I don't know what's real anymore

[eye of the storm]

Whatsgoingon, cheating doesn't mean he doesn't love you, staying doesn't mean he does.

 

 

I have a good friend in a terrible marriage, he hates going home. She has called all his friends and told them he can't be friends with us anymore because we encourage bad behavior. (I am the only single person in the group, all others are firmly married) But he won't leave. Its too expensive. He doesn't stay because he loves her. He stays because it is what he knows.

 

 

People get in their head that once the ring is on it locks forever. (I was M for 18+ years and thought the same thing) No matter what, the marriage was it. If you are married you are in love and the marriage is sacred. But its not. We sometimes chose the wrong person. We chose someone that willingly knowingly uncaringly hurts us. You do not have to stay tied to someone that does that to you.

 

 

You keep asking why he stays if he isn't committed. Men stay married for many reasons.

 

 

I wasted a lot of money in therapy trying to figure out why my xH did what he did. I didn't start to heal until I understood that why he did what he did was not my burden, not mine to understand. It was his. I needed to spend time on why I accepted it, why I thought it was ok, why I wouldn't stand up for myself. Me, my choices, my reasons, my actions. It allowed me to heal, to grow, and to learn. It is a journey.

[whichwayisup]

He did mean it, in the heat of the moment. The thing he got caught up in was the feelings an affair brings out. I don't think it's her it's more about him and his ego, how she made him feel. Like a King to be desired and wanted by someone else. For some it's a powerful feeling and nothing else matters but when reality hits (aka a DDAY) everything changes which is why an OW/OM is thrown under the bus. Everything is based on selfish feelings in an affair and there's no history or glue to hold/bind them together. Hope this makes sense to you.

 

Your H is messed up and broken so I hope he goes for counseling. If he truly is remorseful and is showing you not only in words but in actions he's worthy of a second chance, then give to him. Let his actions prove to you that he some day can be trustworthy again. Make sure he understands that if the A continues and there's more side talk going on with the exOW that you are done and filing for D. That you won't tolerate that cheating behavior anymore. He'll be out and can pack his bags and go live with the OW.

[whichwayisup]

You're right. It's his responsibility. Unfortunately he hasn't done a good job of that in the past so that's why I'm worried. When he knew I'd be seeing the texts, he actually pretended to be me and told her "leave my husband alone". I later found out he called her from his work phone and told her that I had linked our accounts and was reading his texts. That's a lot of effort for another woman. I'm worried that he really does love her and will eventually leave me for her. Yes he is here now but we have so many issues to work out that he may bail. Especially if this girl is ready and wiling to welcome him back with arms (legs) wide open.

 

When lies and hiding/denying happens, the more shi.t hits the fan as you can see. He dug himself a hole and more or less buried himself. She is responsible for her part in the A, she is NOT a victim since she knew he was married (and didn't care) but at the same time he led her on, lied to her and gave her hope. Fed her feelings too.

 

Hey if he wants to go, let him go. DO NOT fight for someone who wants someone else. You deserve better.

[whatsgoingon83]

I went through his deleted email folder while he was in the shower. There were a few emails from her and it looks like theyve seen each other recently. He hasn't responded to the emails though except to say "no i can't see you". But one email read as if they had talked/been with each other and this was recent. Judging by the tone of the emails she has sent several and he just forgot to delete these.

 

I've asked him several times if she has contacted him or seen him and he's said NO. That it's over. Why wouldn't he just tell me that she's emailed him?? Why isn't she blocked? The moment he got even one email he should have blocked her email. I don't know what to do. Should I confront? What's that going to accomplish? Has anyone been here before?! Why won't he quit her and tell her he doesn't want her?

[elaine567]

He doesn't want to block her as he would have done if that was what he wanted to do. and he doesn't tell he doesn't want her, as he probably does want her.

Sorry, but what he tells you and what he tells her are two different things, he is still lying to you.

 

If you confront it will not stop him, he will just be more careful with his emails.

[whatsgoingon83]

When lies and hiding/denying happens, the more shi.t hits the fan as you can see. He dug himself a hole and more or less buried himself. She is responsible for her part in the A, she is NOT a victim since she knew he was married (and didn't care) but at the same time he led her on, lied to her and gave her hope. Fed her feelings too.

 

Hey if he wants to go, let him go. DO NOT fight for someone who wants someone else. You deserve better.

