Mateguarding - When does it end? [update: What to make of this?]

[road]

Not exactly. It was more like " Hmmm...there's her car. It's sort of near the office, but sort of near that hotel too.... or maybe she's not even in it, and HE drove..."

 

Yes exactly this is why you GPS the WW car and WW phone.

 

 

WW car one place

 

 

WW phone another

 

 

Something is up

[MidnightBlue1980]

I am the opposite gender in this and it could be said the same for serial cheating men... just waiting long enough for them to get ED...

 

Truth of the matter is people are having sex late in age so I image infidelity can happen at anytime in life, even in the nursing home as someone suggested. Also infidelity doesn't have to be physical.

 

I've read ED encourages infidelity. Through discussion on the other board, many of the xMM had ED. It was a common trait.

 

As for the panties, I actually have put them in my purse in the morning because I forgot to throw them in my gym bag and my bag was in the car. But it did freak my H out so I am careful not to do it again.

 

Neither of us has any passcodes on our phones. My FB password is saved on my computer. On a few occasions we have read each others PMs and texts and so on. It generally leads to an argument about boundaries so for a while now we have a mutual understanding that we each deserve a little privacy. But it's the honor system, I don't really know if he is reading everything. I don't think he is but I am not hiding anything.

 

At a certain point you just have to trust the other person or you will drive yourself crazy.

[fenix]

Hi OP, I am sorry your situation has brought you here.

Please note that I really sympathize with your situation so understand my next words as thought love.

You said before that in another forum some people say that mate-guarding was a beta behavior... well mate, begging your cheating wife(who doesn't want to help you heal from her cheating, who doesn't give you access to her telephone, who doesn't answer your questions) to come with you to bed and to forgive you for freaking out... that is really beta behavior... she knows she has you in her hands and hell she is using it.

Till you don't show a bit of self respect do not expect it from either...

I am sorry, but is the time to decide if you want to live as a doormat your whole life (and believe me that is what you are going to do if you continue this way) or if you want to have a bit of self respect and put some boundaries to your relationship.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do... your life, your choice!

[BTDT2012]

Yesterday after our huge fight, and after i went and made her (ok, begged her) to come to bed with me, she said she didn't feel loved. I think I love her; I have very strong emotions for me. We have two kids together. Having said that, the thought of another divorce terrifies because I know what would come. As far as life after I get over the pain of the divorce - right now it seems like heaven.

 

Sounds like gaslighting to me. It takes two people working hard to reconcile. You have to be willing to lose he marriage before you can save it. What has she done to be transparent?

[kgcolonel]

This really sounds like you're trying to float a ship that doesn't want to float....Really, it's time to call a lawyer.

[kgcolonel]

you have asked, "how do you know she's cheating on me"....at this point is it truly important whether or not she's still cheating? She scoffs when a polygraph is mentioned, (those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing), she's mean and to some extent abusive.....I believe you said that you have a MC appointment....I for sure would bring all this up and if it goes south, head straight to the lawyer's office. I am wondering if this is what she wants anyway but for some reason, doesn't want to file herself.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Yes exactly this is why you GPS the WW car and WW phone.

 

 

WW car one place

 

 

WW phone another

 

 

Something is up

 

If you strongly suspect something is up, then I suppose it's good idea to try to find out. I did that initially, and installed a keystroke logger, and found everything. So I get what you are saying.

 

 

This guy already knows she cheated, and already knows she is withholding more information. Already knows she isn't working on reconciliation. To me, that is enough to leave. Why go digging any further? It's counterproductive.

 

If she were being transparent, and helpful, and "honest and all that, I would drop the sleuthing routine, and get one with life. Since she apparently is not, I would drop the sleuthing even faster, and spend my time talking to an attorney.

 

In either case, he's already got what he needs in order to make a choice. He just isn't making it. And the sleuthing isn't helping anyone.

[Buckeye2]

Immediately after D-Day, I thought about a RA quite a bit and then I read this article about why RA do not work - they lack the passion of a real affair. A RA is about getting even but the original affair is about passion and real desire. Now if one day I meet a woman I feel real desire for and it has nothing to do with my wife, I just might have an affair but it won't be for revenge.

