Facebook looking

[oldshirt]

I've probably looked up the names of a hundred or more people on Facebook over the years. Many/most of them women. Many of those attractive and some downright smoke'n hot.

 

How many have I hooked up with on the sly? - zero.

 

If looking up a name on social media is this big of a deal, there is something rotten eating away at the foundation of relationship.

 

There's more to this than him looking up a name.

[aileD]

You're building this up too much. There might be a good reason. Maybe he looked her up to Block her.

 

You need to talk to him.

 

I just recently went thru the same thing (see my "not sure what to think" post

 

Don't let it fester. Talk to him.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Katie, I hope you read my previous post. The more I read your replies to people on your thread the more convinced I am that you are in an extremely unhappy place. Suspicion has no place in a marriage. I should say unhealthy suspicion actually. If your gut is screaming at you do NOT ignore it. However, at the same time do not let unhealthy suspicion fester in your mind as that will destroy any chance of a healthy happy relationship. Who opened the Pandora's box? It was you. Having done so you are now constantly fearful that your husband is not treading the straight and narrow. The reason is because you were the one to first step over the line and now you quake at every creak in the floor or thump on the door. You have'nt learnt to let go. As I said before you seem very unhappy and you need to build your own self esteem back to a healthy level where you can trust your husband but more so, yourself. You have been given a lot of good advice by folks on here but you seem adamant about not accepting much of it. I think it was Mrs. John Adams who said that if you are so unhappy or insecure, you may as well divorce. Just think about some of this. Warm wishes.

[merrmeade]

merrmeade - I guess I feel that even looking down that path is now hurtful to a BS.

Stick to your guns. Keep those standards and expectations.

[merrmeade]

You're building this up too much. There might be a good reason. Maybe he looked her up to Block her.

 

You need to talk to him.

 

I just recently went thru the same thing (see my "not sure what to think" post

 

Don't let it fester. Talk to him.

At the same time, THIS ^^^^ is the same reaction that I and others have—for me, every time.

 

It's easier for me to say to someone else, of course, because I totally understand why you don't talk to him about it. His reactions may be so unpleasant that you've decided to weigh your battles and choose judiciously (even though the fact of these reactions could be a game changer for someone else) before enduring his attitude.

Edited February 22, 2017 by merrmeade

[katielee]

So you had an affair ... you cheated. And now you want to dictate what he can do. The nerve!

 

You're right opencourt. It should be a free for all for him. Apparently, when I had my affair I gave up all rights in this marriage. I should just sit down and keep my mouth shut and let him f(ck around all he wants.

smh.....

nice forum you have here.

[katielee]

Hi Katie, I hope you read my previous post. The more I read your replies to people on your thread the more convinced I am that you are in an extremely unhappy place. Suspicion has no place in a marriage. I should say unhealthy suspicion actually. If your gut is screaming at you do NOT ignore it. However, at the same time do not let unhealthy suspicion fester in your mind as that will destroy any chance of a healthy happy relationship. Who opened the Pandora's box? It was you. Having done so you are now constantly fearful that your husband is not treading the straight and narrow. The reason is because you were the one to first step over the line and now you quake at every creak in the floor or thump on the door. You have'nt learnt to let go. As I said before you seem very unhappy and you need to build your own self esteem back to a healthy level where you can trust your husband but more so, yourself. You have been given a lot of good advice by folks on here but you seem adamant about not accepting much of it. I think it was Mrs. John Adams who said that if you are so unhappy or insecure, you may as well divorce. Just think about some of this. Warm wishes.

 

I do trust myself. This is why I know exactly what and why he was doing it. I've been through this too many times.

My gut - he's faithful. But he can't put himself all in this marriage because I hurt him too much so he occasionally looks and fantasizes. But that is hurtful to me.

Same as me - I can't put myself entirely in the marriage because I don't trust him. Say what you want about me doing it first. The fact is I still don't trust because I had to catch him at it twice.

I'm not unhappy. I am insecure. But not insecure enough that I look at his stuff all the time. I haven't looked at linkedIn in two years, email in three years. So, this was just an "I wonder if...." but my gut has ALWAYS known this. And if you have read my posts here you would know that. I absolutely trust and know he's not all the way in.

[katielee]

 

He has a whole lot more reason to distrust you than you do him...and he seems to be doing just fine...and he gets aggravated when you slip back into this distrustful mode.

