[Dilemma with bff]

[todreaminblue]

And here's another way to look at it, OP.

 

Someone who would hold onto a one-sided association (love) possibly (psychiatrist's hat here) doesn't want an actual relationship. Think about it - no mentally stable, emotionally comfortable, self-loving person gives his/her entire romantic heart for years without getting like in return.

 

You can "love" a person (in a non-romantic way) as in: you care about the person, but to go to these lengths, to hang onto literally nothing romantically/sexually probably says more about him than it does about you and/or than it does as your and his friendship together.

 

If you were to turn around tomorrow and say "I want you," it would be a mess. I can all but guarantee it. He'd mess it up deliberately somehow because he doesn't want something real.

 

I had something like this happen...pursued for a year, finally came around, IMMEDIATELY he "saw issues." WHAT. THE. Yeah. It was A MESS from there. He didn't want a real relationship. He wanted to want. This was backed up by the girls he "wanted" after me (which I saw first-hand not due to seeking him but simply because we went to the same school.)

 

You're doing him a favor if you cut this off now. He will hurt but he'll be forced to look inward and wonder why the hell he's doing this and why he doesn't want to actually be loved and responded to.

 

Either way he needs a DIRECT "no" from you. Direct. And no, no special pillow methods or anything else. NO friend ever asks for that. It's just...weird. And an "in," or he thinks it is. Just no.

 

i have to disagree when you have unrequited love for someone doesn't mean it isnt real love or that you don't want or couldnt handle a "real" relationship with that person you love who doesnt love you back......most relationships have uneven love...one loves the other more..its fact..unrequited love is just the opposite end of the spectrum......i have known of couples who waited for one partner for years and they married..my mum and my step dad for one.......

 

 

the one thing i do know is that friendship with an unrequited love is hard.....and hurtful......but having them in your life is better than not...you at least want to see them happy........letting them go ...is really hard ..but often necessary....especially when that unrequited love finds another......you're happy for them and heartbroken at the same time...its not always about just wanting the person you cant have......not at all......you cheer them on ...want the best for them.....hope the best for them...help them chase their dreams.......you hold on to hope and your dream as long as you can as a person and for some..that's a long time....im one of those....who hold on....and i am committed to the people i love....even when they don't love me back..

 

i think it si better fro a person who has no interest in ever being with soemone...to tell them we shouldnt be friends....thats fair and just....for both parties....even though it doesnt seem like it at the time.....i dont think cruelty or ridicule is needed...but straight up and honest with a bit of gentleness..... ...yes....deb

Edited March 9, 2017 by todreaminblue

[GemmaUK]

@CaliforniaGirl@basil67 and @GemmaUK Do you think he feels that what he has said will make me fall in love with him? Sometimes I feel overwhelmed when I read his messages. I understand what he wants, and he seems to think that repeating himself every couple months will make a difference, but I’m just not able to be the person he desires me to be.

 

Not quite, he is trying to guilt trip you into talking to him much more and also about everything so that you have a form of dependency on him - Is what I think.

Reading those texts he sent - he is putting masses of pressure on you and the responsibility for his happiness is on you too - all on you.

 

He has you on a pedestal - one which you've already fallen off as in his mind you're not opening up and talking like he wants you to. It could just be that there's nothing you feel any need to talk about at this point - he thinks you're lying basically.

Then again any texts like that and I would have been straight away telling this guy that this all needs to stop. Perhaps you're shying away bit by bit and I don't blame you at all if you are - he is being emotionally abusive in various ways..

 

He isn't going to be an easy one to get away from - I'd pretty much guarantee that if you choose to end this friendship (which I think you should) he will pile on more guilt tripping.

The thing is though - this is 100% not fair on you - while he is doing all this I suspect you're not dating, not interested in anyone simply because you don't have enough emotional energy left to deal with anyone else right now.

 

He is being creepy, scary even and you can be sure he's stalking you online - FB or wherever and it sorta sounds like you have a feeling he wiil find you here too (you want the messages deleted).

 

He is like a supremely controlling boyfriend - except you're not in a relationship with him.

I would cut ties and run fast. Block him. If you want to say anything at all tell him what you said in your last post - you can't be the person he wants you to be - that's it basically and I would advise against any elaboration as it will only encourage him further.

