MM and children

[aileD]

It's all happening as many people predict on this board...because it seems all MM are the same.

 

He messaged "sure we did right thing? How are you feeling?" [i.e. ending A and I ended it, not 'we']. I replied definitively. He then said "you know you mean so much to me...anyway have a good evening".

 

Is that a classic move?

 

Hell yes. Classic breadcrumb.

 

Can you block him? Usually breadcrumbs aren't singular ...he's bound to do more....just to keep him in your head

[Serendipity55]

By breadcrumb do you mean he's trying to pull me back in? I think he wanted me to say "I've changed my mind"...when I didn't he gave up pretty easily and just said "have a good night"...or is that a tactic too?! I feel I'm too naive.

[aileD]

Yes. He wanted you to say that. But he didn't just say good night did he? He said "you know you mean so much to me". He just wanted to leave that little breadcrumb there in case you wanted to pick it up later.

 

He will do this from time to time. "Check in" with you and drop a little "I miss you". "You were the only one who ever understood me". Bla blah..he wants YOU to keep the door open.

 

Slam it shut by blocking ALL ways of communication....you don't want to get sucked in at a weak moment.

 

He doesn't mean any of it. Keeping you is easier than putting in the effort to groom and woo a new mistress.

 

Cut him out!.

[Serendipity55]

He's now asking me 'can we meet up'...I've not replied.

 

He has many female friends and has had an PA before me. I don't think it was discovered (he says it wasn't) but I think him and his W had counselling around the time the PA ended. We have been friends for many years but haven't ever met W (nor has our mutual friend). Always struck me as odd. Apparently they argued about the amount he messages me about 8 months ago but since then apparently she hasn't mentioned me (only once and to comment on how he never sees me) - he didn't ever tell her when he met up with me (even if just for lunch or coffee) and as I said before he has all our of messages still (he has proof of this which he has shown me in past).

 

To people who've been the BS...(and I ask this as sensitively as I can and now with much remorse for the part I've played in an A) did you instinctively know when your spouse was involved in an A or did you have no idea until d-day?

[BaileyB]

Agreed. He's testing the waters. He's contacting you so that you will continue to think of him. He's putting the idea in your head hoping that in a weak moment, you will come back to him. This takes much less time and commitment than finding another woman to begin another affair.

 

And, if he's had an affair before you... he will find another woman after you. He now has an "open position" that he is trying to fill.

 

If you are really serious about ending this affair, you should just delete him. Don't read his messages, and definitely don't respond.

[Cymbeline]

He's now asking me 'can we meet up'...I've not replied.

 

He has many female friends and has had an PA before me. I don't think it was discovered (he says it wasn't) but I think him and his W had counselling around the time the PA ended. We have been friends for many years but haven't ever met W (nor has our mutual friend). Always struck me as odd. Apparently they argued about the amount he messages me about 8 months ago but since then apparently she hasn't mentioned me (only once and to comment on how he never sees me) - he didn't ever tell her when he met up with me (even if just for lunch or coffee) and as I said before he has all our of messages still (he has proof of this which he has shown me in past).

 

To people who've been the BS...(and I ask this as sensitively as I can and now with much remorse for the part I've played in an A) did you instinctively know when your spouse was involved in an A or did you have no idea until d-day?

 

For me, the confession was a shock, but also a 'light bulb' moment when I realised I 'knew'. There were a number of clues, most of which I addressed in some way, but they were easily explained away. If I thought of them in hindsight, as a pattern, then I realised I should have known earlier.

 

This ignorance may come partly from denial, but I think mostly, it comes from 'truth bias' - the habit of trusting the word and benign intentions of ones husband and life partner. In fact, some of the events I had questioned were so obviously signs of an affair I felt a bit stupid, but I had questioned them and wa to prove otherwise would have been difficult.

 

You can't assume one way or another whether she knows. They are pretty good

Liars during the affair

[freengreen]

He is pulling you in again bit by bit... the cycle is going to repeat if you allow it. This man dosnt care, its too much work to try catch a bait all over again, so he is trying you.

 

Get away please.

[aileD]

To people who've been the BS...(and I ask this as sensitively as I can and now with much remorse for the part I've played in an A) did you instinctively know when your spouse was involved in an A or did you have no idea until d-day?

