When you like what you cant have?

[normal person]

The bold is bogus and someone with your learned background knows that full well. There are millions of people who tried things and never succeeded at them, that a reality not matter how you try and paint it otherwise. Its reality.

 

There's a world of difference between trying to be a pro athlete and not making it, and trying to have some fun dating people and not getting it. Only a handful of people become pro athletes. The overwhelming majority of people figure out relationships at some point.

 

Really, funny I haven't met ANYONE who has to compromise anything to date,

 

Tell that to anyone in the gym who didn't feel like going, but went anyways. The entire fashion industry is predicated on selling people clothes to look more attractive in. If people felt more attractive in sweatpants, they'd wear sweatpants everywhere because they're much more comfortable. People wear uncomfortable clothes to look more attractive or appealing to enhance their lives. People compromise their time and energy to work good jobs to be acquire more resources to be more attractive. People go to the gym to be more attractive, literally often just to look better naked. Shy people eventually grow tired of being shy and stick their neck out.

 

If no one compromised anything they wanted to do, they'd all be unemployed, sitting on a couch, watching tv, eating horrible food. People want more. They compromise those desires and fight through school, work, the gym, a a predilection, uncomfortable situations, etc to get something greater. Stop saying no one compromises anything. Successes everywhere throughout the planet are predicated on people making compromises with their time and energy to get things they desire.

 

they rock up flirt, charm, take them to a club, make them laugh, have a few drinks, introduce to them to their fun friends and we all know what happens next. I don't see much compromise if you enjoy those activities, expecting someone like me to thrive there is like asking a polar bear to suntan in Bora Bora.

 

WHO CARES if you don't enjoy it? It's irrelevant. That's something you may need to compromise if you want the desired result. Just because someone else likes it and you don't doesn't make a difference. You still have to do it. Just because someone is born rich and and you were born poor doesn't mean you don't have to work to feed yourself. Whatever is going on with other people doesn't matter.

 

How is one supposed to learn when nobody ever bothers tell you what you do wrong.

 

Trial and error. Learn. I said go hang out with those models, listen, and learn about things they like and don't like. Absorb information. You thought it would be a futile exercise and didn't go.

 

You can criticise me for apparently wasting my life and sure I live with that, each and every time when I have to do something on my own, such as eat out on my own.

 

I'm not criticizing you, I'm just telling you things you should hear to improve your situation. You just don't like them.

[MonkeyLogic]

I am just not getting the numbers and maybe a lot of this is time, I simply don't have masses of time, I work long days so if I am going to go out with someone I'd prefer there to be some sort of communication, some sense ok she is different and I at least find her vaguely attractive.

 

I totally understand this sentiment. But time is relative. You should invest your time in things that are truly important. And finding a meaningful relationship is important. And I agree with you - do not go on dates with anybody you find unattractive. A complete waste of time all around...

 

Work and the various hobbies I have are my retreat, lot of the time the latter fills some of the lonely void and I have managed to manufacture a completely artificial situation whereby I seldom go to those interest club events alone, roped in someone I like and she "works" taking photographs of the event which I then use for post event publication. She is probably as close as I have to a "girlfriend" and I get to enjoy some of the nice feeling that comes with that.

 

So these are coping mechanisms and we all have them. You are distracting yourself from your loneliness and not feeling connected to someone. Very (very!!) understandable. But coping mechanisms are basically short term gain for long term pain. In the moment you feel better, but you never actually get what you really want. A real connection with someone long term.

 

Logically I am starting to ask myself if its all really worth it. Every experience just seems to get worse not better.

 

Yup. Another coping mechanism. Otherwise known as - I'm afraid of being rejected. Or not being good enough. Therefore if I just give up, and not care, then I won't have those fears anymore.

 

Trust me. It won't work.

 

 

The ironic thing is on perhaps 3 occasions I have been able to go out with someone I really liked so I know how good it can be but the problem here is benchmarks have been set and inevitably most of what came afterward has been very underwhelming.

 

Again, most people we meet won't be compatible. The fact that you've had a few occasions meeting people you're interested in is really great though! You know there are people out there that you are attracted to! So just a numbers game getting to the relationship stage....date more people!

 

 

I have had some decent opportunities in the mid early 20's but I could never make anything of them because I didn't and still don't know how.

 

We're trying to show you how. Genuinely and honestly and with the best of intentions. Follow my advice. Numbers. Date a lot of people. Go in with little expectations because you KNOW most people won't be compatible. So date a lot. Invest the time and effort in it. It will be worth it.

 

 

Its just easier and more rewarding to focus on things I can really improve at, one where sure its not easy but I can measure progress, I don't find dating rewarding at all or particularly fun. The great experiences do keep me looking for more like them but the longer nothing happens the more disillusioned I become.

 

I really do understand where you're coming from. Truly. And it probably is easier. But nothing good ever came out of taking the easy way out. You'll have to do some hard work to get what you want. Are you willing to do it?

[ZA Dater]

Another thing, get out of that older crowd, they are doing nothing for you dating wise, apart from giving you the mentality of someone who is 63 not 33...

Try to get interested in something with a younger audience and ditch the oldies...

