I'm still unfortunate.

[Satu]

To make it clear, I'm saying *I* would be the one to be settled for, not them.

 

Ah well, some of us are destined to be lone I guess.

 

"No fate but what we make."

[Weezy1973]

OP you've mentioned women in your life, friends, those you are in classes with, those you volunteer with. How many (be honest!!) have you asked out on dates?

 

As you yourself have said, people a lot less attractive than you are getting dates and have girlfriends, so clearly it doesn't have anything to do with your attractiveness. I'm guessing you don't ask women out enough. And I'm not talking "cold approach". I'm talking about women you already have a rapport with.

[normal person]

To make it clear, I'm saying *I* would be the one to be settled for, not them.

 

Why do you think you're settled for at age 25? The human brain is still developing at that age. Guys that aren't done making stupid decisions yet. Their jobs aren't that great. Men that age are only marginally "better" (or more "valuable") than those fresh out of college.

 

Womens' "value" (on the sexual marketplace) is frontloaded. When they're 18-26, they're the queens of the world. They can get into clubs free, get free drinks, men of all ages are tripping over themselves just to talk to them. They can have basically anyone (and sometimes anything they want). While men are a dime a dozen at that age, their value starts rising as they ascend in their careers and start to distinguish themselves. A man's prime, if he's done well for himself along the way is about ages 28-35. He's got his career going for him, he's still in top shape, and his future is wide open and looking even better. All that and everything else commands a lot of respect and desire, especially from women realizing their "value" to men is starting to decrease as they age.

 

Trust me, if you play your cards right, don't mess up, and you're still single by your late 20s, you will not be settled for. You will be sought after and fought for by women 25-35. I'm 30 now, and I've got to say the past few years have been the best of my life for this exact reason.

 

It might be tough now, but it will get much, much easier as the tables slowly turn in your favor.

[LightWave93]

"No fate but what we make."

 

Sure, yes, because I haven't made enough effort to try figure out the problem.

 

OP you've mentioned women in your life, friends, those you are in classes with, those you volunteer with. How many (be honest!!) have you asked out on dates?

 

As you yourself have said, people a lot less attractive than you are getting dates and have girlfriends, so clearly it doesn't have anything to do with your attractiveness. I'm guessing you don't ask women out enough. And I'm not talking "cold approach". I'm talking about women you already have a rapport with.

 

I've told you, in recent months I have not asked any girls out on dates because of lack of opportunity (not meeting any) and because I'm demotivated to do so as the result is always the same. When I was asking girls out on dates, I was rejected. When I tried meeting girls online or offline, they weren't interested.

 

I am not romantically interested in any girls within my social circle nor are they interested in me.

 

Why do you think you're settled for at age 25? The human brain is still developing at that age. Guys that aren't done making stupid decisions yet. Their jobs aren't that great. Men that age are only marginally "better" (or more "valuable") than those fresh out of college.

 

And yet men who's jobs aren't great, or indeed don't have jobs and are continuing to get dates, sex, relationships etc. I know it, because I see it with my very eyes amongst people my age or younger.

 

Also, 25+, as that's when I expect to begin my career (Teaching, fyi), get my own place etc. If what you say is true and my value spikes as soon as I come into having material possessions, then that only goes to show that's the only thing I'm good for as prior to that I was coldy ignored.

 

Womens' "value" (on the sexual marketplace) is frontloaded. When they're 18-26, they're the queens of the world. They can get into clubs free, get free drinks, men of all ages are tripping over themselves just to talk to them.

 

Yup, and according to you I should just accept I can't experience dating with 18-26 year old women whilst I'm also in my early 20's.

Edited December 22, 2016 by LightWave93

[Satu]

snip

Sure, yes, *because I haven't made enough effort to try figure out the problem.

.

 

*I wouldn't say that.

 

My point was just that the future is not decided.

 

Things change, people change, situations change.

 

Of that much you can be sure.

 

 

Take care.

[LightWave93]

snip

 

 

*I wouldn't say that.

 

My point was just that the future is not decided.

 

Things change, people change, situations change.

 

Of that much you can be sure.

 

 

Take care.

 

I've been told similar before, and I'll give you the same answer.

 

It's not realistic to think this way. We can control our lives only so much, but sometimes we get no say in how it pans out.

[Satu]

I've been told similar before, and I'll give you the same answer.

 

It's not realistic to think this way. We can control our lives only so much, but sometimes we get no say in how it pans out.

