Needing the Truth

[ShatteredLady]

if I've tried to bring it up all he says is "why bring it up now, we're moving on aren't we?"

 

 

He's one of these that seems to get off by making me feel inferior and I always end up apologising for nothing, when I cry he just says things like "well I'm glad you understand your part in it", I don't know the correct term for this but in a way he's an emotional bully.

 

I am scared to leave him, I have nowhere to go and no friends where we are,.

 

 

For 6-9 months I thought that everything was my fault! I had no idea that the OW was back in our lives. He made me feel incredibly guilty & stupid for even suggesting that any OW could be a contributing factor.

 

I WAS STUPID. Even when I found her had sent her Mothers Day flowers "To the best mother in the world. ALL MY LOVE" I believed they were "just friends".

 

I repeatedly said sorry. In the end I couldn't say a single sentence without ending "I'm sorry!". All I've ever did was apologize. I had no idea what for!!! He said that if he had to tell me I'd only be doing the 'right things' because he told me to & not because I loved him! In the end I screamed "I'm just sorry, so sorry for f**king existing!!" That's honestly how I felt.

 

My H gaslights me to. I DON'T believe that you are paranoid or anything else. Your husband is driving you INSANE!! I have been there! The day after I finally got into some of his email & learnt the truth he shouted at me "Stop picking the bloody scab!! Why can't you let it go?!??". After ONE DAY of knowing!! After 9 MONTHS of torture!!

 

Even now if I ask if he thinks I'm at fault he just says, "Well that's a double-edged sword isn't it?". I was recovering from life saving surgery. I wasn't making him feel "special enough" in the 8 WEEKS I'd had to recover before he brought her into our lives!! After 26 YEARS, 8 weeks of a septic body & the surgeon ripping me open again when he removed a staple, it was/is MY FAULT!!

 

He needed to feel "special". He didn't think it was fair to tolerate a sick wife (even though he was working 12 hours a day & I was caring for 2 little kids in the summer holiday alone...when surgeons said I needed 24 hour care) why should he have to shop for food & stick pre-prepared food in the microwave when he should be living a life of "Love, Romance & Adventure!".

 

No! He can't go in the sodding pub where she works so all his mates can make him feel like THE MAN for screwing a 20 year old bar maid....what a bloody cliche!! PATHETIC!!!

[ShatteredLady]

PLEASE listen to Mrs Adams!! She knows EXACTLY what she's talking about. She truly gets-it on every level. She has been a tremendous help to me.

[ShatteredLady]

Thank you Mrs JA, I am comforted in your words that I am not at fault and he should be showing me he wants to be with me. By him messaging her he is already disrespecting me, I'm his comfy pair of slippers at home and I know I deserve more.

 

 

I honestly cannot think of any way he has proven to me that he deserves the gift of reconciliation; our romantic weekend away was tainted by him texting her, he constantly makes me cry and feel inadequate (moreso when he's had a drink), he belittles me in front of people and he tells me I need to forget it and move on - with no apology or explanation.

 

 

Another thing that springs to mind is only recently he's talked about going back in the pub where she works and socialising with our friends in there...I've told him no way is this going to happen and is he crazy! I cannot believe he'd even mention this or why he'd want to go back in, only weeks ago he was telling me he never wanted to go in there again and he never wanted to see her again, now all of a sudden he's prepared to go back in and humiliate me all over again...

 

 

To treat you with such coldness & contempt I would BET YOU that, at least, the emotional aspect of their affair is ongoing.

 

My H only shows me any concern when he's out of the affair 'fog'. You know he's treating you so badly to justify his appalling behavior to himself don't you?

[BetrayedH]

The common pattern for cheaters is to lie, deny, minimize, gaslight, and lie some more. Meanwhile, you are trying to convince him that he's cheating. You realize that you will never convince him because he will just lie, deny, minimize, gaslight, and repeat, right?

 

You don't need to convince him. You just need to convince yourself. And I don't think you need to convince yourself of one more thing. He cheated. He's not sorry. That's unacceptable behavior in a marriage. So, you don't accept it.