 

They are not that much older than me. Besides its a club I run and inevitably to belong to this club you need to have attained a level of success most younger people do not have.

[ZA Dater]

Oops pressed enter too soon. I wanted to add I don't think he gives it time for chemistry to grow. He has a idea of the very specific type he wants and if she doesn't meet it within the first date she is out the doe'

 

I respect your view points and opinions. I don't want to sound offish, its not my intention but while I agree with you, why is it this never applies to people who reject me after one date? I have been quite happy in the past within reason to give people the benefit of the doubt but have never been given the same in return.

 

 

PS: I don't drink coffee so doing coffee dates just brings another step of awkwardness I would rather avoid. I have done them in the past.

[ZA Dater]

There's a world of difference between trying to be a pro athlete and not making it, and trying to have some fun dating people and not getting it. Only a handful of people become pro athletes. The overwhelming majority of people figure out relationships at some point.

 

 

 

Tell that to anyone in the gym who didn't feel like going, but went anyways. The entire fashion industry is predicated on selling people clothes to look more attractive in. If people felt more attractive in sweatpants, they'd wear sweatpants everywhere because they're much more comfortable. People wear uncomfortable clothes to look more attractive or appealing to enhance their lives. People compromise their time and energy to work good jobs to be acquire more resources to be more attractive. People go to the gym to be more attractive, literally often just to look better naked. Shy people eventually grow tired of being shy and stick their neck out.

 

If no one compromised anything they wanted to do, they'd all be unemployed, sitting on a couch, watching tv, eating horrible food. People want more. They compromise those desires and fight through school, work, the gym, a a predilection, uncomfortable situations, etc to get something greater. Stop saying no one compromises anything. Successes everywhere throughout the planet are predicated on people making compromises with their time and energy to get things they desire.

 

 

 

WHO CARES if you don't enjoy it? It's irrelevant. That's something you may need to compromise if you want the desired result. Just because someone else likes it and you don't doesn't make a difference. You still have to do it. Just because someone is born rich and and you were born poor doesn't mean you don't have to work to feed yourself. Whatever is going on with other people doesn't matter.

 

 

 

Trial and error. Learn. I said go hang out with those models, listen, and learn about things they like and don't like. Absorb information. You thought it would be a futile exercise and didn't go.

 

 

 

I'm not criticizing you, I'm just telling you things you should hear to improve your situation. You just don't like them.

 

No I don't have to do anything at all. I point blank refuse to do thing I do not like in the hope I meet someone I may like. You wont agree but if I am going to be lonely I'd rather do activities I enjoy rather than ones which make me feel ever worse, like standing around in bars and clubs. For a loooooong time I did "go there you might meet someone thing and I never did, probably the only thing I did gain was inspiration to write a fictional novel and a greater understanding of "buying".

 

 

Go out with the models, sure and get treated like some spare part, again no thanks or some pity party. "Oh this is ABC, he cant get a date", that has actually happened to me on more than one occasion.

[ZA Dater]

I totally understand this sentiment. But time is relative. You should invest your time in things that are truly important. And finding a meaningful relationship is important. And I agree with you - do not go on dates with anybody you find unattractive. A complete waste of time all around...

 

 

 

So these are coping mechanisms and we all have them. You are distracting yourself from your loneliness and not feeling connected to someone. Very (very!!) understandable. But coping mechanisms are basically short term gain for long term pain. In the moment you feel better, but you never actually get what you really want. A real connection with someone long term.

 

 

 

Yup. Another coping mechanism. Otherwise known as - I'm afraid of being rejected. Or not being good enough. Therefore if I just give up, and not care, then I won't have those fears anymore.

 

Trust me. It won't work.

 

 

 

 

Again, most people we meet won't be compatible. The fact that you've had a few occasions meeting people you're interested in is really great though! You know there are people out there that you are attracted to! So just a numbers game getting to the relationship stage....date more people!

 

 

 

 

We're trying to show you how. Genuinely and honestly and with the best of intentions. Follow my advice. Numbers. Date a lot of people. Go in with little expectations because you KNOW most people won't be compatible. So date a lot. Invest the time and effort in it. It will be worth it.

 

 

 

 

I really do understand where you're coming from. Truly. And it probably is easier. But nothing good ever came out of taking the easy way out. You'll have to do some hard work to get what you want. Are you willing to do it?

 

Here is a question for you.

 

 

Do you totally discount past benchmarks when doing the number thing, I still have no idea how to get any sort of numbers as nobody on OKcupid looks remotely appealing.

 

 

Its incredibly hard to sit down and realise within 30 minutes the person isn't going to offer any sort of intellectual challenge, this is my other problem its either go for

 

 

1: Looks

2: Intellect

 

 

I have given up trying to find both in the same person, its practically impossible and those who do have it aren't single.

 

 

So I go out with someone as has happened in the past, not really attractive to me but ok lets see maybe the personality will win me over, which never happens. Ok so I chase physical attraction, that's even harder to find on any platform barring Tinder but even then those I like don't match with me.

 

 

Honestly I think the real problem I have is I have spent time around some really nice, non single people who live interesting lives and maybe I have taken that as the norm, perhaps people don't genuinely care where the Bahamas is or the politics in Europe, perhaps they genuinely don't have ambition. Maybe I am just totally wrong and unrealistic.