 

What is it you want? and i can tell you...if he constantly questioned me...I would grow extremely weary....

 

 

I do not constantly question. I don't know why you think this. But if I have a question once every six months, I should be able to ask it.

 

I don't know why you think he has more reason to distrust me. I confessed. He did not.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Katielee...

 

If I lived in constant fear that john might cheat again...I would leave.

 

You have to face your fears. You have worked really hard on improving yourself and I do admire this in you... you have addressed how you allowed yourself to cheat.

 

And I think you are for the most part happy... and I understand that... sometimes we all have questions and fears and depressions.

 

You have started many threads here and elsewhere ... and it's always the same fear.

 

The only person who can answer your question and calm your fear is your husband... and if he refuses to discuss it with you then leave.

 

My telling you everything is ok or someone else telling you is ok isn't what you need to hear..

 

You need to hear it from him

 

I don't know what you want us to say.

 

Some of us tell you .. he's innocent... you don't want to hear it

 

Some here tell you he is not innocent ... and you don't want to hear that either

 

So what exactly do you want to hear?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Katielee...

 

John knows I am committed to our relationship and I know he is committed...

 

I understand doubt... Every October for many years I feared that he would leave. I was afraid he just could not take the memories anymore .., that he would go into depression and decide he just could not do it anymore.

 

But deep down I knew he loved me.... and I knew if I could just get him through October... he would be ok again.

 

We all have times when we are not at our best... we all have little hiccups in our relationship... even without infidelity and you are dealing with 4 of them.... even though both of our husbands had revenge affairs...

 

I don't ever blame you for your husbands affairs... but I do understand because I walk the same road... that if you and I had been faithful... they too would have remained faithful. So while they made their choices just like we did... I understand why. You see... they dont understand why we did what we did... but you and I do understand why... so in a way... we have an advantage over many here who are constantly asking why.

 

Your hubby may not be all in... you may be right... and it may take him a long time. Keep doing what you are doing ... it is working. He tells you he is happy.

 

 

Let me ask you this... has he ever told you that if he were to think about cheating again that he would tell you first? Has he ever asked you to do the same? Have you both committed to each other that if there are issues you would discus them instead of cheating?

[understand50]

Katielee...

 

As you know this takes a long time, and in many ways you are just starting. You do not have to give up your rights in your marriage, your past affair, does not give him leave to have one himself, or to abuse you in any way. While looking up a woman in Facebook is a flag, I think you need more to go into the worry you are showing now. Bottom line, ask him. See what he says, but try and do it in a way that will not start a fight. You both need to get to a place where these questions can be put fourth, and not cause so much trouble. Maybe getting to this place is your next goal.

 

I also think, that deep down, you never really came to terms with what you did. This shows up with you being so on guard. I think you need to try and set aside your feeling and panic, and look at this as coldly as possible. Is there any legitimate reason for your husband to look up this woman. I can think of several, and both "Good" and "Bad". I think you both need to face your affair, and you must feel safe and loved in your relationship. My wife knows that despite of all she has done, I love her, will support her, and will not leave over past sins. Mrs J.A. stated how she had that fear about John. Sometimes, my wife does wonder why I am here and gets frightened that I may leave. I have to reassure her, that I am here until we pass on. Can you see that this is happening to you as well? Maybe not, may be so.

 

As for "crushes" and falling in "lust". Look, this happens to me all the time. I recognize it for what it is, just me lusting. Does not mean I do not love my wife, or that I will not remain faithful. I just have to work to have it remain where it should be, in my head, and no where else. Because your husband maybe is attracted to another woman, as I am sure you are attracted from time to time to other men, is nothing. It is the action, of trying to make what is a thought into a real event or reality that is bad. In other words, actions, actions, actions. I have been married a long time, and in that time have seen many women that if I was single, I would have made a play for, and tried and bed them. Because I am married, I kept my distance, and reminded myself what I have.

 

As a FWS, you know how this line can be crossed, but look back and remember, how it happened to you. Ask yourself, if you have never taken that first step where you would be? Would your original thought be bad? No, because you would have never taken the action to go forward. That is the key, affairs both EA and PA happen when you act. I am not beating up on you, just trying to show, that while we all have impulse for the worst type of behavor, we can and do, as you do now, over ride them and stay faithful. If this is what is happening to your husband, help him and praise him for this. It is a good thing, and a skill all married people must learn and master.

