You believe in devotion or boundaries?

[SamIam5]

You need a little bit of both.

 

Without boundaries, a relationship can overwhelm you. You need to be able to do what you want, how you want, and when you want...within reason and with respect. If a relationship precludes that from being an option, the relationship will ultimately fail. This is often the reason you hear people say, "I miss being single."

 

Without devotion, it becomes difficult to commit 100% to the person. Yes, you have a long list of things that you enjoy doing and an even longer list of the things you hate. And yes, many of the things you hate are things that your partner probably enjoys. But, the happiness felt by the other party when they realize that you're willing to go out of your way to make them happy should be enough to warrant doing some of those things.

[Weezy1973]

Gaeta, what are all the things you do for him that you'd rather not do; the things you compromise on. If you can easily think of some of these I think you'll realize there really is give and take on your relationship and it is quite healthy.

 

Of course if you can't think of any then you know the relationship is one sided and he'll almost definitely feel resentful at some point and dump you.

[Shining One]

To add a layer of complexity to this discussion, what about showing devotion by not pushing boundaries? I like doing X. My girlfriend doesn't like doing X, but would be willing to do X if I pushed her. I'm devoted to her and would not push her to do X because I know she doesn't really want to.

[GemmaUK]

I think there should be a healthy split of both.

 

I can't help but think it's strange that he was pretty adamant about not wanting to spend time with your folks for birthdays etc and then he agreed to it all.

It's almost as if he should be praised for that or has worked it so that is what happens.

[Els]

To add a layer of complexity to this discussion, what about showing devotion by not pushing boundaries? I like doing X. My girlfriend doesn't like doing X, but would be willing to do X if I pushed her. I'm devoted to her and would not push her to do X because I know she doesn't really want to.

 

I agree, this is really important IMO. Possibly one of the most important aspects of love in my book.

[DarrenB]

I'm all for devotion.

 

I wouldn't expect my significant other to be the same, normally the opposite. If one gets taken advantage of, then trial and error, and try again.

[Gaeta]

What are the small things that he says no to? Why do you get bothered about small things- maybe they aren't so small after all?

 

After the facts I realize it's childish on my part. During the weekend there was an activity at a park near by. Friday when we were making plans for the weekend I said I'd like to go there, not for long, maybe an hour. He said: Honey you can go there without me.

 

It bothered me from there and I brought it back the following day. I asked why he can't say yes to something so little, and he said why I have to fight him on those little things.

 

Then Saturday he devoted his day to take care of things for me. He picked up and set up my new tv, helped me do all my errands, winterized my bbq and back yard. He does a lot of things for me but when he says no to something I get all offended. He calls it having an allergic reaction. Sometimes I ask him if we can go somewhere and he'll say: If I say no will you have an allergic reaction?

Edited November 14, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
merged two posts ~6

[Herbalist]

I think there is a difference between stuff I don't like and my personal boundaries.

 

I can try to give a pretty good example. I was working for about a year as a CNA in a nursing/assisted living home that specialized in memory care (dementia patients). I didn't have to have this job, I had other options, but the work was fulfilling for me, even if the work was extremely hard and the hours were nuts (especially NOC shift omg).

 

Well there were all sorts of things that I "didn't like" you know like.. going home everyday with poop and pee and occasionally even blood on me. Or having residents scream at the top of their lungs while I'm giving them a shower, occasionally pinching and biting me or yanking my hair out. And so on. But I was willing to go through these things because I loved those people and they needed to receive direct care and it wasn't their fault that they had dementia.

 

Then the facility started encouraging abuse (neglect is a form of abuse) in order to increase their profits (understaffing + over-promising families what the facility was capable of such as end of life hospice care), and then they pressured us caregivers to help them sweep it under the rug, told us to sign papers saying residents had received care when they had not. That was a major ethical boundary for me, I was furious, quit the job and reported them to the state.

 

So simply "not liking" something does not get in my way of caring for someone, but my boundaries are absolute.

[Redhead14]

Boundaries are about personal space/security and they are non-negotiable. Everything else is negotiable . . . if you hate going to football games, for example, you don't have to go, but if your SO enjoys having you there and you ultimately have a good time anyway, what's the big deal if you go once in awhile? And, if you go with him to football games once in a while, he will go to the craft fair with you once in a while, hopefully. If a partner is so ridge about the "dailies" and refusing to participate in anything the other one enjoys, that's an area of incompatibility. There will be things that one partner likes to do and the other doesn't, and that's OK. It's a good thing if they have things they enjoy doing without their partner as well. They are still individuals.

