Clarity is so hard to find...

[BreakingWave]

Midnight,

 

Thank you! I love the line about the vegetarian eating the steak - I have a feeling I'm going to point that out to MW next time it comes up. I don't know that there's a label that fits her, honestly. What do you call someone who spends the first 50 years of her life completely, 100 percent heterosexual and then happens to fall in love with a female but doesn't experience any physical or romantic attraction to any other women? I don't think labels are the be-all or the end-all, but they do make things convenient sometimes, and I think she's still closer to straight than to gay or even bisexual.

 

I live near Atlanta, and used to live near Los Angeles. So I definitely don't live in a small community without a big population of gay people.

 

I've joined a few online Meetup groups geared toward LGBT folks, but the events I've been to have consisted mainly of couples trying to make other couple friends, pride committee type things, LGBT parenting, etc. I've been to a couple for singles, but they were awkward as all hell and I didn't meet anyone I was interested in going on a first date with. Speaking of first dates, I've tried several online apps - Match, OKCupid, Coffee Meets Bagel, and Plenty of Fish. It's a running joke with some of my friends - I've been on more first and second dates than anyone they know. However, I have yet to meet anyone with whom I feel a true, genuine connection that way. Perhaps I'm just old fashioned and I like to know a person for a while before I consider whether I'd like to date them. The one exception is the younger woman I met while MW and I were broken up in March. We went out a few times and I really liked her, and could see that if we took it slow and I gave myself a chance to heal, it might lead somewhere. However, she started pressuring me for a serious commitment - the way young people, and let's face it, a disproportionate number of lesbians sometimes do! - less than a month into it and I told her I wasn't the one for her. I also knew, of course, that I was in love with MW, who reopened our door a few weeks later anyway.

 

I'm not interested in dating anyone a lot younger than myself, and let's face it - lesbians are nesters. Most "age-appropriate for me" lesbians have, at this point, already coupled up. I'm not giving up all hope, but I have adjusted my expectations to reality.

 

Right now I just don't know the right way to respond to MW. I don't know if steady patience and friendship are what she needs to realize that it's safe for her to do what at least a big part of her wants to, or if me walking away from her is the way for her to realize she doesn't want to live without me. I'm scared she'll realize that yes, she can easily live without me, and I guess that's what is holding me back. I'm not ready to accept that yet.

[Birdies]

They don't leave even when they tell you they're going to leave. And she has explicitly told you that she doesn't think she'll ever leave. Open your eyes! You have to give up this hope of her leaving! Neither of your two "options" in the last paragraph are realistic at all. I know it's a painful situation, but you owe it to yourself to be honest with yourself.

 

Your options are to continue being OW indefinitely with all the push and pull and emotional pain that it entails, or (much more likely) until your lives blow up, and she chooses her husband and children and throws you under the bus without looking back, and you're left alone and with the home wrecker wh*re label. OR - choose the more immediately painful path that will get you out of this cycle. I'm sorry but there is NOT an option C where you run off together into the sunset. It either sucks now on your own terms, or it sucks much much worse later on someone else's terms.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I think part of the reason she won't take your out is that she does love you and does want you in her life *in addition to* her husband.

 

My xMM did not expect to fall in love with some woman he met at a summer job assignment, but he did, and it was very hard for him to let me go when he went back home. I had to make that decision for him. For us both. He would gladly have kept me emailing him on our secret email as he lived day in, day out with his wife. My little electronic prison.

 

Here's how I viewed it. I wasn't willing to be the icing on the cake of his marriage. I wanted his love, but I wanted it the way a person gives their love to a spouse. And his wife deserved the same. She deserved to be his one and only, not the boring day to day that can only be tolerated because he has the excitement of affair emails.

 

He had to pick, and I made him. Only he knows if he made the right choice. My advice is to make her choose. Walk away and force her to make a decision. She doesn't get to be selfish and have you both. Life doesn't work that way. Love shouldn't work that way.

 

I'm clapping like a happy seal about this post. Yes! And the "little electric prison"...wow, yes that's an awesome way to describe it and I totally relate.

 

BreakingWaves, I've read your whole thread. My heart breaks for you. I agree with FoundMyStrength about walking away and forcing that choice. It may not work out the way you are hoping, she may not (probably won't --sorry!) choose you (the reasons are abundantly obvious from countless threads on LS), but you will regain bits of yourself back. I can totally relate to something you said about your life being disoriented like you've lost interest in things that used to bring you joy. I still feel that almost 8 months out but it is getting significantly less as time passes.

 

It will be tough to walk, but I don't like the way she's treating you now. Like trying to stuff the cat back in the bag and pretend you'll go back to just friends like nothing ever happened. That must make you feel supremely invalidated and maybe marginalized. I think that is insensitive of her. It's irresponsible and easy for her because she plans to go back to her cozy life while you stand there holding the bag. It's selfish of her to do this. Sending you hugs and a hope for peace.

