Always attracted to the odd ones out

[Imajerk17]

I do feel that on this forum, we do tend to make too many armchair psychological diagnoses.

 

This is my take: Many of us, on some level at least, don't want an easy life, we want a life of challenge and adventure. We want to think of ourselves as special and deep and who are willing to go off the beaten path. Is that a "narcissistic" trait? I suppose taken to the extreme (or maybe not), but I think a lot of us --including OP--have a bit of that in ourselves.

 

By going for someone with serious issues, you get to see yourself as a deep caring person. You get to face challenges and problems together and feel a sense of purpose. That your friends and family might not approve only feeds into your getting to see yourself as a deep passionate independent woman who goes against the grain for her love.

 

On the other hand, if you were to date someone normal, you don't get those feelings. That the relationship would be easy and your family and friends approve may mean (in your mind) that you are settling for the cookie-cutter norm. As that is not how you want to see yourself, you end up rejecting these guys.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Imajerk17

[Bastile]

You see, the intensity I'm seeking has nothing to do with sex.

 

I know what you're saying.

 

Difference is that I'm attaching a lot of importance to sex, especially over the last few years. Pride, validation, etc. And that took importance for me.

 

I'm a guy. The experience is different

 

in my case, I think that a part of me is rebelling against what relationships have become. Easy to discard, shallow, distant. You're supposed to talk about the mundane, be completely independent, have sex early and without getting to know each other's inner worlds.

 

I've rebelled in a big way too. But it was more of a family thing. I grew up in a certain niche culture that was quite imposing.

 

Everyone makes rules and tries to force expectations onto all of us. Whether that be your family, general society, feminists, PUA's, friends, etc. It always makes me want to challenge the definition.

 

I think that in pushing the boundary, you find your own identity. Though many just sleepwalk through the entire experience.

 

The thing about "troubled men" (or however people want to define it) is that we piss all over boundaries and walls that are generally accepted as being standard.

 

On reflection, that's just how you connect. By expressing yourself. Not by being smooth, indifferent, and surface level.

[Lorenza]

I do feel that on this forum, we do tend to make too many armchair psychological diagnoses.

 

This is my take: Most of us, on some level at least, don't want an easy life, we want a life of challenge and adventure.

 

By going for someone with serious issues, you get to see yourself as a deep caring person. You get to face challenges and problems together and feel a sense of purpose. That your friends and family might not approve only feeds into your getting to see yourself as a deep passionate independent woman who goes against the grain for her love.

 

On the other hand, if you were to date someone normal, you don't get those feelings. That the relationship would be easy and your family and friends approve may mean (in your mind) that you are settling for the cookie-cutter norm. As that is not how you want to see yourself, you end up rejecting these guys.

 

This does make a lot of sense as well. Seems like there's a little bit of everything in here: wanting an exciting love with a sense of purpose, wanting to "save" someone and in the way become very special to them, getting the intensity and love only a "not-normal" person can give, not willing to settle for a boring, distant relationship where both are just two independent people who don't need each other, anxiety and fear of abandonment.

 

God, it's a mess.

[Bastile]

God, it's a mess.

 

Nah, it's just life.

 

Sublimate it and be another drone.

[Lorenza]

Nah, it's just life.

 

Sublimate it and be another drone.

 

But I'm always ending up with the wrong men. Who give me that depth and intensity just to shatter it and trample all over me later. What I take upon me to save them from ends up being the thing I need to save myself from as well.

 

Doesn't seem like there is a way.

[Bastile]

But I'm always ending up with the wrong men. Who give me that depth and intensity just to shatter it and trample all over me later. What I take upon me to save them from ends up being the thing I need to save myself from as well.

 

Doesn't seem like there is a way.

 

Then perhaps we find ourselves in the same position - despite being on opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

Do we need to compromise on certain standards that we have, just regarding them as unfair expectations?

 

I'm really starting to think that maybe we do.

[No_Go]

L, I'm fairly certain this is to some extent cultural. I've been talking to therapists in the US/Western Europe and they did not confirm, however, my unique experience of moving from the East to the West (Eastern Europe to Western Europe to US) tells me this.

 

I also crave deep relationship. My unfortunate last ex wanted to hang out, play sports, watch TV shows, eat together. This was supposedly how his parents brought him up. For me was so insufficient that even outside people were commenting I look lonely (for the record I was not, in terms of physical presence - we were living together and rarely spent time apart).

 

My parents (Eastern European) used to share a lot of information about their days etc with each other. So much it will be considered TMI in other parts of the world. Now, this is my normal. I am adaptable and try to date to match the people in the region where I'm currently living (and planning to stay), but... In times of stress I return to old habits.