[carhill]

You know those old folks we rebel against when young? Well the one I rebelled against didn't cover a lot of how to get the ladies stuff but he did cover some good relationship stuff, the nuts and bolts, and one tidbit of advice he imparted that I of course rebelled against was that, once someone of devotion starts accounting in a relationship, meaning drilling down to specifics of I did this, you did that, you didn't do that I didn't do this..... the relationship is doomed. That doesn't always mean the marriage ends or people break up but the core of the intimate relationship is done. Thinking and analysis takes over.

 

The hard part OP, if you're a person of devotion and flow, rather than discrete acts and analysis, is to approach interactions respecting your style and choosing your boundaries and accepting that the style and boundaries apply only to you and that's OK. Anyone you associate with, and show devotion to, is a completely voluntary act. If it works for you, do it. If not, do something else.

[Gaeta]

You know those old folks we rebel against when young? Well the one I rebelled against didn't cover a lot of how to get the ladies stuff but he did cover some good relationship stuff, the nuts and bolts, and one tidbit of advice he imparted that I of course rebelled against was that, once someone of devotion starts accounting in a relationship, meaning drilling down to specifics of I did this, you did that, you didn't do that I didn't do this..... the relationship is doomed. That doesn't always mean the marriage ends or people break up but the core of the intimate relationship is done. Thinking and analysis takes over.

 

The hard part OP, if you're a person of devotion and flow, rather than discrete acts and analysis, is to approach interactions respecting your style and choosing your boundaries and accepting that the style and boundaries apply only to you and that's OK. Anyone you associate with, and show devotion to, is a completely voluntary act. If it works for you, do it. If not, do something else.

 

I am guilty of having done that a couple of times, listing what l give in this relationship. He has not done it ever. And it's when l list him everything l do that he replies l should not do any of those things if deep down l don't want to do them and will resent doing them later.

[SwordofFlame]

Personally, I wouldn't mind accompanying my gf enjoying her interests. I'm pretty open minded. But on the flip side, I wouldn't ask her to (for example playing sports) accompany me if she wasn't into that stuff at all.

[BaileyB]

I am guilty of having done that a couple of times, listing what l give in this relationship. He has not done it ever. And it's when l list him everything l do that he replies l should not do any of those things if deep down l don't want to do them and will resent doing them later.

 

He's right. It's never good to keep score. Nothing good to come from that.

 

This is where the boundaries come in to play... When he asks for something, you ask yourself, "Can I offer this, do this for him, unselfishly expecting nothing in return. Or will it cost me more than I want to give?"

 

If the answer is, in your heart, that it is something you really don't want to do, or can't do, then a boundary needs to be drawn. There is nothing wrong with that - strong relationships should have healthy boundaries. As one poster said, when one partner is always compromising and the other is always getting their way, then the boundaries are not healthy and resentment will build.

 

But, if it will bring happiness to your partner at no great cost to yourself... Why would you not do it? However, if you decide to compromise and give to your partner, it is best to try to do this with a willing spirit and no expectation of anything in return.

 

As the Beatles say, "the love you give, is equal to the love you take away..."

Edited November 14, 2016 by BaileyB

[MissBee]

My BF believes that in life we should only do what we want to do and shouldn't do anything because we feel pressure from society, family, friends, gf-bf, etc.

 

I believe more in devotion. I will often do things I don't particularly enjoy to make others and my bf happy because their happiness is more important than the discomfort I may experience while doing these things I don't enjoy.

 

He told me I am a very kind and generous woman and combined with my philosophy he can see that's how men took advantage of me in the past. I am afraid he has a good point there.

 

Do I have it all wrong and his way of thinking is more healthy? Maybe he's the one that has learn to build boundaries and I haven't?

 

He tells me at times to only do things I really want to do in our relationship and to never pressure myself to do things I don't want. I hate when he says that but why?

 

 

Part of my sessions with a therapist previously was to work on just that: not doing things I don't want to do, so I can be authentic and not resentful. I had a complex about saying yes to things and putting people's feelings over my own, when i truly didn't want to or enjoy doing them....it becomes esp taxing and you build up resentment when you expect that because you are "devoted" and suffer for others they will suffer and do things they don't want for you...and then when they don't you're left resentful. But the truth is: you weren't being honest. You're not doing things in a genuine manner, you're either unconsciously doing it to get something back, whether it is love, admiration, the feeling of being a "good and devoted person" or because you don't want to say no.