 

You don't need to confront him. The best confrontation is done via the service of divorce papers. IF he shows true remorse, sufficient that you think you might be able to forgive, then you could always pause the proceedings. Until he shows true remorse and real ACTIONS to demonstrate it, your default position should be to divorce. He broke the marital contract. It was his choice. You're just filing the paperwork.

 

Look your self-esteem, your self-worth, and your self-pride is in the toilet as this man has you convinced that he's a prize of which you are hardly worthy. On top of that, he's had a fling with a young woman and that's surely done a number in your ego. So you sit here accepting whatever scraps of affection you can get. What you must realize is that continuing this dynamic worsens your self-pride. You are accepting far less than you deserve and that further damages your view of yourself. You need to stop this cycle.

 

If you meet an attorney, you will feel proud that you stood up for yourself despite of your fears. If you file for divorce, you will feel proud that you did not accept unacceptable treatment. If you leave this sorry excuse for a man even though you are afraid, you will feel proud of your courage. And if you keep taking actions of which you are proud, your self-pride has no choice but to return.

 

Are you proud of staying where you are? No? Then don't stay there. I'd suggest you make a decision that respects yourself. Leave this man. And don't let him back in your life until you feel you'd be proud of that choice. As Mrs JA has said, let this man convince you that he deserves the gift of reconciliation. He is not the prize. YOU are the prize.

[BTDT2012]

Are you proud of staying where you are? No? Then don't stay there. I'd suggest you make a decision that respects yourself. Leave this man. And don't let him back in your life until you feel you'd be proud of that choice. As Mrs JA has said, let this man convince you that he deserves the gift of reconciliation. He is not the prize. YOU are the prize.

 

 

You don't need proof that he is cheating to leave. See an attorney. Make a plan. Your husband doesn't deserve the gift of reconciliation.

[ShatteredLady]

So....I read an email where my H was going on about how she was "The last thing he thought about before he went to sleep & the first thing he thought of in the morning". It was written after we'd been out on a date & had a romantic night.

 

I remembered how he'd come home the next day & I'd tried to hug & kiss him (after the night before) & he pushed me away. I cried & said "sorry" (again!! Ugh!) & begged to know what I'd done wrong from the previous night. He smirked with contempt, "You know sometimes the spark just doesn't catch!".

 

I remembered how I'd spent that whole night crying in a ball on the bathroom floor. I hated myself. I hated my scars & my body. I thought how awful at 'romance' I must be to kill his "spark" in one night. I wanted to die & be with my brother.

 

He did that to me because he woke to a message from OW & wrote that back!! From the email I found I realized that he was reading my private journal!! He was reading how he was destroying me. He read my pain & anguish, how I was blaming myself & loathing myself for killing his love AND he couldn't care less! I wanted to die & he was telling OW how I moaned & felt sorry for myself. He had no respect. Quite the opposite, he had utter contempt for me because (as he wrote to his friend) OW had such a great bum!!

 

That was it! I told him that him & her obviously had this great love, star-crossed lovers kept apart by the wicked wife. I was filing for divorce. He should go to her & live happily ever after...

 

Suddenly he was in tears. "Why did he only realize what he was loosing when it went too far?". Suddenly he had been contemplating suicide if he lost me (brutal manipulation after knowing how my brothers death destroyed everyone including his CHILDREN). He would never speak to her again. He needed & loved ME & our kids (Who he'd been calling a burden that made his life miserable!)

 

It's only when I was strong & had enough of all the crap that he actually felt bad & stopped rolling his eyes at my pathetic attempts to keep our family together.

 

We are now back in England after 18 years in America. He left his job, his friends, his life. We're living with my parents!!! We are selling our beautiful huge home in America. He's being kind & gentle (almost smothering me with concern for my health) the perfect loving husband....As long as I don't mention the huge bloody elephant that's crushing me!!!

 

He's still too 'proud', 'guilty', whatever to give me what I truly need. He thinks that I should be completely 'over-it', as if nothing had ever happened. He still says thoughtless things if I raise the subject. I still have zero selfesteem.

I believe that if some poor woman is going through a hard time he's 'too nice' to ignore her. He will lend a shoulder to her. He will be too flattered, 'too much Mr Nice Guy' to say "No! I'm a married father. I love my wife!". He will 'innocently' believe that he's falling in love again & somehow it's all MY fault because if I was good enough he wouldn't have those feelings.