 

 

I will say this, its great to sit down with someone who does give me a challenge which is why I am not totally adverse to the often criticised friend zone because at least with that I get something.

[GemmaUK]

PS: I don't drink coffee so doing coffee dates just brings another step of awkwardness I would rather avoid. I have done them in the past.

 

Maybe it's down to location but coffee shops in the UK sell other drinks aside from coffee. Places like that are coffee based but don't want to alienate people who don't drink coffee either.

Maybe try to find a coffee shop where they also sell other drinks?

[ZA Dater]

Maybe it's down to location but coffee shops in the UK sell other drinks aside from coffee. Places like that are coffee based but don't want to alienate people who don't drink coffee either.

Maybe try to find a coffee shop where they also sell other drinks?

 

The ones here do to but seeing as I only drink water I then need to explain why I don't drink anything else, granted I usually have to do this at dinners too.

 

 

Part of the reason for dinners is it I generally never have time during the day for coffee dates.

[elaine567]

Is there a real reason you will not drink anything else but water?

 

There is nothing wrong with drinking water but it seems like just another obstacle you are putting in your own way to increase the awkwardness factor and make dating "impossible".

 

You know full well that you can go to a coffee bar and order anything you like to drink, so why would it be awkward?

YOU are a thirty three your old man, you are perfectly entitled to make your own choices so who cares what other people think? There is NO need for you to be awkward or apologetic or explain anything really to your date, it is so trivial it doesn't really matter.

I can't see any woman being put out because her date doesn't drink coffee. Plenty people are seriously into fitness and eating healthy, so water is a perfectly acceptable drink.

[ZA Dater]

Is there a real reason you will not drink anything else but water?

 

There is nothing wrong with drinking water but it seems like just another obstacle you are putting in your own way to increase the awkwardness factor and make dating "impossible".

 

You know full well that you can go to a coffee bar and order anything you like to drink, so why would it be awkward?

YOU are a thirty three your old man, you are perfectly entitled to make your own choices so who cares what other people think? There is NO need for you to be awkward or apologetic or explain anything really to your date, it is so trivial it doesn't really matter.

I can't see any woman being put out because her date doesn't drink coffee. Plenty people are seriously into fitness and eating healthy, so water is a perfectly acceptable drink.

 

I just prefer water, its something I have had throughout my whole life. People fundamentally find it odd and each time I comes up on a date I am questioned "why, why don't you drink coffee or alcohol".

 

 

The coffee date is often just ruled out because I don't have the time for daytime dates.

[littleblackheart]

OP, are you hung up on special someone that you can't have?

[ZA Dater]

OP, are you hung up on special someone that you can't have?

 

Not a specific person but an entire category of person I guess. Maybe its just every time I go on these dates I never seem to like the person that much, maybe its because nobody I do like has ever liked me.

 

 

Who knows but it just difficult in general to

 

 

1: Find someone I like

2: Hope they like me too.

[littleblackheart]

Not a specific person but an entire category of person I guess. Maybe its just every time I go on these dates I never seem to like the person that much, maybe its because nobody I do like has ever liked me.

 

 

Who knows but it just difficult in general to

 

 

1: Find someone I like

2: Hope they like me too.

 

I'm really sorry but there has got to be more to it than this. I don't know your history and I'm conscious that we are not just the sum of our posts here on LS so I've avoided reading all your other threads, but getting cues from other posters on this thread, I feel like something is missing. If not, your dating woes don't appear to be drastically different to other single people your age.

 

It's just the continuous barrage of excuses you have given to nearly all the advice offered to you on this thread suggests that your mind and heart are not actually truly open to a relationship, for one reason or another.

 

It reads to me like you are suffering from unrequited love with a particular someone and you are finding it very difficult to move on?

Edited July 26, 2017 by littleblackheart

[normal person]

No I don't have to do anything at all.

 

You don't "have" to do anything. But if you want any reasonable chance of success with women (and judging by your multitude of threads on here complaining about your lack of success, you absolutely do, so stop pretending otherwise), there are compromises and sacrifices you "should" make.

 

 

I point blank refuse to do thing I do not like in the hope I meet someone I may like.

 

This has been well documented. How's it worked out for you so far?

 

What would you say to people who said the following?

 

"I didn't like having to go to school -- can't I just be smart already?"

"I don't want to get that painful medical procedure -- can't I just be healthy already?"

"I don't like having to go to the gym -- can't I just be ripped already?"

"I don't like having to work for money -- can't I just be rich already?"

"I don't like having to engage in a complex cultural mating dance to get women -- can't they just like me already?"

 

If you have any sense, you'd say "stop acting like a child and deal with it."

 

Often the most difficult things are the ones most worth doing. I can't think of any other way to advance your life and get what you want more than that. And you're outright refusing to do it. There should be no surprise that you don't have success.

 

If you aren't willing to do what's necessary, then stop complaining.

 

You wont agree but if I am going to be lonely I'd rather do activities I enjoy rather than ones which make me feel ever worse, like standing around in bars and clubs.