[TheTraveler]

Not quite, he is trying to guilt trip you into talking to him much more and also about everything so that you have a form of dependency on him - Is what I think.

Reading those texts he sent - he is putting masses of pressure on you and the responsibility for his happiness is on you too - all on you.

 

He has you on a pedestal - one which you've already fallen off as in his mind you're not opening up and talking like he wants you to. It could just be that there's nothing you feel any need to talk about at this point - he thinks you're lying basically.

Then again any texts like that and I would have been straight away telling this guy that this all needs to stop. Perhaps you're shying away bit by bit and I don't blame you at all if you are - he is being emotionally abusive in various ways..

 

He isn't going to be an easy one to get away from - I'd pretty much guarantee that if you choose to end this friendship (which I think you should) he will pile on more guilt tripping.

The thing is though - this is 100% not fair on you - while he is doing all this I suspect you're not dating, not interested in anyone simply because you don't have enough emotional energy left to deal with anyone else right now.

 

He is being creepy, scary even and you can be sure he's stalking you online - FB or wherever and it sorta sounds like you have a feeling he wiil find you here too (you want the messages deleted).

 

He is like a supremely controlling boyfriend - except you're not in a relationship with him.

I would cut ties and run fast. Block him. If you want to say anything at all tell him what you said in your last post - you can't be the person he wants you to be - that's it basically and I would advise against any elaboration as it will only encourage him further.

 

Excellent post. OP, you need to end this immediately and never go back

[coolheadal]

Your not ready for anything like relationships, romance, just not ready for it for you to talk like you do here. I think the man you call your best friend is trying to express his inner thoughts with you but you deny it, because you can't feel that love he has for you, just not your nature to fell it with him. Just let him go and you move on. Can't be friends again the desire of him for you it not felt by you. Can't change who you are nor can you change how he feels about you. Can't have his love and still think you can only have him as a friend. Can't work in your world and you just going to keep on thinking as you do with him. You have lost a friend and soulmate who's still head over heels in love with you sounds more spiritual love beyond "I love you stage".. You know what you want and you don't want anything deep with anyone if you do then not going to happy with your so call friend there. You need to move on and stop this with him and let him find a women he can love even more than with you!

[goldway90]

Wow this guy!! beware guys using psychology jargon to manipulate and guilt trip you to stay in friendships and relationships because they usually end up emotionally abusive.

[smackie9]

True story: There is this guy that I was friends with in high school that stalks me to this day and I'm 52. He tried to manipulate me,etc...and I'm married! He got creepy on me so I ended our friendship, then 2o years later he contacted me on social media. I thought enough time has passed and that teenager obsession stuff was over.....boy was I wrong. I had to cut him off again, threatened to get a restraining order, and even then he managed to email me once in awhile but I never responded. Then things were quiet for about 3 years until he found me on Linkedin last year begging me to add him. I had to close the account. It's damn crazy:mad: To boot he has followed me on these advice sites in the past. I hope he reads this thread!

[Imajerk17]

I do find myself wondering if you are encouraging this guy in some way, OP. I mean, it doesn't sound to me that you've shut down any of his advances.

 

I mean, most people would distance themselves from someone they aren't romantically interested in coming on this strong (see @smackie's post #31 just above mine), but you consider him to be your BEST FRIEND. Not just a friend but your best friend. Interesting....

Edited March 9, 2017 by Imajerk17

[preraph]

You say you don't want to hurt his feelings. This is how people end up with someone they don't want around taking over their lives.

 

Does he care that he might hurt your feelings? No. He is being insulting by trying to manipulate you and make you seem like the crazy one who doesn't know her own mind. He thinks he knows what you want and need better than you do because he doesn't respect you at all or think you're smart enough to make your own decisions, or he'd have packed up long ago!

 

He doesn't care that he made you so uncomfortable that you came on here seeking answers. He doesn't care, so you need to wake up and stop coddling him because he's old enough to know better. He's not going to just go away until you tell him to, if then.

 

Security expert Gavin de Becker says: "People who can't say no attract people who won't let go."

[preraph]

Let me ask you something. When this guy decides to wait until all your family is around and gets down on his knee and asks you to marry him, are you going to be too afraid to hurt his feelings in front of all those people that you'll just say yes?

