MM left wife, and now me

[Birdies]

Well I for one don't believe he was just using you for sex. I think he does probably love you, or at least *thinks* he loves you, and there's a big part of him that wants to be with you. But unfortunately, he's a big wuss and is conflict avoidant. He doesn't want to hurt his wife, he doesn't want to hurt his kid, he doesn't know how to address the serious problems in his marriage - so instead of truly fixing them, or getting a divorce, he waffles around having affairs but never getting the balls to actually choose a new path in life.

 

Ultimately, does it really matter? You know he's a wuss, you know he's conflict avoidant, you know he's being truly horribly deceptive and cruel to his wife by trying to reconcile without telling her the full truth or that he's still trying to keep you on the side (which IS what he's doing btw!). You've dodged a bullet here IMO. Just rip the bandaid. Go as LC as you possibly can and it will get better. You'll probably look back soon and wonder what in the hell you were thinking!

[Rebelnoir]

This is so true.

 

Let's face it, lying is part of life. I'll bet we've all done it today. Often it's one of the first thigs we say in the morning when we are asked "How are you?". "Fine!" we say automatically, when in reality most of us, by virtue of the fact that we are LS members are probably feeling anything but fine.

 

When I got to work this morning my boss asked me what I thought of a certain report. "Very good, I said. Covers most of what we need to say. Although the last section could do with a bit of editing and tidying up generally." Privately, I was thinking "Report? What f****** report! S***, was I supposed to read a report?"

 

We've all been there right guys? - and the world as we know it would fall apart without "necessary" lying!

 

But most people know where to stop - usually at the point where lies will have a negative impact on others. MMs/MWs don't have this boundary - they can't have it. They need to depend on lying to maintain their double life.

 

Take me! I am considered a pretty decent, good, nice guy (and I'm sure at some level, Rebel's MM is also a genuinely nice guy). Indeed, I got to 40 without ever really having done anything "bad", always tried to help, be kind and respectful, support people and make a positive difference. I only really ever lied in the humourous way that I illustrated above.

 

All that changed when the A started. Lying became normal and necessary. It got to the stage where the very fabric of my reality became so warped that what was actually true and false was irrelevant. All that mattered was using the right combination of words, true or false (usually a mix) to whatever combination of people I had to, to manipulate them and maintain the life I was living.

 

I lied to my W, OW, children, parents, friends, colleagues, strangers, myself....my dog. It didn't matter. It was a means to an end - like the whole of life was a game and that I was in a suspended reality that had to be fed with bull****. Every morning I would wake up thinking that the mess I had created was all a bad dream, only to be hit by the reality of it a split second later.

 

Another five minutes and the web of lies would start again:

 

"Dam, I'm going to be late in the office again tonight. We have a crazy workload on at the moment."

 

And once I was in that zone, I felt little remorse or sense of wrong-doing. I just had to concentrate on my own narrative so that I could repeat it when scrutinised. The lies happened almost automatically without thought, like I was just some pawn in a game controlled by external forces.

 

NOW I see it! Oh yes, now I do! Now I see how cruel and pathetic and selfish I was. I simply cannot believe the monster I was. I am now (hopefully) back to that good guy again...albeit a very damaged, fragile version. And I will never, ever go down that path again. If you've got any kind of conscience, it does eventually start to eat away at you, which is why sometimes, the WS experiences a sense of relief when it all hits the fan and hell is officially released. Post affair, we tend to romanticise the A in our minds - but the reality of it was that, especially towards the end, I could barely sleep at night, paranoia and fear and dread eating away at me, twitching nervously every time a door opened or a phone went - is today going to be the day my W finds out?

 

Sorry to thread-jack guys!

 

Just another illustration that affairs are just such a bad situation to be in for everyone involved - they destroy some and turn others into unrecognisable monsters. Next time I feel like a little adventure, I'll take up skiing or something!

 

My MM seemed to develop this paranoia after he left his wife, both times. It was really weird actually seeing him twitching the curtains whenever he heard a car. Mainly because his wife would turn up with the child banging the door demanding to be let in at all times of night, or threaten to send people to physically hurt either me or him.

 

I like your posts as they give me an insight into what he might be thinking. Thank you.

[Rebelnoir]

Well I for one don't believe he was just using you for sex. I think he does probably love you, or at least *thinks* he loves you, and there's a big part of him that wants to be with you. But unfortunately, he's a big wuss and is conflict avoidant. He doesn't want to hurt his wife, he doesn't want to hurt his kid, he doesn't know how to address the serious problems in his marriage - so instead of truly fixing them, or getting a divorce, he waffles around having affairs but never getting the balls to actually choose a new path in life.