 

This is hilarious.

 

I'm saying exactly the same thing as you, but you think I'm disagreeing with you.

 

I'll give it one more shot:

 

Things change, people change, situations change, therefore we do not have control of all the variables, and do not know what the future will be.

 

All any of us can do is to proceed in good will.

 

That good will is our part of a much bigger picture.

 

I am criticising neither your thought nor your actions.

[Weezy1973]

 

I've told you, in recent months I have not asked any girls out on dates because of lack of opportunity (not meeting any) and because I'm demotivated to do so as the result is always the same. When I was asking girls out on dates, I was rejected. When I tried meeting girls online or offline, they weren't interested.

 

I am not romantically interested in any girls within my social circle nor are they interested in me.

 

How many girls do you meet that you're romantically interested in? I mean actually meet and talk to? Not just see and wish...or not just send a message to online...actually meet up and talk to?

[LightWave93]

This is hilarious.

 

I'm saying exactly the same thing as you, but you think I'm disagreeing with you.

 

I'm disagreeing with your original claim of fate being one we make.

 

How many girls do you meet that you're romantically interested in? I mean actually meet and talk to? Not just see and wish...or not just send a message to online...actually meet up and talk to?

 

In the past six months? Non.

Like I said, I never meet anyone on a night out or doing my jobs/hobbies. As I'm not one of the more popular students, my social circles are limited.

[normal person]

 

And yet men who's jobs aren't great, or indeed don't have jobs and are continuing to get dates, sex, relationships etc. I know it, because I see it with my very eyes amongst people my age or younger.

 

We've established that they have some sort of appeal or skill that you lack or haven't exercised, that can't be determined through message board.

 

Also, 25+, as that's when I expect to begin my career (Teaching, fyi), get my own place etc. If what you say is true and my value spikes as soon as I come into having material possessions, then that only goes to show that's the only thing I'm good for as prior to that I was coldy ignored.

 

As I said in a previous post, get over it. You're not having luck now for whatever reason. Sorry? Basically everyone experiences it at some point, to some extent. When I was 23 and figuring out how to get on a new path, I remember feeling the same way. I didn't want to take some Hollywood job that would've destroyed my soul. Following that, I didn't have any real income and I felt emasculated, like no woman would want me until I was happy, and doing something with actual purpose successfully. So I figured it out. Granted, I've gained a lot of experience along the way, but things regarding women, happiness, life in general have grown exponentially better since. Here I am at 30 and I have a hard time imagining things being better than this. I don't know if there's anything I could've done at 23 that would've made things better for me in any arena. I wasn't done maturing, and I needed the life experience. Things might not go exactly as you want them at your age. If you can't do anything about it now (I still think you can, but it's tough to say when you insist there's no difference between you and anyone else who's "succesful") do what you can to plan for the future so when the stars do start aligning for you, you're ready.

 

Remember this feeling. If you play your cards right, you'll soon be the at the top of pile, and that will make it that much sweeter.

 

Yup, and according to you I should just accept I can't experience dating with 18-26 year old women whilst I'm also in my early 20's.

 

I'm not saying you can't, I'm saying we can't figure out the reason why you can't. Your friends are doing it, surely there's a way you can too. But as I said, there's only so much that can be diagnosed and dealt with over a message board.

[Weezy1973]

In the past six months? None.

Like I said, I never meet anyone on a night out or doing my jobs/hobbies. As I'm not one of the more popular students, my social circles are limited.

 

And before that how many women that you met in person and were attracted to did you ask out on dates? I'm assuming that you didn't ask anyone out while you were struggling with depression and anxiety, so between then and now.

[LightWave93]

Things might not go exactly as you want them at your age.

 

Of course, and I do accept that. We can't live life exactly how we would like to, and I'd be naive to think otherwise. I suppose my point is I will be regretful later on not having had the opportunity to be explore these experiences in my youth.

 

And before that how many women that you met in person and were attracted to did you ask out on dates? I'm assuming that you didn't ask anyone out while you were struggling with depression and anxiety, so between then and now.

 

I still have depression and anxiety, but the effects are much lesser if not negligible; I've had a over a year's worth of therapy plus I'm on anti-depressants. That said, before these last six months I was asking out any girl I felt connected/attracted to; again I still struggled to meet them and they were few-and-far between, but I did try. If I had as much luck with online dating/Tinder or had the same social circles as my peers, it would have been a lot more.

