Improbable Romance [UPDATE: Is "Stop" the Only Response?]

[CuriousQD]

I was plain tired of his games. Sometimes he came too obvious that he had an agenda and it was not me as in person but what he could gain out of me. Then when I saw it, I also saw what my husband has been doing for me all these years . I know it sounds strange, why i only see now but somehow I started to see all good yhings in my H. We had fights but still he loved me for ME notbecause he had an agenda.

 

I had already started NC and D Day happened. It came handy.

 

I miss the banter me and MM had . I miss his wooing words.But they were just words. If I see through it all, it was more of a pain and a lying life.

 

I'm glad you're making things work out at home. What do you think would happen if MM called again? Also, what is D Day?

[CuriousQD]

I am a current OW, so you should know I have nothing against this. But, some long distance relationships are harder than others. And this one you've decided to embark upon, is not going to be an easy one.

 

So, saying that: Regardless of how you feel about him and he may feel about you, you haven't really thought much about it sounds like about the whole long-term logistics of a relationship like this.

 

You live in the USA (?), he lives somewhere in the EU (?). You can only live over there for so many months on a tourist visa, & then they kick you out. Your other option is a fiance visa or a married persons visa - all of which you WILL need if you wish to long-term live together. But neither of those visa's are possible for you, or him, since he is Married.

 

So, not meaning to be crude, nor mean, but the reality is- : unless he decides to get a divorce- this will never be more than an expensive (literally - if you figure in overseas flights cost, lost pay, etc.) good-time romp holiday.

 

If you're ok with knowing the reality of that, then by all means go have some fun. But, if you're not, then, you really need to have a think about whether or not this is in your best emotional & financial long-term interest.

 

Well, you're right I haven't thought much about the long-term, but I really don't have any expectations of a divorce or breakup, living there or him living here. That's way too far. I have a life and family as well. I don't know how it ends, but the furthest I've thought is that he's a really cool guy who's shown me a reallllllllly good time, and helped me wake up.

[freengreen]

I'm glad you're making things work out at home. What do you think would happen if MM called again? Also, what is D Day?

Thanks QD:).Tough one that.. i took him back last time when he came back looking for me. It was no different after it. Its so hard to just let him go because " he is a good man"... but this time I will let him go I am not in for another game , he figuratively plays me like a puppet once I get charmed. So no.

 

D Day is Dooms day.. when your spouse knows about your affair.

[BTDT2012]

Is he sending for you, or are you running after him?

[freengreen]

Why is he sooooooo sweet? There must be a hundred women who are closer who he can carry on affairs with. Why bother with the American?

 

There ARE 100s of women. I can bet on it. You are 101. If you show him that its not going to work out, he will move on sooner than you can say 'poof'.

 

They have the charm and they know how to string a women into this. Its like laying bits of bait until you are in the cage. Once in the cage you wont want to leave because you keep replaying the kindness he presented ( the bait) even though he put you in that cage and has cut out his kind baits.

 

I have been there. Its mind fak.

[Southwardbound]

Well, you're right I haven't thought much about the long-term, but I really don't have any expectations of a divorce or breakup, living there or him living here. That's way too far. I have a life and family as well. I don't know how it ends, but the furthest I've thought is that he's a really cool guy who's shown me a reallllllllly good time, and helped me wake up.

 

Well, then from what you've just wrote, it sounds like in your mind whether you realize it or not - some part of you recognizes that this is just a really-really good holiday (& possibly repeatable) romp. Example: I have a girlfriend who has a fairly happy marriage- came close to divorce a few times, but they're still married. However for almost 30 years she has had this longterm fling with a married man overseas. They only see each other once or twice a year for about 4 weeks at a time, texting with the occassional call inbetween actual meetings. It works for them. She says he makes her feel special in ways her H doesn't. So, they've kept doing it all this time. Her husband has no idea. So, it just makes me think that - sometimes, I think an outside romp can open ones eyes to what internal unhappiness or unforfillment they might be currently feeling / missing within their current relationships.

 

And it's: My guess, that some extramarital affairs start off that way (?)- in some way the long-term partner they picked doesn't check all the boxes, so they look later on if opportunity presents itself, just to see if that's true. Then of course, if they act on it, they are faced with potential consequences and must figure out what is the best way to resolve them.