 

I agree. Very well stated. RAs are forced.

[Bufo]

The nasty comment about her looking to have another affair and taunting you with her panties are her acting the matador role hoping you'll be the crazy charging bull. I suspect she will be looking for a well hidden affair if you rise to her bait and act the charging bull role. Gives her reason to seek an affair.

 

You can only control your own behavior. Not hers or anybody else's.

 

Only you can decide when you have had enough. A poster on another site has a signature line that is to this effect: You know it's time to divorce when the pain of remaining married exceeds the pain of losing half your time with your kids. You seem to be reaching a pain threshold.

[Lion Heart]

What you just said up there^^^^^ Where she is, who is she talking to, is she where she says she is, is the reason why I say, if you cheat your gone.

 

If I cheated I would expect the same. To have to live your life always looking over your shoulder wondering is no way to live and in my humble opinion, I would rather be divorced and on my own rather then living a paranoid life.

 

HTP, I'm sorry for your pain.

 

There are many things from your story that make COMPLETE SENSE WHY you are still hypervigilant after 18 months post D Day.

 

1. YOU had to "trip over" the A. AFTER it was over. There was no coming to you with a full confession because of her guilt or remorse / sadness for broken vows etcetera.

 

Some WSs are only sorry BSs found out.

Not sorry they had an A.

 

2. You are uneasy because you don't know all the details.

WW is not forthcoming there either.

 

No wonder you don't trust her now.

 

Some BSs don't want to know.

Some need to know every detail. I'm one of the latter. If I don't know what they did, I'm not given the grace of the position to decide with the WHOLE TRUTH just what type of a person I married.

 

FULL DISCLOSURE may be what you need.

 

3. When a BS is a fully committed partner, it's almost impossible to comprehend HOW they could do such a thing.

 

Your M vows have been broken.

There's never a return to the "pristine" state of fidelity for you.

It's gone.

Understanding the impact on our Psyche is paramount to your mental health moving forward.

 

4. You're waiting until she's so old "it doesn't matter"?

Lol. Sorry but I've never heard of this before.

 

STBexVWH from here had As with WAY older women than him. I was shocked at the OW 11y older who was the size of a bus and VERY ugly, unemployed, penniless etc.

Then wow the 70yo when he was 40y came out later. Who was "kinda sexy for her age" as his reasoning. She had growths in her private parts. Like wow.

 

My point is this.

It's false hope holding out for your WW to age.

 

Potential Affair partners are a dime a dozen! THERE ARE thousands of them ready to drop their pants and screw something. Anything. Obviously! Sex with a M person is free after all. They save on the cost of a hooker.

 

This is MORE ABOUT THE COMMITMENT OF THE MARRIED PERSON than anyone outside the M.

You don't trust her with, he**! MANY GOOD REASONS.

 

5. Her anger? At YOU? Wtf is that about.

If WW thinks it should be all over now...it's all in the past blah blah blah. Then read up about Narcissist Personality Disorder. This is EXACTLY what they want.

 

People with NPD have distorted attitudes about ENTITLEMENT. Across a spectrum. Sone have OVERBLOWN entitlement issues.

They don't think THEY deserve CONSEQUENCES for their ACTIONS.

 

They think they are above all that.

 

They especially DO NOT LIKE their TRUE SELVES to be exposed.

They PRETEND.

 

Brother I left my previous WH that day.

This next WH was far more entangled and twisted.

 

I've never stayed with a cheating partner.

 

Finding LS and HOPING to reconcile was a complete waste of time for me. Not finding LS! lol. Attempting reconciliation.

 

I just didn't WANT A LIFE SENTENCE for a crime I didn't commit. It was sheer he**. Nothing less.

 

In the end I didn't care WHAT I LOST ...I had to end it asap. Get him as far out of my life as possible.

 

NOW the longer past all those D Day events, I am experiencing TRUE HEALING.

Staying was just relentless reopening wounds, never being able to heal. It's a mere painful existence and VWH was just not worth it.

 

Give yourself time. You can end the M anytime in the future because of WW affair. It may not be now. It could be one day though.

 

Best wishes

Lion Heart

[howtoproceed]

Thanks for all the feedback and advice.

