Timshel Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Divorced normal dude neighbor says the women are very aggressive, bat coo and not to be taken seriously. He says he won't marry again... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 How about marriage minded women seek marriage minded men and vice versa? Well said. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Why would anyone want to trap a guy with a pregnancy, right?? and that happens just about every day, I suppose.. Otherwise, I agree 100% .. TFY You can't trap anybody by getting pregnant. All the man has to do is pay child support and go on his merry way.... and some don't even do that. This notion of getting 'trapped', when you can wear a condom and take responsibility is a load of bull. I think men with that attitude are best staying single and fatherless. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 You can't trap anybody by getting pregnant. All the man has to do is pay child support and go on his merry way.... and some don't even do that. This notion of getting 'trapped', when you can wear a condom and take responsibility is a load of bull. I think men with that attitude are best staying single and fatherless. Pay child support(for what could be the rest of your natural life), for something you never wanted or were deceived into is "going on your merry way".....ok...can you tell me another bedtime story, grandma?? Do yourself a favor, because I can't be bothered really... Google the horror stories from men who got burned...There are articles and pages upon pages of these tales...Ok...You want to say never have sex, then, well fine...see how well that goes.. Then tell us again how no one gets trapped... TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gloria25 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 You can't trap anybody by getting pregnant. All the man has to do is pay child support and go on his merry way.... and some don't even do that. This notion of getting 'trapped', when you can wear a condom and take responsibility is a load of bull. I think men with that attitude are best staying single and fatherless. I'm sorry, but think a lot of times a guy goes in with good intentions. There are men who want marriage and children - believe it or not. Some religions say that a man commits half of his religion when he marries. I saw a good 60 Minutes a while back where rehabilitation for terrorists included getting them married ASAP. WHY? Cuz, I believe it has a lot to do with biology - where men feel fulfilled when they are providing and protecting. Having children and a spouse gives comfort and purpose to people. So, like I said in my previous post in this thread, sad thing is that yes, there was a time where women were oppressed and had no rights. But, the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction where men now a days have been reduced to "sperm donors, wallets, and part-time babysitters"...so, put a ring on her, put a baby in her and then leave her alone. Don't touch her or expect anything from her. Do your duty and pay your child support (or bills if you decide to stay married to her - aka "wallet"), help her watch the baby (aka "part-time babysitter"), and give her another kid when she's ready (aka "sperm donor"). I see it on TV, in real life, on the radio. Dude marries with good intentions but when ring gets put on and baby comes, he's a creep and needs to leave her alone already. Some men actually want to parent/father and be a husband...unfortunately, we live in a society where people are disposable and a lot of women are now the oppressors. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Pay child support(for what could be the rest of your natural life), for something you never wanted or were deceived into is "going on your merry way".....ok...can you tell me another bedtime story, grandma?? Do yourself a favor, because I can't be bothered really... Google the horror stories from men who got burned...There are articles and pages upon pages of these tales...Ok...You want to say never have sex, then, well fine...see how well that goes.. Then tell us again how no one gets trapped... TFY If a man or woman doesn't want a child, then you must take precautions not to do so. I know a guy who used condoms and would take it off after sex ... knot it up and take it to the trash outside. Nobody could trap this guy and the girl who told me this, was trying to get pregnant. As men have no say in a termination, they better take responsibility before it gets to that stage. Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 If a man or woman doesn't want a child, then you must take precautions not to do so. I know a guy who used condoms and would take it off after sex ... knot it up and take it to the trash outside. Nobody could trap this guy and the girl who told me this, was trying to get pregnant. As men have no say in a termination, they better take responsibility before it gets to that stage. Here is a guy that impregnated his wife....with twins.....AFTER he had a vasectomy!! Cromartie expecting twins after Jets corner has vasectomy - NY Daily News All of this is immaterial... The mere fact is that men get trapped with kids...It happens every day...So the fact that one guy took better precaution than someone else, is akin to justifying robbery or claiming it doesn't exist, by saying one guy never got robbed because he was packing a gun... TFY Link to post Share on other sites
CaliforniaGirl Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Such a long thread! As a woman, if I were divorced, I would not marry again. I would have a lover if I could find a great one (who also thought I was great), and I can be loving and caring, but marriage...no. Link to post Share on other sites