[Weezy1973]

I still have depression and anxiety, but the effects are much lesser if not negligible; I've had a over a year's worth of therapy plus I'm on anti-depressants. That said, before these last six months I was asking out any girl I felt connected/attracted to; again I still struggled to meet them and they were few-and-far between, but I did try. If I had as much luck with online dating/Tinder or had the same social circles as my peers, it would have been a lot more.

 

So a ballpark number of the women you asked out on dates? Again, not including women you messaged with online dating (unless you met them in person); just ones you met and connected with in person. When you go to a club and see a woman you find attractive, what do you do?

[LightWave93]

Seriously, I have a knack for checking this thread soon after a reply.

 

So a ballpark number of the women you asked out on dates? Again, not including women you messaged with online dating (unless you met them in person); just ones you met and connected with in person. When you go to a club and see a woman you find attractive, what do you do?

 

About 15-20 since October 2015.

 

Never approached a woman in a club. Not an environment I'd consider my forte , I can't hear ****, and I've never received signs of interest to give me the go ahead (from what I've seen of club culture, dancing close to you, eyeing you up etc). Not that any of them would want anything to do with me anyway.

 

And, just for further information, I've messaged must be around 200 girls online. I had my messages checked by people to see if they were okay and I was assured they were.

Edited December 23, 2016 by LightWave93

[Moves Like Jagger]

Lightwave, you posted your video of yourself on another website. What did you think of the feedback you got?

 

Looking back at your pictures, I'm reminded that most guys with your looks don't have a problem attracting women. It's definitely not your looks. You're ceiling is pretty high because of your looks.

 

Based on your video, I think it's your vibe. You didn't show much facial expressions. You talked in a monotone. Instead of talking about your hobbies and interests, you talked about the negative things that happened in your life.

 

I remember this nice guy who competed with this confident guy for the attention of a couple cute women. The nice guy was really quiet. He tried to talk to the women. He built commonality with one of the woman by talking about playing an instrument. When one of the woman asked him if he wanted to eat a cookie, he responded with a one-word answer before he stopped talking.

 

On the other hand, the confident guy was full of energy. He spoke with passion and expressed a lot of opinions. The guy owned the fact that he wasn't into drinking alcohol. Instead, he talked about his passion for drawing. He showed some portraits he drew through his cell phone. The confident guy was comfortable leading the conversation while the nice guy had no plan. It was no surprise that he sucked the girls into his reality and the two women loved being around him.

 

The reason I brought up those two guys was to illustrate the important of vibe. Looks gets you in the door while vibe sustains the interest.

[LightWave93]

Lightwave, you posted your video of yourself on another website. What did you think of the feedback you got?

 

Looking back at your pictures, I'm reminded that most guys with your looks don't have a problem attracting women. It's definitely not your looks. You're ceiling is pretty high because of your looks.

 

Based on your video, I think it's your vibe. You didn't show much facial expressions. You talked in a monotone. Instead of talking about your hobbies and interests, you talked about the negative things that happened in your life.

 

Feedback was the same as I always get. "Handsome", "Nothing wrong with the way you talk", "Have a lot going for you". Pretty sick and tired of hearing those comments to be perfectly honest.

 

If you also remember, the video was recorded specifically to talk about the negative things in my life whilst I was also ill. Not to mention I was talking straight into a camera, which is not something I'm accustomed to.

 

As for looks, I can't say I agree with you because as I've said before, women don't pay the slightest bit of attention/attraction to my appearance nor am I involved with anyone within a "pretty high ceiling" in looks.

[Weezy1973]

About 15-20 since October 2015.

 

Never approached a woman in a club. Not an environment I'd consider my forte , I can't hear ****, and I've never received signs of interest to give me the go ahead (from what I've seen of club culture, dancing close to you, eyeing you up etc). Not that any of them would want anything to do with me anyway.

 

And, just for further information, I've messaged must be around 200 girls online. I had my messages checked by people to see if they were okay and I was assured they were.

 

OK, so first don't worry about OLD, that's a whole other world and not really relevant.

 

You should also recognize that your lack of success has nothing to do with your level of attractiveness. For one, people of all levels of attractiveness usually get dates and have relationships - so that alone should tell you that it's not the issue.

 

So tell me about the 15-20 women you asked out on dates. How did you know them? How long did you know them before asking them out?

[LightWave93]

You should also recognize that your lack of success has nothing to do with your level of attractiveness. For one, people of all levels of attractiveness usually get dates and have relationships - so that alone should tell you that it's not the issue.