 

There is a "no" in your future, and it should be sooner than later.

[phineas]

Get rid of him.

He will make your life a living hell.

 

If you don't get rid of him then you obviously just love the drama and his lusting for you.

Simple as that.

[cae88]

@Imajerk. I have never given him any sort of signs that I am interested him on a romantic level. I have been his friend. The types of messages that he has been sending to me (such as the examples I posted here) have been within the last year or so. He lost one of his parents early last year and things haven’t been easy for him and his other parent and sibling (emotionally, financially, etc.). Even though his messages were a bit much at times, I couldn’t distance myself. I couldn’t cut him off. I was there for him. He cried on my shoulder the day his parent died.

 

Regarding the best friend situation, years ago, he proposed being best friends. I told him I did not want to be because I have lost best (girl) friends in the past and I did not want to have any more best friends. It was so long ago, I don’t remember what was said, but somehow he managed to convince me. He is also best friends with a guy - so he has 2 best friends.

 

What is interesting is that he brings up being best friends occasionally. Sometimes he’ll say things jokingly reminding me that we are best friends or he’ll tell me how awesome of a best friend I am and how much it means to him. I remember on his birthday last year I sent him a message telling him what I appreciate about him and that he is an amazing friend and he jokingly corrected me and said that I forgot the ‘best’ (I had just said friend). Would a guy who wants to be really romantically involved or want to take things to another level be so honored to be best friends?

 

@preraph. I don’t want to hurt his feelings, but I also don’t want to hurt mine. I will be sad if I lose his friendship. Honestly, he is my closest friend. I don’t have many people in my life who I can call friends. And the friends that I do have, I don’t spend as much time speaking to them as I do with him. I just wish that things were not so complicated. I wish my emotional openness and vulnerability were not such a focal point to the degree of being worried that we will drift apart permanently.

 

To answer your question; in order to ask someone to marry you, you would have had to be in a relationship with or dating that person. I would be very shocked if he did something like that and I would have to say no and question him as to why he would ask me that when we are not dating.

[BaileyB]

But, the relationship will not really work if you think you are "friends" and he wants something more. Just the fact that you know he wants more, and you have continued to be "friends" is misleading him... Because I'm sure he is hoping that at some point, you will change your mind.

 

You may not be intending to mislead him, but you are doing just that. Be careful with that, because it's not really fair to him and it may come back to bite you.

[cae88]

@coolheadal May I ask you what it is about the way I have spoken that makes you think I am not ready for romance or a relationship?

[Imajerk17]

You are coming up on a fork in the road. If you want to date, it will be very hard to find a potential boyfriend who will be accepting of your "best friend" being this emotionally needy towards you. Even if your male best friend is 100% gay. So this will mean either no dating for you OR the day's gonna come where you tell your friend to back off because of this guy you are dating. That will hurt your friend even more!

 

Meanwhile, I have been there for my friends and my friends have been there for me, up to and including loss of family members. But while we are there for each other, we aren't enmeshed as you seem to be. We aren't using the Pillow Method w each other (whatever THAT is).

 

I'll try to put it another way. You were there for your friend during a really tough time in his life. Awesome. If he were truly a friend to you, he should be the one always appreciating you for that. He sure as hell shouldn't be trying to foist something on you that you aren't comfortable with.

Edited March 11, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
References without attribution redacted

[CaliforniaGirl]

OP...this is worrisome. I don't think I've tried to cordon off a person and get her to make a promise to "be my best friend" since probably second grade. Meanwhile, this guy is in obvious emotional upheaval. And now he's bringing up some patented communication method he wants you to promise to.

 

Honey, I know you care about him but geez. This stuff isn't just odd, it's absolutely troubling. It screams future stalker...I don't know...seriously...it's time to distance yourself. Just please do it. None of this is normal. I hate to use that word (I'm not fond of it) but in this instance it's what comes to mind.

 

BE FIRM. FIRM. Be VERY VERY FIRM. I don't care that it makes you uncomfortable. I don't care that you "don't want to hurt him." There can be NO wiggle room here. I am serious, all of this is so regressed and odd and obsessive that...well, you finish that sentence yourself...imagine a not-great-case scenario and almost no matter what it is, it's a possibility here. Because this stuff is not healthy. Period. Get severed from this guy until he can pull himself together.