junebug1 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Here is a guy that impregnated his wife....with twins.....AFTER he had a vasectomy!! Cromartie expecting twins after Jets corner has vasectomy - NY Daily News All of this is immaterial... The mere fact is that men get trapped with kids...It happens every day...So the fact that one guy took better precaution than someone else, is akin to justifying robbery or claiming it doesn't exist, by saying one guy never got robbed because he was packing a gun... TFY I'm not saying there aren't women who use pregnancy to keep / "trap" a man. I bet there are cases of men doing that to women, too. Bottom line is, no one should be lying about being on birth control and doing that to a partner. That is craziness and horrifying (and sounds like it could be illegal?). But as you showed with your link, there are unplanned pregnancies even in loving, trusting relationships, and there's no surefire birth control if you have sex. So not just women, but men need to take their own precautions. I'm not trying to victim blame. It's just this is such an important life-changing issue for both men and women. If you don't want a baby made, both man and woman should be wise enough and make the effort to ensure they're doing the best THEY can to not impregnate/get pregnant. That guy who made the effort with tying up / throwing out the condom was smart, but that was kind of just average adult smart... I don't think it's really even going the extra mile. It was simply understanding the risks and his place in a possible pregnancy. How are other situations where guys don't do that comparable to being robbed defenseless? If it's consensual sex, these are preventative measures *anyone* can take. Wanting things to feel natural and not putting in the effort themselves to ensure the least possible chance of a baby being made seems naive and lazy to me. I don't think you can count on one of the two parties to prevent something that isn't even failsafe. Again, a partner who lies about birth control to trap the other partner - that's horrifying and immoral. But apparently people are crazy, and babies can always happen, so it is beyond me why someone (men in your case) would not make more effort in birth control. Both parties need to own up to their responsibility in preventative measures. I think what we also need are more birth control options for men. - It seems in that article that the issue with that round was that the birth control shots for men resulted in "definitely" more severe emotional problems (severe depression; one suicide attempt) and that "they're still a decade away from coming up with something for men." Link to post Share on other sites
junebug1 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) So, I'm not a man nor am I close to being married, but I wanted to voice some thoughts on this / agree with some points stated. I think you said or implied that marriage has kind of become this normalized thing people do because of culture / society, which I agree on. I see you asking "Why??" would men do such a thing, looking for one exact specific logical definite reason. Or maybe not, since it's a survey question. Well... why do people do anything?? Everyone will have different reasons. If it's for love.. maybe they want to make it 'official' and celebrate their love. So many things in life are a gamble.. (which someone else said in their comment). If they truly believe they found the person they want to spend their life with and think marriage will enhance their relationship - why not? If people grow up in a society where marriage is seen as a regular social / cultural tradition to confirm, make official, celebrate, etc. their love, then I think it's "normal" to want to marry. It's just a step in their life plan and goals, etc. I could question why we do anything / say that everything we do is because of society. If you grow up in a society, you're going to conform to at least some aspects of that society. My whole entering school for K-12, getting a degree, and current career goals -- are probably also things I've learned to want within the context of society. It just becomes something many people want / work for. And then if it's not that kind of love, maybe people get married for stability. They think "at least we will have each other" or "at least this is one constant/certainty in my life." Or to escape family. Or to not die alone. Maybe to fit in with what they think is normal. Because they don't know what else they should pursue in their life path. I've had past friends who married young, and some of them divorced. I think part of their reasons for marriage fell in this general category. And then as others have stated, legal benefits (I think I've heard about taxes? Maybe property stuff. And as I've learned from these comments - when the death of a spouse occurs.) I think you also sort of discounted someone's religious reasons for doing so as being an individual case versus generalized, but I think religion and a connection to God / a commitment in front of God is a big reason for many people in the US. I don't know what it's like in the Netherlands, though. Am I wrong to think that a lot of your concern with marriage is a distrust of women / women these days? That comes to mind because of your comments about how divorce is unfair to the men, and your responses to other commenters about unfaithful wives taking all they can from the ex husband. Your first post talked about men choosing to not marry, resulting in low marriage statistics. But how do you know women aren't also making the choice to not marry? You bring up women divorcing because they found someone else. Okay, I don't condone cheating. But if we don't know the actual relationship within the marriage, how do we know that the husband had no responsibility in the deterioration of the marriage / relationship? I read the whole thread + responses, but it's hard to recall everything. Do you think people in relationships in this day/age are much different than when you got married? Your son is growing up in a new time as well. I know you said it was better in the past. We are seeing a lot of divorce nowadays, but being that these stats must be taken from people who are old enough to divorce, I kind of assume a lot of them are closer to your age than your son's age. Are they really representative of the world your son is going into, relationship/marriage/female partner-wise? (Maybe. It's a real question.) When I was a teenager, I saw a few of my friends' parents divorce - they were probably in their 40s. Maybe at the time they got married, things were different. Maybe they got married due to circumstance, and in this day / age, they're finding they don't need to stay in a relationship. Or they've fallen out of love and don't want to stay committed. So I don't think it's just an issue with "young" people today. I think the stigma of divorce has lessened in general today. So with that, we see middle-age / older people who have been in long-term marriages breaking up. And we see younger people with short term marriages breaking up. Just because divorce is happening more often these days, doesn't mean it's done by mostly young people. That's my opinion, so