 

I wish you luck......

[katielee]

Katielee...

 

 

Let me ask you this... has he ever told you that if he were to think about cheating again that he would tell you first? Has he ever asked you to do the same? Have you both committed to each other that if there are issues you would discus them instead of cheating?

 

No. He has not asked this of me either. I've asked for a commitment to honesty. We have said that if there is more cheating we will leave.

 

He very recently told me that he trusts me.

[wmacbride]

Your situation is complicated because you've both had affairs, and are trying to find your way forward.

 

In all honesty, I find it troubling if he gets blustery if you speak to him about a concern you have. Asking him about it is not the same as accusing him, as I said before, it's just asking for reassurance.

 

From what you say, you are just worried and want to talk about your concerns. For what it's worth, I think you should. Not necessarily because I think he's cheating, but because you have an absolute right, just as he does, to talk about issues that are bothering you.

 

These are your feelings, and whether you are right or wrong about what he's doing, ignoring them won't help anything.

 

My best advice for you would be to sit him down, and explain what's bothering you and why. Don't accuse him, and hear what he has to say. It's steps like this that will rebuild trust between you two- getting things out in the open.

[Mrs. John Adams]

No. He has not asked this of me either. I've asked for a commitment to honesty. We have said that if there is more cheating we will leave.

 

He very recently told me that he trusts me.

 

Then I think it is time for you both to talk about this and committ to each other.

 

Promising to leave after cheating happens is too late

 

Promising to always be open and honest prevents cheating from happening.

[merrmeade]

As for "crushes" and falling in "lust". Look, this happens to me all the time. I recognize it for what it is, just me lusting. Does not mean I do not love my wife, or that I will not remain faithful. I just have to work to have it remain where it should be, in my head, and no where else. Because your husband maybe is attracted to another woman, as I am sure you are attracted from time to time to other men, is nothing. It is the action, of trying to make what is a thought into a real event or reality that is bad. In other words, actions, actions, actions. I have been married a long time, and in that time have seen many women that if I was single, I would have made a play for, and tried and bed them. Because I am married, I kept my distance, and reminded myself what I have.

That's all fine and normal-sounding, understand-50, for you and other men who've not acted on their impulses, men who have not cheated on their wives, but it's justifiably threatening to someone in katielee's position.

 

I don't want to hear this kind of platitude from my husband either. He'd damn well better not think of himself as an 'everyman' in this context because he's not. He is an ex-WH who cheated on his wife 4 times, concealed and lied about it, a man just now learning what's appropriate and what's not in family, social and professional interactions with women.

 

I think that perhaps kl's husband has similar issues as mine in his inability to redraw his blurred lines between the personal, sexual and professional when it comes to other women and his commitment to the wife he betrayed. For the first four years, my husband now says he simply avoided the opposite sex. It's more meaningful that I didn't know it but look back and realize it's true (whether it was out of integrity or fear is another question). However, when he did get his first female client, he not only blew it in small, but not insignificant, ways, he couldn't acknowledge that he'd blown it. I had to point it out to him and say this is the line and you've just crossed it.

 

So I still suggest, kl, that your husband does some version of this pretend dance. He pretends to himself and to you that's he's a normal man and can do what they do and think - as understand 50 described. But he is not a normal married man and cannot do and think as other men. He has shown to himself and to the world that he has a defect in this area and does not always perceive his own interests and impulses objectively.

 

He should have the humility to be reminded of this and respect your alarm and renewed sense of betrayal, though he may not. If he doesn't, it's all the more reason why he needs (in my opinion) to hear from you that he has crossed an important line, which must be respected for your sense of dignity and security. Otherwise he can and will ignore and fall prey to his own worst enemy of denial and dismissal. I would urge that he needs you to keep him faithful in thought and in deed - whether he thanks you or growls at you.

[merrmeade]

One more VERY important caveat about communication that I learned from my 9-month fix in therapy post-dday: All those premises ^^^ cannot be delivered in a "you... you... you..." explanation. It will be perceived as harangue, which to some degree it is since you've been focusing on this and what he did wrong for some time.

 

The phrasing is all important. You can't even say, "I need for you to..." The whole conversation should proceed from "This is important to me..." WHether they use it as an excuse to blame the problem on your issues or see it only as a way to support you, some part of them does hear the part about their own issues. But you cannot approach it as just one more thing he's done wrong.