[BreakingWave]

Words can't express how grateful I am to everyone who's read my thread and taken the time to offer words of solidarity, wisdom, and truth. These last few weeks have been more bearable than the months that preceded them precisely because I knew this community was here, that we understand each other because our situations have so many common threads despite their differences. I have read so many of your posts on other threads as well, and know your stories, and just wish I could reach through the screen and give you big hugs.

[BreakingWave]

That must make you feel supremely invalidated and maybe marginalized. I think that is insensitive of her. It's irresponsible and easy for her because she plans to go back to her cozy life while you stand there holding the bag. It's selfish of her to do this.

 

You're right - and I know that if I finally find the strength to leave, I will have to tell her that being "just friends" isn't an option for me. Not right now, probably not ever, for a lot of valid reasons I'm sure everyone reading this already understands.

 

Today, we were able to spend a lot of time together. We had another big conversation, and she talked about what her family would do if/when (she uses both words) they find out. She didn't seem nearly as sure about not leaving as she did yesterday. I think what she said yesterday was honest, and she's confused as all hell. I do agree that self-preservation is key; I can't let her existential crisis ruin my life. But God, I love that woman.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

You're right - and I know that if I finally find the strength to leave, I will have to tell her that being "just friends" isn't an option for me. Not right now, probably not ever, for a lot of valid reasons I'm sure everyone reading this already understands.

 

Today, we were able to spend a lot of time together. We had another big conversation, and she talked about what her family would do if/when (she uses both words) they find out. She didn't seem nearly as sure about not leaving as she did yesterday. I think what she said yesterday was honest, and she's confused as all hell. I do agree that self-preservation is key; I can't let her existential crisis ruin my life. But God, I love that woman.

 

Yep! Walking away from a love like this is one of the toughest things I've ever had to do...and I've been through some things, ya know? One thing I thought about after submitting my earlier post...for someone who is coming out late in life (even in general), how long does that take? Seems to me could be quite a while and process. Couple that with the fact she'd have to leave her marriage and all she's known 30 years and this looks to be a looooong, painful journey for you...that is if she ever would actually go through it. What I believe now after months of reflection is the only way you can even come close to "winning" in your current situation is to walk away. I know that is not what you want to hear, but let me tell you why: either she realizes she can't live without you from the time and space you provide or you gain clarity by her lack of action plus you are that further ahead in healing your heart. One thing I'm confident of is you don't want to encourage the same situation (cake eating) to continue because you and she will become further entrenched in the way things are now. She'd have no incentive to do differently so why would she? If it's any consolation to you, and I realize nothing much is for you right now, here is a story for you. A girl I know told me a story about her mother and her mother's partner. Her mother's partner had not come out to her family. They were together for eight years. Neither of them were having an affair, so this is a situation where just one of the partners simply had not come out to her family. After eight long years, this girl's Mom finally got tired of waiting. She took a job thousand miles away, met another woman whom she began a relationship with, was very happy with her new situation including the new woman new job xcetera. When the woman whom she left behind learned that she was moving on with someone else, finally she contacted her and said that now she is willing to do whatever it takes to make their relationship succeed. Of course by that time it is pretty much too late for the woman who refused to come out to her family for their eight years long relationship. My point is, the lady held in waiting for eight years just for her partner to come out so that they can live in authentic life together. It took her leaving, giving up, moving on with her life for her partner whom she had waited on to come out to her family for eight long years so that they could have an authentic life together for that partner to finally realize what she needed to do to save her love. By then, it was too late for the woman who not come out to her family. When a person knows you are waiting for them to do something, say something, make a change, they don't have motivation to make the change because you are still right there...waiting! Don't let this be you.

Edited May 28, 2017 by HadMeOverABarrel

[BreakingWave]

Hi all,

 

Thanks again for the encouragement and insight. And... thanks in advance to all who are willing to read this lengthy post!

 

I've been away not because I'm doing any better, but because I don't want to feel like a broken record. MW and I have actually been doing much better for the last couple of weeks - a lot of quality time, discussions about the future, me feeling truly loved and like I matter. And me beginning to accept that love might not "win" in terms of her being with me full time, but that I don't have to feel like she's about to bolt just because our communication isn't as much as usual every now and then.

 

Yesterday we got together in the morning and spent a few hours on the phone off and on. I was really touched that she came to me to vent and discuss an issue with her son that she isn't comfortable discussing with her H (the H and her son have *always* had an uneasy relationship) and I treasured being the one person in the world she felt okay talking to. She invited me to come to a family dinner party that night, and because I'm always eager to see her - and truly do enjoy the company of her family, with the exception of H - I went.

 

Nothing *happened* to ruin my night. But it was very strange for me to overhear so many things I'd long since suspected being confirmed by others. H was working and arrived late, and as people were asking where he was, they (his grown kids) mentioned how uninvolved he is, how little time he spends with them and how it was even worse when they were younger, etc. MW was in the position of trying to defend him but it seemed to be a truth universally accepted that he's often absent physically and emotionally. MW has told me about that before but it was a little odd hearing the kids just casually mention it.