 

I didn't say "be lonely," I suggested you do things to get you on a path to not be lonely. If you refuse to deal with the momentary discomfort of things you don't like or are scared of long enough to conquer them, you're probably never going to get what you want. It's very simple. The people who can withstand that discomfort long enough to learn from it and adapt are out there right now getting girls you might've had otherwise. They paid the price for them, you refused to pay the price. This is your fate.

 

The US Marines have an adage: Pain is weakness leaving the body. You refuse to endure enough pain to get the things you want, and therefore remain weak. The strong will easily conquer the weak in the fight for the desirable things. What will it take for you to summon the strength to face discomfort? Do you just not have genes? Are you capable of evolving and becoming more than what you previously thought?

 

I have to have a very painful surgery done in a few days. Honestly, in a weird way a part of me is excited for it, just so I can see the look on the doctor's face when I wave him in and say "grab the needle and let's do this s***."

 

Facing your fears and conquering them is one of the greatest joys in life. It doesn't matter if you aren't successful the first, second, hundredth time. When you finally crack it, it makes it all worthwhile. And yes, even if you never figure it out, it's better than living with the regret of never trying and living your life as a slave to fear of emotions, which aren't even physical barriers.

 

 

For a loooooong time I did "go there you might meet someone thing and I never did, probably the only thing I did gain was inspiration to write a fictional novel and a greater understanding of "buying".

 

Ok, so even if the nature of dating seems like more of a transaction than you'd like, does that change anything? You still want women, right? But you still refuse to play on any terms other than your own, so what are you expecting to happen here? You have your understanding of the dating process works, but you refuse to engage in it. Are you surprised you haven't had any success? It's like my golf analogy earlier. You want to be good at golf, or you want the big check for winning the tournament, but you also don't even want to try hard enough to learn how to play and/or hate the mechanics and rules of the game, and go online complaining that you can't win the tournament because everyone else knows how to play golf and you don't, and that golf should be more like tennis, because you like tennis. This is madness. Surely you're smart enough to understand the problem here.

 

 

Go out with the models, sure and get treated like some spare part, again no thanks or some pity party. "Oh this is ABC, he cant get a date", that has actually happened to me on more than one occasion.

 

Sure, that wasn't nice of them, but did you do anything to prove them wrong, or did you accept it and let them be right? My guess is that you got all sad and let yourself be a slave to your irrelevant emotions, which only exist in your own head, and tried to do nothing to change their minds. I'd applaud you if you tried something to prove them wrong and failed. But I'm pretty confident you just kept quiet and let them decide your fate for you. They might've respected you and changed their attitude if you had stood up for yourself. If I was you, that would motivate me to prove them wrong. I would fight back, even if I didn't know how. Any form or display of strength would have been beneficial there. I'd be up at the bar in seconds talking to a group of girls just so I could come back with one and drop her right in front of my friend's face. Even if I failed miserably, it would earn me respect for being fearless. Doing nothing about it would be the only way to ensure failure.

 

 

Your emotions are irrelevant. Your emotions are irrelevant. Your emotions are irrelevant.

 

Think of this, a grown man saying "I can't go and do X, even though if I conquer it, it will lead me to the thing I desire most in life, because I'm too scared and it might make me sad." A grown adult male.

 

You don't have enough will to fight for the things you want. You don't have enough will to even learn to fight. You are voluntarily removing yourself from the gene pool. You refuse to take the appropriate actions to get the things you desire, so stop complaining that you don't have the things you desire.

 

WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING ON YOUR OWN TERMS HASN'T BEEN WORKING. Either do things you don't want to do regardless of how they make you feel, or just don't do them and stop complaining about your love life already. Jesus. This is unbelievable.

[ZA Dater]

Ok so I am going for a daytime coffee date, must be honest I am only doing this for "numbers" no other reason. She doesn't especially appeal to me for a variety of reasons but I guess numbers cant be a bad thing.

[MonkeyLogic]

Here is a question for you.

 

Do you totally discount past benchmarks when doing the number thing, I still have no idea how to get any sort of numbers as nobody on OKcupid looks remotely appealing.

 

Yes, I ignored past benchmarks. I'd highly recommend using multiple sites / apps. I used OK Cupid, POF, Tinder, Bumble and eHarmony. Again the goal is meeting as many women as possible as that will give you the greatest chance of meeting someone compatible.

 

For OK Cupid specifically make sure you answer as many of their questions as possible and be completely honest (you can hide the questions if it's too embarrassing). I did meet a few people off OK Cupid, but not many. I generally would only meet people with a match % over 90 and there weren't very many in that category.

 

Tinder, Bumble and POF all gave me the most meets. Those are all about the pics so make sure you're rotating your pics around and adding new ones on a regular basis.

 

eHarmony is a different animal all together and I actually would recommend it if you have the money. I think I found a deal where I was paying ~$6 USD / month which I think is far below the regular cost. Again you have to invest time in answering a lot of questions, and there aren't nearly as many people as are on the free sites, so your strategy needs to be a bit different. Treat each match separately and don't just "bomb" all the matches at once. You can get more numbers from the other sites, but if you use eHarmony, focus on one match at a time.