 

 

I was about your age (bit younger) with no children the first time he changed, he was cruel & abusive to justify to himself the appaling thing he was doing for ego strokes. People say that I wouldn't have my children if I'd just left the first time BUT I'd have different children, a different life. I would never know everything I'd miss out on BUT I'd never know this agony, this self loathing, fighting with all of myself to repair a marriage only to be betrayed so brutally again 12 YEARS later when I'm older & sick.

 

If I'd left when I was YOUR AGE I would have a different love story, a different family & a different life. I would of been terrified to start again BUT I would have. Him & his cruelty & contempt would be a distant memory. I wouldn't have a marriage scared by betrayal & agony.

 

As I said in my first post to you, I'm a huge fan of reconciliation. I believe that way, way too many people don't fight for their marriages & work to fix what's broken rather than throwing it away for something new & shiny. I'm still married. We're starting again, AGAIN! I tell myself that if he ever does it again I'm gone BUT I know it will take YEARS for him to show any true remorse, YEARS for me to feel any kind of safety & security. It did the first time....THEN he did it AGAIN!!

 

He isn't remorseful. He doesn't accept all the responsibility. He still acts like it was beyond his control, he 'thought he was in-love with her', what could he do? He's LIKE YOUR HUSBAND!

 

I'm so jealous of all the people here who are reconciling!! They talk about their husband's terrible guilt & pain, how he holds them when they trigger & cry. How he keeps crying sorry & tries to make them feel better, stronger, SAFE. I cry from jealousy when I read it because it will NEVER be mine.

 

Will it ever be yours?

 

If "NO!" please, PLEASE leave before it shatters you & it's too late to have the marriage, children & FAMILY that you truly want in your life.

 

I'm so very sorry that you're enduring this. I know an unknown future is terrifying. Please don't let that stop you from persuing the life you NEED & want.

[LivingWaterPlease]

MrsR1981, from what I've seen over many years your husband most likely won't change his cheating ways unless he believes he's going to lose you.

 

Other posters have written you wise advice. In your place with your husband's behavior and attitude and since you have no children I would leave him. It's possible he'll come after you begging you to stay. Then you can decide what you want to do to have him be accountable to you and what you need to rebuild trust in the R. But don't leave him as a game or a method to get him to change. Leave because you don't want to be treated this way.

 

From what you describe in your place I believe I'd leave him with no chance of later reconciliation.

[Confused48]

Unfortunately, what you already know is enough, too much. Knowing what you know and that he knows what you know and you still won't leave him, well that makes him superman cake eater extraordinaire.

 

He knows he can minimize the grief he gets from you by lying to you about his girl on the side but if you do find out more about his activities, you won't do a thing about it. Except cry a bit and make him uncomfortable for a few days. He's had no serious consequences for what he's done.

 

So if you won't leave him, let him have his side piece. Just ask him to be discrete but stop creating a bunch of drama around it. It won't change anything.

[sandylee1]

I fear that you will give up having children and he'll leave you for her or another younger woman down the line. He clearly likes them young and he's not even pretending to be nice to you.

 

You can do a lot better than this.

 

From the pub and village talk I deduce you're in the UK?

The CAB are also helpful in finding out initial info regarding finances in a split.

[ShatteredLady]

Can I clarify?.....

 

Did the affair start AFTER you moved or have you moved closer to her? Into the village where she works?

[BaileyB]

You don't need any more evidence that he is cheating to divorce him... What you have is more than enough to make the decision. And may I add, you also have proof that he is an unsupportive and unloving husband. If you want to leave and file for divorce, you would be very justified. Nobody would question your decision. Case closed.

 

The only thing that keeps you from leaving is fear.

 

But, can you imagine living the rest of your life wondering if he's messaging or cheating with this woman, or any other... Say, she gets older and he decides he wants someone younger... Or, she meets someone younger and decides she doesn't want to be with a 50 year old man anymore... If their relationship ends for whatever reason, there is nothing stopping him from meeting another woman. If he's done it once, with no regret, he will do it again...