 

I hope this makes at least some sense.

 

Also - I think you may benefit of NOT dating for a while until you figure out the other aspects of your life. Reason being if you're stressed and dating you put WAY more emphasis on your partner, focus on them, search for meaning in them etc... Again in parallel to my own life, after the dramas in October and the relapses the whole spring with my ex, I intentionally shut down any dating opportunities. If I were to date another person in these past months, I'd not be able to handle the stress (in my case, ex-related and house-buying in the same time, it was just too much). Now the clouds has been clearing - so it is maybe time to try again... Earlier it would have been a disaster.

 

Yeah, that either makes me feel needed or makes me wanna rescue them. I don't only prefer troubled men. I also choose troubled women as friends. I think I'd feel very good having a partner or friends whose well-being depended on me, if only they didnt take me for granted and mistreated me. I'm not saying that it's what's I'm gonna do, but I have to admit this to myself. I'd probably be happy in a co-dependant relationship.

[Bastile]

Then perhaps we find ourselves in the same position - despite being on opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

Do we need to compromise on certain standards that we have, just regarding them as unfair expectations?

 

I'm really starting to think that maybe we do.

 

That was vague, and not getting to the point.

 

Point being, perhaps we should consider conformity more than rebellion then?

 

Seems to be the natural course. Not sure that I'm entirely at the point yet, myself though.

[Lorenza]

L, I'm fairly certain this is to some extent cultural. I've been talking to therapists in the US/Western Europe and they did not confirm, however, my unique experience of moving from the East to the West (Eastern Europe to Western Europe to US) tells me this.

 

I also crave deep relationship. My unfortunate last ex wanted to hang out, play sports, watch TV shows, eat together. This was supposedly how his parents brought him up. For me was so insufficient that even outside people were commenting I look lonely (for the record I was not, in terms of physical presence - we were living together and rarely spent time apart).

 

My parents (Eastern European) used to share a lot of information about their days etc with each other. So much it will be considered TMI in other parts of the world. Now, this is my normal. I am adaptable and try to date to match the people in the region where I'm currently living (and planning to stay), but... In times of stress I return to old habits.

 

I hope this makes at least some sense.

 

Also - I think you may benefit of NOT dating for a while until you figure out the other aspects of your life. Reason being if you're stressed and dating you put WAY more emphasis on your partner, focus on them, search for meaning in them etc... Again in parallel to my own life, after the dramas in October and the relapses the whole spring with my ex, I intentionally shut down any dating opportunities. If I were to date another person in these past months, I'd not be able to handle the stress (in my case, ex-related and house-buying in the same time, it was just too much). Now the clouds has been clearing - so it is maybe time to try again... Earlier it would have been a disaster.

 

Relationships in Eastern Europe are fairly different... I'd say it's normal and even desirable to be joined at the hip as a couple, don't you think? That's the type of relationships I saw people have while growing up and that's what can still see when I go there for a visit. My friends all have pretty tight relationships with both their partners and families. Western culture calls it's being co-dependant. There its completely normal.

 

I'm also trying to adapt. But deep inside I do crave that closeness, I do wish my relationship were a little bit on a "conjoined twins" side, something Scandinavian people (or people in Western Europe/US) would call smothering. Knowing each other's deepest thoughts and fears and dreams.

 

Yes, not dating is the only option. I don't really want to, anyway. It's a complete waste to me, going on a date and talking about insignificant things. I did end up meeting that troubled relative I mentioned before and enjoyed hanging out and having deeper conversations. Good thing is there were no attraction.

 

Are you gonna start dating soon, NG? Online dating or gonna try meeting men outside of it? Did you manage to stop seeing the ex?

[bluefeather]

Well, I know for certain I'm not a narcissist and have very little in common with those people. There's little I can identify with. Oh and after going through a psychological evaluation some years ago, my results indicated nothing about that. Actually they came back with a GAD and a PTSD. Perhaps not only narcissists crave emotional intensity

 

Thank you for not responding with defensiveness or hostility. I was not initially calling you a narcissist. But I did point out what looked to me as a narcissistic trait. I think people can express traits while not being one. These two are very different situations. Anyway, I did not say what I said to start a debate on psychological diagnosis. It's just that what you said, regarding craving attention, set off an alarm bell from what I have learned and experienced. Maybe there is something there that should be looked further into. You asked for advice on how to be attracted to healthy men. My advice would be to start in that area - the area that craves unhealthy attention.

[No_Go]

Yes! You got me completely - when I was describing the relationship dynamics in my family (and extended family) to Americans and Dutch, they'll call them codependent. And exactly the same description to my e.g. Albanian and Greek friends: they thought that's how it should be:) Go figure who is right. I personally want to keep agnostic and get out the positives from all cultures - the truth is somewhere in the middle most likely.

