It just is what it is, and it's interesting and useful. It's nuanced, not black and white.

[SwordofFlame]

One more question - how to list deal breakers without sounding too demanding?

 

E.g. I don't drink, however I can tolerate if the guy that I'm dating has a drink or two here and there. I can restrict to people that listed that do not drink but that is limiting my search quite a lot, and I'm getting matched to weird spiritual guys, vegans etc. If I include 'social drinkers' - I encountered people that enjoy alcohol weekly (annoying for me) or more often (an impasse). I just don't know how express what I need indirectly in the profile, without sounding too demanding or restricting the group of potential dates too much.

 

Same goes for other traits: e.g. I can't tolerate guys with a big 'gang' of friends, guys that expect me to push them in the relationship, guys that are fiscally irresponsible, guys that are too attached to their parents etc... I somehow want to avoid these types without putting a laundry list of deal breakers in my profile, which will (rightfully) deter many guys.

 

Just put that you don't drink in your profile and that should be sufficient.

 

For the requirement about them not having a big gang of friends, I think there is some negative personality attribute that you associate with that, what exactly is that attribute?

 

For fiscally responsible, I suppose the type of job one has may tell a little about how fiscally responsible they are or not.

 

For the not too attached with parents attachment, you can say that you're fiercely independent and are looking for the same.

[Lorenza]

One more question - how to list deal breakers without sounding too demanding?

 

E.g. I don't drink, however I can tolerate if the guy that I'm dating has a drink or two here and there. I can restrict to people that listed that do not drink but that is limiting my search quite a lot, and I'm getting matched to weird spiritual guys, vegans etc. If I include 'social drinkers' - I encountered people that enjoy alcohol weekly (annoying for me) or more often (an impasse). I just don't know how express what I need indirectly in the profile, without sounding too demanding or restricting the group of potential dates too much.

 

Same goes for other traits: e.g. I can't tolerate guys with a big 'gang' of friends, guys that expect me to push them in the relationship, guys that are fiscally irresponsible, guys that are too attached to their parents etc... I somehow want to avoid these types without putting a laundry list of deal breakers in my profile, which will (rightfully) deter many guys.

 

I think it's totally ok and not too demanding to write that you don't drink and want to meet guys who don't overindulge in alcohol.

About them not having a gang of friends, I usually specify that I'm looking for people on the more introverted side.

 

Based on your preferences I'd write like this:

Looking for a responsible, independent and rather introverted man who doesn't overly indulge in alcohol (since I don't drink myself) etc etc

Or something like that

[No_Go]

Ugh? Where exactly did you get that I'm anxious, demanding and dogmatic?? Just because I'm interested in different type of men than you :lmao:?

 

I also didn't say I am rejecting people that drink more than few times an year, I just don't like *weekly* drinking people because it is part of a lifestyle that is incompatible with mine.

 

IQ tests, I'm afraid, are pretty accurate regardless of politically correct view that they are not. It stinks but people differ in intelligence, personalities and looks. Why it is ok to refer to fat/thin but not to low IQ/high IQ? It is just another trait.

 

Personality test will tell me are we compatible enough, that's why I have been digging into it.

 

Btw regardless of the 'good wishes' for nightmarish dating, Im pretty confident it will be easy. Boring and annoying but easy. Im not anxious about it, just want to minimize the time spent because I find it tiring and uninspiring. I just need someone good enough to work with, and minimal hassle, it is that simple.

 

Filter out anyone who drinks more than a few times a year; it's the only way. Your complaint seems to be you don't like the people who identify as non-drinkers, and that's not the app's fault.

 

It's funny that you bring up intelligence as a measurement, because intelligence is a fluid concept that can't easily be measured either (IQ tests are quite biased against people with certain cultural backgrounds). As far as personality goes, people lie, get confused over wording, and don't have fully accurate ideas of their own character. Lots of people are in denial about elements of themselves, or can't think of themselves as an unbiased observer. I don't understand the point. What will it tell you other than you're dating a guy who willing to take a test?