 

Its incredibly hard to sit down and realise within 30 minutes the person isn't going to offer any sort of intellectual challenge, this is my other problem its either go for

 

1: Looks

2: Intellect

 

So far. Again meet more people. You're basing your entire view of love and dating and the relatively minuscule amount of women you've actually. The amount of women you haven't met is vastly greater and your match is in the huge category of women.

 

I have given up trying to find both in the same person, its practically impossible and those who do have it aren't single.

 

Definitely impossible if you don't get dates. Remember your experience is so limited, you can't really make any fair assessments at this point.

 

So I go out with someone as has happened in the past, not really attractive to me but ok lets see maybe the personality will win me over, which never happens.

 

So definitely do not bother with women you find unattractive. That's just a non-starter. Your range should be (for looks alone) women you're just neutral about to women you find really attractive. With the right personality a neutral can become beautiful with time.

 

Ok so I chase physical attraction, that's even harder to find on any platform barring Tinder but even then those I like don't match with me.

 

That's just life as an average guy on Tinder. I think my match percent was less than 1%, but since I'm looking for an actual match, I was fine with it. Still met a fair amount of attractive women off of Tinder. Personalities weren't a match with any of them though. Again you won't be compatible with the vast amount of strangers that you meet. That's just reality.

 

 

Honestly I think the real problem I have is I have spent time around some really nice, non single people who live interesting lives and maybe I have taken that as the norm, perhaps people don't genuinely care where the Bahamas is or the politics in Europe, perhaps they genuinely don't have ambition. Maybe I am just totally wrong and unrealistic.

 

Not a problem and not wrong or unrealistic. You have a pretty good idea of your core values and some examples of the qualities you're looking for. This actually makes it easier. You can "next" someone quite easily and not waste time. It's people who are wishy washy on what they're looking for that waste so much time dating people that aren't a good match. They spin their wheels and never really get anywhere..

 

I will say this, its great to sit down with someone who does give me a challenge which is why I am not totally adverse to the often criticised friend zone because at least with that I get something.

 

Having friends is another thing you have going for you. Just make sure you don't secretly want to be more than friends. If you do want that, it's best to part ways as you'll be wasting valuable emotional energy hoping for something that just won't happen.

 

But having friends that challenge us is great!

[ZA Dater]

I'm really sorry but there has got to be more to it than this. I don't know your history and I'm conscious that we are not just the sum of our posts here on LS so I've avoided reading all your other threads, but getting cues from other posters on this thread, I feel like something is missing. If not, your dating woes don't appear to be drastically different to other single people your age.

 

It's just the continuous barrage of excuses you have given to nearly all the advice offered to you on this thread suggests that your mind and heart are not actually truly open to a relationship, for one reason or another.

 

It reads to me like you are suffering from unrequited love with a particular someone and you are finding it very difficult to move on?

 

Not really, I have liked people but I think over time I have probably got better idea of what is gettable and simply isn't. As I say there are people I wouldn't mind going with because I think it would be a nice experience but that's not remotely possible.

 

 

I should add a proviso to everything, I need someone who can fit in with some of the more interesting aspects of my life and those people are hard to find.

[ZA Dater]

Yes, I ignored past benchmarks. I'd highly recommend using multiple sites / apps. I used OK Cupid, POF, Tinder, Bumble and eHarmony. Again the goal is meeting as many women as possible as that will give you the greatest chance of meeting someone compatible.

 

For OK Cupid specifically make sure you answer as many of their questions as possible and be completely honest (you can hide the questions if it's too embarrassing). I did meet a few people off OK Cupid, but not many. I generally would only meet people with a match % over 90 and there weren't very many in that category.

 

Tinder, Bumble and POF all gave me the most meets. Those are all about the pics so make sure you're rotating your pics around and adding new ones on a regular basis.

 

eHarmony is a different animal all together and I actually would recommend it if you have the money. I think I found a deal where I was paying ~$6 USD / month which I think is far below the regular cost. Again you have to invest time in answering a lot of questions, and there aren't nearly as many people as are on the free sites, so your strategy needs to be a bit different. Treat each match separately and don't just "bomb" all the matches at once. You can get more numbers from the other sites, but if you use eHarmony, focus on one match at a time.

 

 

 

So far. Again meet more people. You're basing your entire view of love and dating and the relatively minuscule amount of women you've actually. The amount of women you haven't met is vastly greater and your match is in the huge category of women.

 

 

 

Definitely impossible if you don't get dates. Remember your experience is so limited, you can't really make any fair assessments at this point.

 

 

 

So definitely do not bother with women you find unattractive. That's just a non-starter. Your range should be (for looks alone) women you're just neutral about to women you find really attractive. With the right personality a neutral can become beautiful with time.

 

 

 

That's just life as an average guy on Tinder. I think my match percent was less than 1%, but since I'm looking for an actual match, I was fine with it. Still met a fair amount of attractive women off of Tinder. Personalities weren't a match with any of them though. Again you won't be compatible with the vast amount of strangers that you meet. That's just reality.

 

 

 

 

Not a problem and not wrong or unrealistic. You have a pretty good idea of your core values and some examples of the qualities you're looking for. This actually makes it easier. You can "next" someone quite easily and not waste time. It's people who are wishy washy on what they're looking for that waste so much time dating people that aren't a good match. They spin their wheels and never really get anywhere..