 

Maybe after you get a small break for dating you'd feel better and the attraction would come more naturally? What worked for me while online dating is more extensive writing before meeting. I know most people in this forum oppose that as a waste of time but for me chemistry builds that way better than sitting in a coffee shop and blabbing nonsense. Dinner, coffee etc sitting dates without any buildup for me are sterile. If you have a rapport before meeting, it feels more interesting (and you can do something that you both like, even going on a free concert or something, instead of drowning in a small talk over coffee).

 

My ex has been out of the picture in the past month and a half or so. Thankfully he bailed and my guess it was because I moved to my new house and he thought it would be too much work to come visit me haha. It was very draining, I'm just stepping back on my feet after our 7 months long break up process...

 

I want to date soon but honestly I have no idea how to start and how to pace it (not to get an incompatible insta-boyfriend). I feel like I'd go for online route. The only other men that I'm meeting IRL right now are coworkers and contractors and it creeps me out to date at work... I'm realizing I haven't been on a date outside my ex from... over 2 years. It is so weird to imagine being with a new person, although I really want to find a connection.

 

Relationships in Eastern Europe are fairly different... I'd say it's normal and even desirable to be joined at the hip as a couple, don't you think? That's the type of relationships I saw people have while growing up and that's what can still see when I go there for a visit. My friends all have pretty tight relationships with both their partners and families. Western culture calls it's being co-dependant. There its completely normal.

 

I'm also trying to adapt. But deep inside I do crave that closeness, I do wish my relationship were a little bit on a "conjoined twins" side, something Scandinavian people (or people in Western Europe/US) would call smothering. Knowing each other's deepest thoughts and fears and dreams.

 

Yes, not dating is the only option. I don't really want to, anyway. It's a complete waste to me, going on a date and talking about insignificant things. I did end up meeting that troubled relative I mentioned before and enjoyed hanging out and having deeper conversations. Good thing is there were no attraction.

 

Are you gonna start dating soon, NG? Online dating or gonna try meeting men outside of it? Did you manage to stop seeing the ex?

[Popsicle]

I'm no psychologist but I think maybe this may be due to a sort of imprinting. When you were young and started developing loving and sexual feelings for the first time, you did so with someone like you described in your original post. So it's been so that this is the type of man that you find yourself attracted to, even though it may not be something you rationally and through experience have found that it's not good for you. I tend to like the strong, stoic, silent type because I believe that is the type of male I first feel in love with, but I've learned that these types sometimes don't have enough emotion for me, and I need that. I still find myself attracted to them over and over though, even though I know I will end up unsatisfied. So, how do you stop it? Spend some time, I mean, a lot of time, thinking about what you do want in a man (the things that make him different than your usual type) and how important that is to you. Obsess over it even. Re-imprint your brain. And then you will start looking for that.

[SammySammy]

There is nothing wrong with you.

 

Normal is boring.

 

We tend to notice and be drawn to things that are exceptional. Different. Everybody who is great at something is great to the degree they are different from normal people. And it's usually due to exceptional passion, intensity, talent, effort, beauty and so forth.

 

Your behavior is not unusual.

 

The problem is not that you're drawn to quirky men, intense men, or even passionate men. The problem is that the ones you've chosen are self-destructive.

 

There's nothing wrong with being different. Intense. Passionate. You've just got to find the one who uses it constructively. To better his life and yours rather being mired in negative behavior. Negative attitudes.

 

I encourage people to be themselves. To live life on the edge. It's more interesting there. As you well know.

 

I don't think you should try to change that you are attracted to unusual guys. Just choose positive, productive, and constructive unusual guys.

[Lorenza]

There is nothing wrong with you.

 

Normal is boring.

 

We tend to notice and be drawn to things that are exceptional. Different. Everybody who is great at something is great to the degree they are different from normal people. And it's usually due to exceptional passion, intensity, talent, effort, beauty and so forth.

 

Your behavior is not unusual.

 

The problem is not that you're drawn to quirky men, intense men, or even passionate men. The problem is that the ones you've chosen are self-destructive.

 

There's nothing wrong with being different. Intense. Passionate. You've just got to find the one who uses it constructively. To better his life and yours rather being mired in negative behavior. Negative attitudes.

 

I encourage people to be themselves. To live life on the edge. It's more interesting there. As you well know.

 

I don't think you should try to change that you are attracted to unusual guys. Just choose positive, productive, and constructive unusual guys.

 

That would be perfect. If I could have a slightly codependent relationship with a quirky, unusual guy who also cherished me and didn't start devaluing me after a while, I'd be the happiest.