 

H came and was his usual gregarious self. Lots of crass jokes (which doesn't bother me as a matter of course, but he can be a lot to take) and being overly touchy/feely with MW. Which, you know, she's his wife. He has every right to be that way I suppose. And I have zero right to resent him for it. It just really gets to me that I spend so much time helping to meet her emotional needs and give her support, and she can't really do that for me unless it's convenient. Meanwhile he's essentially absent from the relationship other than bringing in an impressive income and getting to come home to her every night and wake up with her every day.

 

They were discussing their upcoming travel plans. A weekend away at a fancy resort, followed by a 10-day cruise, followed by a week visiting her parents at the beach. Essentially I won't see her for three solid weeks, while they're living the high life. This crowd is from a very different economic tier than me, so the kind of vacations they take every few months are the kind I would have to save for for a few years. He bragged that the weekend at the resort is "paid for, we get invited to come spend a weekend there all the time because they know we're gonna spend like $20,000 on art while we're there."

 

MW is not one to brag about money. She drives a nice car, she likes her designer clothes, shoes, and all that jazz, and she's extremely well-maintained in terms of her appearance. But she has never thrown their wealth around like a badge of honor. H grew up very poor and I suspect it's insecurity - he has to make sure everyone knows just how wealthy he is now. But it's super tacky and made me a little uncomfortable, mostly because no matter what she says, I really think the money and financial security is a huge part of why she'd never leave him for me. And... I'm not an idiot. I understand how, on a practical level, that is not a bad motivation. Being paycheck-to-paycheck is not fun. It's also not fun to stand around with a bunch of people discussing all their glamorous summer plans and then confess that I'm not going anywhere or doing anything besides studying for the bar exam this summer. (I'm 38 and a former attorney; I left the practice when I moved back to my home state and decided to become a teacher. Now, I'm tired of being broke all the damn time and have decided to transition back into law. MW is 50. Details I have somehow excluded in previous posts.)

 

I hung out for a while but was honestly tired from a day spent outside and not really in the mood to stick around and watch H enjoy being lovey dovey with her. I also didn't like how that feeling was making me see myself - what right do I have to hold it against the man that, after a long day at work earning the money that affords them their nice lifestyle, he wants to cut loose and enjoy the wife he probably still adores and would never suspect is having an affair with her lesbian best friend? I mean seriously, I am not blind. I can see how, however I may feel about his crassness and far right political persuasion, he is the true victim. Not me. He's the only person in this triangle who has no idea he's in it. He's the only one who hasn't consented to a damn thing. And he's the one whose life will be most torn up if it ever comes to light. I am not wretched and without sympathy.

 

So I did my best to have a good time and then when the first few friends started leaving, I mentioned that I was going to head out as well. MW looked disappointed but was sweet - texted me about half an hour later to be sure I'd gotten home safely, and then asked me "Are you okay?" I didn't want to have a serious discussion over snapchat, and I wasn't even sure what I wanted to say, so I just said that I was okay but exhausted and going to get some sleep. She responded, "Okay. I'll talk to you tomorrow?" The question mark seemed odd - we talk every day - but I decided not to read much into it. Maybe she was worried I wasn't okay, maybe her finger slipped, who the heck knows. I said "sure!" and went to bed.

 

All day. NOTHING. I usually wait for her to make first contact because she's the one with a house full of people, and I'd rather wait for her to have legit time to give me some attention in a conversation than be annoying or be one of a dozen people she's trying to pay attention to at once. I finally texted her around 3 to ask how her afternoon was going, and she mentioned that they bought a boat today. Geeze Louise.

 

I guess we're not going to have a "talk" after all - and maybe that's a good thing. I don't know how to articulate what I'm feeling here, much less to her. I suppose I'm hoping that she's thought about the fact that we're about to be apart for an entire month and is planning some special time for me this week, but then I feel like it makes me greedy to expect that. There's a lot going on in her life - parents moving and she's managing that as she's the only child, her son is having some issues, she's packing for three different vacations, etc.

 

I just realized today that I don't feel like I'm building toward anything with anyone. And that's so silly. Rationally, I can refute every single one of my thoughts of worthlessness and emptiness. I'm studying for the bar. I'm rededicating myself to health and fitness and training to run a half marathon for the first time in a year (I used to run them frequently.) I have *wonderful* friendships that I need to spend more time on after devoting outsize amounts of time to MW. I am active in a small group from church and trying to reconnect with my faith. And studying for the Bar exam is no joke! I legitimately have a lot going on. And as recently as a couple of months ago, a really awesome single woman was very interested in me and is still barking up my tree in the form of texts and offers to hang out. Unfortunately I've had my head so far up MW's ass I can't see anyone else or give them a fair shot.

 

So... why do I feel like a hamster on a wheel, doing things just to kill time, when it seems like it would be so much better if I had a family or partner? I feel like I'm 38 stuck at where I was at 25. Like my life has been a suspended young adulthood and I'm running 15 years late on life, on finances, on everything?

[freengreen]

All she wants is an ego boost... that feeling that someone is head over heels for her. She will take it until you supply it. Feeling might be attached to it but its mostly about the kick the feeling gives rather than who gives it.