 

Think of it this way, if your beloved mum was here with you... What would she want for you. I can imagine that she would want you to be safe and happy with a man who loves and supports you... Is this man who cheats and emotionally abuses you a man that you can be proud to call your husband? Would your mum want you to stay with this kind of man or would she encourage you to be brave and look for the happiness you deserve on your own/with another man who will love you and support you in a healthy way.

Edited January 11, 2017 by BaileyB

[Birdies]

BuddyX thank you for responding, I have my 'evidence' folder of everything, but the last time I confronted him was September last year; if I've tried to bring it up all he says is "why bring it up now, we're moving on aren't we?"

 

 

He's one of these that seems to get off by making me feel inferior and I always end up apologising for nothing, when I cry he just says things like "well I'm glad you understand your part in it", I don't know the correct term for this but in a way he's an emotional bully.

 

 

I've tried the PI route, but its more email / phone contact that physical contact at the moment.

 

 

I am scared to leave him, I have nowhere to go and no friends where we are, I feel in a very difficult and sad situation.

 

This is terrible, it's emotional abuse and he obviously has no respect for you. Cheating on you and blaming you for it and expecting you to grovel to him?!

 

Leave him. You are worthy of respect and love. You can do it!

[ShatteredLady]

How did his first marriage/relationship (mother of step children) end? Did he leave for a younger woman?

 

I don't mean 'Oh they argued all the time. She was controlling...' or whatever else he's said. I'm basically asking 'Who dumped who' & WHY?

 

 

Are you ok?

[MrsR1981]

Can I clarify?.....

 

Did the affair start AFTER you moved or have you moved closer to her? Into the village where she works?

 

The affair started 3 months after we moved and I was working at home full time - he was out seeing 'clients' or so I thought...we went to the pub one evening and they spent all night flirting, and then ended the night with a kiss.

 

 

We've known her 5 years, so when we lived out of the area (over an hour away), we used to travel to this village to see friends, it became a bit of a social life for us but we always went together since it was so far away. It actually makes me feel sick to think she was a 16 year old wearing braces and being a child and 4 years later my husband is having sexual feelings towards her...

[MrsR1981]

How did his first marriage/relationship (mother of step children) end? Did he leave for a younger woman?

 

I don't mean 'Oh they argued all the time. She was controlling...' or whatever else he's said. I'm basically asking 'Who dumped who' & WHY?

 

 

Are you ok?

 

We met when he was separated from his wife, I refused to be with him until he had finalised things with her as I didn't want to be 'the other woman'. I do believe he cheated on his previous wife with me though...I was 21 and infatuated with him, and here I am 14 years later living through the same hell his ex probably did :-(

[MrsR1981]

I fear that you will give up having children and he'll leave you for her or another younger woman down the line. He clearly likes them young and he's not even pretending to be nice to you.

 

You can do a lot better than this.

 

From the pub and village talk I deduce you're in the UK?

The CAB are also helpful in finding out initial info regarding finances in a split.

 

I fear you are right, my biggest worry is he's going to do it again - his wife was 35 when we met and I was 21, now I'm 35 and OW was 20, I have no guarantee he's not going to do this again

[MrsR1981]

So....I read an email where my H was going on about how she was "The last thing he thought about before he went to sleep & the first thing he thought of in the morning". It was written after we'd been out on a date & had a romantic night.

 

I remembered how he'd come home the next day & I'd tried to hug & kiss him (after the night before) & he pushed me away. I cried & said "sorry" (again!! Ugh!) & begged to know what I'd done wrong from the previous night. He smirked with contempt, "You know sometimes the spark just doesn't catch!".

 

I remembered how I'd spent that whole night crying in a ball on the bathroom floor. I hated myself. I hated my scars & my body. I thought how awful at 'romance' I must be to kill his "spark" in one night. I wanted to die & be with my brother.

 

He did that to me because he woke to a message from OW & wrote that back!! From the email I found I realized that he was reading my private journal!! He was reading how he was destroying me. He read my pain & anguish, how I was blaming myself & loathing myself for killing his love AND he couldn't care less! I wanted to die & he was telling OW how I moaned & felt sorry for myself. He had no respect. Quite the opposite, he had utter contempt for me because (as he wrote to his friend) OW had such a great bum!!