. Both. I had feelings, could tell things were different....but was still in total shock when verified as true

[wmacbride]

He's now asking me 'can we meet up'...I've not replied.

 

He has many female friends and has had an PA before me. I don't think it was discovered (he says it wasn't) but I think him and his W had counselling around the time the PA ended. We have been friends for many years but haven't ever met W (nor has our mutual friend). Always struck me as odd. Apparently they argued about the amount he messages me about 8 months ago but since then apparently she hasn't mentioned me (only once and to comment on how he never sees me) - he didn't ever tell her when he met up with me (even if just for lunch or coffee) and as I said before he has all our of messages still (he has proof of this which he has shown me in past).

 

To people who've been the BS...(and I ask this as sensitively as I can and now with much remorse for the part I've played in an A) did you instinctively know when your spouse was involved in an A or did you have no idea until d-day?

 

 

I can't tell you form my own situation, as it was so messed up it's not really possible to tell how much of his crappy behavior was because oft he A and how much was for other reasons. I haven't been able to untangle them, and it this point, I don't think it matters anymore.

 

I will answer based on things I've heard from other bs's. Many report that their ws was being unkind, and even cruel, tot hem while they were cheating. If the bs asked why, they were made to feel guilty for asking, given a hard time for not trusting them, or just plain gaslighted. I have heard of a few instances that went the other way, where the ws went overboard in being kind and showing the bs with gifts, sex, affection, etc.

[Serendipity55]

I just wanted to write about what's been happening as I need an outlet and writing here is cathartic. I am at a low ebb and I am very tired, so maybe just a tricky day.

 

So the xMM has been asking to meet up (I presume as friends, as I've ended the A, and as we were before this blip) and has said he has picked up on and understands the boundaries I am putting in place and does seem to be respectful of them.

 

He has also apologised for what he said about his DD and that he just felt guilty but would actually want me to be part of her life...he said he feels awful that what he said about this issue hurt me (I didn't tell him that I was hurt per se but I did end the A again after we (meaning him and I and 'we' as in the initial advice I received here) had the discussion about the children so he's put 1+1 together) and that he shouldn't have said anything and is sorry.

 

I don't know what to say or think. I think what he said was necessary and a wake up call, not only in the part I was playing in hurting his W and also myself but also because it isn't the sort of mother I want to be for my child. It brought things into sharp focus. I haven't changed my mind on that score.

 

But I don't want to become embroiled in some sort of emotional game with him (where I pretend I am apathetic) but equally is there some merit in 'faking it before making it' i.e. pretending to be ambivalent until I am? It feels inauthentic to pretend to be fine but it also feels like giving too much power away by letting him know I am not OK.

 

I know the advice will be to block him. I know that's wise. However, my issues don't stem from him. He is a symptom not the cause. I am addressing my feelings of sadness (and jealously of other/his happy family/ies - an ugly emotion but one I sometimes feel) by picking up hobbies again, etc as time allows. Before all of this he was one of my closest friends and to lose that, on top of everything else, seems bleak.

[BTDT2012]

Before all of this he was one of my closest friends and to lose that, on top of everything else, seems bleak.

He isn't a good friend. Good friends don't prey on your weakness. Don't meet up with him.

[HeCantBreakMe]

I just wanted to write about what's been happening as I need an outlet and writing here is cathartic. I am at a low ebb and I am very tired, so maybe just a tricky day.

 

So the xMM has been asking to meet up (I presume as friends, as I've ended the A, and as we were before this blip) and has said he has picked up on and understands the boundaries I am putting in place and does seem to be respectful of them.

 

He has also apologised for what he said about his DD and that he just felt guilty but would actually want me to be part of her life...he said he feels awful that what he said about this issue hurt me (I didn't tell him that I was hurt per se but I did end the A again after we (meaning him and I and 'we' as in the initial advice I received here) had the discussion about the children so he's put 1+1 together) and that he shouldn't have said anything and is sorry.

 

I don't know what to say or think. I think what he said was necessary and a wake up call, not only in the part I was playing in hurting his W and also myself but also because it isn't the sort of mother I want to be for my child. It brought things into sharp focus. I haven't changed my mind on that score.

