springy Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Very good question...I think I felt vulnerable after losing my husband and I also didn't feel and don't feel ready for a real relationship. I know, however, it is painful and wrong for all involved. I am really sorry for your loss. Have you had any kind of grief counseling? How long ago was this? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Serendipity55 Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 Thank you. Almost 18 months ago. No, I haven't. Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Objectively I can see why it wouldn't be fair or right but neither is having an affair when you are newly married and have children so my question wasn't asking whether it was right to bar me from meeting his child (I know it is) but rather how can an MM have such varying moral standards? How can he willingly betray his wife over and over but then claim to be respectful of her feelings? There is a massive disconnect there surely? Perhaps this is different but he also sends pictures etc of his family life and speaks about his child all of the time. Even cheaters have some boundaries of what they will and won't do. They have varying standards because they choose what suits them and benefits them. There's nothing in it for him. His child (in his mind), isn't part of the affair. The backlash will be much worse for him, if people found out he took his child to meet you. Not just from his wife, but from his own family too. He can make excuses for having an affair with you, the usual stuff of how his wife is the wicked witch, but his child isn't part of that. How would you expect him to respond, if his wife /parents /siblings asked why he involved his child in his cheating? It isn't helpful to his DD and if you had her interests on your mind, you would realise it's not right for his child. My friend was nearly 4 and she remembers her dad bringing an OW home while her mother was out. She's 46 and she still remembers it and being promised a lollipop if she didn't tell her mum. You can't image the damage it has done. Some have rules like: Not in the marital bed Others I've heard of make me roll my eyes like: 24 hours between sex with husband and OMNo contact on Sundays for the religious MMNo contact on the BH/BWs birthday Somehow they see this as respect. You and his family are in separate boxes and he wants it to stay that way. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 He said he feels guilt at introducing his child to someone he loves but also someone whose presence could hurt his child's mother. I do get that. I really do but it still smacks of hypocrisy as he is hurting her already surely. The first bolded is so sad. The second bolded comment... Well of course affairs are filled with hypocrisy. You tell your children to be honest, yet during an affair... You're living a double life and being a lifesize example of dishonesty. You discipline staff at work for dishonesty and yet, in an affair, portray yourself as Mr. Moral Intergrity. Often after the affair, MM say they can't believe who (or what) they became during an affair and couldn't bear to look at themselves in the mirror. Do your best to get out of the affair. It's no good for you. You can also join free bereavement support forums online and communicate with others who have lost loved ones too. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Serendipity55 Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 Interesting point. He's deluding himself to think his child isn't part of his affair already as in, he's putting her happiness at risk too for his own selfish needs. If he was so concerned with their wellbeing (wife and child) he wouldn't be having an affair in the first place because of the damage it could do to all of their lives. Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 There is a massive disconnect there surely? noap. affairs aren't black and white; his relationship with the wife isn't black and white. this is you, basically: well, why can't he fail at parenthood when he's already failing as a husband? what's the difference? why not go ALL the way & fail at... well, EVERYTHING? HUGE difference between having an A and involving your children & introducing them to your mistress. also - it is entirely possible to be disrespectful to the wife's feeling but at the same time having common sense and respecting her role as a MOTHER. just because he's having an affair - it doesn't mean he has to morally fail as a father, too. it's possible to have boundaries even in an A - you don't have to go WILD and lose respect for every aspect of your life, parenthood included, just because you're having an affair. you're expecting him to reach extremes because he's having an A so he can't possibly have boundaries in other areas; the situation is very much black and white for you. other than that, though... why would you want to meet his child? what are you trying to achieve here? p.s. it's not weird that he's sharing info about the family & child with you. that is WAAAAAY different than actually MEETING the child - at the end of the day, i'm sure the pictures are available to everyone... social networks and so on. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Serendipity55 Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 We were friends first and before all of this he would invite me to his child's birthday parties, arrange playdates etc. I couldn't make those occasions for one reason or another. Even a couple of months ago we were all (with our children) invited to a mutual friends house (not his W) but I didn't go. So I think I feel sadness that this A has changed all of that and I want to go back to a time when everything was not messed up. He's said that when I feel ready to meet his W, that's when the time is right to meet his child. That just sounds bizarre. Link to post Share on other sites
aileD Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Do you think he is deleting everything from me and any other women? Of course he is. This is a given. Or it's locked down tight with a password or....he's got a separate phone for his escapades. Link to post Share on other sites
