Is anything going on

[BluesPower]

Drone...

 

First, as long as you don't use really profane language you can post details that you may think will help us understand the sex part, if you want to. It is allowed.

 

I am not sure what she could have been involved with except some of the standard straight sex stuff and maybe new toys or something, I don't think that anything she may have done would shock anyone here. Even is she got into some of the BDSM stuff it is not that unusual.

 

However her betrayal of you is still pretty severe no matter what the sexual component was.

 

Take your time to decide if you ever want her back, and nothing says that you have to. She made her choices.

 

If she cold ever prove her remorse and love for you, it might be something to think about. The question is how does she do that? My answer is I just do not know.

[WilyWill]

Hope you're doing okay, Drone. I imagine you've had some very emotional conversations with your wife. Feel free to lean on us if you have no-one else to talk to.

[Drone117]

Damn it you are right. F... it I'm tired from all of this.

[ShatteredLady]

It's emotionally & physically exhausting! Please take care of yourself. Seriously!

 

I was diagnosed with cancer after 9 months of this nightmare. It came from nowhere & hit level 4 in months. I'm sure that the insane stress effected it in the worst way. I was so apathetic about my health. Ugh!!

[selfawareness]

The reason why you came here in the first place was to look for support. You had subtle suspicions and wanted to voice them with someone. This tells me you are a perceptive individual with an open mind. People like you are devastated even more so because THIS went on under the radar and even when picked up was little compared to the real **** going under the surface. Your perception has taken a HIT. A man like you values your perception/assertiveness more than most things in life. Even if you divorce today and walk away from her to never see her again, you can't away from the fact that your perceptions are not as accurate as you believed them to be. You WILL doubt yourself in any future relationship if any to a degree you never have, from this you can't walk away. It's easy for people to say when cheated that their partner was a fraud and move on but they forget to deal with the reality of why you chose that person in the first place. Either you were totally off in choosing her hence your perceptions are worthless, so to speak, or you were right and now just want to walk away from damaged goods. You sound too smart to me to have been wrong about choosing her. You sound too beat up right now to know otherwise. She was and is the woman you love, she is obviuosly more than you knew and you are not willing right now to know how deep the rabbit hole goes. Nobody can love her more than you can. Your POS wife will never be loved more you have loved her. Your rejection will be the 'end' of her and she deserves it...but your tolerance would be GODLY. There are some POS spouses that should only be kicked to the curb, your wife doesn't sound like one of those to me. Your story sounds to me like you two lost one another unintentionally with grave consequences. I dont blame her solely yet like some have--you havent answered my questions in a previous post--oh I'm fully aware how disliked that post was but I'm not going to take just your 'side' without trying to understand what's inside her head. Right now she's nothing but a POS to most here but that is only insult to your intelligence, you chose better than that. BTW you said that you could never go back to kissing her and interacting the same way as before...perhaps that was not altogether a good thing.

Edited January 28, 2017 by selfawareness

[merrmeade]

The reason why you came here in the first place was to look for support. You had subtle suspicions and wanted to voice them with someone. This tells me you are a perceptive individual with an open mind. People like you are devastated even more so because THIS went on under the radar and even when picked up was little compared to the real **** going under the surface. Your perception has taken a HIT. A man like you values your perception/assertiveness more than most things in life. Even if you divorce today and walk away from her to never see her again, you can't away from the fact that your perceptions are not as accurate as you believed them to be. You WILL doubt yourself in any future relationship if any to a degree you never have, from this you can't walk away. It's easy for people to say when cheated that their partner was a fraud and move on but they forget to deal with the reality of why you chose that person in the first place. Either you were totally off in choosing her hence your perceptions are worthless, so to speak, or you were right and now just want to walk away from damaged goods. You sound too smart to me to have been wrong about choosing her. You sound too beat up right now to know otherwise. She was and is the woman you love, she is obviuosly more than you knew and you are not willing right now to know how deep the rabbit hole goes. Nobody can love her more than you can. Your POS wife will never be loved more you have loved her. Your rejection will be the 'end' of her and she deserves it...but your tolerance would be GODLY. There are some POS spouses that should only be kicked to the curb, your wife doesn't sound like one of those to me. Your story sounds to me like you two lost one another unintentionally with grave consequences. I dont blame her solely yet like some have--you havent answered my questions in a previous post--oh I'm fully aware how disliked that post was but I'm not going to take just your 'side' without trying to understand what's inside her head. Right now she's nothing but a POS to most here but that is only insult to your intelligence, you chose better than that. BTW you said that you could never go back to kissing her and interacting the same way as before...perhaps that was not altogether a good thing.