 

That was it! I told him that him & her obviously had this great love, star-crossed lovers kept apart by the wicked wife. I was filing for divorce. He should go to her & live happily ever after...

 

Suddenly he was in tears. "Why did he only realize what he was loosing when it went too far?". Suddenly he had been contemplating suicide if he lost me (brutal manipulation after knowing how my brothers death destroyed everyone including his CHILDREN). He would never speak to her again. He needed & loved ME & our kids (Who he'd been calling a burden that made his life miserable!)

 

It's only when I was strong & had enough of all the crap that he actually felt bad & stopped rolling his eyes at my pathetic attempts to keep our family together.

 

We are now back in England after 18 years in America. He left his job, his friends, his life. We're living with my parents!!! We are selling our beautiful huge home in America. He's being kind & gentle (almost smothering me with concern for my health) the perfect loving husband....As long as I don't mention the huge bloody elephant that's crushing me!!!

 

He's still too 'proud', 'guilty', whatever to give me what I truly need. He thinks that I should be completely 'over-it', as if nothing had ever happened. He still says thoughtless things if I raise the subject. I still have zero selfesteem.

I believe that if some poor woman is going through a hard time he's 'too nice' to ignore her. He will lend a shoulder to her. He will be too flattered, 'too much Mr Nice Guy' to say "No! I'm a married father. I love my wife!". He will 'innocently' believe that he's falling in love again & somehow it's all MY fault because if I was good enough he wouldn't have those feelings.

 

 

I was about your age (bit younger) with no children the first time he changed, he was cruel & abusive to justify to himself the appaling thing he was doing for ego strokes. People say that I wouldn't have my children if I'd just left the first time BUT I'd have different children, a different life. I would never know everything I'd miss out on BUT I'd never know this agony, this self loathing, fighting with all of myself to repair a marriage only to be betrayed so brutally again 12 YEARS later when I'm older & sick.

 

If I'd left when I was YOUR AGE I would have a different love story, a different family & a different life. I would of been terrified to start again BUT I would have. Him & his cruelty & contempt would be a distant memory. I wouldn't have a marriage scared by betrayal & agony.

 

As I said in my first post to you, I'm a huge fan of reconciliation. I believe that way, way too many people don't fight for their marriages & work to fix what's broken rather than throwing it away for something new & shiny. I'm still married. We're starting again, AGAIN! I tell myself that if he ever does it again I'm gone BUT I know it will take YEARS for him to show any true remorse, YEARS for me to feel any kind of safety & security. It did the first time....THEN he did it AGAIN!!

 

He isn't remorseful. He doesn't accept all the responsibility. He still acts like it was beyond his control, he 'thought he was in-love with her', what could he do? He's LIKE YOUR HUSBAND!

 

I'm so jealous of all the people here who are reconciling!! They talk about their husband's terrible guilt & pain, how he holds them when they trigger & cry. How he keeps crying sorry & tries to make them feel better, stronger, SAFE. I cry from jealousy when I read it because it will NEVER be mine.

 

Will it ever be yours?

 

If "NO!" please, PLEASE leave before it shatters you & it's too late to have the marriage, children & FAMILY that you truly want in your life.

 

I'm so very sorry that you're enduring this. I know an unknown future is terrifying. Please don't let that stop you from persuing the life you NEED & want.

 

I feel like I am reading my own story here, my husband feels no remorse, he's spent the last 6 months trying to protect himself and blame me, I really do feel he gets off from seeing me so hurt and upset, I am tired of the despair eating away at me. There is so much amazing advice and support here it really has made me think overnight that I need a plan

[road]

We met when he was separated from his wife, I refused to be with him until he had finalised things with her as I didn't want to be 'the other woman'. I do believe he cheated on his previous wife with me though...I was 21 and infatuated with him, and here I am 14 years later living through the same hell his ex probably did :-(

 

He was a cheater then and is one now.

[MrsR1981]

He was a cheater then and is one now.

 

Yes, you are right, its just hard leaving and not knowing what to expect

[waterwoman]

Yes, you are right, its just hard leaving and not knowing what to expect

 

Would it be any harder than what you are experiencing now?