 

I think this is going to be hard for you because you are so inflexible on so many things. At the end of the day you should always be true to yourself, but you can't take it so seriously (or "dead serious" as you say.) Just reading this thread you sound incredibly anxious, rigid, demanding and dogmatic. If you are this uptight about the when thinking about dating, actual dating is going to be a nightmare.

[No_Go]

Friends & family stuff I mentioned not to require their undivided attention, but because I'd be unwilling/unable to participate in weekly gatherings with friends & family that some guys expect this from their girlfriends...

 

I like the idea to focus on positives whenever possible, I also don't like guys' profiles that look like laundry lists.

 

Listing "I do not drink" is a good pre-qualifier for guys who drink a lot as they likely would not be interested in someone who doesn't drink. It is going to be hard to find an adult who doesn't drink several times a week as that is part of our culture (I have the same issue - I just gave up and deal with women who drink). I'll be honest, they will likely have a harder time with you not drinking than you dealing with their drinking.

 

It's hard to list anything about not having too many friends or who are close to their family. It makes it come across as you requiring all their attention and they will have to make you their entire life.

 

There is nothing wrong with being laser focused on what you want, but you will have to realize that will SEVERELY limit your chances of finding someone. That said, all you need is one.

 

The other problem is guys will often like what you look like and lie to be what you want them to be just to get in your pants.

 

OLD is a different experience than IRL. Many people become jaded or overwhelmed with the choices always looking for one better. You may find a guy who ticks all your boxes and is perfect on paper but have zero chemistry once you meet.

 

It's great you know what you want, but be prepared to look for it for a LOOOONG time. And even if they tick all the boxes there will be something you don't like about them.

 

Personally, I bypass profiles of women with a laundry list of requirements. Not that I don't fit them, but it tells me she is demanding and likely too much work.

 

Concentrate on positives - "I love it when guys read my profile and ask questions" as opposed to "I won't respond to one word openers". Negativity is the biggest turn off on a woman's profile.

[No_Go]

For drinking 2 rounds ago I encountered an alcoholic that presented himself as 'social drinker' (yeah ... socially drinking 18!!! beers per night)... but it could have just been bad luck.

 

Thanks! That's good advice.

 

For friends: I'm not going to be able to keep up (crowd aversion), and also I generally avoid boyish vibe, I like more mature men.

 

For fiscal responsibility: I'm mainly concerned at how the person spends. One can be a spender regardless of the job... it is kind of hard to say but when I see someone is 'fun loving' and has multiple pictures of being out and about... I usually can predict impulse spender.

 

For parents: I have a special relationship with mine and a guy too close with his family will not be able to understand me well. I also look for maturity.

 

Just put that you don't drink in your profile and that should be sufficient.

 

For the requirement about them not having a big gang of friends, I think there is some negative personality attribute that you associate with that, what exactly is that attribute?

 

For fiscally responsible, I suppose the type of job one has may tell a little about how fiscally responsible they are or not.

 

For the not too attached with parents attachment, you can say that you're fiercely independent and are looking for the same.

[lana-banana]

Wow, that seems a little uncalled for. (Were you really trying to suggest you have higher standards? Jeez.) I wasn't trying to be harsh or unkind, just saying that you seem to be very rigid and obviously anxious about this process (hence all the pages in this thread, and multiple posts about how you hate dating, can't tolerate certain traits, don't want guys looking at tons of profiles at once, can't go on coffee dates, won't meet anyone unless they've written long letters, etc). All I was trying to say is you'll probably have better luck if you relax and be open, because being "dead serious" is needlessly stressful.

 

I agree with the others---saying what you want in a positive manner is always better than saying what you don't want. It's never my intention to hurt anybody's feelings, so I'm out of this thread.

[No_Go]

No worries - understood:) Also sorry if I sounded harsh - I didn't refer to having higher standards, just different type of men (not better or worse).