I have read it all and appreciate it.

 

One thing I want to add is that when the affair happened, my wife and I were going through a very difficult time. There were lots of fights, we were sleeping in separate rooms and things were just really bad. Her point is that we are getting along better now - infinitely better than when the affair happened so she has no reason to cheat. On the other hand, when I discovered the affair (years after it happened) my wife broke down crying but only ever said it was a mistake; I can't say she showed any remorse. Her position is that she didn't know her AP was married, which may be true - I'm not a mind reader so I can't say what she knew or didn't know. I do know her AP wife did contact my wife and that ended the affair.

 

I just wanted to throw that out there.

 

Anyway thanks again. Reading the replies did help quite a bit.

[BluesPower]

That is not an real answer that she gave you from the get go. Who F****** cares if he was married or not. I had horrible times in my marriage, like you can only imagine, I did not cheat, until much later.

 

She cheated, disrespected you and she is still doing it. If that is the life you want to lead then that is up to you.

 

Good luck...

[dreamingoftigers]

Until you have the combination of the following that suits you:

 

1. You trust her again.
   
2. You trust yourself to respond appropriately if she strays again.
   
3. You've regained your self-respect and dignity.
   
4. You've fully forgiven her.
   

Until then, you'll probably always be uncomfortable.

 

Wow. No wonder I'm.still uncomfortable.

[aileD]

This just seems to keep you focused on the AP and not healing your relationship with your wife.

 

That's the only thing that is going to help you trust her again, is actually doing the work so you both are fulfilled, happy and have openness and understanding.

 

Does it mean she will NEVER cheat again? No. But it definitely lowers the chances, especially where it seems like your wife really did think it was a mistake.

 

at some point there has to be a leap of faith on your part. I wish you well.

[ladydesigner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidKnightDreams View Post

Until you have the combination of the following that suits you:

You trust her again.

You trust yourself to respond appropriately if she strays again.

You've regained your self-respect and dignity.

You've fully forgiven her.

Until then, you'll probably always be uncomfortable.

 

Wow. No wonder I'm.still uncomfortable.

 

 

Right?! The only 2 that have happened for me so far are that I trust myself now to respond appropriately if WH were to stray again and that I have regained my self-respect and dignity. I will never get to trust again or forgiveness. Too much has happened for me to trust and forgive, but I am okay with that.

[dreamingoftigers]

Right?! The only 2 that have happened for me so far are that I trust myself now to respond appropriately if WH were to stray again and that I have regained my self-respect and dignity. I will never get to trust again or forgiveness. Too much has happened for me to trust and forgive, but I am okay with that.

 

Bingo.

Exactly the same. And they just don't get it at all.

[dichotomy]

So my wife cheated on me and D-Day was about 18 mnths ago.

Long story short, I can't get past the hyper-vigilance.

I'm ALWAYS worried about where she, how she is talking to, when she's on the phone or computer and it's just exhausting me.

 

Today for example, she had an appointment with a dentist that she told me about and that she would be leaving work early and may be late back home. I immediately panicked and grilled her and put the VAR back in her car. I also, just 5 minutes ago, called her dentist's office to make sure she was there. Of course, the receptionist said she was getting her teeth cleaned. Now I know when she gets home she'll be angry.

 

So how long does this phase last?

 

The mind-movies and flashbacks and obsession with the other man have all faded to just about nothing but this mate-guarding doesn't end.

 

And the resentment too - I'm still really really really ( and I mean REALLY) resentful. When does that end?

 

 

Its been 11 years now.

 

 

1) Checking up - I have never stopped checking on my WW. For the first few years it was a panicky mate guarding - checking up every day. Hard on me emotionally. I actually did find one last attempt of contact from OM though a GF nearly 4 years later. After that the checking up changed - along with my attitude about it. It became less frequent but also more emotionally detached, logical, and not upsetting. If she cheats - she cheats - I am not scared or worried - I just want to know about it so I can decide on what to do about it.

 

2) Mind Movies - less frequent but still occur in minor ways. A movie or TV show about sex or cheating will trigger a image. Or something stupid she says or does or does not do. 10% of what it was but still there occasionally.