 

Ultimately, does it really matter? You know he's a wuss, you know he's conflict avoidant, you know he's being truly horribly deceptive and cruel to his wife by trying to reconcile without telling her the full truth or that he's still trying to keep you on the side (which IS what he's doing btw!). You've dodged a bullet here IMO. Just rip the bandaid. Go as LC as you possibly can and it will get better. You'll probably look back soon and wonder what in the hell you were thinking!

 

Honestly I think your assessment of it is right. I believe he loves me, or that he thinks he does. I honestly believe if his wife had just been a bit less persistent and let him have regular contact with his child he wouldn't be back home right now (I'm not blaming her for reacting the way she did, it's totally understandable in some ways, I just believe this to be true). I have seen so many messages he sent her telling her the marriage was over, that he loves me etc. I've spoken to his (and her) closest friends on numerous occasions and they all told me he loves me. But yes he is weak, can't make decisions and doesn't want to be the cause of any hurt.

 

I think right now I'm hoping he isn't trying to keep me as a bit on the side. Deep down I know that he is. And if I'm honest there is a small part of me that is so tempted as at least I don't lose him completely and maybe that will be enough to make him leave?! If he sees that he can't let me go. But the bigger part of me knows that isn't true. He would continue to have his cake and eat it. If I let this continue after he's told me he's going back then I know I'm letting myself down and I'm opening up a whole new world of hurt. The only way I coped for a year was because he was adamant he would leave.

[Rebelnoir]

Thank you for all of the messages here. It really helps getting some honesty and a reality check. It's what I need right now.

 

We spoke again today over messenger as he wasn't in the office. He basically told me how badly he had wanted us to work, how much he loved me and that he just couldnt deal with not seeing his daughter. He said he doesn't know if it's harder spending time with me or missing me when we've been NC. He then asked if we could talk tomorrow and maybe go for lunch. I asked if he was going to change his mind about reconciling and he said he doesn't know, at this moment probably not.

 

Just to be very clear, I know his words mean nothing. His actions are telling me what I need to know. but its making it harder hearing this stuff. I just don't understand why he is continuing to say it when he's seemingly made a decision. Does he really want to continue an affair and risk her finding out again?! Or does he genuinely think we can try and be friends. I'm trying to figure out my motivations for speaking to him, and it comes down to part of me wanting him to change his mind and the other part of me just being weak...it's harder to stay away than it is to give in, in the moment at least. Afterwards though m, speaking to him makes me feel worse. I guess in that way I'm no better than him because I'm just not being strong right now. The problem is he is giving me tiny snippets of hope. Intentional or not, he is. I need to be strong enough to not accept that. Instead I'm grasping at them and then, when logical me kicks in and tells me they're nothing but crumbs, it hurts all over again.

 

I don't know if I'll go for lunch with him tomorrow. I want to but I know it's an awful idea.

 

On the plus side when I saw him yesterday it felt different. Everytime he fed me a line I imagined you all bringing me back to reality. I just need to learn to ACT on what i now know to be true, if that makes sense.

 

After he and I spoke I had this overwhelming urge to message his wife and tell her the truth. I wanted to hurt him and I partly wanted her to walk away. In reality I don't think she would. She doesn't want to let him go. I also don't want to hurt her anymore than we have already, and any message telling her the truth would do that. I also don't want him to have a reason to hate me, which he would.

 

 

I'm very tempted to just ignore him from now on, but I don't know that I will. I want to. But it's like I have zero sense of self preservation the moment I actually see him. Part of the problem is I'm still trying to act in a way that I think will get him to change his mind. So when I think about NC I'm really thinking, will this make him realise he can't live without me and therefore change his mind! And I think coming from that place NC will never work. I want to be out of this headspace so badly. I want to hate him and be angry and allow myself to act in my best interests. I want to have pride and self esteem. I want to act on the advice that you are all giving me, the same advice i'd give to a friend in the same situation. I just don't know how

Edited May 17, 2017 by Rebelnoir

[jenkins95]

Well I for one don't believe he was just using you for sex. I think he does probably love you, or at least *thinks* he loves you, and there's a big part of him that wants to be with you. But unfortunately, he's a big wuss and is conflict avoidant. He doesn't want to hurt his wife, he doesn't want to hurt his kid, he doesn't know how to address the serious problems in his marriage - so instead of truly fixing them, or getting a divorce, he waffles around having affairs but never getting the balls to actually choose a new path in life.

 

Ultimately, does it really matter? You know he's a wuss, you know he's conflict avoidant, you know he's being truly horribly deceptive and cruel to his wife by trying to reconcile without telling her the full truth or that he's still trying to keep you on the side (which IS what he's doing btw!). You've dodged a bullet here IMO. Just rip the bandaid. Go as LC as you possibly can and it will get better. You'll probably look back soon and wonder what in the hell you were thinking!