 

He needs to maybe see someone professional, work a few things out. Then after that you guys can see. But for now...BE. VERY. FIRM. DON'T allow him any "in" or wiggle room. That's really the last I can say about this situation because it's really just so unsettling and if a good friend were telling me this story I would be very worried.

 

Peace and good luck.

[preraph]

@Imajerk. I have never given him any sort of signs that I am interested him on a romantic level. I have been his friend. The types of messages that he has been sending to me (such as the examples I posted here) have been within the last year or so. He lost one of his parents early last year and things haven’t been easy for him and his other parent and sibling (emotionally, financially, etc.). Even though his messages were a bit much at times, I couldn’t distance myself. I couldn’t cut him off. I was there for him. He cried on my shoulder the day his parent died.

 

Regarding the best friend situation, years ago, he proposed being best friends. I told him I did not want to be because I have lost best (girl) friends in the past and I did not want to have any more best friends. It was so long ago, I don’t remember what was said, but somehow he managed to convince me. He is also best friends with a guy - so he has 2 best friends.

 

What is interesting is that he brings up being best friends occasionally. Sometimes he’ll say things jokingly reminding me that we are best friends or he’ll tell me how awesome of a best friend I am and how much it means to him. I remember on his birthday last year I sent him a message telling him what I appreciate about him and that he is an amazing friend and he jokingly corrected me and said that I forgot the ‘best’ (I had just said friend). Would a guy who wants to be really romantically involved or want to take things to another level be so honored to be best friends?

 

@preraph. I don’t want to hurt his feelings, but I also don’t want to hurt mine. I will be sad if I lose his friendship. Honestly, he is my closest friend. I don’t have many people in my life who I can call friends. And the friends that I do have, I don’t spend as much time speaking to them as I do with him. I just wish that things were not so complicated. I wish my emotional openness and vulnerability were not such a focal point to the degree of being worried that we will drift apart permanently.

 

To answer your question; in order to ask someone to marry you, you would have had to be in a relationship with or dating that person. I would be very shocked if he did something like that and I would have to say no and question him as to why he would ask me that when we are not dating.

 

There are a LOT of guys who think the girl to marry is your "best friend." He is stressing "best friend" for a reason. He wants to think this will eventually seal the deal.

 

I would encourage you to find another best friend. I think you'll see him unwind as soon as you start dividing your attention or, gasp, dating another guy.

[coolheadal]

@coolheadal May I ask you what it is about the way I have spoken that makes you think I am not ready for romance or a relationship?

 

Your not ready for anyone just yet! When the time is right you'll know. But for now you have to sit down and tell your so call buddy there that you are not ready and you will never be ready with him or anyone just yet. If you were ready you wouldn't be here asking us what you should do with a guy like this or what you want us to tell you to do. No one here can tell you how to live it's your own personality that makes you up. I had read all what you trying to share with all of us here. You have a man that is deeply head over heels in love with you but you have rejected his love. Because you do not see him as that love of your life and yet you don't see it because your not able to handle now. Everyone is different when they encounter such love but most never really understand the full meaning of it. You just need to understand one thing, let him down gently and then you need to take a step back and say I am done and I need to focus more on me (you).

 

Can't have it all and you just can't do this to this guy. Not fair on him nor on you for treating him this way. The reason why you don't understand is that you just can't cope with the fact there was a friend who had seen you more than a friend. In your eyes you only see him as your friend an nothing more. Not every man is going to be your WOW GUY! He's not your WOW GUY! He was your friend but who has developed more than just friends. You should have stopped this before it got out control and you will loose this guy has your friend because he'll get hurt either way takes time to get you out of his mind. He's too involved as you up as the girl of his dreams he feel in love with. But to his soon to be told the truth your not feeling it with him that way. I can say many ways but your got to understand you can't change your nature or path in this you are who you are and he is who he is. He wants you and you don't want him or see him other than a friend.

[thefooloftheyear]

Still boggles the mind that seemingly intelligent women don't get this....I always say, if you want to see if a guy is a true friend or not, then test him, say something suggestive and see what he says/does...

 

Id bet that over 90% of heterosexual guys that are hanging around as so called friends are just waiting for that chance....all the while making a complete jackass out of themselves,,,,

 

I always thought that parents had this discussion with the daughters early on..I guess not...