 

Still doesn't nullify my point of women not finding me attractive as evident by the fact they don't show interest or even so much as look at me. Never had a girl flirt with me. Never had a girl asked if I were single. The difference between how they interact with me and men they find appealing is as clear as day.

 

So tell me about the 15-20 women you asked out on dates. How did you know them? How long did you know them before asking them out?

 

Varying personality types. I met most of them through a group on Facebook that was setup for people beginning university the same time I was, whom I subsequently met during the first week. Just got talking through social media and/or in person and at different times in the interactions I would suggest going for a coffee or a similar activity. Most would say yes but I could tell it was in a friendly capacity, and some would reject and not make an effort to schedule. Dating here in the UK (or at least, from what I've seen) is different in that quite often people just go with the flow as opposed to asking out on dates or what have you.

[SwordofFlame]

The problem is your social circle. The number one way people meet, especially in your age range is through friends. Not online or in the bar or club. You mentioned having to use social media to meet new friends. Most people don't need social media to make friends. You are basically who you associate with. If no one in your social circle is dateable or wants to help you get a date, than of course you're going to struggle. The solution is to make new and attractive friends, but there is something about you that makes you not connect or get along with these attractive people. Based on what you've told us, no one here can figure it out. Maybe it's due to some kind of unattractive vibe you give off that you're not consciously aware of.

[LightWave93]

The problem is your social circle. The number one way people meet, especially in your age range is through friends. Not online or in the bar or club. You mentioned having to use social media to meet new friends. Most people don't need social media to make friends. You are basically who you associate with. If no one in your social circle is dateable or wants to help you get a date, than of course you're going to struggle. The solution is to make new and attractive friends, but there is something about you that makes you not connect or get along with these attractive people. Based on what you've told us, no one here can figure it out. Maybe it's due to some kind of unattractive vibe you give off that you're not consciously aware of.

 

Well all the "attractive" people live life as if it were a soap opera; 24/7 drinking and drama, so fat chance of me fitting in with that crowd (not that I'd want to).

 

The FB group was to meet upcoming students prior to uni starting, so it wasn't much different to meeting them in person. In fact if anything it gave me a head start as I was already in contact with 100+ people and it allowed for easier introduction when meeting them in person...albeit everyone filtered into their own groups and for awhile I was pretty much a loner. I still have these people on social media, but I don't speak to them as our friendship just never blossomed. Considering that and I work in jobs that put me in contact with lots of students, you'd think I'd have plenty of opportunities...but alas, none. Societies, activities outside of uni etc have also yielded no success.

 

As I said, I've met up with friends, dating coaches, people on the net and they all seem to like me and offer me no words to suggest what I'm doing wrong. In fact, the common thing I hear is I'm doing nothing wrong.

[SwordofFlame]

You mention depression, anxiety, being a loner at times. It seems like you just have problems connecting with people and building relationships on a deeper level. I'm sure you have no problem having surface level conversations with strangers, but for some reason you struggle to have it go further than that. It sounds like people don't get you and/or on the flipside, you don't get people either. Not sure what I can advise here to improve that. Do you ever show any vulnerability? Do you feel like you have to behave a certain way to make yourself attractive? If the answer is yes, you may come off as robotic and kind of fake. People can pick up on that. Your posts make you sound like an extremely analytical, self aware and perhaps self conscious person.

[LightWave93]

I'll quote a female friend who I allowed to read this thread and another on a different site.

 

I think that you are stronger and more mature than I first thought and you're freaking awesome...Because the way you wrote and the way you approach things is mature, and you're stronger because you've dealt with a lot and you're still a lovely, generous person

 

So at least I'm not perceived as a dick. Also, hi friend!!

 

You mention depression, anxiety, being a loner at times. It seems like you just have problems connecting with people and building relationships on a deeper level. I'm sure you have no problem having surface level conversations with strangers, but for some reason you struggle to have it go further than that. It sounds like people don't get you and/or on the flipside, you don't get people either. Not sure what I can advise here to improve that. Do you ever show any vulnerability? Do you feel like you have to behave a certain way to make yourself attractive? If the answer is yes, you may come off as robotic and kind of fake. People can pick up on that. Your posts make you sound like an extremely analytical, self aware and perhaps self conscious person.