 

Compromises in relationships are necessary, but it's both people meeting each other half way. Doing things you don't want to do and calling it devotion, especially in a relationship where the other person is clear that they will not also do that, doesn't seem like a positive or healthy scenario to me.

 

Like I said: for me, it was a problem. For a lot of women esp I think esp if you're a mom and so on, you're taught that your needs should come last and being a good wife, mother, friend etc means being nice all the time and silently doing things you don't want to so everyone else is happy. F()()ck that I say! You can be a good, loving, and AUTHENTIC person, and happier, when you are truthful and honest and do things because you want to do them and not out of some sense of obligation, esp where none exists. Within society we all have to obey laws and do stuff we may not want to....that's just part of the social contract, where no we all cannot just do whatever as we feel like it...but in terms of personal and romantic relationships, I do think it is absolutely necessary to have good boundaries and to be authentic and to do things out of desire to do them and not just obligation. Sure, sometimes you may not necessarily want to do something but do it anyway to make the person happy, if these are small things, fine....but if you realize you are doing this with bigger things or you feel resentful, or you think they should return the favor or you feel like you're pretending or it bothers you...absolutely don't...it's not worth it.

[Gaeta]

He's right. It's never good to keep score. Nothing good to come from that.

 

This is where the boundaries come in to play... When he asks for something, you ask yourself, "Can I offer this, do this for him, unselfishly expecting nothing in return. Or will it cost me more than I want to give?"

 

My BF is hard to explain. He never ask me for anything. What I give in this relationship I give it of my own will.

 

If I stopped doing things I usually do in our relationship he wouldn't say a word about it. He would accept the change and keep on loving me. I think it's from his Creole background. He is big on living in the moment and what will be, will be. I am more North American and I want to plan things ahead and I want everything to be as it's expected of me in my culture.

[BaileyB]

Your boyfriend sounds like a very kind person. As you say, you have your differences. It sounds like you are learning from each other.

Edited November 14, 2016 by BaileyB

[AMJ]

Do you feel like he rarely or maybe never wants to go to events that you want to go to? I remember you mentioned about the chores he does for you in your thread about birthdays. For me, it's definitely nice if someone helps install my TV or fix my BBQ, but I'd rather have someone who wants to spend time with me on Saturday, especially since you both have limited time during the week. One of the worst parts of being single is never having someone to come with you to do things that you enjoy doing. So that sort of thing would bother me. But like I said before, it's about balance. I'd also never expect a BF to go shopping with me, but maybe that's because I don't even like shopping myself. And I'd also never expect him to spend every single waking minute with me and think it's healthy for two people to maintain their own individual lives within a relationship.

 

I feel like this is a pretty common complaint women have of their boyfriends or husbands- "we never go out or do anything any more". It's almost like men view those activities as single person activities, so the only reason they used to have hobbies or lives outside of the home was to find a woman.

[Gaeta]

Do you feel like he rarely or maybe never wants to go to events that you want to go to?

Talking about events only, at first he was willing to follow me each time but as the relationship evolved he started declining once in a while. That being said I have to specify that I have more family events than the average person. I have a big family so practically every month we have a birthday, a graduation, a wedding anniversary, etc etc. I am aware it might be too much for some people.

 

 

I'd also never expect a BF to go shopping with me, but maybe that's because I don't even like shopping myself. And I'd also never expect him to spend every single waking minute with me and think it's healthy for two people to maintain their own individual lives within a relationship.

 

I feel like this is a pretty common complaint women have of their boyfriends or husbands- "we never go out or do anything any more". It's almost like men view those activities as single person activities, so the only reason they used to have hobbies or lives outside of the home was to find a woman.

 

For everything else he enjoys going out shopping, he enjoys going on dates and we try to do it often, we plan weekends away and it's his favorite thing, he is always willing to drive 10 hours to my parents we went like 4 times this year.

 

So sometimes out of the blue he'll say no and I find it difficult.

[Weezy1973]

So sometimes out of the blue he'll say no and I find it difficult.

 

Why do you find it difficult?

[Gaeta]

Why do you find it difficult?