Complex observations - all factors. But I disagree that there's any basis for someone like this to worry he'll miss things in the future. Maybe you're just saying it's a tendency, but the thing is also that - if the person digs deep, deep for a long time into what happened, why, what the spouse was thinking/feeling and why it was missed AND if the person always has the option to monitor anything s/he feels funny about - well, I think it's not only possible but probable that the person won't miss a thing! In fact, the person will understand the spouse so much better, there's not much the spouse will feel or think that the person can't figure out with little prompting.

 

Anyway, that's enough conjecture with all the wrong nouns (I meant BS for "the person" and WS for "the spouse"). My point is I think a lot of us on here have discussed and dug so deeply on here and on our own, that we know we know much, much more than we did and we see more than we wish we did about our WSs. Personally I don't think I'd miss anything in the future. No doubt whatsoever. And I was a clueless idiot before.

 

I realize you said - and I agree - Drone was NOT a clueless idiot but even so, he knows now that he knows what to look for now.

[merrmeade]

But I do not want to overshadow the point I agree with, self-awareness. I'm in your minority camp that says, well, we just don't know what Dron's wife is thinking. We assume we know (well, some) what he's feeling, but nobody's situation is as simple as this has been reduced to.

 

The main thing for me is that I'm not sure I could make a comeback from having read my spouse's thoughts and feelings about the AP as Drone did. That's the kicker: the diary. No matter how remorseful she is or how completely she turns herself around. Those details SEEM to have affected him deeply. Irrevocably? That's his call. And maybe it's possible she could influence that possibility. Dunno.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Merrmeade, I have to say that I agree with you completely about Drone's feelings and state of mind after having read his wife's diary. The written word, just like a visual gets burned into one's memory especially if it has to do with the baring of the soul of the person who you thought was your one and only. If it had been something that she had told him, modified suitably to lose it's sharpness and was presented to him in a bland form with none of it's pungent details, then one could assume that Drone would not have been tortured by the terrible mind movies that people on this forum talk about. However, this is something that he will never be able to erase from his mind and if she is in the same space as him all this will come back to haunt with renewed vigour.

 

As far as the debate about Drone is concerned I think it is purely academic for Selfawareness to say that Drone will always in the future, doubt himself about any one he is in a relationship with. The fact is that Drone's wife herself probably did not know that she was capable of such of such low behaviour prior to this incident having occurred. The fact is that there are fault lines in all of us that we may not be aware of until we are put to the test. Afterall she had been in different work situations for a number of years and had always been devoted to her husband. This particular work situation and this particular man touched something in her which played on this dormant fault line within her. After that she just let herself be carried away with the flood of emotions which were released within her as a consequence. One would have to be God to be able to sus out such weaknesses in oneself, forget about someone else, and I do not think Drone will ever doubt himself in any future relationship just because his current wife did not live up to his expectations of a loving and loyal spouse. Just some thoughts on Drone's situation. Warm wishes.

[selfawareness]

It happens all the time. A says something, B paraphrases it wrong, and C says that it is wrong based on what B is saying. In conversations is more difficult because A says that he didn't say that and B says that yes he did--you said, he said type of issue. In written form it is easier since you can quote.

 

Having said this, if you read well, I'm not saying Drone can or can't do what's being said. I'm asking him to look into it. Some people say Drone can't do it, others say he shouldn't do it. I am only telling him to consider it, whether he wants or can is a different story.

 

I want to emphasise that some say he can't give reconciliation a thought because of what she did and his finding of her diary--I disagree that anybody here has the knowledge that he can't. Some say that he shouldn't. It is merely your opinion and wish based on your experiences at best and limitation of Drone's creativity at worst.

 

I even go as far as to say that she deserves to be dumped BUT thanks be to goodness that we don't all get what we deserve always. Mercy in essence. Mercy to the one to whom by Drone's account has been a good woman other than this despicable fall.

 

Diary reading and movies included, mercy calls. Only Drone has the prerrogative to answer. Also Drone, I'd like to point out that in the fog things are said, felt and thought which are only temporary (not minimizing how revolting it is).

 

Again the questions that I asked in my first post would help me understand better part of what was in her mind, the object of our judgements.

 

Justaguy you accuse me of academics . I would bet my life on the, as I understand it, fact, that Drone will never trust again the same way. The reason why I said this was not to threaten him with ill omens but in the context of his perceptions/assertiveness.

Edited January 29, 2017 by selfawareness

[Drone117]

I'm not sure I'm able to understand your post in its entirety - way to tired with everything that is going on right now. However you seem to raise some valid points, and some not so valid. So addressing the later.