 

I totally agree with Birdies here. I was in his shoes once and I'm certain that it wasn't just for sex. I'm quite sure he has genuine love for you.

 

But when you are a MM with responsibilities, love alone often isn't enough. I'm proof of that.

 

One of the major reasons I stayed was for my kids.... But it wasn't the only reason. If I'd had no love for my wife, I wouldn't have stayed. I knew there was something there and I wanted to work hard to get it back. Of course, I played this down to the OW and very much concentrated on the kids angle. It's less hurtful that way..... and yes, it's easier for cowards to hold back on things that are hard to say. I suspect this may be very similar for your MM and secretly he may hope that he gets the spark back with his wife. I'm so sorry if this hurts.... I'm simply calling it as I see it based on my own experience. I repeat - this doesn't change the fact that he has genuine love for you and probably always will. I'm sure he'll never forget you and will often wonder what if. But he's made his choice and you have to take care of you now. However painful it is, I recommend the absolute minimum contract you can possibly get away with Rebel.

 

And well done - you write lovely messages​ and I feel your strength coming back in your posts. We're here. Keep it up! x

Edited May 17, 2017 by jenkins95

[stillafool]

If you really want him to leave you alone just tell him you will contact his wife if he contacts you again. Try it.

[wmacbride]

I agree with this. Even if the glue is just their child (which is what he maintains), that's enough. He's made his choice.

 

Thank you for all of the messages here. It really helps getting some honesty and a reality check. It's what I need right now.

 

We spoke again today over messenger as he wasn't in the office. He basically told me how badly he had wanted us to work, how much he loved me and that he just couldnt deal with not seeing his daughter. He said he doesn't know if it's harder spending time with me or missing me when we've been NC. He then asked if we could talk tomorrow and maybe go for lunch. I asked if he was going to change his mind about reconciling and he said he doesn't know, at this moment probably not.

 

Just to be very clear, I know his words mean nothing. His actions are telling me what I need to know. but its making it harder hearing this stuff. I just don't understand why he is continuing to say it when he's seemingly made a decision. Does he really want to continue an affair and risk her finding out again?! Or does he genuinely think we can try and be friends. I'm trying to figure out my motivations for speaking to him, and it comes down to part of me wanting him to change his mind and the other part of me just being weak...it's harder to stay away than it is to give in, in the moment at least. Afterwards though m, speaking to him makes me feel worse. I guess in that way I'm no better than him because I'm just not being strong right now. The problem is he is giving me tiny snippets of hope. Intentional or not, he is. I need to be strong enough to not accept that. Instead I'm grasping at them and then, when logical me kicks in and tells me they're nothing but crumbs, it hurts all over again.

 

I don't know if I'll go for lunch with him tomorrow. I want to but I know it's an awful idea.

 

On the plus side when I saw him yesterday it felt different. Everytime he fed me a line I imagined you all bringing me back to reality. I just need to learn to ACT on what i now know to be true, if that makes sense.

 

After he and I spoke I had this overwhelming urge to message his wife and tell her the truth. I wanted to hurt him and I partly wanted her to walk away. In reality I don't think she would. She doesn't want to let him go. I also don't want to hurt her anymore than we have already, and any message telling her the truth would do that. I also don't want him to have a reason to hate me, which he would.

 

 

I'm very tempted to just ignore him from now on, but I don't know that I will. I want to. But it's like I have zero sense of self preservation the moment I actually see him. Part of the problem is I'm still trying to act in a way that I think will get him to change his mind. So when I think about NC I'm really thinking, will this make him realise he can't live without me and therefore change his mind! And I think coming from that place NC will never work. I want to be out of this headspace so badly. I want to hate him and be angry and allow myself to act in my best interests. I want to have pride and self esteem. I want to act on the advice that you are all giving me, the same advice i'd give to a friend in the same situation. I just don't know how

 

He's using a strange logic.

 

If he doesn't want to lose time with his daughter, and if he doesn't want to hurt his wife and child, then why did he engage in the on behavior that had a 99.999999% chnace of hurting them if they found out? Where was his love for his child and desire to not hurt his wife when he started the affair?

 

The truth about him is that he will always put himself first. He's willing to hurt you, hurt his wife and hurt his child because he can't bring himself to end his marriage.he'd rather subject his wife to a sham of a marriage and force his daughter to grow up in an unhappy home than be honest.

 

That's conflict avoidance on steroids. I expect he's got an idea in the back of his mind that he's hoping his wife will be miserable and pull the plug so it won't be his fault.

 

The alternative to this is that he's lying about an awful lot to you. I don't know the guy, ad you do. What do you think?

 

If he is this conflict avoidant, he would likely carry that into a relationship wit you, unless he had a huge amount of therapy to learn better behaviors. I'm not saying "once a cheater, always a cheater" or that he's a terrible person, more that he is who he is. Do you really feel he could change?