[Scarlett94]

Just curious, are you paying for all these trips?

Does he ever come here to see you?

[CuriousQD]

Is he sending for you, or are you running after him?

 

He is taking care of my accommodations. I paid for my airfare.

[CuriousQD]

There ARE 100s of women. I can bet on it. You are 101. If you show him that its not going to work out, he will move on sooner than you can say 'poof'.

 

They have the charm and they know how to string a women into this. Its like laying bits of bait until you are in the cage. Once in the cage you wont want to leave because you keep replaying the kindness he presented ( the bait) even though he put you in that cage and has cut out his kind baits.

 

I have been there. Its mind fak.

 

I can see how this could be true. Before this, I spent all of my free time doing things that I thought can help my family, improve my lot, etc. Why do men waste time doing things like this?

[CuriousQD]

Well, then from what you've just wrote, it sounds like in your mind whether you realize it or not - some part of you recognizes that this is just a really-really good holiday (& possibly repeatable) romp. Example: I have a girlfriend who has a fairly happy marriage- came close to divorce a few times, but they're still married. However for almost 30 years she has had this longterm fling with a married man overseas. They only see each other once or twice a year for about 4 weeks at a time, texting with the occassional call inbetween actual meetings. It works for them. She says he makes her feel special in ways her H doesn't. So, they've kept doing it all this time. Her husband has no idea. So, it just makes me think that - sometimes, I think an outside romp can open ones eyes to what internal unhappiness or unforfillment they might be currently feeling / missing within their current relationships.

 

And it's: My guess, that some extramarital affairs start off that way (?)- in some way the long-term partner they picked doesn't check all the boxes, so they look later on if opportunity presents itself, just to see if that's true. Then of course, if they act on it, they are faced with potential consequences and must figure out what is the best way to resolve them.

 

From this side of things, it's hard to be completely judgmental. When I was on the victim end, the philanderers were Satan incarnate and I couldn't fathom the heartlessness of it all. It really makes me think very long and hard about institutions of marriage and monogamy and whether they're these made-up things that almost nobody achieves perfectly.

[CuriousQD]

Just curious, are you paying for all these trips?

Does he ever come here to see you?

 

So my girlfriend paid for the first trip where I met him. I paid for the air/hotel on the next two, and this time I'm only paying for air. I know it doesn't make a huge difference but I've never spent much while there. He's taken care of everything -- food, transportation, sightseeing, etc. We have discussed him coming here. He is building a house, and he can't leave before it's done. And yes there really is a house. He took me there. I helped move some cinder blocks. But for context, this whole experience is barely three months old. When I say it's been a whirlwind and this man swept me off my feet, I wasn't kidding.

 

My next journey is only a week away. And here's a little surprise: that guy I ate lunch with is turning out to be kinda cool. I've talked to him maybe four or five times in the last week. No real date yet. But maybe....just maybe there's a path out of this.

[BluesPower]

You know CQD...

 

I just don't know what the issue is unless you fall in deep love or something.

 

I mean you are single, you can date who you want, this guy likes you and is not a con artist, he is married and that is his deal, what is the problem?

 

I mean unless you find a guy in that states that you want to be exclusive with, I personally do not see a problem with the whole deal.

 

You get to have a romantic fling overseas, some great sex, great vacation, I don't know if I was in your shoes I would just love having one of these.

 

So am I missing something?

[SoleMate]

oldshirt has it right....this is just a fling. It's fun for now, then the ending will be rough (to the extent it gets dragged out or prolonged). Keep it in perspective, this is just a short term thing. Don't bet on long term. In fact avoid long term because this is NOT a man any woman should be building her life around (obviously).

[BluesPower]

Just love your tag line!!!

[minimariah]

So am I missing something?

 

you're missing two things:

 

1. dude charmed the OP's panties off; the chemistry & connection are super strong, powerful attraction, the best sex she ever had - with a pull like that...? there is no way she won't start wanting MORE after some time. there is no way that the long distance thing won't start bothering her at some point. she already is in love.