 

While your are correct about me valuing my perceptions and judgement I don't think I'll be carrying this to my future whatever it is. Did I learn my lesson? Hell yes. Did it make me wiser? Hope so. Am I going to be doubtful and all? Probably not. You see I gave my best to this marriage. So I'm not going to let something clearly beyond my ability to control change me to some sort of indecisive neurotic. More careful? Likely.

 

I have probably missed your previous post with questions. Or decided not to answer if the wording hints authority or academic. Having said that - don't mind answering specific questions, even tough ones.

 

Calling my - still - wife POS is far from being the best way to engage me into the dialogue. Even after what's happened.

 

Happy to address your other points, I'm afraid they need to be re-explained to me, as I'm getting 4 hours of sleep average these days.

 

 

Thank you

 

 

The reason why you came here in the first place was to look for support. You had subtle suspicions and wanted to voice them with someone. This tells me you are a perceptive individual with an open mind. People like you are devastated even more so because THIS went on under the radar and even when picked up was little compared to the real **** going under the surface. Your perception has taken a HIT. A man like you values your perception/assertiveness more than most things in life. Even if you divorce today and walk away from her to never see her again, you can't away from the fact that your perceptions are not as accurate as you believed them to be. You WILL doubt yourself in any future relationship if any to a degree you never have, from this you can't walk away. It's easy for people to say when cheated that their partner was a fraud and move on but they forget to deal with the reality of why you chose that person in the first place. Either you were totally off in choosing her hence your perceptions are worthless, so to speak, or you were right and now just want to walk away from damaged goods. You sound too smart to me to have been wrong about choosing her. You sound too beat up right now to know otherwise. She was and is the woman you love, she is obviuosly more than you knew and you are not willing right now to know how deep the rabbit hole goes. Nobody can love her more than you can. Your POS wife will never be loved more you have loved her. Your rejection will be the 'end' of her and she deserves it...but your tolerance would be GODLY. There are some POS spouses that should only be kicked to the curb, your wife doesn't sound like one of those to me. Your story sounds to me like you two lost one another unintentionally with grave consequences. I dont blame her solely yet like some have--you having answered my questions in a previous post--oh I'm fully aware how disliked that post was but I'm not going to take just your 'side' without trying to understand what's inside her head. Right now she's nothing but a POS to most here but that is only insult to your intelligence, you chose better than that. BTW you said that you could never go back to kissing her and interacting the same way as before...perhaps that was not altogether a good thing.

[Marc878]

If you're not joining a gym to work out or going on a run even walking will help you sleep better.

 

You need the exercise anyway.

[Drone117]

 

The main thing for me is that I'm not sure I could make a comeback from having read my spouse's thoughts and feelings about the AP as Drone did. That's the kicker: the diary. No matter how remorseful she is or how completely she turns herself around. Those details SEEM to have affected him deeply. Irrevocably? That's his call. And maybe it's possible she could influence that possibility. Dunno.

 

You are right with the quoted part. Very right. You are always saying you don't know what I am - or her - is thinking, so this is a snapshot of my mind. You see I think a have everything possible now in terms of remorse and willingness to make things right from her. Name it as I bet it'll be on the list. Perhaps she's done some research, by the way.

 

So I sit down, list all the reasons to take her back and the idea looks very compelling to me. And then- literally on the way to tell her I'm willing to give it a go - I hit a 3-layer wall.

 

Layer 1 - how do I know she's all of a sudden in such all conquering love with me again. She shows it all the time now, yes. She was also very convincing in bed with this guy.

Layer 2 - what would have happened if he didn't dump her?

Layer 3. Let's say I stand up now, walk to her and "give her a chance". What would it look like in reality? What would my day tomorrow with her look like? I cannot instantly dismiss everything I know as get back to normal. So how will her family day look like when I have to force myself to look into her eyes?

 

That's mindf...g me, I tell you.

[Drone117]

If you're not joining a gym to work out or going on a run even walking will help you sleep better.

 

You need the exercise anyway.

 

I'm exhausting myself in the gym just to get 4 hours. Don't worry about that.

[Jersey born raised]

Sorry, I am confused. I thought your wife has just given up and has not suggested trying. I recall you writing that she is an emotional wreck, that you see regret but not remorse. That is her destiny to be divorced "because she dared to love another to much"

 

Appreciate your refusal to use common terms that downgrade your wife. Actually the one you referred to will be flagged sooner or later by a mod.