aileD Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 We were friends first and before all of this he would invite me to his child's birthday parties, arrange playdates etc. I couldn't make those occasions for one reason or another. Even a couple of months ago we were all (with our children) invited to a mutual friends house (not his W) but I didn't go. So I think I feel sadness that this A has changed all of that and I want to go back to a time when everything was not messed up. He's said that when I feel ready to meet his W, that's when the time is right to meet his child. That just sounds bizarre. He's living in some alternate reality. That's totally messed up unless his wife and him are in a open type relationship Or yes just a creep. Don't waste any more breath on this. I'm sorry about your husband Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Serendipity, Please don't involve the children in your affair. That's an incredibly hurtful and selfish thing to do to the children. And please, get some grief counselling for yourself. You really need it. I'm very sorry for your loss. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Very good question...I think I felt vulnerable after losing my husband and I also didn't feel and don't feel ready for a real relationship. I know, however, it is painful and wrong for all involved. You're vulnerable and still grieving the loss of your husband's death. I'm sorry that you are going through that loss... You're not ready for a real relationship so you're making poor choices for you and your daughter. It's better to be on your own and bond with your women friends, spend time with them if you're lonely. Getting involved with a MM is only going to complicate your life, even though you 'think' it's safe on some level, better than a committed regular relationship, emotionally this A will mess you up and the last thing you need is more grief and pain. Put you and your daughter first, stay away from this MM, he knows how to manipulate you and push buttons, he knows you're still grieving too and could be using that to his advantage. Not healthy at all. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 We were friends first and before all of this he would invite me to his child's birthday parties, arrange playdates etc. I couldn't make those occasions for one reason or another. Even a couple of months ago we were all (with our children) invited to a mutual friends house (not his W) but I didn't go. So I think I feel sadness that this A has changed all of that and I want to go back to a time when everything was not messed up. He's said that when I feel ready to meet his W, that's when the time is right to meet his child. That just sounds bizarre. That's impossible, you two crossed that line and you can't go back. Ever. NO WAY should you meet his wife or his child. That's disgusting that he's even considering this, so don't you either!! Put yourself in her shoes for a moment, imagine how'd you feel in this situation. Don't make anymore bad choices. You know it's bizarre so listen what we're all saying. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 There is something really disturbing about a man who manipulates and takes advantage of a grieving and vulnerable woman. And then to ever suggest that you should meet his wife and child. That shows that he has no respect for his family. Don't ever let that happen. Get away from him. He will do nothing but hurt you. Focus on your daughter and rebuild your life in a healthy way. You will find love again, when you are ready. This man is not the one for you... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 He's said that when I feel ready to meet his W, that's when the time is right to meet his child. That just sounds bizarre. it is bizarre - would he introduce you to the wife as the OW...? not sure i understand: is he talking about you meeting the wife in general or under special circumstances? does he want an open marriage or something along those lines? about this: I'm trying not to react selfishly to this but it does hurt... why does it hurt...? if you are aware of how bizarre it is... why does it hurt? i understand you missing the occasional hanging out as friends with families but it seems more than that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
FoundMyStrength Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) He's said that when I feel ready to meet his W, that's when the time is right to meet his child. That just sounds bizarre. It does, and my xMM said similarly bizarre things. Honestly, I think it's some weird cognitive dissonance. They can't handle what they're doing to both the wife and the OW, so this weird weird fantasy world develops in their minds. My xMM told me a few times that I would "get along well" with his wife, "fit in nicely" with his friends and family, and that even if we weren't together now, he thought our paths would cross again someday, even if it was "together in a nursing home." Some of it was really bizarre. But I think it comes from the fact that there is this crushing reality to an affair. You care about this person, but you CANNOT have them (whether xMM or OW). So we make stuff up. We all make up worlds where you can meet his wife and child, and me and my xMM can sit in twin rockers holding hands at the old folks' home. It's brutal, really. Edited February 8, 2017 by FoundMyStrength addition Link to post Share on other sites
aileD Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I went to a class tonight for people who are divorcing, separated, or trying to reconcile, etc . Basically people who's marriages are a mess and one of the rules is you can't have a relationship with anyone in the class. duh but they had to say it because vulnerable people tend to do things to ease their pain instead of just taking the time to heal. counselor said two things...1. You can break your ankle, and give yourself a shot of novocaine and you won't feel it...you will walk around on it and think you're fine and as long as you keep numbing it with novocaine you'll be ok But one day you will look down and see a bone sticking out of your ankle and a wound that is infected and you will realize that you did more damage by trying to numb the pain than had you have dealt with it properly when it happened. second things said was ...look in the mirror. You're a mess. You're at a support group so you're obviously not ok. Who is going to be attracted to you now? The only people you are going to attract are people who are attracted to an unhealthy mess. That's not the type of relationship you want. If