[HadMeOverABarrel]

This

 

You've put your finger on something I had been feeling but couldn't quite grasp.

 

This is part of why it hurts so much. I love him so much I couldn't see a life without him. In many ways I still can't. I'm trying hard to see him for who he is, and particularly who he has been recently. But I feel like I'm losing the man I love and the future we had planned all in one go.

 

When he sat with me and talked about a future I believed him because, like you, I was all in. I never lied to him. I never had conflicting priorities or emotions. I gave my all to him and completely believed my life would be what we planned.

 

When he sent me links to houses for us to buy, when we planned holidays, picked names for our future children and discussed marriage I was completely in. When we met each other's friends and made financial decisions on the basis of our future life I was all in. When we bought items and decided what we would keep for our future home I was 100% committed. When he was sat on the sofa with me telling me how he had been watching me watch a film and had though about how this was all he wanted, I wanted the same. Everytime we made plans for the future, discussed holidays and honeymoons I honestly thought they would happen. Every single time I said I loved him I meant it with every bit of my being. And every promise I made him, every compromise I said I would make I had thought through and was prepared to give.

 

I believed him when he looked me in the eyes and told me I'm the love of his life. How he would look at me first thing in the morning and tell me I was beautiful with no make up and my hair messed up. How he discovered everything I hate about myself and made me feel accepted. He knew the bits of me I hated and touched them till I was ok. How he told me his flaws and insecurities and wants and needs. Everytime he would wake up in the night and half asleep tell me how happy he was I was there.

 

It all seemed so real because it was completely real to me. This was a man that I loved so much, so completely. Everything I said I meant, I was honest with him. I never told him a single lie or had to fake anything. I never contemplated he would make another choice because it never seemed like he could. He made me believe it wasn't even an option.

 

It's so hard to accept that whilst all of this was going on he maybe wasn't so sure. And that he was lying to me. Because I was never lying and I completely believed that would be my life. Our life. Maybe it was naive but honestly when we were together, I never doubted him or his intentions. He gave me no reason to.

 

So I understand your pain. This has been a hard post to write, remembering the good stuff.

 

It's hard to explain how I reconciled the above with the fact he is married. I can try and explain that if anyone's interested. But it's confusing to me and so may not make sense.

 

As an aside, I was reading over my initial post and realised I'd completely missed something. The first time he left was before she found the tickets. He told her he was unhappy and was leaving and went to stay with family. This was what we had planned. It was when he was back visiting his child a week later that she found the tickets, confronted him and he confessed to the A. I don't know how I misremembered that. When I thought about it this morning it gave me some hope. I though wow everyone must be wrong, he left because he loved me, not because he was kicked out. Then I realised two things. Firstly he is a liar, so who knows the truth of it. Secondly, everything that's happened since contradicts it. At least I'm not allowing myself to get carried away by hope anymore.

 

I shed a couple tears reading this. STAY STRONG!!! (((HUGS)))

[HadMeOverABarrel]

So we've spoken today. He is going back. He wants his old life back. Although 'in any other circumstance he would be with me'. They did have sex while they were away, you were all right. But apparently it wasn't as good as me and him. He doesn't love her but he wants his daughter. They're going to have counselling and try and make it work. But he wants us to be friends, he told me I look good etc etc. It's all more of the same, him wanting me to be there because it feels good for him I guess. The problem is I'm tempted. I'm so tempted to just slip into being friends because a part of me wants him to change his mind. I know that's stupid but I do.

 

DO NOT BE FRIENDS. You know this is not possible. I totally get what you are thinking. Give yourself a chance to breath. Being "friends" will get in the way of that. Please do this for yourself.

 

Quick story if it helps: I also considered that maybe xMM and I could just be friends (even after I was months into NC). I talked to my counselor about this. One day in her office, I was reading one of the emails I had written him to her (after I was saying maybe we could be friends). I wrote how I felt about him, how attracted I was to him. In response to him calling us "friends," I wrote I can't be his "friend" nor did I want to. Then I listed off some more-than-friends activities I wanted to experience with him. When I read the part about I can't be his friend, my counselor's eyebrows raised, she smiled and said, "See? You can't be friends." Ugh!

 

NC is tough, but it is the ONLY way. Sending you love and peace!

[ice3784]

We are so similar. I trusted every single word and was fully committed. i understand how you feel and i am going through the pain now

[freengreen]

I know. I guess letting go of somebody you love, no matter how toxic the love is, is excruciating. Especially when that person swears they love you so much. It's just a hard place to be and I can't seem to act in my own best interests despite knowing that's what I need to do right now. I have no concern for myself and that's scary

There were times I beleived him more that he did in himself, why? seach me. But after it all got off, I kept looking for people who I knew cared about me and thought all the times they hurt me, everyone does hurt you sometime but the people who really want good for you ,take the shock before they make you bump. They dont lie nor they wont make false promises, they are genuine and they will show it. If they know they will need to hurt you invitibilly, they make it as less painful as possible.