 

2. when you get involved with a married person - you can't act like that's none of your business. your status does not matter; you risk exposure, uncomfortable scenes, possible harrassment IF the A is discovered... a lot of things can go wrong, you can become a target. the OP doesn't know who the BS is or what she's capable of - folks ignore that because they think drama happens only in the movies but that's true life. she already met his friends & family, i mean... she also has a child she's responsible for. you can't get involved with a married man and NOT think about the possible consequences. it's reckless. which is why i can't figure out why did the OP went all in - and she wanted some casual and carefree fun. and instead of having fun, she's overthinking the situation and is somewhat tortured about possibly falling in love. and she sounds like a smart lady - so why DID she do it and made her life complicated?

Edited December 4, 2016 by minimariah

[CuriousQD]

You know CQD...

 

I just don't know what the issue is unless you fall in deep love or something.

 

I mean you are single, you can date who you want, this guy likes you and is not a con artist, he is married and that is his deal, what is the problem?

 

I mean unless you find a guy in that states that you want to be exclusive with, I personally do not see a problem with the whole deal.

 

You get to have a romantic fling overseas, some great sex, great vacation, I don't know if I was in your shoes I would just love having one of these.

 

So am I missing something?

 

**sigh** Me trying to be a good, decent, moral person. Me trying not to be a hypocrite, I suppose. Knowing myself, I'm going to find it difficult to give this up unless he does something to hurt me.

[CuriousQD]

you're missing two things:

 

1. dude charmed the OP's panties off; the chemistry & connection are super strong, powerful attraction, the best sex she ever had - with a pull like that...? there is no way she won't start wanting MORE after some time. there is no way that the long distance thing won't start bothering her at some point. she already is in love.

 

2. when you get involved with a married person - you can't act like that's none of your business. your status does not matter; you risk exposure, uncomfortable scenes, possible harrassment IF the A is discovered... a lot of things can go wrong, you can become a target. the OP doesn't know who the BS is or what she's capable of - folks ignore that because they think drama happens only in the movies but that's true life. she already met his friends & family, i mean... she also has a child she's responsible for. you can't get involved with a married man and NOT think about the possible consequences. it's reckless. which is why i can't figure out why did the OP went all in - and she wanted some casual and carefree fun. and instead of having fun, she's overthinking the situation and is somewhat tortured about possibly falling in love. and she sounds like a smart lady - so why DID she do it and made her life complicated?

 

Trying desperately to unsee this post. Is "I don't know" an acceptable answer? Also having never done anything like this before, I don't know how far is too far. I don't have a guidebook to tell me what to do.

[BluesPower]

And you make some valid points. I also have to agree that women do fall in love a lot of the time, so that is an issue.

 

I think that in this case, while some of that is possible, I am not sure how probable it is, but you are right.

 

I just hate to see a woman that has the opportunity to have a great romantic fling, if she does not get too deep, not do that.

 

Maybe it would be better for her to date more conventionally, and hopefully she could find a guy that really lights her fire.

 

On the other hand, there are just so many woman and men out there that have for whatever reason just not had much if any great sex. I just find that really sad overall.

 

For now I am in the have fun camp provided that nothing shady starts happening.

[minimariah]

Is "I don't know" an acceptable answer?

 

of course!

 

it's totally fine to be confused, to NOT know, to NOT have all the answers. hmmm... how far is too far? that's hard to say. and moral aside... dating an attached person usually isn't much fun. you seem like an intelligent lady, i can TOTALLY understand you when you describe your attraction to the man. he is obviously super fatal to you, he has the something, the X factor - the type of man you just LOVE to watch MOVE... something shifts in the air when he enters, you get the butterflies, nervous and all that. and sex gotta be EXPLOSIVE. right? and it's been just three months - that's why i assume you'll keep falling for him. you might get to know him and cool off - but... it's risky. and he might leave the partner but then you'll have to deal with the LD relationship.

 

it just seems so... HARD. you know? it's a lot to risk. it's a lot to take, lots to work on. and you've JUST gotten out of a bad marriage and you want to do something carefree. i'm asking all the WHY questions because i think it might help you figure this out in case there is a deeper reason you chose this particular man and this particular relationship.

 

p.s. i really think this guy might be in some kind of open relationship, something like that. your A is not the normal A - as in, you're VERY out there... in public.

[CuriousQD]

No one asked, but I'm updating anyway with the things I've learned so far.