 

3) Resentment - In my case I got a double hit with the all too common crash in sex in marriage. Primarily because of this low sex issue, which all by itself causes resentment - I have extra resentment due to my wife's wild times. I think affairs create weaknesses in marriages, and stress from something else (say sexual passion issues, money, or whatever) can cause additional emotional reactions or resentment over old issues. Like an old football injury that acts up when it rains outside.

 

 

Bottom line - these hard feelings will all decrease with time - but I don't think they ever go away completely.

Edited September 26, 2016 by dichotomy

[howtoproceed]

My wife goes to a Chiropractor twice a week and today, out of the blue, I decided to call and see if she was there or not. So I called and I got an answering machine saying the office closed at 6 pm. My wife said her appointment was at 6:15 pm and when she got home, I asked her and she first of course got angry that I would be asking and then confirmed that the appointment was at 6:15 pm. I told her that I called and got an answering machine and it said the office closed at 6 pm.

 

She got really angry and said that the office had told her they could work with her and stay open a little later for her on Thursdays and she said she told me that. As I recall, she told me they were open until 7pm on Thursdays and thats why she goes on Thursdays.

 

Who knows if she's telling the truth but what she said next bothers. She said that I was abusing her by checking up on her like that and that I was a freak for doing. I'm thinking I had a legitimate concern and that asking her to explain what's going on isn't abuse.

 

What does Loveshack think: is it abusive to check up on her like that or is she gaslighting me?

[aileD]

You have to give somewhere.

 

I'd be totally annoyed at your constant doubting and stalking too, and I'm a BS!

 

If she's going to cheat ...she'll cheat anyway.

 

If you think she will do that then there is no reason for you to continue in this marriage.

 

You're becoming obsessed and its hindering your marital recovery.

 

Seriously, it's gone on this long and if you can't even trust her a little bit then you should just divorce her. It'd be ok to do that... She cheated, you'd be within your boundaries to do that.

 

It's ok. Some people can't move on after their mate has an affair. Maybe that's just you. It doesn't make you a bad person, some people just can't do it.

[MidnightBlue1980]

My wife goes to a Chiropractor twice a week and today, out of the blue, I decided to call and see if she was there or not. So I called and I got an answering machine saying the office closed at 6 pm. My wife said her appointment was at 6:15 pm and when she got home, I asked her and she first of course got angry that I would be asking and then confirmed that the appointment was at 6:15 pm. I told her that I called and got an answering machine and it said the office closed at 6 pm.

 

She got really angry and said that the office had told her they could work with her and stay open a little later for her on Thursdays and she said she told me that. As I recall, she told me they were open until 7pm on Thursdays and thats why she goes on Thursdays.

 

Who knows if she's telling the truth but what she said next bothers. She said that I was abusing her by checking up on her like that and that I was a freak for doing. I'm thinking I had a legitimate concern and that asking her to explain what's going on isn't abuse.

 

What does Loveshack think: is it abusive to check up on her like that or is she gaslighting me?

 

I do not think it is abusive. Twice a week is a lot. Most people go once a week to a chiro unless there is something really wrong. I would just ask for the receipt. I have to pay when I go, or if she uses insurance, ask to see it. You can also just call tomorrow when they are open and ask.

 

If there is no history, you may be looking a bit paranoid but if she has nothing to hide, she should be amused but show you something to prove it. We all get a bit paranoid.

[howtoproceed]

Twice a week is a lot.

 

She recently got into a car accident - about 9 weeks ago - but I'm starting to wonder when this comes to an end. The accident was the other drivers fault so she says she pays nothing out of pocket. My wife controls the money so I have no way to confirm that.

 

It just seems weird they would keep an office open like that.

[bubbaganoosh]

My wife goes to a Chiropractor twice a week and today, out of the blue, I decided to call and see if she was there or not. So I called and I got an answering machine saying the office closed at 6 pm. My wife said her appointment was at 6:15 pm and when she got home, I asked her and she first of course got angry that I would be asking and then confirmed that the appointment was at 6:15 pm. I told her that I called and got an answering machine and it said the office closed at 6 pm.