 

But I don't want to become embroiled in some sort of emotional game with him (where I pretend I am apathetic) but equally is there some merit in 'faking it before making it' i.e. pretending to be ambivalent until I am? It feels inauthentic to pretend to be fine but it also feels like giving too much power away by letting him know I am not OK.

 

I know the advice will be to block him. I know that's wise. However, my issues don't stem from him. He is a symptom not the cause. I am addressing my feelings of sadness (and jealously of other/his happy family/ies - an ugly emotion but one I sometimes feel) by picking up hobbies again, etc as time allows. Before all of this he was one of my closest friends and to lose that, on top of everything else, seems bleak.

 

It is so hard to lose a good friend. But. Situations, and life, and friendships change and they evolve. Sometimes people come into our lives to teach us what we need to know maybe about ourselves or something else and then they leave our lives. Change happens. When that friendship or relationship becomes toxic to you then you have to know when to end it. You can grieve the loss of that friendship and person but you have to be smart and strong enough to realize when it is time to let it go and move forward.

 

Do not play any games with him. Do not bargain with yourself about what you can handle and what you cannot handle. Go with your instinct your gut is usually right in these cases.

[BaileyB]

I just wanted to write about what's been happening as I need an outlet and writing here is cathartic. I am at a low ebb and I am very tired, so maybe just a tricky day.

 

So the xMM has been asking to meet up (I presume as friends, as I've ended the A, and as we were before this blip) and has said he has picked up on and understands the boundaries I am putting in place and does seem to be respectful of them.

 

He has also apologised for what he said about his DD and that he just felt guilty but would actually want me to be part of her life...he said he feels awful that what he said about this issue hurt me (I didn't tell him that I was hurt per se but I did end the A again after we (meaning him and I and 'we' as in the initial advice I received here) had the discussion about the children so he's put 1+1 together) and that he shouldn't have said anything and is sorry.

 

I don't know what to say or think. I think what he said was necessary and a wake up call, not only in the part I was playing in hurting his W and also myself but also because it isn't the sort of mother I want to be for my child. It brought things into sharp focus. I haven't changed my mind on that score.

 

But I don't want to become embroiled in some sort of emotional game with him (where I pretend I am apathetic) but equally is there some merit in 'faking it before making it' i.e. pretending to be ambivalent until I am? It feels inauthentic to pretend to be fine but it also feels like giving too much power away by letting him know I am not OK.

 

I know the advice will be to block him. I know that's wise. However, my issues don't stem from him. He is a symptom not the cause. I am addressing my feelings of sadness (and jealously of other/his happy family/ies - an ugly emotion but one I sometimes feel) by picking up hobbies again, etc as time allows. Before all of this he was one of my closest friends and to lose that, on top of everything else, seems bleak.

 

What he is doing seems to be a very classic move... He's apologizing, explaining, manipulating... he's trying to soften your resolve so that things will return to normal and you will fall into his bed again. See that for what it is...

 

If he was truly your friend, he would not take advantage of your lonliness and weakness for his own benefit. That's not a true friend.

 

But, I can appreciate your sense of loss. Hobbies will only take you so far... They will pass some time but truthfully, you need to grieve the loss of this man, this friend, this fantasy... And more than that, you are still probably grieving the loss of your husband. Let's not forget - this layer upon layer of loss for you. That will take time.

 

Sometimes, people do come into our lives for a reason. Some stay for a long time, other not so long. But, people come into our lives for a reason. Perhaps this man has come into your life to help you gain strength, resilience, and to bring you closer to your daughter... Who you will want to love and protect above all else. If that is the reason for his appearance in your life, wouldn't that be a great thing.

 

Best wishes.

Edited February 21, 2017 by BaileyB

[Cymbeline]

"I just wanted to write about what's been happening as I need an outlet and writing here is cathartic. I am at a low ebb and I am very tired, so maybe just a tricky day.

 

So the xMM has been asking to meet up (I presume as friends, as I've ended the A, and as we were before this blip) and has said he has picked up on and understands the boundaries I am putting in place and does seem to be respectful of them.

 

He has also apologised for what he said about his DD and that he just felt guilty but would actually want me to be part of her life..."

