Can't understand philosophical boyfriend

[Poe77]

My Bf can be a stubborn kinda guy OP if he thinks he is right he will argue it out some times I have to say something back sometimes I dont ive learned to choose my battles other wise we would end up having blow outs...funny thing is we get along 95% of the time like bread and butter....hes just got that stubborn streak and when hes on a roll I cant even get him to see that its ok for others to have a opinion to..honestly all you can do if the situation is like that is to just walk away and calm yourself down...

[kztar]

You don't calm each other down. If you upset someone you sincerely apologize and correct yourself. If he doesn't see how it's wrong then none of that will truly happen. He just tries to talk you into believing it, in order to keep you around until he has secured a soft landing with the girl from the wedding.

 

He runs to a wedding acquaintance with your dirty laundry only to show her that there's a possibility of them hooking up in the near future. If you don't see it and call him out on it no one can help you.

 

Agree. We are on a "break" for a few days and I might see him over the weekend.

 

I also would not like him to continue speaking with this girl at all, and maybe I come off as a little controlling but im getting other's points of views to see what they think and feel. Im tired of feeling like im controlling, when all I want to do is be respected. I consider myself to be pretty laid back.

 

I mean out of respect for him, I would not talk to anyone that has interest in me. My mother said that he always wants to make me look like the bad guy.

[kztar]

It's your responsibility to calm yourself down. When things get heated, you create the example -- "hey, this is getting out of hand. Let's come back to this and have a calmer/more level-headed discussion. Can we talk again at Xtime or tomorrow?"

 

If it becomes an argument again . . . there is a really serious communication/understanding issue between you. If he's "imposing" his views on you, that's unacceptable.

 

Yes and im working on that. I am thinking maybe we need therapy but he refuses.

 

My family is not very happy with everything that has happened and they are not with it.

[mightycpa]

Err, but then he didn't really apologize, did he?

 

Apolgoy:

noun, plural apologies.

1.

a written or spoken expression of one's regret, remorse, or sorrow for having insulted, failed, injured, or wronged another

Maybe the apology was for making her feel bad, not for the action itself. ie, "regret for having injured another", not regret for actions that caused injury.

 

See, I got this exactly right:

That's not what she said. She said,

 

"he wants to force me to UNDERSTAND his point of view. When I say it was wrong he will continue to discuss the "intentions" behind it that don't make it wrong."

 

SHE is saying HE'S wrong and he's trying to get her to see his point of view.

 

OP, maybe he would lay off a little if you stopped telling him he is "wrong". I find it pretty rude of you.

 

He wants to explore all sides. She considers it a violation to even ask her consider anything but her own side. Philosophical vs. political.

[Redhead14]

Yes and im working on that. I am thinking maybe we need therapy but he refuses.

 

My family is not very happy with everything that has happened and they are not with it.

 

How long have you two been seeing each other? If it's a fairly new relationship, less than a year especially, you don't do "counseling". Counselling is for "saving" a significant and long-term relationship that is fundamentally working but experiencing some difficulties and/or children are involved.

 

Dating is process of evaluating whether or not the fundamental relationship needs are being met more organically at least. If you have to force it to happen at this stage, it's a waste of time.

[kztar]

How long have you two been seeing each other? If it's a fairly new relationship, less than a year especially, you don't do "counseling". Counselling is for "saving" a significant and long-term relationship that is fundamentally working but experiencing some difficulties and/or children are involved.

 

Dating is process of evaluating whether or not the fundamental relationship needs are being met more organically at least. If you have to force it to happen at this stage, it's a waste of time.

 

2.5 years.

[Redhead14]

2.5 years.

 

Frankly, 2.5 years isn't worth "saving". Who he is now, is who he will be forever. And, if you think he's going to change on "your" watch, it's not worth your time.

[kztar]

Frankly, 2.5 years isn't worth "saving". Who he is now, is who he will be forever. And, if you think he's going to change on "your" watch, it's not worth your time.

 

I love him so much but I think you're right

[kztar]

im going to therapy I hope that helps me.

[spiderowl]

I'm afraid I fall into the same category as your boyfriend, having studied philosophy. I do find there is a difference in thinking between me and most people. I am pretty resigned to that but it is certainly frustrating in relationships and probably why I am still on my own.

 

I am sure your boyfriend does want you to understand him. You are probably the practical one who gets things done and is decisive. It is hard to be decisive when thinking of all the implications and grey areas. He should not use his thinking to suggest you are wrong. I wonder if that is what he is doing or if he is saying that things are not so black and white? It must seem a frustrating way to thinking to you.

 

I wonder if ultimately you two are suited. I know I don't get on with black and white thinkers at all. Lack of understanding works both ways - they don't understand how I need to think of all the ramifications and nuances and I don't understand how they can decide something when there seems such a grey area involved. Sometimes things are obviously right or wrong and there is no question in my mind.