 

Its bad news I am afraid. She wont leave her husband, she wont make a life with you... yet, she knows how to string you along with little meetings and 'caring' texts.....I am not saying that she dosent love you, I am saying that she feels ok about you wasting rest of your life waiting for her while she carries on both sides...there might be love but there isnt any respect for you or your love, she cares only about HER love.

 

You dont have to feel sad about not moving on... I do feel that I havnt moved much since my 20s as well but its ok, Iam happy where I am and most importantly, atleast I aint allowing someone else to drag me down selfishly into the gutter. This relationship of yours is throwing light on wrong things in your life.

 

Please takecare of yourself. Clearly you arnt (and she wont). (((Breaking Wavw)))

[BreakingWave]

Thank you! I wish I could hug *all* of you. I know my actions (staying in the A) don't indicate it, but I truly am taking all words of advice to heart and appreciate you all for staying with me and reading my story. I admire all of you for the strength it's taken for you to get to where you are. I have brief moments where I think about telling her I can't do it anymore, but in all honesty my resolve melts as soon as I hear from her.

[Vivir]

I just realized today that I don't feel like I'm building toward anything with anyone. And that's so silly. Rationally, I can refute every single one of my thoughts of worthlessness and emptiness. I'm studying for the bar. I'm rededicating myself to health and fitness and training to run a half marathon for the first time in a year (I used to run them frequently.) I have *wonderful* friendships that I need to spend more time on after devoting outsize amounts of time to MW. I am active in a small group from church and trying to reconnect with my faith. And studying for the Bar exam is no joke! I legitimately have a lot going on. And as recently as a couple of months ago, a really awesome single woman was very interested in me and is still barking up my tree in the form of texts and offers to hang out. Unfortunately I've had my head so far up MW's ass I can't see anyone else or give them a fair shot.

 

So... why do I feel like a hamster on a wheel, doing things just to kill time, when it seems like it would be so much better if I had a family or partner? I feel like I'm 38 stuck at where I was at 25. Like my life has been a suspended young adulthood and I'm running 15 years late on life, on finances, on everything?

 

Breaking Wave, I was so happy to read your refutes, because if you hadn't written them, I would've - at least the one about taking the bar exam. That is an investment in YOU, and you should be proud

 

Maybe you could take the single woman up on her offer and hang out? I'm sorry you feel as if you can't do this, or that you would be wrong for doing so. You have to do what you feel is best, of course. I'm just saying... It takes time to get to know people.

 

Getting to know someone else, not necessarily taking it to the next level or anything, may help to divert your attention from MW... While I am out of the A, I am worried that I am unworthy of a real relationship because of the A . I am talking to a couple of guys, but I am not pressing the relationship issue with either of them. I am taking my time, observing their behavior and actions... getting to know them. I am working through my issues by journaling and having a relationship with myself! I am considering counseling because processing sometimes causes me great anxiety and confusion...

 

Like you and freengreen, I feel like Time has left me behind, too. I feel like I've been asleep for a number of years or something. I wish I could just wake up! Action is the way I try to wake myself up. At least two times a month, I try to plan something interesting for me to do, even if it is something simple. Last week, I went for ice cream. In April, I took a mini vacation. In early May I went to my very first book club meeting... things like that. I wish I could run a half marathon! Wow! The best I can do is jog for two minutes, walk for two minutes lol...

 

x

[BTDT2012]

I am active in a small group from church and trying to reconnect with my faith. And studying for the Bar exam is no joke! I legitimately have a lot going on. And as recently as a couple of months ago, a really awesome single woman was very interested in me and is still barking up my tree in the form of texts and offers to hang out. Unfortunately I've had my head so far up MW's ass I can't see anyone else or give them a fair shot.

 

Are you a Christian, or practicing a faith where the Ten Commandments are relevant?

[Birdies]

This is sad to read. The financial stuff really paints the picture completely. It's never going to get any better, she's always going to leave you wanting much more, any talk of running away together is just talk - and probably at some point, all hell will break loose and she'll throw you under the bus, and you'll feel a million times worse.

 

I totally understand not feeling ready or able to break it off, because you truly love the person. Been there done that. But I'm telling you from experience, while ending things now under your own control will feel terrible - it's the least terrible ending that could possibly happen. It will be 1000000 times worse when it comes out of the blue and is not in your control in any way.

[BreakingWave]

Maybe you could take the single woman up on her offer and hang out? I'm sorry you feel as if you can't do this, or that you would be wrong for doing so. You have to do what you feel is best, of course. I'm just saying... It takes time to get to know people.

 

Getting to know someone else, not necessarily taking it to the next level or anything, may help to divert your attention from MW... While I am out of the A, I am worried that I am unworthy of a real relationship because of the A . I am talking to a couple of guys, but I am not pressing the relationship issue with either of them. I am taking my time, observing their behavior and actions... getting to know them. I am working through my issues by journaling and having a relationship with myself! I am considering counseling because processing sometimes causes me great anxiety and confusion...