 

I've had depression on-and-off for years, but it hit me hard during a difficult time in my long-term relationship (which ended soon after), the death of a loved one and then the start of university; all things hitting me at once, basically. I was in therapy and counselling for a year thereafter, and every single professional said at the end of my sessions something along the lines of me being a great person and that I will succeed in life.

 

How can I develop deeper connections if people, generally speaking, don't give me the time to do so? I do no different in my conversations than that of my friends, if anything I'd like to think I do better because a fair few of my friends are selfish and only talk about themselves as opposed to myself who genuinely does enjoying getting to know people. In regards to vulnerability; hell yes I do. Obviously I'm not going around being an overly-emotional male or "beta", but I'm definitely the sort of guy to show how I feel. 'n I don't behave in a different way for anyone, I'm just...me.

[ZA Dater]

You mention depression, anxiety, being a loner at times. It seems like you just have problems connecting with people and building relationships on a deeper level. I'm sure you have no problem having surface level conversations with strangers, but for some reason you struggle to have it go further than that. It sounds like people don't get you and/or on the flipside, you don't get people either. Not sure what I can advise here to improve that. Do you ever show any vulnerability? Do you feel like you have to behave a certain way to make yourself attractive? If the answer is yes, you may come off as robotic and kind of fake. People can pick up on that. Your posts make you sound like an extremely analytical, self aware and perhaps self conscious person.

 

I think there is possibly a lot of sense in this post. My personal opinion is that at 23 this shouldn't worry you too much to the point where it contaminates your life.

 

 

In my opinion the bold part is the very worst trait to have, I suffer from it each day and believe me it creates an unbelievably lonely life.

[Weezy1973]

Still doesn't nullify my point of women not finding me attractive as evident by the fact they don't show interest or even so much as look at me. Never had a girl flirt with me. Never had a girl asked if I were single. The difference between how they interact with me and men they find appealing is as clear as day.

 

Unreasonable expectations. To women, the vast majority of men are just a neutral blob of nothing. They're not attracted, nor are they repulsed. After they get to know you a bit, then their attraction might grow. There are very few men that illicit blatant flirting and interest based on looks alone.

 

Varying personality types. I met most of them through a group on Facebook that was setup for people beginning university the same time I was, whom I subsequently met during the first week. Just got talking through social media and/or in person and at different times in the interactions I would suggest going for a coffee or a similar activity. Most would say yes but I could tell it was in a friendly capacity, and some would reject and not make an effort to schedule. Dating here in the UK (or at least, from what I've seen) is different in that quite often people just go with the flow as opposed to asking out on dates or what have you.

 

So you actually didn't meet them in person to start? You got to know them online prior to meeting them?

 

OK so it's clear as day what the problem is. You're shy which means you fear rejection. Pretty common actually. You can tell just from your posts that you place a lot of importance on what other people think about you, and I'm guessing the most importance is placed on what women that you find attractive think of you. And so instead of taking risks and getting to know these women, you cross your fingers and hope for a blatant sign or flirting so you know that you won't get rejected if you ask them out.

 

That's not how it works though. You have to ask them on dates, and risk rejection.

 

So you want some success...make a plan to talk to at least 1 new woman you find attractive every week. Then after a few weeks, see if any of the women you've been talking to still pique your interest...is there a connection? Do you laugh together a lot? If so, ask them out on a date - and make it clear that it's a date. Even better have a plan before asking them. Just don't be ambiguous about it as they might mistake it for just a friendly coffee.

[LightWave93]

I think there is possibly a lot of sense in this post. My personal opinion is that at 23 this shouldn't worry you too much to the point where it contaminates your life.

 

Don't worry, I have other things on life that I focus on. Just a shame I can't get to experience love and sex during my youth.

 

Unreasonable expectations.

 

I'm not expecting women to treat me as if I were Johnny Depp or Chris Pratt, but I've seen with my very eyes that women will exhibit small signs of interest if they like a guy. It's not as uncommon as you paint it out to be.

 

So you actually didn't meet them in person to start? You got to know them online prior to meeting them?

 

Some. There were others I met at parties, through friends etc.

 

OK so it's clear as day what the problem is. You're shy which means you fear rejection.

 

I'm not and I don't.

 

So you want some success...make a plan to talk to at least 1 new woman you find attractive every week.

 

I don't meet women that often.

 

Then after a few weeks, see if any of the women you've been talking to still pique your interest...is there a connection? Do you laugh together a lot?

 

This does not happen. On the off chance I do meet a woman, they end up being a passing acquaintance.