 

You are already feeling frustrated with him and feel he is blaming you in some way or questioning your judgement. He may be frustrated too. I do wonder if you will work this out or end up going separate ways. All I know is I could never be with a black and white thinker, however nice they were.

[umirano]

maybe I come off as a little controlling but im getting other's points of views to see what they think and feel. Im tired of feeling like im controlling, when all I want to do is be respected. I consider myself to be pretty laid back.

I don't see how that's controlling. To me it is plain as day that he's not simply looking for advice. You go for advice to your family or to a friend of many years, not to a party crush.

 

I mean out of respect for him, I would not talk to anyone that has interest in me. My mother said that he always wants to make me look like the bad guy.

Your mother might be onto something.

[basil67]

Kztar, I just looked at your history. This year is littered with posts about how unhappy you are, about missing red flags, about a breakup with him and your lost sex drive (lost sex drive can be very much related to how you feel about your partner!)

 

Hon, your relationship is a disaster. Please listen to your mum and walk away from this mess.

[spiderowl]

Hmm, further to ...

 

If he is sharing problems between you and him with someone else, then his is already moving out of the relationship. It is just not respectful of him to do that, philosophy or not. Actually, what he is doing is rationalising. He wants to chat to the girl but has to explain it somehow. Of course he is not going to want you to stop him if he has a need to chat to her.

 

I don't blame you for being on a break. Really, the philosophy is part of it but perhaps the most important thing is that he is seeking to meet a need elsewhere. How does that make you feel and how much could you tolerate without feeling threatened? I doubt that most people would be too comfortable with that. Having said that, technology - such as mobile phones, computers, chat apps - makes it easier than ever for people to have 'relationships' with those who would have been friends in the past. Simply being in contact 24/7 strengthens bonds.

[kztar]

Well he texted me that he is going on a job interview tomorrow and guess who was his connection?

 

This girl. Granted he needs a job but he basically told me he is going to continue being friends with this girl and he is not willing to cut her out of the picture because he will use the connection to better his situation?

 

I need some serious advice. Im at the verge of breaking up with him. Is a new connection more important than a connection you already have with your GF? Can he compromise anything here.

[umirano]

Maybe the apology was for making her feel bad, not for the action itself. ie, "regret for having injured another", not regret for actions that caused injury.

 

See, I got this exactly right:

 

 

He wants to explore all sides. She considers it a violation to even ask her consider anything but her own side. Philosophical vs. political.

 

Well... I think any partner in any relationship is out of line when they take relationship problems to an outside party that clearly has an interest in that relationship ending. They might as well just break up. Yes, people make mistakes. Even somewhat smart guys like kztar's BF make mistakes, but if he made a sincere apology and admitted this mistake kztar probably wouldn't be posting here. She's posting here because he doesn't see how taking dirty laundry to outsiders who have a documented interest in the relationship ending is wrong.

 

I see more clearly now that kztar's BF actually uses his assumed knowledge in philosophy to gain the upper hand in disagreements about their relationship. That is insincere to the highest degree.

 

A relationship problem isn't a philosophy seminar assignment. Consequently he shouldn't take her on tour d'horizon on the dialectics on boundaries with outsiders crushing on one of the partners. Most people I know instinctively consider this an absolute no-go, regardless of our qualifications in philosophy.

 

kztar, I think you have to lay down the law here. I know you love him and this really upsetting but your BF is very dishonest. I don't think any amount of therapy on your side can fix this. Either he accepts that what he did is disloyal and ceases or you have to end the relationship, unless you are willing to accept his new "friend" and "therapist" and their intimate communication.

 

Again, your RS is not a philosophical problem. He has to show loyalty, respect and honesty. Even trained philosophers are capable of this. If you try to salvage this you cannot let him weasel his way into philosophical debates again.

[kztar]

Well... I think any partner in any relationship is out of line when they take relationship problems to an outside party that clearly has an interest in that relationship ending. They might as well just break up. Yes, people make mistakes. Even somewhat smart guys like kztar's BF make mistakes, but if he made a sincere apology and admitted this mistake kztar probably wouldn't be posting here. She's posting here because he doesn't see how taking dirty laundry to outsiders who have a documented interest in the relationship ending is wrong.

 

I see more clearly now that kztar's BF actually uses his assumed knowledge in philosophy to gain the upper hand in disagreements about their relationship. That is insincere to the highest degree.

 

A relationship problem isn't a philosophy seminar assignment. Consequently he shouldn't take her on tour d'horizon on the dialectics on boundaries with outsiders crushing on one of the partners. Most people I know instinctively consider this an absolute no-go, regardless of our qualifications in philosophy.