you spend the time to heal properly, then the type of people you'll attract are healthy people and that's what you want. I don't know where you are in the healing process with your husband's death, but the fact you're having an affair with a married man makes me think he's some novocaine for this wound and also you aren't healthy because you're attracting the type of man who's going to cheat on his wife and not respect either of you. I'm not calling you a mess, or unhealthy......that just came up tonight, and I thought it relevant.....maybe you need to look deeper at healing and dealing with your husband's death? sorry if I overstepped 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ronni_W Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 He's deluding himself to think his child isn't part of his affair already as in, he's putting her happiness at risk too for his own selfish needs. If he was so concerned with their wellbeing (wife and child) he wouldn't be having an affair in the first place because of the damage it could do to all of their lives. Serendipity55, Focusing on his intentions and motives, and on how he is or isn't already impacting his child, and on whether or not he is concerned about his family's well-being, is not going to help YOU look at you and what is best for your and your daughter's highest long-term best interest. Whatever hypocrisy and delusion and whatever else he's gotten himself into is, at the end of the day, his problem; not yours to try to figure out the cause or any potential solutions/outcomes for his wife and child. As has been mentioned, your decision/judgment was clouded by grief. But, that cloud has started to become less dense, which has enabled you to start seeing this situation more clearly -- it isn't healthy or positive FOR YOU. That's the only concern. My sympathy for your loss, Ronni Link to post Share on other sites
freengreen Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) Affair is a metaphor for double standards. Once your affair is exposed, leave alone the child, he will pull a houdini on you. Is there a way you can leave now? He will add to your pain. Please let it go. Takecare. Edited February 8, 2017 by freengreen Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 In what capacity are you to meet his wife exactly? One thing you need to let sink in, is that he has you for a purpose. To fill his desire for extra sex or ego stroking. His DD doesn't need you. You aren't her step mother, her Aunt, or anything at all in her life and you aren't her friend. Introducing her to you is more risky than his current goings on. Why do you think he would add further risk? As long as his DD can talk, it's dangerous for him. You mentioned being invited to birthday parties, so I'm guessing his DD is at least 3 years old. At that age she's capable of saying, "I saw daddy's friend today and she has a baby". What does he say then, when his wife asks what's going on? And who is this friend. My niece was just 3, when she said to her dad "A man wanted Mummy's phone number today". If she can't talk, he won't want the headache. It serves him no purpose for her to meet you. There are levels. I always thought it was hypocritical that prisoners would beat up paedophiles.. I mean it's not like they're in there for good behaviour right! Link to post Share on other sites
BTDT2012 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 OP, how old is your daughter? Does she know you are having a relationship with this man? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Serendipity55 Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 Thanks again for the wise words. My DD is under 1. She has no idea who he is - he's only met her once and briefly. I've asked him several times to delete all messages between us but he doesn't for some reason and as I said his W has access to his phone (he only has one phone, one number, etc). I don't want to risk any exposure, especially now it is over and especially in light of his news... Today I told him it was categorically over (we haven't actually seen each other for several months because I've been putting him off because I've always known it is wrong for all involved but I've just been really sad - not an excuse but an explanation). He then told me his W is pregnant and then literally in next breath asked me to reconsider ending it and said ideally he wants us to continue to 'be together' for many years to come because he is in love with me, needs me, etc...no thank you! Link to post Share on other sites
Ronni_W Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I've just been really sad Hugs, Serendipity55. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Serendipity55 Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 Thank you for your kind words Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Good for you! I'm sorry for your pain, but you should be proud of yourself that you have done what is right and you've done what's best for you - may not feel like the best right now but it will be in the end! Stay strong - focus on your daughter and work to find your happiness again in a healthy way... But seriously, how messed up is that that he tells you his wife is pregnant again but then tells you he wants you to stay in his life. This guy really wants to have his cake and eat it too... I feel so badly for his poor wife. Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Thanks again for the wise words. He then told me his W is pregnant and then literally in next breath asked me to reconsider ending it and said ideally he wants us to continue to 'be together' for many years to come because he is in love with me, needs me, etc...no thank you! I always wonder why men like this, ever bother getting married. Then I realise, that what they really want is to appear like mature , well developed and committed men, when they're just the opposite, They live their lives pretending to be what they're not. They could just as well be lifetime bachelors and have a bunch of f**k buddies. He's offering you the role of being a permanent mistress and you should jump for joy right. s his family grows and wife is tired, he wants you to watch on the sidelines and be available for sex. You can do better for yourself. Way better than this sleazy MM. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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