 

 

 

Having friends is another thing you have going for you. Just make sure you don't secretly want to be more than friends. If you do want that, it's best to part ways as you'll be wasting valuable emotional energy hoping for something that just won't happen.

 

But having friends that challenge us is great!

 

 

I think sometimes friends can add a lot of the value we miss when we are lonely or have bad dating experiences. While its true I had some idea of dating this person I have put that idea away and am quite happy with friends because in that sphere she does challenge me to be better, challenges me to be less shy and more outgoing and I just feel more confident when she is around.

 

 

I don't bother with the really attractive ones, I have given up there because I don't stand a chance at all with the guys they look at and like, found this out chatting to a model friend.

 

 

The other comments are fair and I reckon you have a good points, its just extremely dispiriting to go on dates and its just a huge disappointment from start to end. When I say disappointment its usually because I just don't like the personality or there is no common ground.

 

 

I am my own harshest critic though.

[ZA Dater]

You don't "have" to do anything. But if you want any reasonable chance of success with women (and judging by your multitude of threads on here complaining about your lack of success, you absolutely do, so stop pretending otherwise), there are compromises and sacrifices you "should" make.

 

 

 

 

This has been well documented. How's it worked out for you so far?

 

What would you say to people who said the following?

 

"I didn't like having to go to school -- can't I just be smart already?"

"I don't want to get that painful medical procedure -- can't I just be healthy already?"

"I don't like having to go to the gym -- can't I just be ripped already?"

"I don't like having to work for money -- can't I just be rich already?"

"I don't like having to engage in a complex cultural mating dance to get women -- can't they just like me already?"

 

If you have any sense, you'd say "stop acting like a child and deal with it."

 

Often the most difficult things are the ones most worth doing. I can't think of any other way to advance your life and get what you want more than that. And you're outright refusing to do it. There should be no surprise that you don't have success.

 

If you aren't willing to do what's necessary, then stop complaining.

 

 

 

I didn't say "be lonely," I suggested you do things to get you on a path to not be lonely. If you refuse to deal with the momentary discomfort of things you don't like or are scared of long enough to conquer them, you're probably never going to get what you want. It's very simple. The people who can withstand that discomfort long enough to learn from it and adapt are out there right now getting girls you might've had otherwise. They paid the price for them, you refused to pay the price. This is your fate.

 

The US Marines have an adage: Pain is weakness leaving the body. You refuse to endure enough pain to get the things you want, and therefore remain weak. The strong will easily conquer the weak in the fight for the desirable things. What will it take for you to summon the strength to face discomfort? Do you just not have genes? Are you capable of evolving and becoming more than what you previously thought?

 

I have to have a very painful surgery done in a few days. Honestly, in a weird way a part of me is excited for it, just so I can see the look on the doctor's face when I wave him in and say "grab the needle and let's do this s***."

 

Facing your fears and conquering them is one of the greatest joys in life. It doesn't matter if you aren't successful the first, second, hundredth time. When you finally crack it, it makes it all worthwhile. And yes, even if you never figure it out, it's better than living with the regret of never trying and living your life as a slave to fear of emotions, which aren't even physical barriers.

 

 

 

 

Ok, so even if the nature of dating seems like more of a transaction than you'd like, does that change anything? You still want women, right? But you still refuse to play on any terms other than your own, so what are you expecting to happen here? You have your understanding of the dating process works, but you refuse to engage in it. Are you surprised you haven't had any success? It's like my golf analogy earlier. You want to be good at golf, or you want the big check for winning the tournament, but you also don't even want to try hard enough to learn how to play and/or hate the mechanics and rules of the game, and go online complaining that you can't win the tournament because everyone else knows how to play golf and you don't, and that golf should be more like tennis, because you like tennis. This is madness. Surely you're smart enough to understand the problem here.

 

 

 

 

Sure, that wasn't nice of them, but did you do anything to prove them wrong, or did you accept it and let them be right? My guess is that you got all sad and let yourself be a slave to your irrelevant emotions, which only exist in your own head, and tried to do nothing to change their minds. I'd applaud you if you tried something to prove them wrong and failed. But I'm pretty confident you just kept quiet and let them decide your fate for you. They might've respected you and changed their attitude if you had stood up for yourself. If I was you, that would motivate me to prove them wrong. I would fight back, even if I didn't know how. Any form or display of strength would have been beneficial there. I'd be up at the bar in seconds talking to a group of girls just so I could come back with one and drop her right in front of my friend's face. Even if I failed miserably, it would earn me respect for being fearless. Doing nothing about it would be the only way to ensure failure.

 

 

Your emotions are irrelevant. Your emotions are irrelevant. Your emotions are irrelevant.

 

Think of this, a grown man saying "I can't go and do X, even though if I conquer it, it will lead me to the thing I desire most in life, because I'm too scared and it might make me sad." A grown adult male.

 

You don't have enough will to fight for the things you want. You don't have enough will to even learn to fight. You are voluntarily removing yourself from the gene pool. You refuse to take the appropriate actions to get the things you desire, so stop complaining that you don't have the things you desire.