 

Wow, that seems a little uncalled for. (Were you really trying to suggest you have higher standards? Jeez.) I wasn't trying to be harsh or unkind, just saying that you seem to be very rigid and obviously anxious about this process (hence all the pages in this thread, and multiple posts about how you hate dating, can't tolerate certain traits, don't want guys looking at tons of profiles at once, can't go on coffee dates, won't meet anyone unless they've written long letters, etc). All I was trying to say is you'll probably have better luck if you relax and be open, because being "dead serious" is needlessly stressful.

 

I agree with the others---saying what you want in a positive manner is always better than saying what you don't want. It's never my intention to hurt anybody's feelings, so I'm out of this thread.

[introverted1]

The MBTI is valid and useful. I have no idea why lana-b is so invested in convincing everyone that it's not. It doesn't guarantee chemistry, compatibility or anything at all. It just gives a general idea about a person's (and your own) personality and the likelihood that you'll be in sync. If you've known or dated people of several types and learn how/what the MBTI assesses, you'll start seeing patterns with in terms of who you tend to sync with and why.

 

<snip>

 

It's based on the work of Carl Jung, the Swiss psychiatrist and psychoanalyst who founded analytical psychology. I have a copy of his book "Psychological Types," but it's so dense that it's laborious to read. The MBTI is based on it and really just distills his knowledge down to a simple, effective means of assessing and interpreting and grouping individual personality characteristics. It just is what it is, and it's interesting and useful. It's nuanced, not black and white.

 

Agree.

 

Plus, the true MBTI (the one you have to pay for) is pretty comprehensive and has built-in mechanisms for validating responses/types.

 

I'm still intrigued by the notion of INTJ/ENFP as a match. Don't you find the F to be an illogical thinker? That drives me nuts!

[introverted1]

However, regarding Gaeta's and your's take on OLD - I politely disagree. I just can't connect for the world over coffee or any 'laid-back' type of atmosphere. If the guy takes me out for a wild nature walk - a little more likely to connect The same stands for me for guys that I've met IRL. Unless they take the time for some meaningful correspondence or non-casual conversation, they can be the hottest thing in the world, I'd never notice them.

 

NG, you might be my soulmate! Too bad you are female! :lmao:

[No_Go]

Yeah too bad but you know what? We at least prove that MBTI typing is accurate

 

NG, you might be my soulmate! Too bad you are female! :lmao:

[No_Go]

ENFPs seem to be very aware of emotions so they sense INTJs well and let the INTJs lead logically when they need to.

 

Maybe Salparadise can explain this better:)

 

Agree.

 

Plus, the true MBTI (the one you have to pay for) is pretty comprehensive and has built-in mechanisms for validating responses/types.

 

I'm still intrigued by the notion of INTJ/ENFP as a match. Don't you find the F to be an illogical thinker? That drives me nuts!

[JuneL]

Too bad you don't want to meet too many guys. It's actually pretty easy to screen these traits during your small talk at the first meet. The first meet is not a real date, so it should be minimally physical if you don't feel comfortable.

 

 

One more question - how to list deal breakers without sounding too demanding?

 

E.g. I don't drink, however I can tolerate if the guy that I'm dating has a drink or two here and there. I can restrict to people that listed that do not drink but that is limiting my search quite a lot, and I'm getting matched to weird spiritual guys, vegans etc. If I include 'social drinkers' - I encountered people that enjoy alcohol weekly (annoying for me) or more often (an impasse). I just don't know how express what I need indirectly in the profile, without sounding too demanding or restricting the group of potential dates too much.

 

Same goes for other traits: e.g. I can't tolerate guys with a big 'gang' of friends, guys that expect me to push them in the relationship, guys that are fiscally irresponsible, guys that are too attached to their parents etc... I somehow want to avoid these types without putting a laundry list of deal breakers in my profile, which will (rightfully) deter many guys.