 

Because I am not used to being told no lol

 

I was single 10 years so no one to agree or disagree with me.

 

I have been in an authority position at work for 14 years so not being challenged there either.

[Weezy1973]

Because I am not used to being told no lol

 

I was single 10 years so no one to agree or disagree with me.

 

I have been in an authority position at work for 14 years so not being challenged there either.

 

So you're saying that you don't know what it's like to be in a healthy relationship? Or you don't know how to be in a healthy relationship? What you're describing is a dictatorship and certainly not healthy in any way.

[Shining One]

For me, it's definitely nice if someone helps install my TV or fix my BBQ, but I'd rather have someone who wants to spend time with me on Saturday

Out of curiosity, do you communicate this preference to men you date? I've dated a few women who have this preference, but most never communicated they would rather me spend less time doing things for them and instead allocate that time to doing things with them. Instead, they would just complain about me not doing things with them.

[basil67]

Out of curiosity, do you communicate this preference to men you date? I've dated a few women who have this preference, but most never communicated they would rather me spend less time doing things for them and instead allocate that time to doing things with them. Instead, they would just complain about me not doing things with them.

 

At the risk of hijacking Gaeta's post, I think you've got a good question, so I will answer too.

 

A complaint vs positive communication is simply a difference in wording. The difference being that the positive communication uses assertive wording and the complaint uses negative wording.

 

For example, I could come to you with "you never spend enough time with me" and it would be a complaint. But I could also come to you with "I would really like to spend more time together" and it's a communication of need.

 

Assertive communication is something which frequently needs to be taught/learned/modelled.

[ElizabethIII]

Because I am not used to being told no lol

 

I was single 10 years so no one to agree or disagree with me.

 

I have been in an authority position at work for 14 years so not being challenged there either.

 

It doesn't sound like you believe in devotion either if you find it hard to be told no and are used to authority at work and not being disagreed with as you were single so long.

 

You're used to having it your own way, right now which isnt the definition of devotion.

 

This sounds like very hard work. He has told you in so many words that he doesnt feel he should have to do anything he doesnt want to do. You clash over things and you find it hard to be told no by him as you are used to getting your own way.

 

It doesnt bode well for the future.

Edited November 15, 2016 by ElizabethIII

[Els]

After the facts I realize it's childish on my part. During the weekend there was an activity at a park near by. Friday when we were making plans for the weekend I said I'd like to go there, not for long, maybe an hour. He said: Honey you can go there without me.

 

It bothered me from there and I brought it back the following day. I asked why he can't say yes to something so little, and he said why I have to fight him on those little things.

 

Then Saturday he devoted his day to take care of things for me. He picked up and set up my new tv, helped me do all my errands, winterized my bbq and back yard. He does a lot of things for me but when he says no to something I get all offended. He calls it having an allergic reaction. Sometimes I ask him if we can go somewhere and he'll say: If I say no will you have an allergic reaction?

 

How often does he say 'no' to going out with you?

 

If it's a once in a blue moon thing, this is REALLY not the hill you want to die on. People are entitled to occasionally not feel like going out - I mean, if he genuinely didn't feel like it, would you really have wanted him to suck it up and go and be miserable, just so you didn't have to go alone? IMO that sort of expectation isn't healthy - it breeds resentment and it starts to feel like a chore (if I don't go she'll get upset, so I have to go even if I don't feel like it) instead of something fun to do together. On the other hand, if he was consistently saying no, then yeah, there's a bigger issue that needs to be addressed.

 

Ironically I used to have the exact opposite issue with my SO. I'd say I wanted to go somewhere, he'd say 'sure!', we'd go... and most of the time we'd have a good time, but occasionally he seemed to have a bummer of a time. When I asked him why, it turns out that he didn't actually want to go to that particular event/place and didn't want to tell me no, so he went anyway. My response was, "Why??? I'd much rather go alone than drag you along and have you be miserable, and if you don't tell me when you don't want to go, then I won't know when you actually do want to go!". So he's gotten better at communicating and saying no when he doesn't want to, which has made things much better and easier. I really can't understand not wanting your partner to tell you when they don't want to do something.

 

(Obviously, this is only the case for for-fun events. If it's something like your partner being hospitalized, or a family funeral, etc - yes, suck it up and go regardless of how you feel).

Edited November 15, 2016 by Elswyth