 

WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING ON YOUR OWN TERMS HASN'T BEEN WORKING. Either do things you don't want to do regardless of how they make you feel, or just don't do them and stop complaining about your love life already. Jesus. This is unbelievable.

 

 

 

I am well aware of the need to keep trying, everything I have accomplished is because I don't give up.

 

 

I'll tell you one thing about those rejections, there I did ask a friend for advice he said simply just let them go, don't go back and try prove them wrong which is what I wanted to do. I'll tell you something else, many of them are still single, not having found their white picket fence and utopia.

 

 

I'll infuriate you further, I'd rather be an unsuccessful dating individual than unsuccessful and part of a crowd. If people cannot respect others for their choice I ask do I really want to date those people at all, irrespective of their physical attributes, think about that for a minute. Does that make me a sacrifice to a useless cause, perhaps.

 

 

Here is another fact, you make me sound unwilling to compromise, if I met someone great tomorrow who likes clubs, I'd probably go BUT I wouldn't go there to meet someone great. Compromise is important and yes I am wiling to do that in the sense I will compromise for someone but not to get someone. The fact there are many books along the lines of "how to make friends as an adult" suggest there is a fair degree of problem at this and one should ask why because its directly related to the same peoples ability to date, in my view anyway.

 

 

Again you state steps, you start golf you will be useless (racing the gold cart around has more appeal to me personally) but you will see improvements, that's the motivation but what I am stuck in is a scenario where

 

 

1: I don't meet people I want

2: When by some amazing miracle I do nothing happens or they aren't single

3: I go on dates and never seem to get better at it.

 

 

That's my point, how do you actually see improvements here? What do you measure your game against?

[Steve51]

I am one of those guys who gets most things he wants. I was professionally diagnosed with a Machiavellian personality and an IQ in the 99th Percentile of the population. I knew the later since I was always in classes for gifted students but never had a personality test before. The Psychologist said my ability to manipulate people was so strong that even though she knew this about me, she found herself manipulated by me.

 

This is actually a very long and detailed story but here is the condensed version to show you what I mean. Had a crush on a girl with I was 13 who had no interest in me and in fact, slapped my face. Fast forward 27 years and my wife is asking that girl if she would like to have sex with me since she was sad after a nasty divorce and complained about not having sex in 8 months. Had sex, invited my wife to join learned that girlfriend is bi and so is my wife. Girlfriend moves in with us and is in our life for the next 30 years. Mission accomplished and I love a good challenge. In fact, that girl called me up yesterday to tell me that she loves me. I got transferred far away and she could not come.

 

I met a girl on a train, asked her out on a date and got engaged to her 3 weeks later. Did not find out that my crush was her best friend until after the engagement. Just marrying my crush's best friend is incredible luck. I sometimes think that I can wish for things and they come true. Also lucky that the girlfriend was secretly bi and my wife was hiding her bisexuality from me. What are the odds??? I have had a few similar situations where things I thought were impossible, became possible. I get paid well because I do the things that others say is unobtainable. Do what it takes to get what you want and you may find out that your grasp does exceed your reach.

[littleblackheart]

Not really, I have liked people but I think over time I have probably got better idea of what is gettable and simply isn't. As I say there are people I wouldn't mind going with because I think it would be a nice experience but that's not remotely possible.

 

 

I should add a proviso to everything, I need someone who can fit in with some of the more interesting aspects of my life and those people are hard to find.

 

So in the end, what you're saying is that you've been unlucky in love so far, and that dating is hard?

[preraph]

You know, we all like what we can't have, but if you can't accept reality and that you can't always get what you want, then your mother didn't raise you right. It's a parent's job to teach a kid they can't have everything they want and accept it with grace.

 

I mean, I would like a boat with a captain and a hydraulic lift and a '69 Charger RT, a big hunk of land with a spring on it and enough money to be able to donate a billion dollars to animal rescue, but I learned to enjoy what I did have, so I'm okay with an innertube, a Prius, a nice back yard and keeping a couple of rescue dogs.

[normal person]

I am well aware of the need to keep trying, everything I have accomplished is because I don't give up.

 

But your refuse to compromise on other things, and that's probably a large reason why you haven't succeeded in those areas.

 

I'll tell you one thing about those rejections, there I did ask a friend for advice he said simply just let them go, don't go back and try prove them wrong which is what I wanted to do.

 

I think that's good advice, usually. Circumstantial.

 

I'll tell you something else, many of them are still single, not having found their white picket fence and utopia.

 

I'm not surprised. You like what you like and can't get it for whatever reason, and they like what they like and can't get it for whatever reason. So they don't compromise their desires, or make the necessary sacrifices to fulfill their desires, and they don't get what they want.

 

 

I'll infuriate you further, I'd rather be an unsuccessful dating individual than unsuccessful and part of a crowd.

 

You say this like you're some unique, misunderstood, contrarian crusader of personal integrity and "the crowd" is just a mass of mindless, heathen, lemmings all without a modicum of self respect. Things are not nearly as binary as you're painting them here to try and win an argument. In reality, you'll find every type of person with any number of different proclivities and/or reservations. They learn to deal and adapt. You refuse. You won't just grin and bear a conversation you don't enjoy for an hour. You won't just have one drink to prevent you from looking stuffy even though it will have basically no affect on you. You won't deal with any atmosphere you don't like.