 

Now, how is the child? What are YOU doing with him/her on a daily basis? What life skills are you teaching him. 20 years ago(?) Allen Bloom wrote a book "ever thing I ever needed to know I learned in kindergarten". Great read.

[Chaparral]

Take it slow there is no hurry. See if she can keep up the remorse or if she is just going through the motions. Whatever you end up doing is ok. You didn't make this mess, you can clean it up any way you want. Staying with her is only one of your options. She has to accept whatever consequences her actions caused. One things for sure, she can't undo the past.

[road]

 

Layer 1 - how do I know she's all of a sudden in such all conquering love with me again. She shows it all the time now, yes. She was also very convincing in bed with this guy.

Layer 2 - what would have happened if he didn't dump her?

Layer 3. Let's say I stand up now, walk to her and "give her a chance". What would it look like in reality? What would my day tomorrow with her look like? I cannot instantly dismiss everything I know as get back to normal. So how will her family day look like when I have to force myself to look into her eyes?

 

That's mindf...g me, I tell you.

 

1 she lost how to love you and now found it again

2 most affairs end on their own after 2 years

3 do not care what others think

4 care what you want and ask will yourself my life be better off with

WW or without WW

[road]

Sorry, I am confused. I thought your wife has just given up and has not suggested trying. I recall you writing that she is an emotional wreck, that you see regret but not remorse. That is her destiny to be divorced "because she dared to love another to much"

 

Appreciate your refusal to use common terms that downgrade your wife. Actually the one you referred to will be flagged sooner or later by a mod.

 

Now, how is the child? What are YOU doing with him/her on a daily basis? What life skills are you teaching him. 20 years ago(?) Allen Bloom wrote a book "ever thing I ever needed to know I learned in kindergarten". Great read.

 

 

Child? Memory not as good as it used to be, an OC?

[Marc878]

You are right with the quoted part. Very right. You are always saying you don't know what I am - or her - is thinking, so this is a snapshot of my mind. You see I think a have everything possible now in terms of remorse and willingness to make things right from her. Name it as I bet it'll be on the list. Perhaps she's done some research, by the way.

 

So I sit down, list all the reasons to take her back and the idea looks very compelling to me. And then- literally on the way to tell her I'm willing to give it a go - I hit a 3-layer wall.

 

Layer 1 - how do I know she's all of a sudden in such all conquering love with me again. She shows it all the time now, yes. She was also very convincing in bed with this guy.

Layer 2 - what would have happened if he didn't dump her?

Layer 3. Let's say I stand up now, walk to her and "give her a chance". What would it look like in reality? What would my day tomorrow with her look like? I cannot instantly dismiss everything I know as get back to normal. So how will her family day look like when I have to force myself to look into her eyes?

 

That's mindf...g me, I tell you.

 

You have inside information that most don't have which will enable you to make a better decision. No remorse no reconciliation. Many waste years not really not knowing if the wayward is capable. If she's not you're just plan B and in reality it's over anyway. Unless you just want to stay in it for convienience.

[selfawareness]

I do call some people POS based in what they have done. This issue qualifies her for it. POS people can clean up their act and forego the title. How is wrong for anybody seeing your wife walk out of a hotel and call her a POS? Well, maybe moderator William can stand up to that person and say nope you can't do that, not on my watch. Jersey would say, thank you William for flagging that behavior, that man was demeaning, I appreciate you William... Hypocracy at best! I am sure nobody at her job thinks she is a POS. Well Jersey, go ask William to moderate at her job too lol...covering the sun with your hands.

 

Ironically, I am one of the few exploring the idea of understanding and forgiveness for her.

[BluesPower]

Just FYI for everyone...

 

We are not supposed to use "POS" because the mods want to keep these forums clean overall.

 

Whether you agree or not, they are the ones that make these decisions.

[selfawareness]

Due to internal regs I may have used unapproved words but no I'm not conceptually wrong. It would be ironic though, here we are discussing some of the most grotesque things of life but can't use foul language.

[turnera]

Drone, if the time is ever right to take her back...you'll know. Trust your gut.

[merrmeade]

You are right with the quoted part. Very right. You are always saying you don't know what I am - or her - is thinking, so this is a snapshot of my mind. You see I think a have everything possible now in terms of remorse and willingness to make things right from her. Name it as I bet it'll be on the list. Perhaps she's done some research, by the way.

 

So I sit down, list all the reasons to take her back and the idea looks very compelling to me. And then- literally on the way to tell her I'm willing to give it a go - I hit a 3-layer wall.

 

Layer 1 - how do I know she's all of a sudden in such all conquering love with me again. She shows it all the time now, yes. She was also very convincing in bed with this guy.