 

Like you and freengreen, I feel like Time has left me behind, too. I feel like I've been asleep for a number of years or something. I wish I could just wake up! Action is the way I try to wake myself up. At least two times a month, I try to plan something interesting for me to do, even if it is something simple. Last week, I went for ice cream. In April, I took a mini vacation. In early May I went to my very first book club meeting... things like that. I wish I could run a half marathon! Wow! The best I can do is jog for two minutes, walk for two minutes lol...

 

x

 

Vivir,

 

Thank you so much, and bless you. We have so much in common!

 

As far as dating, I've tried dating two other people while in the A - somewhat ironically, at MW's suggestion. We've since had conversations where she's said she would hope that we could continue our "special friendship" even if I do find someone. I told her flatly that would never work for me - that I will never see her as simply something on the side, and that I would not walk into a new relationship knowing ahead of time that I had no plans to be faithful. She understood that, or at least told me she did, but said it made her feel even more guilty that I would be "putting my life on hold" waiting for her to make a decision she doesn't think she'll ever be brave enough to make. I suppose it doesn't make her feel guilty enough to give me up, but if I'm honest with myself I don't want her to. I also don't want it to continue like this, with a few hours or a day of wonderful followed by a week of being reminded I'm not exactly a big priority for her.

 

The first person I tried dating, it just wasn't a big match. I doubt it would have gone anywhere even if MW wasn't around. The second one was very different. She has a lot going for her and is someone I probably would have given a real chance if not for the A and my being so stuck on MW that everyone else falls short. MW is easily the most attractive, smartest, funniest person I've ever dated, and the fact that we were friends for a few years first meant that we skipped all the awkward "getting to know you" stuff that people say you're supposed to enjoy about dating but that I really don't.

 

The issue with the second woman is that she DID start pressuring me for a relationship. She wanted me to agree to be her "girlfriend" after three weeks. I agreed, because this was during my one-month breakup with MW, and I thought it was healthy to try to fill up my time with someone else who was, in her own right, a great catch and really fun. But that woman started laying down expectations that I wasn't ready for. For instance, she was annoyed that I didn't take a day off work at the end of the semester to attend her graduation from law school to meet about 10 members of her family. Bear in mind, we'd been dating less than a month at that point. And she didn't invite me - she just expressed annoyance and hurt when she mentioned the plans and I admitted that I hadn't realized I was expected to attend. At that point I was as honest as I could be, and told her that I didn't think I was ready for to be in a Serious Relationship after a few weeks. She has been cool and we've continued texting as friends, but seeing how she went into Full-On Lesbian Instant Commitment mode really killed whatever interest I had. Honestly, I know it's a stereotype but it's so often true with lesbians - two dates and you're expected to be planning to move in. And I would *love* to meet someone and truly take my time getting to know them.

 

I like your idea about treating yourself. I'm going to D.C. in a couple of weeks with friends, and that will be nice and a little distraction while she's globe-trotting with her husband.

[BreakingWave]

BTD,

 

Yes, I am a Christian and I am aware of the Biblical prohibitions on adultery. Believe me, I have lost sleep over the aspects of this relationship that have caused me to fall short of my own moral and ethical standards. I suppose it isn't true repentance unless you change the behavior. But I am grateful for the non-judgmental support that I receive here from other women (and men) who have found themselves in similar situations.

 

BW

[BreakingWave]

Birdies,

 

I understand where you're coming from. I suppose for me, it still seems so highly unlikely that anyone will find out. Because she's never been with a woman and has been in a straight marriage for so long, I don't think it's going to occur to anyone on her end to look deeply into why she's spending time with me. As far as our friends group, they're all straight women who also hang out with me so it won't look odd to them that she does, too.

 

I also realize that I may be coming from a place of great naivete. It is possible that it will somehow come out (no pun intended!) even though I cannot currently imagine how. And I honestly don't know what would happen at that point. I am not worried about myself as much as her. She has far more to lose than I do. There are moments when, like probably everyone who's ever been the other woman or man, I think it's the push she needs to realize she really wants to be with me. But I'm probably just as wrong as 99 percent of them were, so I'm certainly not doing anything to push it to light unless and until she's ready.

 

BW

[BreakingWave]

She's had two major blowouts with the H lately and I've been there to listen to her talk about both, including her admission that "I almost grabbed my keys and left," without giving too much commentary. It's hard to resist the urge to criticize her BH when he's clearly being an *******, but I am aware that I have zero right considering what I'm doing with his wife behind his back. I'm also aware that he is, no matter what is going on with them, the man she married and the man she chooses to stay married to day after day. So if I really spoke my mind about all the ways I think he's an ass, it's highly likely she would at least subconsciously view that as a criticism of her or her judgment.

 

But since she's about to be gone for a few weeks, we had tentative plans to hang out today after I got home from work (doing summer school.) She mentioned wanting to see me before I left. I said I wanted to kiss her and she sent me a really cute video of herself blowing me a kiss. So things were *good.* Then came the major fight last night, and today she never responded to my text about leaving work. I texted an hour later basically asking if I was still going to see her, and she mentioned being at home taking care of some things in advance of their trip. I said "ok, so maybe later or are you going to have to stay home for the night?"