 

If your statement was really true, you wouldn't be posting. You'd be happy. You are unsuccessful, you're not part of "the crowd," and rather than just sucking it up and doing a few things you frown upon to adapt to society and get what you want, you're here with the impossible wish that society should adapt to you. It won't. The sooner you realize this, the better. Time to stop pretending.

 

If people cannot respect others for their choice I ask do I really want to date those people at all, irrespective of their physical attributes, think about that for a minute.

 

Think about this for a minute. Are you really expecting to meet a person you're absolutely 100% compatible with, with whom you never do anything that irks each other, whose interests and priorities always align perfectly with yours? I'd say don't hold your breath. If you want the person to stay around, you'll need to compromise some things, and if they want to keep you around, they'll need to compromise some things as well. You'll need to meet in the middle.

 

If you ever manage to get a girlfriend, she, at some point, is going to want to do something with you that you have no interest or don't like. She may want to spend two hours watching The Bachelor or she may have poor spending habits. She's also going to have qualms with you, like how you're too steadfast in your opposition to doing anything that isn't convenient or comfortable for you. So if you want to keep her around, you're just gonna sit and watch The Bachelor and the next night, she's going to do something you like that she finds equally as trivial. If you match up in the bigger areas, you'll want to be with this person and learn to deal with the smaller stuff.

 

It's not so much an issue of "respecting choice," it's an issue of deciding whether or not the things you don't like about a person are worth dealing with. What you're really doing is here is standing on some faux high ground of personal integrity and using it as an excuse to cast aside women because you're scared of doing things you don't like that you know you might have to do. You're saying "If women don't want me because I'm an absolute individual, and I refuse to do X, Y, or Z, then I'm happier being single!" when in actuality, you're not happy at all because you're still here complaining and wondering how you can avoid X, Y, and Z and still get women. Here's the reality, if you want someone that badly, you might have to adjust your stance on X. You might have to overlook something about her and drop your Z entirely. Maybe it's not as big of a deal as you think it is. You will never, ever, ever find a person whose choices you totally agree with who coincidentally total agrees with yours.

 

Stick to your core beliefs, but leave some room to adjust and compromise if your desire for a person is greater.

 

Does that make me a sacrifice to a useless cause, perhaps.

 

If you really accepted that as your fate, you wouldn't still be posting here wondering how to change it. You've got at least a dozen threads on similar topics. You know the landscape. Things haven't changed. You need to compromise things in order to get what you want. End of story.

 

Here is another fact, you make me sound unwilling to compromise, if I met someone great tomorrow who likes clubs, I'd probably go BUT I wouldn't go there to meet someone great. Compromise is important and yes I am wiling to do that in the sense I will compromise for someone but not to get someone.

 

Time will tell.

 

Again you state steps, you start golf you will be useless (racing the gold cart around has more appeal to me personally) but you will see improvements, that's the motivation but what I am stuck in is a scenario where

 

1: I don't meet people I want

2: When by some amazing miracle I do nothing happens or they aren't single

3: I go on dates and never seem to get better at it.

 

That's my point, how do you actually see improvements here? What do you measure your game against?

 

What have you learned on these dates, and what are you changing? I would also say that eliminating someone from contention because you're incompatible is not a failure. It's a necessary cut to make.

Who/what/where are the people you want and what's your plan of attack?

[Cookiesandough]

I respect your view points and opinions. I don't want to sound offish, its not my intention but while I agree with you, why is it this never applies to people who reject me after one date? I have been quite happy in the past within reason to give people the benefit of the doubt but have never been given the same in return.

 

 

PS: I don't drink coffee so doing coffee dates just brings another step of awkwardness I would rather avoid. I have done them in the past.

 

It that's their mistake, perhaps. This whole thread is about you! Not them! How will you know if chemistry won't evolve with a girl outside the very limited parameters you have set. Do you? Have you given it a shot? People end up with people who are very different than their type sometimes. Just wondering.

[ZA Dater]

An aside of this was the fact I hit Tinder and as someone suggested just went out with anyone. It took all of perhaps 2 hours to find someone and 10 minutes to agree to meet.

 

 

What unfolded was me meeting her at a closed restaurant, us then heading to a club (with the chorus of Lshack in my head) here realising I don't drink or smoke (she did both), some awkward conversation for over an hour in the middle of which her asking me if I want to call an end to the date. I stuck it out but my over riding impressions was

 

 

1: I just don't enjoy those sorts of places, its all good and well to leave comfort zones which I did but did I really benefit, not at all.

2: As soon as she realised I don't drink or dance any interest was gone.

 

 

I was chatting to a friend and here was her question "would you drink if it meant being able to attract more people?", she openly admitted to me that not drinking is a big red flag.

 

 

The view I am getting is, maybe I am wrong.

 

 

1: If you don't do what people you like do, then they wont find you attractive.

 

 

Is that completely wrong, because where I am sitting it seems completely right.