 

Hope that's clear. It may sound like those two approaches are contradictory, but they are not. One is how you think about it; the other is how and, especially WHY you present those thoughts to him (all of which you don't share the same way you might think them). Anyway, we all know this — Marriage 101? — and we all forget it, some more than others (like me). Just like we know and forget to protect our own personal dignity (which should be important to both partners). My own defect is the blurred line between these two spheres.

 

In your case, I think you assume that, because he once acknowledged how and why something is important to you, he should remember everything you and he said and agreed to. You should not have to remind him, right? I think that is unrealistic and a good topic for therapy. Regardless, the fact is the mind tends to remember what's useful and comfortable. It's not a failure on your husband's part for you to remind him that you both said it and it's important to you - and was important to him. imho.

Edited February 26, 2017 by merrmeade

[katielee]

Merrmeade these are great points thank you. He wants a normal marriage. But we are, abnormal. considering. Will always be in recovery. We must take precautions and actually change our thinking, imo.

I don't feel we/I have the right to get crushes anymore.

[Popsicle]

I have not been through infidelity, and maybe it's just me, but I do not think it's a big deal that he was curious about another human being and looked them up. I do this all the time!

 

That said, given the circumstances and if this is bothering you this much, you must talk to him about it.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Merrmeade these are great points thank you. He wants a normal marriage. But we are, abnormal. considering. Will always be in recovery. We must take precautions and actually change our thinking, imo.

I don't feel we/I have the right to get crushes anymore.

 

KL..can I ask you...what is a normal marriage?who is a "normal" person?

Normal is ...what is normal for you.

 

You cannot use others measures for your relationship. You just can't. For one thing...because we do not know what other couples have endured.

 

Every marriage is in "recovery" mode. We have to recommit every day to our relationship...which is how infidelity happens in the first place. We fail to fully commit to each other.

 

No relationship should have "crushes" and I truly think you have blown your husband looking at this woman's profile way out of proportion...

 

Should you be vigilant? absolutely....you should be proactive and protective. You should also discuss it with him if you are upset by it...regardless of his reaction. Harboring the concern will only drive a bigger wedge.

 

Stop being so damn hard on you guys....you have made such great progress. Accept that and for God's sake...be happy.

[understand50]

Merrmeade these are great points thank you. He wants a normal marriage. But we are, abnormal. considering. Will always be in recovery. We must take precautions and actually change our thinking, imo.

I don't feel we/I have the right to get crushes anymore.

 

Katelee,

 

I so not think it is up to you or him. Being attracted to members of the opposite sex, is just normal. You may as well ask to not have the rain fall. Again it is what you do with this attraction. Just because you have a thought of curiosity, or a electric tingle, does not mean you need to do anything about it. How many stories here start out, I was attracted to him/her and it got out of hand? Learning to put these feeling & thoughts aside, is important in reconciliation and in marriage in general. The WS, in this case both of you, needs to set aside, this impulses, and keep to your vows. So in your husbands, case, unless he had a good reason to look her up on Facebook, he is out of bounds. He is moving to action, and keeping this to himself. You should key in on his actions, not try and control his thoughts. That can not be done, by anyone, to include the person having them.

 

So what to do...... I always come back to talking. Bring it up, let him know, work it out. In fact, I think this is the only thing that can be done, and as you wish for a normal marriage, if there can be such a thing, good communication is the most important, because most if not all problems can be headed off or dealt with before they become marriage enders by talking. Finding out how, is the rub. Maybe in your case, a shared diary you both read and write to. This would take the "heat" out of the words and allow each to put more thought into your responses to each other. Just an idea.

 

In response to merrmeade, I think this is normal for most married men and women, to include cheaters, if they really know and understand remorse or want to stay married. Your husband, still to this days does not have good boundaries, and needs watching. I think if he wanted to, he could learn how to do this, it is not that hard. Cheaters are normal, and that is the hell of it. They just let their baser desires loose and forget their morals. Some do this one time and in the moment, others it is a way of life, but as we have heard here, even some serial cheater "reform" in the end. I think the ONS cheater can better do this, but if we believe in redemption, we must then say all cheaters could reform. We have the old saying "Once a cheater, always a cheater" I do not think this is true, and it is not because we as human beings can learn and change if we want to, and know how to. Unfortunately, for some, change comes too late to save a relationship or marriage. My 2 cents.

 

I wish you luck.....