 

It's been almost 2 hours. No response. Not even a ****ing "I'm sorry I couldn't make it" or "let's reschedule for tomorrow." And she's leaving Thursday. I'm *pissed.*

[BreakingWave]

TL/DR right at the top: This post is long and kind of rambles, but I'm hoping to hear from others about the moments or events that helped you see your A more clearly for what it was, and how you reconciled those truths with what you *felt* and *wanted.*

 

Now for those of you saints patient enough to read the whole thing...

 

You know that old phrase about "the fog of war" referring to it being very difficult to see things clearly when you're in an emotionally-charged, high stakes situation? I know everyone on this board can relate to that to some degree or another. My first post was even called, "Clarity is so hard to find" because I could acknowledge within myself that I didn't see everything very clearly. I can't say that I do now, but certain things are starting to become clear and I can't ignore them.

 

Maya Angelou has a quote I love: "When someone shows you who they are, believe them." I've had a very hard time believing who my AP shows me she is sometimes, because like all of us she is a complex person with many different traits, and the person she 'shows me' is not always the same. That's not necessarily a criticism - we're all capable of doing decent things and indecent things; capable of loving and of withholding love; capable of lying and of telling the truth.

 

But lately I've been really thinking about how I need to believe what she *tells* me about our relationship and how much value she places on me. She shows rather than tells, because these things are all based on her actions. And this is what is finally becoming clear:

 

* She does not consider me a priority, but merely someone she'll see if it's convenient and doesn't interfere with any of her other obligations;

 

* She does not envision me as a partner she could ever be proud to be with publicly, even if she were single (her image is important to her, and the same sex nature of our relationship is intimidating, as she was raised in a deeply conservative Catholic environment and carries a lot of that "what will people think?" guilt with her even though she doesn't personally feel being gay is in any way wrong;

 

* She has no problem inviting me to family functions where I'll spend the entire time watching her play happy couple with her husband - I used to think this was because she wanted to be around me as much as possible, and while that might be part of it I think the fact that she imagines I would actually enjoy such occasions to be willful blindness - she asked me to keep July 4 clear so I could come to her family celebration, and I can't imagine worse torture though I genuinely like every member of her family though have not been particularly fond of her H, even before the affair started;

 

* Today, we had the first chance to see each other in a week and she only wanted to meet for lunch somewhere public. I'd have much preferred 2 hours in private but am sick and tired of having to *ask* for that sort of thing;

 

* She never tells me she misses me or loves me, except as a casual goodbye in front of other people - never during intimacy;

 

* She is noncommittal whenever I ask her to plan weekend trips away, saying it would "look funny" though it absolutely wouldn't. We've been friends for years and who the hell would question a girls' weekend away?

 

* She constantly brings up H to me and talks about their plans to buy a boat, redo their kitchen, put in new floors, go on vacation, look for another home - stuff a person even vaguely considering leaving their marriage would not be doing or talking about all the time.

 

Anyway. I'm just torn up about all this. I love her deeply, and I think (I know I'm not the first OW/OM to try to convince myself of this) she loves me deeply but is staying where she is out of fear - fear of leaving her safe, pretty secure situation. And ultimately, that's her decision to make. I can't be brave enough for both of us. I can't try hard enough for both of us. I can't give her the kick in the ass she needs to make decisions about her own life, and increasingly... I don't want to. She needs to do that for herself, and I'm finally seeing through the 'fog of war' and understanding that she simply isn't going to do it.

 

She is a knockout, drop dead gorgeous woman. Dresses like she just walked out of a magazine. Highly educated, speaks four languages, well-traveled, hilarious. Essentially she's the woman I have always wanted to find. She is a generous friend, amazing mother, and generally decent person. This A is the first and only time she's strayed after raising 7 kids and fostering over a dozen others. And she can be *extremely* tender and loving, but those occasions are few and far between. I was hoping that the summer would give us a lot more time together, days when we could be alone and intimate (not just physically, though that is important and it sucks feeling like that isn't as much of a priority to her) but it hasn't worked out that way.

 

I'm trying to rediscover the things I really enjoyed about my life before the A started but I'm just so numb. I don't know what to do. The easy answer is, of course, let her go. Go NC and get on with my life. I just... have zero desire to do a damn thing. I'm so numb, and I've been slipping into a deeper and deeper depression, complete with suicidal ideation. I'm not too concerned about myself because I *am* close with my parents and have other close friends, so those thoughts are fleeting and aren't what I consider serious. I've looked at options for therapy but simply can't afford them - even with insurance, we're looking at $150/200 a session and that's far outside my current realm of possibility.

 

I've given thought to confiding in a friend or two that I'm very close with, but they're all close with her as well. I know they'd be loving and not judgmental - perhaps that's a lot to assume, but I feel safe in that assumption. I just feel like doing so would be selling her out, because I promised I would protect her (i.e. keep the secret.) Also, right now I am confident that we would never get 'caught.' That confidence would go down a lot if I start talking about it. Thank God for this board; the one place I can speak anonymously and get wonderful support from women and men who know what I am going through. This has been a literal lifesaver for me.