 

Sweetheart I'm sorry but he's going to tell you he wants your friendship - to be best friends. That you give him so much energy and he just wants to see you. Maybe in his own mind, that is all true. The first person we deceive in these circumstances is ourself.

 

But the reality will be that he will come around and you will resume where you left off. He may not be doing this to damage you deliberately, but it is what he is doing. He is leaving a trail of destruction behind him.

 

People in a good space don't get into manipulative affairs. They just don't. I'm sure that you have been through a lot with losing your husband, and really need a good partner. You won't find one while you are giving time to this man. Call a friend and talk so that you have company and chat from someone who likes you and wants the best for you. Someone you can trust. You can't trust this man because he doesn't know or understand himself so he isn't going to understand you and what you need now. If he had any real empathy for you he would leave you alone.

[BaileyB]

He's going to tell you anything he thinks you want to hear right now... That's how this works. He's already made contact and he's been successful in getting you to hear him out... Just a few more carefully chosen words and a little more time...

 

Be wise to this. You won't be able to be friends with this man. He doesn't really want that, and then all it takes is a weak moment for you... Be careful.

[sandylee1]

If he only wants to meet as friends, then he can introduce you to his wife right? Of course he wants more than that and you know this.

 

You refuse to block him, because you enjoy knowing he 'misses you'.

Stop trying to justify not blocking him by saying it's a symptom. You're seeking a reason not to block him.

 

If for example I take drugs and it's a symptom of having low self esteem, it's not good enough for me to keep on the drugs, just because that's not the underlying issue.

 

You have plenty of time to make a better life for yourself and stay out of his marriage.

 

You lost your husband during pregnancy and that must have been really difficult. Now imagine discovering your husband has has an affair while pregnant... This cuts to the core, because the man you love has betrayed you, at one of the most vulnerable times for a woman.

 

It doesn't matter if you've stopped sleeping with him... Your continued contact with him is still the A going on emotionally.

 

If you don't go no contact, I can see you getting reeled back in, even if you wait till his baby is born.

[aileD]

First off. Just the blunt truth: You cannot be friends with a man. You had an affair with. Friends meet each others families and are involved in their lives. You cannot do that because of the history. It would be disgusting for you to get close with the wife on a friendly basis. It also would put too much temptation in there for both of you.

 

Second:

I know the advice will be to block him. I know that's wise. However, my issues don't stem from him. He is a symptom not the cause.

 

When people are addicted to heroin, there's often an issue in their past that allowed them to fall into the addiction. Do we tell them "oh I know you should stop shooting up but you don't have to as long as your working on the heart of the problem because heroin is just a symptom"

 

No. You quit heroin AND deal with your issues. And once your issues are dealt with, you stay clear of heroin.

 

You cannot be friends with him. Deal with your sadness alone. He need to be out of your life. He doesn't respect you. He plays off like he does. It he doesn't because he would leave you alone if he did. He is extremely self serving

 

I am proud of you for recognizing his is not the type of person or mother you want to be and for dealing with your underlying issues. But don't kid yourself. He needs to be gone for good

[ShatteredLady]

To people who've been the BS...(and I ask this as sensitively as I can and now with much remorse for the part I've played in an A) did you instinctively know when your spouse was involved in an A or did you have no idea until d-day?

 

 

Instinctively I knew that something was very, VERY wrong. In hindsight, when he started becoming incredibly cold & cruel, one of my early questions was, "Is there another woman?" (I've NEVER asked that in 25 years!) His response was so strong. He deserved an Oscar.

 

I now know that it was "Gaslighting".

 

I was recovering from terrifying surgery, depressed & medicated. He made me not only feel crazy for suggesting such a thing, he made me feel emotionally & mentally damaged for not seeing it as all my fault. It was awful. I understand that psychologically he was so horrible to me because of guilt. He couldn't look me in the eye. He's explained since that he 'had no choice' because he couldn't have me discover the truth...it would hurt me & he'd risk loosing me. It was still the most excruciatingly agonizing thing. He was my life love, my best friend. I'm still shattered in so many ways.

 

I do have empathy for him & compassion for the lady he was having the affair with. I don't want her to hurt like the women who share their stories here. I blame my husband for what he did to BOTH of us. Toying with her heart & utterly betraying me was such a self absorbed, cruel thing regardless of any justifications I make.