 

It sounds like he is a man that can't/won't be faithful and no matter how good you are to him it won't be enough. It's not you, it's him and if it makes you feel any better, she'll be in your position sooner or later.

[BuddyX]

Let me preface by saying this is not the reason why you should leave the marriage. But when you finally let go and walk away, you'll get a boost in confidence when your ExH gets on his knees and begs for forgiveness and wants you back at any cost. Happened to me. Seriously, felt good to see your cheating spouse reduced to this.

 

Look, youre a 30 something woman with no kids. I've been on over 50 dates with women your age. You guys can rule the world. Traveling, hiking, working, working out. You can do anything.

 

It's not scarry. Just a pause and reset.

[BaileyB]

We met when he was separated from his wife, I refused to be with him until he had finalised things with her as I didn't want to be 'the other woman'. I do believe he cheated on his previous wife with me though...I was 21 and infatuated with him, and here I am 14 years later living through the same hell his ex probably did :-(

 

Well, that certainly tells you that there is a pattern of behavior. You really need to do what is right for you and leave this man. You may just be surprised at how good the freedom will feel...

[BetrayedH]

I think you should embrace the opportunity to leave and reinvent yourself. You can begin a second life, and be wiser from the first. Rather than fearing it, I think you should get kinda excited about it. It won't be long before you're glad that you left this guy. And you'll wonder why you stayed so long.

[aliveagain]

You do not need reason's to leave, you need reasons to stay. You need to draw your line in the sand and defend it rather then move it with each new discovery or trickle truth. It is up to him to convince you that he is worth the effort of reconciliation and not the other way around. Did you give him your requirement's for reconciliation? No contact, independent counselling to find out why he gave himself the approval to cheat, his 100% commitment to the marriage , a deadline date at which time you would re-evaluate the status of your marriage?

 

If he never got professional help to fix what is broken then the best you can expect is similar behaviour. Your best predictor of your future together is to look at your history. I think your doing too much of the work alone, it is time to talk to a lawyer and cut out his cake eating by shutting down his bakery. My suggestion to you is file for divorce, divorce takes time and you can stop the process anytime up to the final decree. Give him your requirements for reconciliation, if he can't meet them to your satisfaction, well, why waste anymore time on a broken serial cheater? He will be able to add the word broke to that list as divorce will have a serious effect on his lifestyle. You deserve better then a part time husband.

[Mrs. John Adams]

You do not need reason's to leave, you need reasons to stay. You need to draw your line in the sand and defend it rather then move it with each new discovery or trickle truth. It is up to him to convince you that he is worth the effort of reconciliation and not the other way around. Did you give him your requirement's for reconciliation? No contact, independent counselling to find out why he gave himself the approval to cheat, his 100% commitment to the marriage , a deadline date at which time you would re-evaluate the status of your marriage?

 

If he never got professional help to fix what is broken then the best you can expect is similar behaviour. Your best predictor of your future together is to look at your history. I think your doing too much of the work alone, it is time to talk to a lawyer and cut out his cake eating by shutting down his bakery. My suggestion to you is file for divorce, divorce takes time and you can stop the process anytime up to the final decree. Give him your requirements for reconciliation, if he can't meet them to your satisfaction, well, why waste anymore time on a broken serial cheater? He will be able to add the word broke to that list as divorce will have a serious effect on his lifestyle. You deserve better then a part time husband.

 

yes yes yes

 

 

He has already provided you with the reasons to leave...he has given you no reasons to stay.

 

You have nothing to fear...you have a golden opportunity to start a new life....to find a man ... who will love and respect you for who you are....

 

Go for it!

 

I gave my husband many reasons to stay...I embraced his gift of reconciliation and vowed to make him never regret it. I have lived up to that vow...HOWEVER....it has been a long difficult road.....well worth the effort...but it has not been easy....

 

Not because we don't get along......but because the infidelity still lives in the yard. There have been many times over these past years that i have wondered if he would have healed quicker...if he had divorced me and found someone new....but oh i am so very glad he didn't.

 

Don't be afraid...be prepared....if you prepare yourself....the unknown will be less frightening.