 

I like men who went through some tough stuff in their lives, cause they are the only ones I can relate to, so maybe it's about finding the ones who used their past struggles constructively, instead of letting them take a toll on their emotional well-being.

 

Those who are described as happy, healthy men are usually the ones who had relatively easy lives with no major traumas, but I find them boring and on the shallow side. They don't have the passion and intensity since they never learnt to fight for something that's meaningful to them. They live with the "easy come easy go" type of mentality.

 

You're right, unusual isn't always bad. It's just that I tend to choose the ones who have grave emotional disorders on top of their interesting personalities. Maybe that's what I should work on instead of trying to force myself to like conventional men.

[Lorenza]

I'm no psychologist but I think maybe this may be due to a sort of imprinting. When you were young and started developing loving and sexual feelings for the first time, you did so with someone like you described in your original post. So it's been so that this is the type of man that you find yourself attracted to, even though it may not be something you rationally and through experience have found that it's not good for you. I tend to like the strong, stoic, silent type because I believe that is the type of male I first feel in love with, but I've learned that these types sometimes don't have enough emotion for me, and I need that. I still find myself attracted to them over and over though, even though I know I will end up unsatisfied. So, how do you stop it? Spend some time, I mean, a lot of time, thinking about what you do want in a man (the things that make him different than your usual type) and how important that is to you. Obsess over it even. Re-imprint your brain. And then you will start looking for that.

 

It would probably be true to many people, but I got into my first romantic relationship at the age of 21 and he wasn't even that unstable not problematic. He was probably the definition of "quirky but keeps it under control".

 

If I think what I truly want from a man is the best of both worlds. Someone unconventional but capable of building a relationship that will last. Hope that it's possible...

[Els]

 

If I think what I truly want from a man is the best of both worlds. Someone unconventional but capable of building a relationship that will last. Hope that it's possible...

 

I don't see why it's not. I would describe both myself and my SO as "unconventional", and we've been in a happy LTR for several years. Sure we've had our rough spots, but which LTR hasn't, conventional or otherwise? I know quite a few "quirky" couples too, who go amazingly well together.

 

I don't think liking "unconventionality" necessarily decreases your odds at a happy and compatible LTR, but of course that depends on your definition of what conventional vs unconventional is.

[Lorenza]

I don't see why it's not. I would describe both myself and my SO as "unconventional", and we've been in a happy LTR for several years. Sure we've had our rough spots, but which LTR hasn't, conventional or otherwise? I know quite a few "quirky" couples too, who go amazingly well together.

 

I don't think liking "unconventionality" necessarily decreases your odds at a happy and compatible LTR, but of course that depends on your definition of what conventional vs unconventional is.

 

I just want someone who's artistic in some way, who can express his thoughts decently and likes to philosophize, who's been through something humbling in his life and understands struggle, has empathy and values, some unique traits or interests or views on the issues of the human kind. I can accept a lot of things that come together with this. Even emotional problems.

 

But I also want him to have the capability to commit and communicate, cherish and love each other, have some ambition and drive in life to not drown in debt or substance abuse.

 

Am I unreasonable? :/

[SammySammy]

That would be perfect. If I could have a slightly codependent relationship with a quirky, unusual guy who also cherished me and didn't start devaluing me after a while, I'd be the happiest.

 

I like men who went through some tough stuff in their lives, cause they are the only ones I can relate to, so maybe it's about finding the ones who used their past struggles constructively, instead of letting them take a toll on their emotional well-being.

 

Those who are described as happy, healthy men are usually the ones who had relatively easy lives with no major traumas, but I find them boring and on the shallow side. They don't have the passion and intensity since they never learnt to fight for something that's meaningful to them. They live with the "easy come easy go" type of mentality.

 

You're right, unusual isn't always bad. It's just that I tend to choose the ones who have grave emotional disorders on top of their interesting personalities. Maybe that's what I should work on instead of trying to force myself to like conventional men.

 

I'm not sure that's the case always. Many guys have tough upbringings or go through difficult times and still have great attitudes. That's often what leads to their success. Look at some of the best athletes. Musicians. Entreprenuers. Lots of guys with an edge who have used the tough times to make a positive difference in their lives.

[Lorenza]

I'm not sure that's the case always. Many guys have tough upbringings or go through difficult times and still have great attitudes. That's often what leads to their success. Look at some of the best athletes. Musicians. Entreprenuers. Lots of guys with an edge who have used the tough times to make a positive difference in their lives.

 

But... That's not what I was saying? Especially not in the highlighted part. There I wrote that I can't relate to men who had an easy life and never had to fight for something meaningful to them. Not sure I understand what you meant.