 

There aren't words to explain it all really. I have disgust & anger for men who treat women like this but he's my life partner, I love him, we've been through so much together. I know HIM. It's just awful. I'm embarrassed that he became a man like that. Does that make sense?

 

It breaks my heart to read stories like yours. You were so very vulnerable. You needed a true friend in your darkest hour (I can truly empathize with that) your a mum of a baby girl, left all alone. It's so terrible that he's done this to you & his wife. It makes me want to apologize to you for men like that. I'm not expressing myself very well. I wish I could give you a hug (for all the good that would do!). Ugh!!

 

I feel bad saying this because you've already been through so very much in your life...PLEASE be strong! I know it's going to be really hard but I think deep inside you know that you have to block him & throw him out of your little families life.

 

You & your precious daughter need & deserve so much more than this. Please don't let him warp your heart & change your views of love. There are some dear, loyal, kind men in this world who would want nothing more than to be part of your lives.

 

Be strong. Heal & be patient. I hope nothing but the best for you in the future. Mourning such a loss as your husband takes a lot of time. I nearly lost my mind when my beloved big brother died. I'm so very sorry.

Edited February 22, 2017 by ShatteredLady

[ShatteredLady]

We used to joke that my husband could never lie to me. He has such gentle honest clear blue eyes. The day I married him (after living together for 6 years) I completely & utterly believed that he could never, ever hurt me. He's always been such a loving, gentle great-big-softie at heart.

 

I know a lot of single women think that the marriages must be awful or the couple were poorly matched for infidelity to strike. That's just not my experience at all. People also believe that the wife must surely know, all the signs are there! It's not like that at the time. I loved & trusted him so completely. He's NOT that kind of man....but he was!

 

Why would I not trust what my husband told me regardless of what my gut was screaming? He loved being my man, cherishing me, protecting me, giggling making light fun of me. When he cuddled me in his arms...I was HOME. He was my forever family. Why would I not believe him? He always had my best interests at heart. He's Daddy. He could never do something that could hurt our babies. He was very egotistical & thought I would never know, that I blindly trusted him. What I didn't know couldn't hurt me!! Pfffft!!! Idiot! ....but he was my idiot & he destroyed it all.

[aileD]

My H first affair was a big adjustment for me. I always saw him as a person of integrity who put me on a pedestal. I NEVER would have expected this. I thought to myndying dsybhe was a loyal and faithful person. He would not cheat in a game of cards let alone on his wife.

 

I miss that image I had of him. It's something I will never get back

[waterwoman]

I think that most BS know that something is wrong - you can't live with someone for years and not notice. But why would a BS jump to the conclusion it was an affair? Unless it's happened before how would you know? I suspected work stress, health concerns, worry over his best friend who was going through a bad break up, even the start of depression (he'd suffered from it briefly before) but not, never in a million years, an affair! The only reason I finally worked it out was that he almost told me ('there are these ridiculous rumours going round school about me and X') and even then it took me a week or so to accurately translate the facts and check his phone for texts. That was how trusting I was and how unthinkable the affair was.

 

In most cases it's not complacency, indifference, selfishness, any of those things BS get accused, it's trust.

[Overtaxed]

He isn't a good friend. Good friends don't prey on your weakness. Don't meet up with him.

 

This.. ^^

 

A "good friend" would NEVER enter into an A with you. Because a good friend knows that entering into an A with a woman has a 75% chance of destroying her marriage and about a 10% chance of leading to a happy relationship moving forward. Good friends don't play Russian Roulette with their friends with a 10 shot revolver that has all but one chamber loaded.

 

I've read through most of this thread, this is classic technique to pull someone back in. He's reading from a script, and you're about to fall for it. I know people here tell me that my view of men is bleak, but, if he's anything like the guys I know, while you're sitting around pining for him, he's at the bar talking about in a way that would make your head explode. Men, in general, see their AP's as disposable at best, as an unpaid prostitute at worst. And his actions are telling you that, you just don't want to hear/see them. A man who cares about you will stay away but leave his wife and encourage you to leave your relationship so you can be together. Still not a good idea (because of the statistics behind it), but no man who cares about you is going to try to "reel you back in" and put you back into the rotation. And yes, you're probably in a rotation; you just don't know it.