 

1. Wife or Girlfriend? Wife. Married four years, together for 15 years.

 

2. Open relationship? He says no. He said if he were found out, he'd be on the plane to the US with me because she'd divorce him instantly.

 

3. His why? I stole his heart. He didn't say how. I think it's just part of his personality to shoot his shots and enjoy what comes along. I think he could just as easily let go when time comes. Definitely a go-with-the-flow and "enjoy the moment" type of guy.

 

4. Relationship between wife and aunt? Not strained, very, very cordial. I saw her again this trip. She cooked for me again too and we went shopping. I don't know what else to do with that.

 

Also, he left me alone with his phone open. And of course i went for it. There appears to be two women who raise a flag for me. One woman is in his phone under a man's name. There was nothing inappropriate being said in the messages, but their pictures were very suggestive. I could see that of all his contacts, I think I talk with him a little bit more than anybody else including his wife and son. By phone of course. I would say it took a good five minutes to process these two women, and then I stopped caring. What on earth is happening to me? Is this no-standards desperation or someone just committed to keeping this casual? I don't want his family to break up. I just know when I'm with him, everything is right. And yes the earth moved:laugh: I mean, again, the sex is reason alone. And this trip, he pulled out some new tricks. Things I've never experienced in my life. This trip, he is also flirting a lot with the L-word, and just being super sweet and revealing a lot more about himself and his life. I met some more friends and another brother.

 

FYI, I also went on a real date two days before my trip. I thought I might really like this guy from my office building. But the date was AWWWWWWFFULLL. Let's just put it this way: we just had appetizers. The bill was $20 and his card was declined. And his explanation deserved an Academy Award. A complete and utter waste of time, but something tells me I'd never give him a fair shot even if everything went well.

[freengreen]

No one asked, but I'm updating anyway with the things I've learned so far.

 

1. Wife or Girlfriend? Wife. Married four years, together for 15 years.

 

2. Open relationship? He says no. He said if he were found out, he'd be on the plane to the US with me because she'd divorce him instantly.

 

3. His why? I stole his heart. He didn't say how. I think it's just part of his personality to shoot his shots and enjoy what comes along. I think he could just as easily let go when time comes. Definitely a go-with-the-flow and "enjoy the moment" type of guy.

 

4. Relationship between wife and aunt? Not strained, very, very cordial. I saw her again this trip. She cooked for me again too and we went shopping. I don't know what else to do with that.

 

Also, he left me alone with his phone open. And of course i went for it. There appears to be two women who raise a flag for me. One woman is in his phone under a man's name. There was nothing inappropriate being said in the messages, but their pictures were very suggestive. I could see that of all his contacts, I think I talk with him a little bit more than anybody else including his wife and son. By phone of course. I would say it took a good five minutes to process these two women, and then I stopped caring. What on earth is happening to me? Is this no-standards desperation or someone just committed to keeping this casual? I don't want his family to break up. I just know when I'm with him, everything is right. And yes the earth moved:laugh: I mean, again, the sex is reason alone. And this trip, he pulled out some new tricks. Things I've never experienced in my life. This trip, he is also flirting a lot with the L-word, and just being super sweet and revealing a lot more about himself and his life. I met some more friends and another brother.

 

FYI, I also went on a real date two days before my trip. I thought I might really like this guy from my office building. But the date was AWWWWWWFFULLL. Let's just put it this way: we just had appetizers. The bill was $20 and his card was declined. And his explanation deserved an Academy Award. A complete and utter waste of time, but something tells me I'd never give him a fair shot even if everything went well.

I am here QD..

 

The update seems to be going in the direction most of here thought.Its so sad and frustating that almost ALL of them pull the same 'sweeping off' tricks. Atleast you knew first hand. When I was in, I thought all of it was real.. ugh.

 

Everything will be rosy when he is around yes because he blinds you with tinted glasses. Fling them to his face. I think you already saw light .

 

Takecare QD...

[minimariah]

i believe you're in love & infatuated with this man. some amazing, earth-shattering sex will do that to you + charm... aaaaaand there you have it. at this point, you're not going to break it off so there is no point in insisting on NC because you're not ready... and there is no point in you dating other folks.

 

you'll see things more clearly & figure out what you want as the A progresses.