I did tell him to go if he wanted. That I wouldn't hold him back but I was willing to work on the marriage if he was and make changes. I told him to file and I wouldn't fight it. He chose to not leave. He said he loved me and would fight with me. I feel that if I said "let's divorce" he wouldn't put up much of a fight. It's as if he wants me to make the big decisions and I'm not willing to do that. He can go if he wants but I'm not leaving him. I can't.

[elaine567]

He is not filing because he is happy where he is, I guess he wants to have his cake and eat it too.

[whatsgoingon83]

He is not filing because he is happy where he is, I guess he wants to have his cake and eat it too.

It doesn't make sense to me at all. If he's with me and doesn't want to divorce then why keep her around? I'm his wife. I don't want him talking to her. I've told him this and he knows it. I don't know how to fix this. I don't know how to keep her away from him. I can't believe this is happening to us. Why not at least tell me that she is contacting him? His only response to her said "no i can't see you. Stop" but then another email talks about what happened "yesterday".

[Birdies]

I went through his deleted email folder while he was in the shower. There were a few emails from her and it looks like theyve seen each other recently. He hasn't responded to the emails though except to say "no i can't see you". But one email read as if they had talked/been with each other and this was recent. Judging by the tone of the emails she has sent several and he just forgot to delete these.

 

I've asked him several times if she has contacted him or seen him and he's said NO. That it's over. Why wouldn't he just tell me that she's emailed him?? Why isn't she blocked? The moment he got even one email he should have blocked her email. I don't know what to do. Should I confront? What's that going to accomplish? Has anyone been here before?! Why won't he quit her and tell her he doesn't want her?

 

This is his one chance to put 100% into you and 0% into her, and he's blowing it. He's still lying to you and carrying on with her. Why? Because he thinks he can still have both women because you told him you don't want to divorce.

 

I would go see a lawyer, file for divorce without telling him, and have him served at work. Shake him up. Show him that he can't take you for granted. Make him actually choose. Hopefully he realizes what an a$s he's been and throws himself into reconciliation. Maybe he won't. But at least you'll know where you two stand, and you won't have to continue to deal with your husband having a girlfriend and lying to you about it.

 

Ps, I'm saying this as a woman who had an affair outside my marriage. The cheater mindset is hard to shake until you realize what you're about to lose. He thinks he can still have you both, because he's still taking you for granted. Only YOU can change that!

[whichwayisup]

I did tell him to go if he wanted. That I wouldn't hold him back but I was willing to work on the marriage if he was and make changes. I told him to file and I wouldn't fight it. He chose to not leave. He said he loved me and would fight with me. I feel that if I said "let's divorce" he wouldn't put up much of a fight. It's as if he wants me to make the big decisions and I'm not willing to do that. He can go if he wants but I'm not leaving him. I can't.

 

It doesn't make sense to me at all. If he's with me and doesn't want to divorce then why keep her around? I'm his wife. I don't want him talking to her. I've told him this and he knows it. I don't know how to fix this. I don't know how to keep her away from him. I can't believe this is happening to us. Why not at least tell me that she is contacting him? His only response to her said "no i can't see you. Stop" but then another email talks about what happened "yesterday".

 

Look, as long as he's still emailing or talking to her, there's no point in trying to save your marriage. The deal is, he ends with her (by phone with you there on speaker phone) and they go NC or he can move out and go be with her. He can't stay married to you and live with you while carrying on with her. WTF, how selfish is that? His words don't match his actions. He hasn't attempted to block her or go NC. He is making it seem like it's over but it's not.

 

I know you love him and don't want to lose him and your marriage but if you don't take control and put your foot down now he's going to do as he pleases regardless of your precious heart.

[HereNorThere]

To get it, you really have to think about the psychology of an OW. No normal, rational, emotionally stable single woman is going to settle for a married sleazeball like your husband. These chicks have more issues than Time magazine. Most are very entitled, spoiled, emotionally stunted, broken people who aren't used to being told no. I'm sure he is very aware of this as well.

 

So he can keep her around as a part time sex toy and ego boost, but he knows better then to count her being there for him when the time comes. No man trust a woman with that level of mental illness. She's good for some things (sex, listening to him whine about you, etc) but he's not going to actually trust her with important stuff.