 

Please ladies, if you're going to get into an A, realize that the vast majority of the men who will knowingly enter into an A with you are going to be in the "player" category who are primarily or exclusively interested in sex. If that's what your after (sex) then you might get what you're looking for. If you're primarily looking for a new relationship, or a deep emotional connection, stay away from married men, they typically aren't going to offer that.

[BaileyB]

His wife is pregnant. He should be focusing his energy on his wife and his growing family. But instead, he is contacting you and he wants to see you...

 

Leave him. This is not a good guy.

[ShatteredLady]

His wife is pregnant. He should be focusing his energy on his wife and his growing family. But instead, he is contacting you and he wants to see you...

 

Leave him. This is not a good guy.

 

 

The problem is, he knows that his wife is going to go through childbirth, night feeds, leaky boobs etc. He needs some relief from that 'stress' & finding a new OW who's willing to have sex with a MM who's wife is about to have his baby is even harder than trying to groom a woman to service him with a wife & toddler.

 

He's going to push any angle he can think of. The OP has left him with the impression that she threw a 'hissy fit' because he wouldn't let her meet his child. Now he's saying that he will allow that.

She's set 'boundaries' he's sliming around with 'just good friends' (obviously he's not saying "with benefits" yet but we all know that's what's on his mind).

 

If she really thinks this through she will be truly disgusted!!

 

So...She gets to meet his child. Then the next child is born. Does she want a relationship with that baby too? Maybe his wife can pump breast milk so she can feed baby, play family, put baby for a nap while they have sex. Then he can run home to his wife to say what a fun time they had at the park. Isn't he a great guy for giving her a much needed break?

 

This is a sick, sick man. We all know it. The OP is damaged but I don't think she's so broken that she can't see through his bull. She's lonely. I'm assuming she knew this guy while her husband was still alive & he's known her through that awful experience. There's a warped security there.

 

I think/hope that she's starting to realize the truth. He's used their history to manipulate her into bed. She thinks that they had a real friendship BUT he has NEVER introduced her to his wife & child. I don't have 'friends' like that.

 

I'm very angry at this MM. Not only is he taking advantage of her fragile state... He's deliberately destroying his family (it just hasn't happened yet). He's having sex with other women whilst he's trying to impregnate his wife. He's risking the health & safety of his wife & unborn child. I'm not just talking about STI's! If/when his wife learns the truth the probability of miscarriage or premature birth is huge.

 

His wife is already blowing-up his phone when he's having sex with the OP. Her gut is SCREAMING at her but he's gaslighting her which feels like insanity. I'd bet the poor woman is already on her way to post natal depression.

 

I know that being on the end of adultery can feel like death. Something inside of the bs does die. In this situation the OP is complicit in something that can actually result in death. There's always the risk of suicide (that happened in my family) but here there's the very real chance that the unborn baby could die as a result of the trauma & abuse being inflicted on his wife.

 

I know the fog will make many roll their eyes & call me dramatic. I hope that this situation 'only' kills his wife's heart & faith in love, marriage & human nature like most adultery but I'm afraid it could be much worse.

 

Empathy for a pregnant woman should be instinctive. As human beings shouldn't we want to protect babies? I'm going to take a break before I loose all faith in mankind.

[whichwayisup]

I know the advice will be to block him. I know that's wise. However, my issues don't stem from him. He is a symptom not the cause. I am addressing my feelings of sadness (and jealously of other/his happy family/ies - an ugly emotion but one I sometimes feel) by picking up hobbies again, etc as time allows. Before all of this he was one of my closest friends and to lose that, on top of everything else, seems bleak.

 

But that is your reality. That innocent friendship ended when you two crossed the lines, you lost out on that and it will never come back. To stay in contact is an excuse to hang on instead of using NC and blocking him so you can really grieve the loss and heal. As long as you are in contact, you lose and those feelings of jealously aren't going away...His 'other' family? That IS his family. He has no 'other' family and thinking that you are is part of what is making you feel like crap.

 

Get busy and meet up with your women friends, there's nothing more bonding and amazing then your lady friends who truly love and care about you. Let them help you through this tough time.