 

That is what love is... not just make decissions throw under the bus and then plaster words on top of it.

 

You will learn and live . Its tough for you now but it will happen and we are all here . Please, have a concern for yourself .

[freengreen]

And, I think he is just using his daughter to bail him out. The little one was there all along, when he promised his love, when he sent you pictures of houses you would live together in and when you both were discussing names for your future children.

 

My exMM had a PA before I entered, mine was an EA with him, I asked him why did he leave a woman who was ready to take care of his child and loved him, why he left someone whom he loved...and why he stayed back with someone whom he lost connection with.. his answer ' for my daughter'... really?is there anything he wont use?. He complains about his wife all the time, but chose her, he loves OW but he leaves her. It was a typical coward and a oppurtunist personality.

 

I actually feel bad talking so negative about someone I beleived was a brilliant man. How truth hurts sigh.

[Jemima1234]

Hope you are doing ok. Did you go to lunch? No judgement here if you did.

[Rebelnoir]

Hope you are doing ok. Did you go to lunch? No judgement here if you did.

 

Thank you for asking no I didn't go for lunch, i made plans with somebody else but MM had to go home anyway. He is going home everyday to check in with his wife. We talked a lot though throughout the week. He's saying the same old stuff about how much he loves me. He asked me to think about being friends. I've decided I really don't want that. Honestly the last month or so has made me see him in a new light and I don't think I want a friendship with him, let alone a relationship.

 

I think it's pretty ****ty of him to continue talking to me when he's decided to reconcile. He is making a big effort to spend time with me when we're at work, but that's so easy for him. And I can see he's doing exactly what everyone on here said...he's keeping me hanging by saying things like 'I don't know what I want', 'sometimes I think I've made a mistake', 'I love you', 'I worry I've caused too much damage for me and you to work' etc just incase things don't work out with his wife or he wants to continue the affair. He keeps asking if I'm ok, and telling me he was sort of ok before he saw me this week, but now he isn't as he loves me and can see how much he's hurt me. Again, more words!

 

He never logs on to our office messaging system but I asked him to on Tuesday so I could ask him something. He then logged on every day. When I asked him why he said it was because he thought I might be logged on too so we could talk. It's just little things like that which bother me, as I can see what he's trying to do. And it's so unfair on me, his wife. Everyone except him really, as he gets to have his cake and eat it if he keeps me in his life. When I told him that he said 'I can't help it, I love you and I miss you and I want to spend time with you. It makes me happy... Being friends means at least we are in each other's lives'. Just ridiculous. At one point if said something about 'when I get married'. He then said will I not be invited to your wedding?! Again ridiculous. It's like he lives in a fantasy world. How did I not see this before?

 

A few people on here have commented how men will do and say things for sex. I wanted to believe MM was different and he does love me. So I decided to test out whether he was just after sex. This wasn't a thought out thing that I'd planned, but when he asked if we could be friends for like the fifth time I asked what he would say if I said I wanted to continue the physical side of things. To be very clear, I really don't...sex is important to me. I just wanted him to finally have some integrity, show me he's the man I thought he was and say no! But he said he thought it was a bad idea but then said he'd definitely think about it. I know I set him up to fail really but I needed to know whether he was just a good man in a bad situation or genuinely a rubbish man, and I think I have my answer. I'm pretty sure he would be prepared to continue the affair but this time with no promises of leaving. He would happily let me waste my life sleeping with him, knowing full well he won't leave.

 

I guess his behaviour this last week has shown me who he truly is. I'm still sad about the end of us but also starting to realise I may have had a lucky escape.

 

There's so many little things he has done that have annoyed me. Overall it wouldn't be a real friendship, as it would be a secret. And it would only be a 'smoke break' friendship. Nothing else outside of work. I know that because he hasn't bothered to contact me since he disappeared from the messaging system on Friday afternoon (he went home halfway through the day). And I just though **** this is how it would be if we are friends. He would be there when it was easy in the office, but if have no right to expect anything more and he wouldn't give it. Very different to how it was before. I want and deserve more than that.

 

This post probably makes no sense, I'm just venting really! But overall I'm honestly in an ok place and preparing to just tell him on Monday I'm done, no friendship, nothing. It's hard to explain but I'm done. I'm bored with him, and this situation, taking up space in my life and my head. When I see him now I don't think of how much I love him, I just see a weak and selfish man who hurts others to suit himself.

[Rebelnoir]

If you really want him to leave you alone just tell him you will contact his wife if he contacts you again. Try it.