 

I'm sure he "loves" both of you, but ultimately he loves himself. If she goes on tinder, hooks up with Chad™ and he brings you home a case of HPV that turns into fatal cervical cancer, he's okay with that. The flip side is also true, if you happen to catch a yeast infection, cold sore, whatever, he doesn't mind passing onto her. I'm sure you're both lied to, manipulated, etc. And when he gets the chance, he'll introduce his next victim's vaginal flora into your big toxic mess of bodily fluids and heartache (if he hasn't already.)

 

In the end, the only way you win the game with someone like this is by not playing. Trust me, no woman walks away from this piece of human garbage feeling satisfied. If you make it out without VD or getting ran over by another one of his bipolar side chicks, consider yourself lucky. That's about as good as it gets with someone like this.

[lostgirl87]

Ummm I don't know how accurate it is that OW have a mental illness. Are there some loonies out there? Absolutely. But your focus should be your H. Not the OW. And it doesn't sound like your H is that turned off by the OW. If he didn't feel something for her, he would have cut her off for good a long time ago. Especially if she spoke to you.

 

I'm an OW (former OW?) and all I can say is that the OW can only go as far as the MM allows her to go. I've read stories where the MM flat out told the OW that he has no feelings for her, that it's over and they will never speak again and that he only wants his wife. In those situations, i can't imagine that an OW would dare reach out to MM again. I know i wouldn't- how embarrassing! But it doesn't sound like your H has done this. He is still, at the minimum, allowing her attempts at communication to reach him and he's reading the emails, apparently. If it's true that they've seen each other, he's a willing participant. If he didn't want to, he'd tell her or at least tell you that OW is going crazy and stalking or harassing him. But he's not doing that. He's actually protecting her in a way.

 

Does your H love this OW? I don't know. I see many similarities between your story and mine and at least in my case, I don't doubt that MM loves me. He's never told me he doesn't love me or that he wants nothing to do with me. Believe me if he did, I wouldn't reach out. You can read my story to get an understanding of what these MM say to OW if you'd like. But it sounds like you already have an uphill battle when it comes to saving your marriage so that may do more harm than good.

 

I do believe that it's a good sign that your H stayed with you when you were willing to grant him a divorce. However that could also mean that he doesn't want to be the bad guy who cheated and left his wife when she was willing to forgive him and work it out. I don't know what it means but I agree that physically being present isn't enough. Especially if he is still getting his dose of the OW by allowing her to reach out or by seeing her. I really am sorry you're going through this. Reading these stories allow me to see how I was complicit in hurting someone else. But as others have stated, the OW likely doesn't care how you're feeling. I'm not proud of it but I know I didn't consider MM's wife that much.

 

I do wish you luck and all the best.

[whatsgoingon83]

I asked him again if there had been any contact from her and he said no. He was pretty agitated and frustrated with me for constantly asking. Hm I wonder why I have to constantly ask? And he's still lying.

 

I told him to tell her it's over so that I could hear it and he said that wasn't necessary and would only bring her back into our lives. He said that he's already told her it's over and showed me the texts (this is true) but there was contact after that so doesn't that make it void? He won't tell her again. I haven't said anything about the emails because I don't want him to know that I know yet. I will check again in a few days and see if the contact continues. At that point I will figure out what to do about it.

 

Thank you for the advice. As far as filing for divorce I'm not prepared to do that. I said to him that he could file/pay for the divorce and I'll agree. I originally told him I wanted to divorce and he was fine with it and understood why I felt that way. We talked about splitting our stuff and he said I could keep everything. That's when he contacted her again and told her we were divorcing. If i divorce him, he won't do anything to keep it from going through. All it would do is guarantee that he'll go with her and I'm not ready to give up on our marriage.

[niji]

I think you refuse to understand one thing: as long as he knows you're not gonna leave, he's not going to quit her. You're banking on ONE thing: that you think he'll quit because he loves you and wants to save the marriage, right? Then why do you think there are many young people who stay at home doing nothing while their parents support them beyond their 18, 21, or even 30th year? Do you think it's because they don't love their parents? Or because their parents allow it to happen, and there's nothing in it for them to change?

 

Look at it this way. What's your husband's penalty for not quitting? You leaving? Well he knows you're not leaving, you made that clear. Her leaving? Oh well, he didn't vow to be with her his whole life, he'll just find another chick later. So he has ZERO penalty for keeping both women. NONE.

 

If my parents don't kick me out of the house even if I'm a sleazy 30 year old, why should I work? Love? If I was motivated by love I wouldn't have leeched off them in the first place.