 

kztar, I think you have to lay down the law here. I know you love him and this really upsetting but your BF is very dishonest. I don't think any amount of therapy on your side can fix this. Either he accepts that what he did is disloyal and ceases or you have to end the relationship, unless you are willing to accept his new "friend" and "therapist" and their intimate communication.

 

Again, your RS is not a philosophical problem. He has to show loyalty, respect and honesty. Even trained philosophers are capable of this. If you try to salvage this you cannot let him weasel his way into philosophical debates again.

 

Thank you umirano. The therapy will be for myself. This relationship is doomed. This is not going anywhere.

[umirano]

Some things in relationships are not negotiable. Intimacy, loyalty, honesty and sincerity are a some of them. "Most people know XYZ is wrong" is not an academically valid argument, but that's irrelevant. A relationship isn't an academic problem.

[kztar]

Some things in relationships are not negotiable. Intimacy, loyalty, honesty and sincerity are a some of them. "Most people know XYZ is wrong" is not an academically valid argument, but that's irrelevant. A relationship isn't an academic problem.

 

He's not willing to cease. His excuse is that I don't let him be himself and have friends and so on. Today he texted me and he told me that he is not going to stop being friends with that girl because I am controlling and he claims that they can be friends because she's interested in him but him not in her . He does not feel like he can be himself. I am tired of feeling like I'm wrong and tired of feeling like I'm not good enough. I'm ghosting on him. Picking up all my belongings from our apartment and disappearing.

[basil67]

Unless you fear for your personal safety, have the dignity to not ghost. At the very least, you need to tell him face to face that it's not working and it's best if you move out.

 

You don't have to give him reasons or discuss it. But do tell him.

[kztar]

Unless you fear for your personal safety, have the dignity to not ghost. At the very least, you need to tell him face to face that it's not working and it's best if you move out.

 

You don't have to give him reasons or discuss it. But do tell him.

 

This will be our second breakup. He called ALL the shots the first time around. This is my time to call all the shots.

[Redhead14]

Unless you fear for your personal safety, have the dignity to not ghost. At the very least, you need to tell him face to face that it's not working and it's best if you move out.

 

You don't have to give him reasons or discuss it. But do tell him.

 

Always leave a relationship with dignity, grace and control. Ghosting may seem like control, but most people view it as cowardice.

[kztar]

Always leave a relationship with dignity, grace and control. Ghosting may seem like control, but most people view it as cowardice.

 

Very true. How do I do it properly? not that im asking what to do but rather than just advice.

 

We do have an apartment together but i am back home and I need to place all my belonging at a storage.

[umirano]

LOL, is this guy for real? Can't have friends? This is so far belly up, you can see the back of it...

 

Given how disrespectful he is you can break up by text. Or meet up in person. The how doesn't matter.

[kztar]

LOL, is this guy for real? Can't have friends? This is so far belly up, you can see the back of it...

 

Given how disrespectful he is you can break up by text. Or meet up in person. The how doesn't matter.

 

Yeah i think ill pick up my belongings and then do it through text or in person out of respect for the family. They love me like a daughter.

 

I know that I have also played my role in the breakup and so on but thisssss is insaneeee. I will not tolerate such disrespect with him or anyone regardless of how much I love him. Initially what he did was WRONG and I was willing to forgive him but his apology was not sincere. He said sorry to shut me up but he still felt like that was right. On top of that he is not willing to cut off communication with this person because she can be his FRIEND and he would like a friendship with her. Well clearly that's more important than our "relationship".

 

He also claims that everyone who talks to me has interest in me because unlike him I have real friends and not computer friends that only communicate through video games. He is a gamer. This is not true, anyone who seemed to be problematic for our relationship got eliminated. He just thinks im keeping these people on the side which im not. I could care less about them.

 

SORRY RANTS. Figuring all this nonsense out with my furniture plain SUCKS. I will probably do it face to face.

[Sweetfish]

Yeah i think ill pick up my belongings and then do it through text or in person out of respect for the family. They love me like a daughter.

 

I know that I have also played my role in the breakup and so on but thisssss is insaneeee. I will not tolerate such disrespect with him or anyone regardless of how much I love him. Initially what he did was WRONG and I was willing to forgive him but his apology was not sincere. He said sorry to shut me up but he still felt like that was right. On top of that he is not willing to cut off communication with this person because she can be his FRIEND and he would like a friendship with her. Well clearly that's more important than our "relationship".

 

He also claims that everyone who talks to me has interest in me because unlike him I have real friends and not computer friends that only communicate through video games. He is a gamer. This is not true, anyone who seemed to be problematic for our relationship got eliminated. He just thinks im keeping these people on the side which im not. I could care less about them.

 

SORRY RANTS. Figuring all this nonsense out with my furniture plain SUCKS. I will probably do it face to face.

 

 

Its not a rant... you doing the right thing.

 

Just tell him the Universe does not care if we are together so what i'm doing is nor EVIL nor GOOD.