 

Yes I will do this. I have kept some of our conversations from this week as i'd deleted everything else. So at least I can do it if needed

[Rebelnoir]

He's using a strange logic.

 

If he doesn't want to lose time with his daughter, and if he doesn't want to hurt his wife and child, then why did he engage in the on behavior that had a 99.999999% chnace of hurting them if they found out? Where was his love for his child and desire to not hurt his wife when he started the affair?

 

The truth about him is that he will always put himself first. He's willing to hurt you, hurt his wife and hurt his child because he can't bring himself to end his marriage.he'd rather subject his wife to a sham of a marriage and force his daughter to grow up in an unhappy home than be honest.

 

That's conflict avoidance on steroids. I expect he's got an idea in the back of his mind that he's hoping his wife will be miserable and pull the plug so it won't be his fault.

 

The alternative to this is that he's lying about an awful lot to you. I don't know the guy, ad you do. What do you think?

 

If he is this conflict avoidant, he would likely carry that into a relationship wit you, unless he had a huge amount of therapy to learn better behaviors. I'm not saying "once a cheater, always a cheater" or that he's a terrible person, more that he is who he is. Do you really feel he could change?

 

I think you're right and he's conflict avoidant. I think if his wife pulled the plug he would be ok with that to be honest as long as he got to see his child. And you're right, if that's true then it would continue with me. I think he'd struggle to change as even though he's made noises about counselling he isn't taking any actual steps to do that, or to instigate any change at all really

[Rebelnoir]

DO NOT BE FRIENDS. You know this is not possible. I totally get what you are thinking. Give yourself a chance to breath. Being "friends" will get in the way of that. Please do this for yourself.

 

Quick story if it helps: I also considered that maybe xMM and I could just be friends (even after I was months into NC). I talked to my counselor about this. One day in her office, I was reading one of the emails I had written him to her (after I was saying maybe we could be friends). I wrote how I felt about him, how attracted I was to him. In response to him calling us "friends," I wrote I can't be his "friend" nor did I want to. Then I listed off some more-than-friends activities I wanted to experience with him. When I read the part about I can't be his friend, my counselor's eyebrows raised, she smiled and said, "See? You can't be friends." Ugh!

 

NC is tough, but it is the ONLY way. Sending you love and peace!

 

Everything you've said is spot on!! I think it's hard for anyone to be friends when feelings are involved and maybe, because of the nature of an A it's even harder because we are used to accepting 'less than' we normally would in a relationship, so I can imagine even a friendship could be enough to provide hope.

[Rebelnoir]

There were times I beleived him more that he did in himself, why? seach me. But after it all got off, I kept looking for people who I knew cared about me and thought all the times they hurt me, everyone does hurt you sometime but the people who really want good for you ,take the shock before they make you bump. They dont lie nor they wont make false promises, they are genuine and they will show it. If they know they will need to hurt you invitibilly, they make it as less painful as possible.

 

That is what love is... not just make decissions throw under the bus and then plaster words on top of it.

 

You will learn and live . Its tough for you now but it will happen and we are all here . Please, have a concern for yourself .

 

Yes you're right this isn't love. And I need to have more concern for myself!

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

This post probably makes no sense, I'm just venting really! But overall I'm honestly in an ok place and preparing to just tell him on Monday I'm done, no friendship, nothing. It's hard to explain but I'm done. I'm bored with him, and this situation, taking up space in my life and my head. When I see him now I don't think of how much I love him, I just see a weak and selfish man who hurts others to suit himself.

 

" Sometimes silence is the best way to let someone know they did something wrong"

"Silence cannot be misquoted"

"Silence speaks volumes"

 

I would tell you from my own experience, that telling him how you can't be friends will go one of two ways - he will use your statement as a sign of weakness and argue back, making his case about why you are wrong to feel the way you do. Or, he will say - you are right - and you will then feel like total crap.

 

Say absolutely nothing. It will send the best message and put you in a place of personal power and strength. Talk to him and you risk handing that strength over to him. Remember, what he wants is to be in control. Don't let him.

[Rebelnoir]

I totally agree with Birdies here. I was in his shoes once and I'm certain that it wasn't just for sex. I'm quite sure he has genuine love for you.

 

But when you are a MM with responsibilities, love alone often isn't enough. I'm proof of that.

 

One of the major reasons I stayed was for my kids.... But it wasn't the only reason. If I'd had no love for my wife, I wouldn't have stayed. I knew there was something there and I wanted to work hard to get it back. Of course, I played this down to the OW and very much concentrated on the kids angle. It's less hurtful that way..... and yes, it's easier for cowards to hold back on things that are hard to say. I suspect this may be very similar for your MM and secretly he may hope that he gets the spark back with his wife. I'm so sorry if this hurts.... I'm simply calling it as I see it based on my own experience. I repeat - this doesn't change the fact that he has genuine love for you and probably always will. I'm sure he'll never forget you and will often wonder what if. But he's made his choice and you have to take care of you now. However painful it is, I recommend the absolute minimum contract you can possibly get away with Rebel.