 

She got really angry and said that the office had told her they could work with her and stay open a little later for her on Thursdays and she said she told me that. As I recall, she told me they were open until 7pm on Thursdays and thats why she goes on Thursdays.

 

Who knows if she's telling the truth but what she said next bothers. She said that I was abusing her by checking up on her like that and that I was a freak for doing. I'm thinking I had a legitimate concern and that asking her to explain what's going on isn't abuse.

 

What does Loveshack think: is it abusive to check up on her like that or is she gaslighting me?

 

 

Let her get pissed and when she does all you have to say is that things wouldn't be like this if she would have kept her marriage vows and behaved in a responsible manner. I would let her know that she's the one that caused the lack of trust and if the shoe was on the other foot she would do the same.

 

There comes a point in time when you have to put your big boy pants on and lay it on the table. She caused this mess. It's hers, she owns it and it's up to her to make it right and if she can't do it then go find a lawyer, have her served and maybe she'll finally get it through her head that her actions caused this mess.

 

Maybe if she sees that your at the end of your rope and you not taking it any longer she'll wake the hell up. It's up to you. You can sit there and beg until your blue in the face or make some greatly needed changes.

[MidnightBlue1980]

She recently got into a car accident - about 9 weeks ago - but I'm starting to wonder when this comes to an end. The accident was the other drivers fault so she says she pays nothing out of pocket. My wife controls the money so I have no way to confirm that.

 

It just seems weird they would keep an office open like that.

 

It's not that odd if the dtr is getting paid for a client seeing him/her 2x a week, esp if workers comp or insurance is paying for it. I have a client who is a chiro and he works late one night. I bet the admin is gone.

 

But if you are worried, which you are, just go there next week. I do whatever it takes to keep my husband secure. That is my job now. And it is your wife's. Granted within reason, but I do not see this as an unreasonable thing. My H would totally show up randomly.

[Survivedtothriving]

My wife goes to a Chiropractor twice a week and today, out of the blue, I decided to call and see if she was there or not. So I called and I got an answering machine saying the office closed at 6 pm. My wife said her appointment was at 6:15 pm and when she got home, I asked her and she first of course got angry that I would be asking and then confirmed that the appointment was at 6:15 pm. I told her that I called and got an answering machine and it said the office closed at 6 pm.

 

She got really angry and said that the office had told her they could work with her and stay open a little later for her on Thursdays and she said she told me that. As I recall, she told me they were open until 7pm on Thursdays and thats why she goes on Thursdays.

 

Who knows if she's telling the truth but what she said next bothers. She said that I was abusing her by checking up on her like that and that I was a freak for doing. I'm thinking I had a legitimate concern and that asking her to explain what's going on isn't abuse.

 

What does Loveshack think: is it abusive to check up on her like that or is she gaslighting me?

 

What is keeping you in this marriage? You are living a stressful and miserable life checking up on this woman every second of every day. The checking up proves nothing. It's been 18 months and she still isn't honest with you. Cheating or not, your marriage isn't a marriage. Who cares if she is cheating? Are YOU happy? Is this what YOU want from YOUR life? This is YOUR life, so take control of it NOW. If you want to stay miserable, stay married. From what we are reading, she really doesn't want to be married to you anyway. If she is always angry with you, what kind of marriage example is that setting for your children? She didn't stick to the marriage vows and shows no intent of reconciling properly.

 

 

My wife took two weeks to go NC after D Day and give me access to everything without getting mad. It's been 6 months of MC and IC and we are in a pretty good place since I can see and feel her remorse. I can pick up her phone and do literally anything with it and she doesn't even notice. I can read any email or show up randomly to places she is at and I get greeted with a smile. She just expects it now and never gets mad at me for asking questions like, "you aren't still cheating on me, right"?

 

 

I don't know how you've gone 18 months.

[BluesPower]

Dude, your wife is sleeping with OM.

 

Everyone has told you and you are still in denial.

 

You are just being a cuckold fool, I am sorry.

 

You she be able to look at everything all the time without question.

 

You need to file for divorce. She is never, never, never going to stop screwing around.

 

I guess you will have to see them screwing on your couch in order to believe it.

 

She was screwing him when she went to the "Chiropractor", and you just bought it.

 

I feel so sorry for you...