[MidnightBlue1980]

There were definitely many, many signs that I was creating way more of a relationship than there really was and that he was using the words "I love you" to continue to get what he wanted from me. However I refused to see it at the time and it only comes with hindsight, how crystal clear it all was, how totally and completely unloved I was. Unloved, heck un-respected. Not even worth any consideration, just a thing to use and throw away.

 

It took time to realize that and it took A LOT of time to get past it - the anger, the shame, the self loathing. But it IS all gone now. It's not like you wake up one day and you feel fabulous, it happens slowly and one day when you are not paying attention, something happens to make you realize you are totally over the whole experience, to the extent where you can no longer call up any emotions about him/her.

[BigBlueSky]

Hi BW, I'm glad that you are starting to see your MW's actions for what they are. I think it's such a hard place to care deeply for each other but to know that actions aren't able to back it up. I'm at a place where I know I need to let go. I don't necessarily want to but I know it's for the best. I think we have to trust that there are better things for us ahead if we would only let go. Even though there may be love, there is so much hurt and angst tied into relationships like ours. Anyway, I don't have much for advice but I am walking alongside you.

[freengreen]

Its tough isnt it?Letting go what you love(d).

 

However isnt love supposed to make you grow in someway..?, if it is torturing you this way, either its not love (addiction?)or ...there isnt any value for your love at the place you are putting it. Feel proud that you are working for yourself now. You are not going to feel any better for a while but it will teach you lessons and you will come out be a wiser person.

 

We are all on the same road, some a bit further, some yet to get that far...one thing, you are faaaar from being alone.

[Birdies]

I dunno, she sounds a lot more like a typical married affair partner just looking for ego boosts and extra validation, than a married affair partner who is also desperately in love with their OW.

 

I had a married affair partner who was in love with me and I was also a married affair partner in love with him. I felt it then, and I know it now because we've been together for about a year and a half now post-affair and divorces, and it still feels the same as it always did. Here's how an affair like that compares to your situation, using your list. I'm not trying to be harsh, but I want to note the discrepancies. (Note that I do not see any of my actions as justifiable just because it was "true love" - an affair is still wrong no matter what. But it's even sadder and more pointless in this kind of instance, when it doesn't appear that she loves you or prioritizes you, and certainly will never run away with you.)

 

* She does not consider me a priority, but merely someone she'll see if it's convenient and doesn't interfere with any of her other obligations; We flaked out on many commitments to spend time together - literally any chance possible and probably to our detriment in terms of being gone from work, etc.

 

* She does not envision me as a partner she could ever be proud to be with publicly, even if she were single (her image is important to her, and the same sex nature of our relationship is intimidating, as she was raised in a deeply conservative Catholic environment and carries a lot of that "what will people think?" guilt with her even though she doesn't personally feel being gay is in any way wrong; The same-sex shame is somewhat specific to your situation, and you're right that it further diminishes any chance of you two ending up together. In my case, I always thought, and told him, that he'd be the perfect partner - and I heard the same from him. It's pretty much true now in practice. We are happily in love, our lives fit together very well, and our families and many friends have been very welcoming, even though obviously they don't condone how things began.

 

* She has no problem inviting me to family functions where I'll spend the entire time watching her play happy couple with her husband - I used to think this was because she wanted to be around me as much as possible, and while that might be part of it I think the fact that she imagines I would actually enjoy such occasions to be willful blindness - she asked me to keep July 4 clear so I could come to her family celebration, and I can't imagine worse torture though I genuinely like every member of her family though have not been particularly fond of her H, even before the affair started; We were only forced to be around each other's spouses a couple times, and it was torture for both of us - both from knowing the discomfort and jealousy and pain it would bring the AP, and also the extreme guilt of subjecting our spouses to such a cruel situation right under their noses without them knowing. For her to think that you would WANT to watch her play happy wife is just really tone-deaf and callous at best, or cruel at worst.

And to not be concerned about protecting her husband from being around her illicit lover is very disturbing.

 

* Today, we had the first chance to see each other in a week and she only wanted to meet for lunch somewhere public. I'd have much preferred 2 hours in private but am sick and tired of having to *ask* for that sort of thing; We took every possible opportunity possible to be alone together, not to be physically intimate per se, but to be able to act as much of a real couple as possible in the ways you can't do in public with the fear of seeing people you know.

 

* She never tells me she misses me or loves me, except as a casual goodbye in front of other people - never during intimacy; So she doesn't miss you or love you, AND she can't even be bothered to lie to you about it. We told each other those things every day or many times a day, and meant it 100%.

 

* She is noncommittal whenever I ask her to plan weekend trips away, saying it would "look funny" though it absolutely wouldn't. We've been friends for years and who the hell would question a girls' weekend away? Unlike most affair partners, you two have an actual excuse to go away on a lovers' retreat, and she still doesn't want to? That is not a good sign. We had very, very, very few chances to spend a night or a couple days together, and we would look forward to them like it was the arrival of paradise on earth.