 

TFY

[todreaminblue]

Still boggles the mind that seemingly intelligent women don't get this....I always say, if you want to see if a guy is a true friend or not, then test him, say something suggestive and see what he says/does...

 

Id bet that over 90% of heterosexual guys that are hanging around as so called friends are just waiting for that chance....all the while making a complete jackass out of themselves,,,,

 

I always thought that parents had this discussion with the daughters early on..I guess not...

 

TFY

 

 

this could result in a false positive and isnt really fair......most guys would think about it.....if they didnt think about or even remotely consider it before they will certainly if you suggestively imply sex.....saints have heads that can be turned....but who wants to turn a saints head and corrupt the mind of someone who isnt thinkin about sex......or trying not too...men are human...........leave them in the confines and safety of a friendship bubble.......must respect the bubble......unless...of course you love the saint...and want to marry him.....then burst it...even then...it wouldtn be just about sex would it......deb

[thefooloftheyear]

this could result in a false positive and isnt really fair......most guys would think about it.....if they didnt think about or even remotely consider it before they will certainly if you suggestively imply sex.....saints have heads that can be turned....but who wants to turn a saints head and corrupt the mind of someone who isnt thinkin about sex......or trying not too...men are human...........leave them in the confines and safety of a friendship bubble.......must respect the bubble......unless...of course you love the saint...and want to marry him.....then burst it...even then...it wouldtn be just about sex would it......deb

 

A true friend would likely refuse the advance for fear of "spoiling" the friendship.....But that's not my point...

 

Most heterosexual guys don't bother keeping female friends ....I never really did, nor did any of my male friends...There probably has been a thousand threads on here like this one...

 

It's not that hard to figure out...If they aren't gay, then they really don't hang around..Just think of it this way as well...Most women I know, who are in a committed relationship wont be too keen about another woman in their guys life...and vice versa.....

 

I'm not saying it's unheard of, but it''s extremely rare...And most often what you think is a friend, is just someone trying to get into your pants..

 

TFY

[cae88]

Hey everyone, I will be responding to him on the weekend.

 

@kendahke I would rather set boundaries and express to him that I am confused about the way he has been communicating with me because it feels romantic in nature. Then hear what he says about it. If he confirms that he has a romantic interest/wants more, I will have to be truthful with him and distance myself.

 

@ smakie9 It does seem a little demanding doesn't it? He actually said to me last month that he has consistently sensed sadness and other emotions in me, but if it is something that I wish not to talk about at all then he should let me decide whether I want to talk about it or not without holding me in contempt (his words). During that exchange I revealed to him that I was really missing my sister and it is becoming more real to me that she will be migrating soon. So for him to send me what he sent this month is kind of contradictory, in the sense that he said that he wouldn't hold it against me if I didn't want to talk about my feelings.

 

If someone is to be vulnerable it is something that that person should willingly just do on their own, not by persuaded or guilted. I have been vulnerable with him, just not as often and to the depth he would like.

[cae88]

The last message I sent to him was on Tuesday. I told him I was heading to bed earlier because of my headache and that I had read his message and would reply the following day. I asked him how his day was, asked about something school related and even joked about something. He replied and included in his messages that the following day was fine and whenever I feel better.

 

I didn’t message him the next day or all week just because it has been difficult to come up with what I really want to say. I planned to message him either Friday night or Saturday, but I settled for Saturday (today).

 

I got a message from him early this morning, literally as I was falling asleep saying that maybe it is him and he will have to accept that things have changed and maybe we have changed.

 

Last year October I told him about some things that I was feeling and I really just wanted to go inward and figure out my life, who I am and who I am striving to become and where my place in this world is and that maybe that is the ‘change’ or withdrawal he has sensed. It has come to a point where I don’t even know what to say anymore. The guilt that I feel, I would rather he cut me off than I cut him off.

Edited March 11, 2017 by cae88

[cae88]

I can’t find the post but someone here mentioned that they get the feeling that I tend towards codependency based on my past relationship with my ex and this friendship. I did not realize that, but I can see why you said it.

 

In my relationship with my ex, I was the one who desired more, asked for more, expressed more. I was vulnerable about my feelings and tried to make him feel safe when he felt depressed. I often got pushback from him and he didn’t reciprocate on the same level as me. There’s more to it, but that’s it in a nutshell. I knew he wasn’t really willing or capable of giving me more, but I stayed anyways because I loved him.