 

And well done - you write lovely messages​ and I feel your strength coming back in your posts. We're here. Keep it up! x

 

I suspect you're right. I believe he's not in love with his wife, I don't think he has been for a long time, if ever. But he did love her enough to marry her and so he does have love for her. To be fair to him he has never denied it. I guess that love combined with their history and his daughter make him want to stay. And honestly I can understand that. I just wish he had figured that out before all of this.

 

I think you're right about minimal contact is the only way forward. Thank you, again

[Rebelnoir]

" Sometimes silence is the best way to let someone know they did something wrong"

"Silence cannot be misquoted"

"Silence speaks volumes"

 

I would tell you from my own experience, that telling him how you can't be friends will go one of two ways - he will use your statement as a sign of weakness and argue back, making his case about why you are wrong to feel the way you do. Or, he will say - you are right - and you will then feel like total crap.

 

Say absolutely nothing. It will send the best message and put you in a place of personal power and strength. Talk to him and you risk handing that strength over to him. Remember, what he wants is to be in control. Don't let him.

 

I hadn't thought of it like that. I know right now MM would do a combination of both, tell me ok but try to convince me otherwise. Silence would work best. I'm just worried I will hurt and upset him. How stupid is that?!

[sandylee1]

I really wonder why his wife would want reconciliation, with a husband who has the cheek to message her, telling her that the sex is better with his OW.

 

I can't think of much that beats it, in terms of a slap in the face.

 

It's not even about whether it's true or not, it's the fact that there should have never been anyone else to compare with, once in the marriage.

 

Does he think she's not capable of finding an OM who is better than him in bed.

 

There aren't many men, that you can force into marriage... Many women are in relationships and waiting and hoping for marriage... Yet he your MM, presumably asked his wife to marry him, without being under duress and yet is so disrespectful to her!

 

How does that make him a good person.

 

The daughter he claims to love so dearly... How would he feel in 20 years time, if his son in law behaves like him?

 

That's exactly what happened to a friend of mine. Her dad had affairs all over the place and when her husband cheated and she was besides herself, her dad went to talk (well not talk.. But confront about hurting his dear daughter) to her husband.

 

My friend's H, told him he had no right to say anything and did he not think his affairs hadn't hurt his MIL. He told him he has no respect for him and that at least he hadn't fathered a child outside of the marriage, like he had.

 

Falling out of love is one thing, but remember that the treatment she's received could very well be your future with him.

 

And what country is he in, that a court would deny him access or joint custody for his daughter.

 

I hear this line about not wanting to be a part time dad a lot. The reality is that many men, would actually be left to do more childcare than they've ever done in their lives.

 

That's what these MM don't want to do.

 

In a marriage he comes home after work and sees his daughter for a couple of hours or so. Probably after his wife has done all the feeding and bathing etc

[Jemima1234]

Thank you for asking no I didn't go for lunch, i made plans with somebody else but MM had to go home anyway. He is going home everyday to check in with his wife. We talked a lot though throughout the week. He's saying the same old stuff about how much he loves me. He asked me to think about being friends. I've decided I really don't want that. Honestly the last month or so has made me see him in a new light and I don't think I want a friendship with him, let alone a relationship.

 

I think it's pretty ****ty of him to continue talking to me when he's decided to reconcile. He is making a big effort to spend time with me when we're at work, but that's so easy for him. And I can see he's doing exactly what everyone on here said...he's keeping me hanging by saying things like 'I don't know what I want', 'sometimes I think I've made a mistake', 'I love you', 'I worry I've caused too much damage for me and you to work' etc just incase things don't work out with his wife or he wants to continue the affair. He keeps asking if I'm ok, and telling me he was sort of ok before he saw me this week, but now he isn't as he loves me and can see how much he's hurt me. Again, more words!

 

He never logs on to our office messaging system but I asked him to on Tuesday so I could ask him something. He then logged on every day. When I asked him why he said it was because he thought I might be logged on too so we could talk. It's just little things like that which bother me, as I can see what he's trying to do. And it's so unfair on me, his wife. Everyone except him really, as he gets to have his cake and eat it if he keeps me in his life. When I told him that he said 'I can't help it, I love you and I miss you and I want to spend time with you. It makes me happy... Being friends means at least we are in each other's lives'. Just ridiculous. At one point if said something about 'when I get married'. He then said will I not be invited to your wedding?! Again ridiculous. It's like he lives in a fantasy world. How did I not see this before?