 

* She constantly brings up H to me and talks about their plans to buy a boat, redo their kitchen, put in new floors, go on vacation, look for another home - stuff a person even vaguely considering leaving their marriage would not be doing or talking about all the time. Again, tone-deaf and callous at best, or cruel at worst. DEFINITELY not something that anyone wanting to leave their marriage would do. She's told you in words and in actions that she won't leave. I hope you begin to listen.

 

***HUGS*** I'm really sorry this is happening to you. This relationship is hurting you. The sooner you cut it off and focus on YOU, the sooner you will start to heal. You can do it!

 

As for therapy, do you live anywhere near a college? I would assume you live in a big town or city, if therapy is $150-200 (mine was $100 in a smaller college town). The psychology / therapy programs often off free or extremely discounted sessions with graduate students - can you look into that? I really think you need someone to talk to and someone to help you come up with a strategy to move on in your life! xox

Edited June 12, 2017 by Birdies

[BreakingWave]

Thanks, Birdies. I guess for me the difficult thing is that in the beginning, we were very much like what you describe. She went out of her way to see me - she would even stop by my apartment before work just to give me a kiss, spending only three minutes with me because we really wanted to see each other that badly. She would make a ton of two-minute calls if they were the only two minutes she could find. That intense attention lasted for about two months, and it's been push-and-pull since then. Many times she's admitted she wants it to be like it was in the beginning, but she feels ravaged by guilt and knows she should be letting me go, not holding on tight. Meanwhile I would give anything to have it be like it was in the beginning, when she wasn't afraid to show me how much she cares.

 

I am so confused right now. Half of me thinks she's really cold and callous, as you say, and the other half sincerely believes that's an act she puts on to protect the truly loving partner she wants to be but is too afraid to be. And... right now I'm wrestling with whether the reasons she won't be who I need her to be even matters.

 

Thanks for the suggestion about university mental health services. Someone else mentioned that to me and I will look into it, though the nearest university is about an hour away.

 

I am truly glad your A has turned into a successful relationship. I have been trying to find reasons to believe mine will, too, but I am clearly kidding myself. People like me don't get happy endings.

[freengreen]

People like me don't get happy endings.

Of all the right reasons..you found a wrong one.

[jenkins95]

Of all the right reasons..you found a wrong one.

 

I agree with freengreen. (((BreakingWave))) Please don't think like that. You will get your happy ending. It may not be with her, but the right person is out there for you.

 

As a former cheater, I totally get her behaviour, cruel though it is. At first for the cheater, the A is pure fun and excitement and you feel a million dollars. But if you've got a conscience, any kind of conscience, guilt and realisation catch up with you and you are forced to confront the reality of what you are doing and all its implications. She may very well love you, possibly even more than how she did in those early, care-free days, but her conscience has caught up with, her feelings frighten her, and she is finding it very difficult to reconcile all this with the reality of her situation - that she is married with children. Her minbd has become a breeding ground for worry, paranoia, conflict and confusion - been there myself - it's not nice.

 

She has developed a connection with you and she doesn't want to lose you, but she is also terrified of losing and destroying all of them. Conflicted. That is a word that describes most married waywards - very conflicted. Sometimes it becomes so overwhelming that you just want to escape it rather than properly deal with it, and push-pull behaviour is common when that happens. Perhaps the lesbian angle in your particular case makes her even more conflicted. Most waywards worry about how they will be perceived if they run off with an affair partner of the opposite sex. I imagine this is only amplified when they consider running off with an affair partner of the same sex. Imagine all the gossip that would generate in their community.

 

Sadly, often (usually) there are no winners and rarely are there happy endings in affairs. I'm so pleased for Birdies that she got her happy ending and I wish her and her new H all the very best of luck in the world. But even Birdies will tell you that she is not a "winner" in the normal sense. She often posts of the devastation that her A caused and how she still lives with the guilt and aftermath, and will probably have to deal with this for a long time to come. Birdies is such a valuable member of these forums - she had a "successful" affair, but she doesn't wrap her posts in unicorns and rainbows - she tells it how it is, and it's usually messy whatever the outcome.

 

I wish you all the very best BW. Crossing my fingers that you will get your happy ending one day with the right woman - you really deserve it.

 

Stay with us, keep posting.

Edited June 13, 2017 by jenkins95

[BreakingWave]

Freen - I understand that there are a million *good* reasons to end an affair and right now I'm focusing on the negative. It is currently impossible for me to do anything else . I'm spiraling fast into a very dark place. I don't want to kill myself but I *do* want to hurt. I want to punish myself for being so stupid, for allowing this to happen. I believe I deserve to suffer for what I have done to her, to myself, to people who will never even know it happened.

 

I have allowed myself to feel like such a worthless sack of **** because of her sudden changes in behavior and this push-and-pull. I have always struggled with emotional intimacy and self-esteem, having spent my entire life with other people trying to make me feel "less than" and unworthy of a happy life. Nothing in my life has ever made me feel smaller, less important, or more unworthy of love than this A.