 

Same with your husband. If he was motivated by love, he wouldn't have had an affair. For these people, they are only motivated by fear and respect. And let me tell you, at this point you've got none.

 

If I was your husband, there's nothing that makes me have to quit her. You'll always be around, and she can leave when she chooses to. But I'm not gonna do it. It's too hard, I'm just gonna enjoy both when I still have the chance. When she's gone you'll still be there. And I have to do absolutely nothing, I'll still have you. It's amazing!

Edited June 25, 2017 by niji

[freengreen]

He stays because you're a sure thing. He has no idea what will happen with the other girl, but he knows for certain you'll put up with him.

 

So he gets to sleep with her and you get to put up with his crap. From a selfish perspective, it's not a bad deal for him. Sure, he has to deal with you getting mad from time to time, but he knows you're all bark and no bite.

 

Truth

 

He has got zero respect for you.

[whichwayisup]

You can fight for your marriage and in 3 to 6 months you'll be where you are now but much worse. Hurting, not trusting him, crying and wondering if he loves you and if he is going to continue cheating. I get that you're not ready to pull the plug on your marriage, maybe in a sense of divorce but you HAVE to kick him out of the house. You can't tolerate this behavior from him! He is having his cake and eating too.

 

If he wasn't still contacting her then he would have no issues with you checking up on him or asking him. He'd be remorseful not angry at you. He wouldn't be frustrated with you, he'd show you compassion and love.

[Birdies]

Filing for divorce isn't giving up on your marriage. It takes months to get finalized and can be reversed at ANY time. Filing for divorce and giving your husband a list of what he must do if he doesn't want to divorce, is making your husband choose whether or not HE continues to give up on your marriage. He won't stop having his cake and eating it too until you force him to choose. Obviously the technique you've been using doesn't work. Why not try it the way that DOES work?

 

It's sad that you would rather be married to a man with a girlfriend than face the possibility of not being married. I don't mean that in a mean way. Truly, I'm very sad for you and I hope you can realize that putting yourself first is what is important. All this checking up on him while he continues to lie to you is literally going to make yourself crazy.

[elaine567]

Have you had an std test yet?

YOU are a young woman you cannot take a risk with your fertility.

 

And btw DO NOT get pregnant by this guy.

Hard enough getting a divorce, 10 000X worse with a new born.

 

Time to start getting your finances in order and see a lawyer about your rights. Any money in joint accounts? If so it may not be a big issue if it is only a small "bill paying amount", but if you have amassed bigger sums in savings accounts for instance then he could clear them in an instant, leaving you with nothing. Fighting in court to get the money back may not be worth it, or it could take months and years to recover it. Protect yourself here.

YOU cannot sit back like a dummy, whilst he may even now be squirrelling away money for his "new" life.

Think clever.

[whatsgoingon83]

I've been pretty distant and quiet with him since yesterday after asking him if there had been any further contact. Today he told me that she did go see him and that he told her it was over and that she can't be showing up anymore and that he has nothing to say to her. He said this was a couple weeks ago but the emails had a completely different tone and were pretty recent; not from a couple weeks ago. I asked again if other than this one time had there been any other contact and he said no. More lies.

 

We are going to counseling. He isn't initiating contact with her- she's the one chasing him so I want to say that he wants our marriage to work. But then I wonder why not tell me sooner that she went to go see him? He said he didn't tell me because he didn't want to upset me or make things worse. Why not tell me that she constantly emails him? Why is she not blocked on that account? I haven't said anything about that yet because I want to see how far this goes.

 

No i haven't been tested for STDs yet. I'll do that at my next appointment. I also have no plans to get pregnant. To be honest, we've actually decided we don't want kids. He's always been pretty adamant that he doesn't want kids. I was open to having children but don't care too much one way or the other. When people have asked us about kids he always jumps up and says that we don't want kids. One of the texts I saw from her where they discussed marriage and what their wedding will be like, they also talked about babies and she said she promised she wouldn't get fat and he responded 'lol thanks. Can't be going through that again!' probably referring to me and my weight that I know he has a problem with. He said he didn't mean that and it was just talk. He tells me I'm beautiful and sexy and that he loves me but after reading that and knowing that he told her he wasn't attracted to me, I don't even respond to that. It doesn't feel genuine.