[CuriousQD]

The latest has been so unexpected. I met the son and D-Day has happened. Should I go on the next trip? (I have insurance this time!)

---

 

So on the last trip, I brought along what I thought was a totally innocent gift. My ignorance was tragic. On black friday, I picked up a little $25 Kindle fire tablet for his son, and took it with me last month as a Christmas gift. Went, had a fantastic time. I actually got two noise complaints at the hotel . When I gave "Francois" the tablet, he actually opened the box to charge it up, and I fussed at him because the packaging was ruined. But that actually would have been my last chance to save us from the horrible mistake I didn't know I was making.

 

Stop me if you know this story. When you purchase Amazon tablet, there is a little box that asks you to designate the item as gift, and there is a link that says something like, "Why is this important." I didn't see that link and didn't mark the item as a gift because I was taking it with me. Well, Amazon thinks I'm buying a tablet for myself in that case. I don't own a kindle so I knew nothing of this. So when they open it, it must have said something like Welcome (my name). It is linked to my account....And the kicker, the photos and videos on my phone are backed up to my Amazon account. I only recently started this because during that first trip there I took so many pictures and videos that I started running out of space.

 

I'm here in the States and know nothing about this. In fact, Francois made a video call to me with his son there in the house and I talked to him for a good 10 minutes. I was shocked as I could be and didn't know what to say. I was introduced as a friend in the US who was a nice lady and had just visited. His son is 14, so I'm not sure what he was buying. He was very shy but also very polite.

 

A couple days later I log on to my Amazon account, and I notice the name on my account has changed (to his wife's name), my browsing history looks weird and later found out that subscriptions had been placed on my credit card. I thought I had been hacked and spent days on the phone with Amazon trying to figure it out, not knowing still about this issue with the tablet.

 

Finally figured it out and started messaging Francois like crazy. I made an assumption that he had given the tablet to his wife, and I was very upset about that, even though I could see his son on Facebook suddenly taking a bunch of new photos with it. Francois wasn't answering (DDay happened and they were on a long holiday). Amazon immediately de-registered the device so everything was fixed on my end. A few days later he started messaging again saying they were all spending so much time together in the house that it was hard for him to message me.

 

He finally told me that his son was the one who found the photos and videos. He told me he came to him after his mother went to bed and confronted him. At first he denied it, but he has a distinct birthmark on his thigh. He said his son said, "No Dad, that's you. I know it." It seems disappointing his son has taken a huge toll on him, and I can only imagine the grief the wife felt. I don't have the details about how/when she saw it, but she did.

 

Things are not the same. I have been going longer and longer without talking to him, and I finally got to a point where I said well, there's nothing I can do, it's time to move on. This is the bloody nose. But of course I had already booked another trip the second I got home last month. It's next week, just for the weekend. I finally asked him whether he thought it was a good idea if I came, he said yes he wants me to come and he doesn't want things to change between us. But he looks so down. It's clear he's not been sleeping well, and all the fire that was there before is dying out. He's looking weathered. They've clearly been through it.

 

Of course, I want to go, but this doesn't seem like a good idea.

Edited January 13, 2017 by CuriousQD

[Steen719]

My only answer to you is that I wish I could tell you how adversely my EX's affair and our subsequent divorce affected my son. Terrible.

 

You can't take that back. Not. Ever.

[minimariah]

OK... so i have some questions...

 

 

So on the last trip, I brought along what I thought was a totally innocent gift.

 

was this before or after you met the son...? if it was before - why did you buy a gift for an unknown child and how would the two of you explain that gift to the child and his mother...?

 

I was shocked...

 

understandable & Francois seems like an incredibly reckless and irresponsible father. going-with-the-flow type of guy.

 

Of course, I want to go, but this doesn't seem like a good idea.

 

it's not a good idea, at all. but you'll probably go anyway. question: how come you didn't ask all the Qs folks usually ask after the A is discovered? you know... what happens with his marriage, what happens with the two of you, how will he arrange a meeting if the BS is (i assume) suspicious and the situation is tense...? there are so many Qs people usually ask and you didn't really ask any of them. it's like ignoring the huge elephant in the room - why is that? you aren't interested or at the very least curious about his plans for the future?