Layer 2 - what would have happened if he didn't dump her?

Layer 3. Let's say I stand up now, walk to her and "give her a chance". What would it look like in reality? What would my day tomorrow with her look like? I cannot instantly dismiss everything I know as get back to normal. So how will her family day look like when I have to force myself to look into her eyes?

 

That's mindf...g me, I tell you.

Hey, again, Drone. I just have to take a minute to say how grateful I am for this dialogue, your openness and, in general, the serious quality-of-life issues we address here - as a respite to the serious life-or-death issues the rest of the world is addressing on a daily basis. Never imagined that I'd ever think of LS as getting away or that the outside "real" world could be more staggering to contemplate than the painful stories on LS. Nuff said.

 

In response to your post above, I essentially agree with Chaparral:

Take it slow there is no hurry. See if she can keep up the remorse or if she is just going through the motions. Whatever you end up doing is ok. You didn't make this mess, you can clean it up any way you want. Staying with her is only one of your options. She has to accept whatever consequences her actions caused. One things for sure, she can't undo the past.

Even if you your make it all the way and tell her you're willing to give it a go, it does not mean you eliminated your doubts for all time and will never feel bad about what she did again. It means (and you will tell her this) that you'll see tomorrow how you feel about everything and her. It means that you can give her no guarantees about how you'll feel tomorrow or the next day, but today you'd like to see how hard and well she's willing and able to work with you. No guarantees because you need more time and consistency to be convinced deep in your soul. You don't know what you'll need to do in a month, a year, or five years.

 

Maybe it will be too indefinite for her, but one day at a time is all you're able or willing to commit to.

 

Maybe later she'll too quickly slip back into complacency and begin taking your forgiveness for granted. Then you'll have to decide whether you want to live in limbo again.

 

I'd really recommend finding a psychologist or trained counselor to talk about all that's happening, what it means and what you want to do about it. You can't do it for yourself. It's just talking and it forces you to organize your thoughts and your realize what is and isn't important. It's really great right now.

 

Point is that giving her a chance to prove her remorse does not mean she will or that you're stuck. If she doesn't, maybe you can think in advance how you'd like to proceed at that point.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Drone, I have to say that you are masterful when it comes to separating the emotional issues from the factual ones as they pertain to your case. Your three layered wall is an excellent metaphor for what you face were you to think of reconciliation. My point is that whatever remorse or regret your wife is displaying is driven by a desperate desire on her part, to regain status quo, something like a Recovery point on a computer when it crashes, to take her back to a happier time with you when all was good and happy for all of you as a family. However, sadly, that can never be as the damage done is too severe for you to recover a marriage which is beyond the point of resuscitation. There are just too many obstacles and pitfalls which have been erected by her infidelity and for a relationship which she and possibly you, may hope to regain, the best way would be to kill the old one and start from scratch.

 

This entails divorce and gives you the chance to find someone new rather than settle for the old damaged relationship. You will gain a fresh perspective about relationships when you are dating someone else. You will also be able to evaluate your old relationship with your wife against that with someone else and will be able to decide which was/is better overall. For your wife a divorce will force her to examine her issues deeply and if she is truly in love with you, she will move heaven and earth to get back with you by working on all the issues that led her into an inappropriate relationship with another man. I suggest that you read the story of LovinDKT3. It will show you what a former WW can do to get back with her husband. DKT3 may be able to help you with the link to his wife's story or if you do not want to read the whole story you could request DKT3 to highlight the important parts for your benefit.

 

It does seem that you are on the horns of a dilemma which indicates that you are on the fence about your desire to reconcile with your wife. However, as the saying goes ' You don't go into battle with your rifle half cocked'. A divorce would be cathartic for you and a very necessary consequence for your wife. I think it is the only way that she will be forced to confront her issues which otherwise would get swept under the carpet. If you have the slightest inclination for reconciling with your wife after a cooling off period, then you can hold out hope for her by telling her that you will be observing her from a distance and if she does indeed, turn over a new leaf, you would be willing to look at dating her again with the intent of marrying her. With an incentive like that she may be inspired to work on herself with renewed vigour and the new her may just be the woman you would want in your life. Anyway, whatever you decide, I do sincerely hope that things work out happily for you and that you are able to have a good life after all this ugly turmoil. Warm wishes.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Just a Guy

[Candle Light]

Hi Drone, I just wanted to say that she needs to know that you read her diary if she doesn't know yet. If she doesn't know it she doesn't know to what depth you have been wounded. Along these lines, total transparency is necessary for her to try to make amends that would be meaningful to you.