 

A few people on here have commented how men will do and say things for sex. I wanted to believe MM was different and he does love me. So I decided to test out whether he was just after sex. This wasn't a thought out thing that I'd planned, but when he asked if we could be friends for like the fifth time I asked what he would say if I said I wanted to continue the physical side of things. To be very clear, I really don't...sex is important to me. I just wanted him to finally have some integrity, show me he's the man I thought he was and say no! But he said he thought it was a bad idea but then said he'd definitely think about it. I know I set him up to fail really but I needed to know whether he was just a good man in a bad situation or genuinely a rubbish man, and I think I have my answer. I'm pretty sure he would be prepared to continue the affair but this time with no promises of leaving. He would happily let me waste my life sleeping with him, knowing full well he won't leave.

 

I guess his behaviour this last week has shown me who he truly is. I'm still sad about the end of us but also starting to realise I may have had a lucky escape.

 

There's so many little things he has done that have annoyed me. Overall it wouldn't be a real friendship, as it would be a secret. And it would only be a 'smoke break' friendship. Nothing else outside of work. I know that because he hasn't bothered to contact me since he disappeared from the messaging system on Friday afternoon (he went home halfway through the day). And I just though **** this is how it would be if we are friends. He would be there when it was easy in the office, but if have no right to expect anything more and he wouldn't give it. Very different to how it was before. I want and deserve more than that.

 

This post probably makes no sense, I'm just venting really! But overall I'm honestly in an ok place and preparing to just tell him on Monday I'm done, no friendship, nothing. It's hard to explain but I'm done. I'm bored with him, and this situation, taking up space in my life and my head. When I see him now I don't think of how much I love him, I just see a weak and selfish man who hurts others to suit himself.

 

You are doing so well- be proud of where you are at. Must hurt like nothing else but you are so right - breadcrumbs are horrible and cause so much pain. Take care and be strong!

[Rebelnoir]

I really wonder why his wife would want reconciliation, with a husband who has the cheek to message her, telling her that the sex is better with his OW.

 

I can't think of much that beats it, in terms of a slap in the face.

 

I completely agree. He says she really doesn't want to be a single parent and she loves him.

 

It's not even about whether it's true or not, it's the fact that there should have never been anyone else to compare with, once in the marriage.

 

Does he think she's not capable of finding an OM who is better than him in bed.

 

There aren't many men, that you can force into marriage... Many women are in relationships and waiting and hoping for marriage... Yet he your MM, presumably asked his wife to marry him, without being under duress and yet is so disrespectful to her!

 

How does that make him a good person.

 

If you believe his version of events he married her because after 5 years she said marry me or end it and he didn't want to be alone. There's probably some truth in that but in reality if he was so unhappy he could have left after the first or second time he cheated

 

The daughter he claims to love so dearly... How would he feel in 20 years time, if his son in law behaves like him?

 

That's exactly what happened to a friend of mine. Her dad had affairs all over the place and when her husband cheated and she was besides herself, her dad went to talk (well not talk.. But confront about hurting his dear daughter) to her husband.

 

My friend's H, told him he had no right to say anything and did he not think his affairs hadn't hurt his MIL. He told him he has no respect for him and that at least he hadn't fathered a child outside of the marriage, like he had.

 

He and I have discussed this. He said if his daughter was in his shoes he's tell her to leave. But it's all hypothetical words. I hope he does change and stop cheating. I want him to have a happy life

 

Falling out of love is one thing, but remember that the treatment she's received could very well be your future with him.

 

And what country is he in, that a court would deny him access or joint custody for his daughter.

 

I hear this line about not wanting to be a part time dad a lot. The reality is that many men, would actually be left to do more childcare than they've ever done in their lives.

 

That's what these MM don't want to do.

 

In a marriage he comes home after work and sees his daughter for a couple of hours or so. Probably after his wife has done all the feeding and bathing

 

Oh of course, he would get contact with his daughter. Probably not 50/50 though. To be fair to MM he does a lot of childcare, he does condensed hours etc and nights and things, but until recently his wife was on maternity leave and so this is a fairly new arrangement. He says the biggest issue is that his wife made it clear she would prevent him from getting decent contact and until that was properly established would stop him seeing her, which she had been doing. And the forms process could take years. At one point she threatened to report him for domestic violence (not true) to harm his chances of getting decent contact with his child. I'm not making excuses for him, he knew all of this particularly after he left the first time, and still wanted to leave. I don't know what changed.

etc

 

It's just a messy horrible situation I suppose

[Rebelnoir]

You are doing so well- be proud of where you are at. Must hurt like nothing else but you are so right - breadcrumbs are horrible and cause so much pain. Take care and be strong!

 

Thank you! I am proud of myself, I just hope I can stick to not being friends as it really is what I want! It has to be all or nothing.