if you have stats against this, feel free to share. Also, are the concerns you bring up not things that can be prevented with a pre-nup? Or... maybe this is naivety on my part. But I would really just hope marriage to be a union between mature partner and mature partner, who trust each other, love each other as lovers AND human beings, and know each other enough to know they won't get screwed over. ~~~Edit/Afterthought: I think since, as you said, you have a loving / healthy marriage with your wife, you will be leading by example for your son. Maybe you're very protective of him, and not solely distrustful of the women these days. Optimistically, I think he has you and his mother to show him what a healthy marriage is *if he chooses to marry*; what to aim for; how to be a good husband or partner; how to find a partner with the same values, maturity, consideration, etc.; and how to weed out partners who don't. Edited January 6, 2017 by junebug1 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) I'm not saying there aren't women who use pregnancy to keep / "trap" a man. I bet there are cases of men doing that to women, too. Bottom line is, no one should be lying about being on birth control and doing that to a partner. That is craziness and horrifying (and sounds like it could be illegal?). But as you showed with your link, there are unplanned pregnancies even in loving, trusting relationships, and there's no surefire birth control if you have sex. So not just women, but men need to take their own precautions. I'm not trying to victim blame. It's just this is such an important life-changing issue for both men and women. If you don't want a baby made, both man and woman should be wise enough and make the effort to ensure they're doing the best THEY can to not impregnate/get pregnant. That guy who made the effort with tying up / throwing out the condom was smart, but that was kind of just average adult smart... I don't think it's really even going the extra mile. It was simply understanding the risks and his place in a possible pregnancy. How are other situations where guys don't do that comparable to being robbed defenseless? If it's consensual sex, these are preventative measures *anyone* can take. Wanting things to feel natural and not putting in the effort themselves to ensure the least possible chance of a baby being made seems naive and lazy to me. I don't think you can count on one of the two parties to prevent something that isn't even failsafe. Again, a partner who lies about birth control to trap the other partner - that's horrifying and immoral. But apparently people are crazy, and babies can always happen, so it is beyond me why someone (men in your case) would not make more effort in birth control. Both parties need to own up to their responsibility in preventative measures. I think what we also need are more birth control options for men. - It seems in that article that the issue with that round was that the birth control shots for men resulted in "definitely" more severe emotional problems (severe depression; one suicide attempt) and that "they're still a decade away from coming up with something for men." Yawn.... A woman can scuttle a fetus and not even tell the rightful father about it...And even if she does tell him and he wants the child, she is under no obligation to consider his feelings...Please tell me again how that is a "trap"...I suppose in a case of someone with strong religious beliefs and doesn't feel abortion is a viable option... But that's a rare scenario...Its like probably a ratio of 100:1... TFY Edited January 6, 2017 by thefooloftheyear Link to post Share on other sites
junebug1 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) Yawn.... A woman can scuttle a fetus and not even tell the rightful father about it...And even if she does tell him and he wants the child, she is under no obligation to consider his feelings...Please tell me again how that is a "trap"...I suppose in a case of someone with strong religious beliefs and doesn't feel abortion is a viable option... But that's a rare scenario...Its like probably a ratio of 100:1... TFY 1) You have decided to nitpick a side conjecture / statement I made while ignoring my main point that men can safely make more efforts to ensure a pregnancy doesn't happen. I am saying men have more power than you seem to think when it comes to safely preventing a pregnancy. Men have MORE POWER than you seem to think in avoiding being "trapped" with a baby. And more male forms of birth control also means more ways for men to control their own "fate" and avoid pregnancies. Isn't that a good thing? Or is that too much responsibility? 2) Let's say the 100:1 ratio you threw out there is statistically correct. That just supports my assumption, which was, "I bet there are cases of men doing that to women, too." I never said more than vice versa. I never said how frequently. Edited January 6, 2017 by junebug1 Link to post Share on other sites
Giggle Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Happened to me. Happened to my sister. Link to post Share on other sites
Otter2569 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Do I want to get married again? Nah, not really. I like people, most of the time, but not enough to marry. I hear you brother! I have dated some good and some crazy ass women. All I know is that I am happy having my own place to escape a few days a week. Although I am finally dating a wonderful sexy woman, I am not marriage material. I tried it once (18 years) and that was enough. My old man told me never to get married. I should have listened. I now tell my kids the same thing. No thank you! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 You get married in my country out of free will. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head to get married. Plenty of kids are born to unmarried parents if an unplanned pregnancy happens. Marriage is not required to raise a child. If you don't want to get married then don't. No one's going to lose any sleep over you not getting married. I, for one, would like to get married again some day. I still think marriage is a good thing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Arieswoman Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Just for interest from the other side of the "Pond".... https://www.relate.org.uk/sites/default/files/separation-divorce-factsheet-jan2014.pdf Link to post Share on other sites
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