 

My mind is all over the place. I'm trying to consolidate the man I've known for all these years with the man he has shown himself to be. It doesn't feel real. In counseling we talk about our pre-existing issues and he has reiterated plenty of times that he wants to be here with me. I feel like I'm going crazy. One minute I feel one way and the next I feel the complete opposite. It's barely been 2 months since I found out about the affair. A lot has happened in a short amount of time. As much as I don't want to divorce, I know that i can't continue this way. I'm hoping that with time, things will make more sense and I'll know what to do.

 

We don't have any assets at all. I make more money than he does, we were renting for a while and are now staying with family. We've talked about buying a home and originally it was going to be in his name only. Now he wants the house in both of our names. We do have a joint account but it's only for bills. We don't have savings and money/spending has been a point of contention for us. If he wants the house in both our names, then that also makes me believe that he doesn't want to leave. Maybe? I don't know anymore. Obviously buying a home isn't happening right now but I don't know how much longer we can last staying with family. As previously stated, everything right now is a mess.

[lostgirl87]

Omg. Bless your heart! I am almost at a loss for words.

 

I do think that this is pretty fresh for you and it's definitely information overload. You don't have to decide anything now b/c this is a big life decision but please don't be willfully blind. You're obviously not ready to ask him to leave or to be separated from him. To me it seems like you're in survival mode- just trying to stay married and hoping that everything else will fall into place eventually. But from reading stories on here, I don't think reconciliation really works that way.

 

I don't have any advice b/c I've never been in your position. If anything I've contributed to putting someone in your position I really am sorry this is all happening. I understand you want to forgive the affair but y'all have some pretty big underlying problems that also need to be resolved. You're not at fault for the affair. My MM's wife apparently had a similar reaction to yours. Maybe your H is telling the truth that he told her to stop and she's refusing to accept it. What bothers me about that is that if he wanted her to go away that badly, wouldn't he be more stern and definite? This email that you read- is it an account that you know existed? Did he not give you all his passwords?

 

There are a lot of problems here and I really do hope you clear your head enough to see what's really going on and to decide if you really want to be married to a man like this or if you're just trying to stay married so she can't have him. Im only saying that bc based on your posts, there's a lot of focus on the OW and wanting To blame her so I can't help but wonder if you're competing with her on some level. I hope that doesn't offend you bc I honestly don't mean it that way.

 

I'm sure it's scary to imagine him out of your life but it has to be worse to live your life constantly wondering what's really going on. Wishing you all the best!

[niji]

You're right, lostgirl87. It takes two to tango. I've never been in either position, but it's common sense in all relationships that nobody can "force" themselves on anyone else. It's just lies people like to use when they have to blame someone. The husband may not be initiating contact, but he's not invested enough in his marriage to say no. One just has to wonder, even if this OW goes away, another one will come right along.

[lostgirl87]

Yup. Or if this OW goes away long enough, her H may even start reaching back out to her. He hasn't been able to quit her so far- what's to say he ever will?

[whatsgoingon83]

I didn't go to work because I simply couldn't get up. I told my husband I didn't feel well so I wasn't going to work.

 

I can't stop thinking about the emails I found. I looked again while he was in the shower this morning and everything has been deleted--even the ones I saw. How can I gain control of this situation without kicking him out or filing for divorce? Is there a way?

 

I could get past this if I didn't feel like he has genuine feelings for her. That's the part that terrifies me to my very core. How can I fix my marriage if his heart is elsewhere? When I ask him he says he loves me. That she didn't mean anything. How can she not mean anything after the way they spoke to each other? The fact that he saw her and spoke to her so many times after I found out about the affair? How is that NOTHING?

[Arieswoman]

whatsgingon,

 

You ask;

 

How can I gain control of this situation without kicking him out or filing for divorce? Is there a way?

 

No.

 

As long as you allow him to have his cake and eat it he will continue to do so.

 

You have allowed him to continue with his behaviour without any consequences, so there is no motivation for him to stop.

 

Please take the advice of all those who have advised you to sue for divorce and just do it.

[S2B]

Swift and harsh consequences are what's needed.

 

Most people don't change unless they get VERY uncomfortable. It's up to you to make him uncomfortable! Pack his bag and change the locks! File for divorce so he's scared out of his mind!

 

Stick to your guns and see if he starts changing enough to understand he is NOT allowed to treat you that way and expect things to remain the same.

 

You've got work to do immediately! Get busy taking charge of YOUR future!