[katielee]

KL..can I ask you...what is a normal marriage?who is a "normal" person?

Normal is ...what is normal for you.

 

You cannot use others measures for your relationship. You just can't. For one thing...because we do not know what other couples have endured.

 

 

I agree! but these are words he uses. "Normal people in normal marriages trust each other. In normal marriages people don't spy on each other." I think he wants it back to how it used to be before the affairs.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I agree! but these are words he uses. "Normal people in normal marriages trust each other. In normal marriages people don't spy on each other." I think he wants it back to how it used to be before the affairs.

 

Of course he does.... we all do. So we accept the new normal and do the best we can.

[understand50]

katielee,

 

A question? What is a normal marriage? I trust my wife, but still read her Facebook, not because I am looking for anything, but I am interested in what's going on. She browses me as well. With the exception of secret stuff at work, IE, stuff that is insider information, and can not be let out, I am and she is and have always been open books. Is that normal?

 

If you were to somehow, be able to compare, the Adams, The Understands, The merrmeade's, the "insert name here", I think you would find a wide way of having a marriage, or in keeping close. This is not to say marriages that go the other way, and are not successful. I do not understand the whole idea of a "open" sexual marriage, but will concede that for some it may work.

 

Where, I think we all go all the rails a bit, is thinking that our marriage, or experience is "normal" and thinking our "way" is best for everyone. It is not, as we all have a different "take" on marriage and how to love and get along with our spouses. We can only provide example of what worked, or did not work, for us using our own life experience.

 

SO..., what was normal for katielee and husband, before the affairs? Be honest, really think about what you were before. I think you will find that the marriage had issues, and that you both did not communicate with each other. Let's face it, if you had a good communication channel going, you would have told your husband all about the AP, before you did anything. The secrecy needed for the affair would not have been there. Some for his EA(s). Was your marriage normal?

 

What would be a normal marriage now? Your husband, sounds like he does not want to be so closely watch, and you to have some trust that he is being faithful. I am sure you have ideas as well. I once wrote to you, that you missed being the innocent loving couple, before this all happened. That can not be, but the loving part can be. You both need support from each other. It is not that I expect my wife to be some super woman, but when she is struggling, in her case with money, to talk to me. Because if we can both come at a issue when it is small, when we can easily fix it, we both are better, and maintain our commitment to each other.

 

katielee, I think both you and your husband need to learn to talk to each other, and in a way that is not confrontational, but helpful, so if he is attracted to some woman or any subject, and would like to talk it over with you, he could. Same for you, on any subject. Think how much better if the WS had told the BS, when the first thought came into their heads, or they saw the path unfolding into infidelity, they had sat down and told their spouse, and asked for help. Think about your situation. This may be the new normal for you and yours.

 

As always I wish you luck....

[katielee]

I agree completely understand.

[katielee]

I had a very good discussion with IC. Hubby and I want the same things but come at them so differently. After a discussion last night where I told him I was going to IC today, which made him nervous because I guess to him that means things aren't good between us, he said that trust was a choice. I said it just doesn't work for me like that.

He said just because ppl want to be his friends on facebook or LinkedIn doesn't mean they want to have sex with him. I was like - Whoa. ok.

Which I guess means many women are his contacts on LinkedIn, of which I haven't looked at in 2 years.

It went downhill from there and we woke up ok this morning like nothing had happened but he apologized and said he loved me and no one else, which is the thing I needed to hear 3 weeks ago.

 

So in IC she explained how he is so logical that trust IS a choice for him. And that I am different and trust is a feeling for me. I agreed. We talked about the pattern we get into of having the same fight and she drew me a graphic of how we can change the pattern - I say I'm insecure and ask for reassurance rather than asking why he does something. That we come to each other with things BEFORE they happen. We have been doing pretty good with this very recently. He did tell me he might have to go to the country club more often (OW1 is a member too) and I told him I was grateful he told me that and thanked him.

We also discussed (after the fact but still) of going to a party that OW1 is always at. I said I could handle about 20 minutes of it - we would go so he could show his face as a business person - so for 5 years of not going I could make a baby step in that direction. Interestingly enough, I was the one who brought it up. He just threw the invite away.

 

But he needs to tell me he's going to look someone up on FB. Or, he needs to give me the heads up on interaction with an attractive female simply for the reason of emotional transparency. And THAT is the thing that builds trust.

 

I wish we would have gone to her for MC.