 

Bottom line, our relationship was dysfunctional.

 

The irony is that when the relationship ended, it seemed like he tried so much harder to be my friend than he tried to keep things together when we were a couple.

 

I do feel that my reluctance to truly be vulnerable generally is partly due to me being rejected by him when I expressed that I wanted to make our relationship stronger and the hurt I felt because I wasn’t feeling the same desire from him. However, things are a lot better than they used to be.

 

Thank you for pointing that out. I do see now that my two closest relationships had/have codependent tendencies.

Edited March 11, 2017 by cae88

[cae88]

This is what I said to my friend a month ago:

 

"Hey *his name*,

 

I’m starting to feel that because I am not emotionally open/ vulnerable or very expressive about what I want/need, a wedge is being created in our friendship. You said to me last year that not bringing my vulnerability into play or revealing every innermost thought or feeling I have isn’t something you would hold against me, but you mentioned potentially permanently drifting apart this year because of these things.

 

My reluctance to be truly vulnerable when you request it has nothing to do with you. It’s just something I don’t do very much. I cannot recall a time in my life where I have said to someone “I need you”, but I am able to be vulnerable when I feel to be. I have opened up to you, but maybe the depth or frequency that I have is not enough. Maybe I am no longer the person you really desire me to be. I see that it is disappointing and hurting you month by month.

 

I googled the 'Pillow Method' and from what I read, it is a way to develop and appreciation for and understanding of another persons viewpoint? Let me know what you have in mind in relation to how we can improve our communication using this method. I'm willing to try today if you're up to it"

 

His response was that he is still thinking but some parts of it has to be in person.

 

He did not bring up anything more pertaining to what was said a month ago, until yesterday. I did notice though that he put up a meme as his profile pic on whatsapp a few days after my message above, that said "Why should man be sad? Man lost someone who didn't love him. But she lost someone who loved her". I also noticed 2 weeks ago that he had a blank profile pic for a few days with a status message that said "Done :(". I asked him if everything was ok and he said he wasn't and that he is withdrawing. I told him that I really hope he has a better week and that I was sorry he has been feeling the need to withdraw lately and asked if he has been feeling depressed or is he just taking some time away for himself. He thanked me and said "A lot of both"

 

Yesterday, quoting my response from a month ago above in our chat, he asked me if I'm comfortable/ok with it can we revisit that convo and explore it some more lateron. I told him that revisiting it was fine with me.

 

He sent me this message early this morning:

 

"What I wanted to write was way too long..and it would have made you defensive, you would've gotten sad/upset and I'll get offended, and then we'll go for another few hours or days without talking to each other...

 

It's you, I wasn't reneging the promise of allowing you to be yourself...you know exactly how I feel about you, so I wouldn't question your integrity. It's hard not to take your best friend not being comfortable around you or trusting you with her thoughts and feelings.. Better than most people, I know when you're not happy because I've spent more time with you than most..I can't pinpoint how I know, but I "know.."

 

I notice patterns and emotional vibrations, and I notice a lot of things..including you not smile as much as you used to, and I don't feel you (emotionally) like I used to, but, I can't bring them all up because it's not up to me to..

 

I lost you the moment you said that you "just don't open up yourself like that", and idk when it was I failed at my job as a best friend/your person

 

I lost you when a lot of unfortunate things happened to me these past few months, and I couldn't talk to you about it, because for the first time, I didn't know how to talk to you. I felt you 'weren't comfortable with me around'.

 

I've been jilted before, and I've been estranged before, so I know what this feels like..and every time I bring this up, it feels like I'm attacking you, which I'm not, and but knowing that I'm not that close to you is what hurts the most..

 

The point is, I don't want to be seen as "clingy" , "demanding", or "dependent", or worse, be the guy who makes you constantly feel bad.. So at this point in time at least, I think we should take a break from each other for a while..

 

I love you (romantically and as a best friend) to the point where it scared me, and I can admit that, but, I can't have you hating me for it"

[cae88]

I don't know where he is getting this notion that I am uncomfortable around him. This saddens me so much

Edited April 16, 2017 by cae88