Asking my wife for an open marriage (sensitive topic) [updated]

[LostDecades]

Brjen,

 

Your story moved me to register today after having been a longstanding lurker, and offer a different set of thoughts for you to consider.

 

I am struck by your powerful wedding vow, how you have been living that as an honorable man that has been true to his wife.

 

I believe more information about your wife's illness, therapy, and prognosis may help you in making a decision.

 

I am suggesting you meet with your wife's health care team, as an advocate for her, to discuss her treatment plan, treatment goals and to revalidate that the type of therapy she is receiving is still appropriate. This can reassure you that she is receiving the best care for her recovery. Have the health care team walk you through the types of therapy available for rape survivors and why the current treatment modality is still the best for her recovery. As her advocate, respectfully and professionally challenge their thinking.

 

At the same time you can discuss what you can do to aid in her recovery and learn what, if any, level of intimacy with you she is capable of providing without jeopardizing her recovery. I hope you are both able to stay connected on an emotional level, and touch and hold each other to stay bonded to one another.

 

I suggest you seek individual counseling for yourself so you can fully discuss your emotionally vulnerable state and your thoughts and feeling as the husband of a rape survivor. This conversation may lead to more insights and suggestions that can inform your decision.

 

And all of this information can help you and wife keep your line of communication open.

 

I do have an opinion regarding whether you should seek sexual intimacy outside of your marriage, however it doesn't add to the posting that have already been made. My suggestions only serve to hopefully give you a more solid platform to guide your thinking.

 

Your integrity and the honorable way you are working your way through this troubling period of your life are impressive and inspiring.

 

May you and your wife find peace.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Excellent post LostDecades, hope you stick around and keep posting love your insight!

 

 

Brjen, I can totally see and empathize with both sides of how horrible this situation is. I really feel for you and for your wife. The trauma she has experienced is something I can't even begin to wrap my head around (what a cruel and unfortunate thing to happen to any human being )

 

I can also really empathize with your destiny in this relationship. We all promise for better of worse when we are saying those vows but we tend to block out life's tragedies that could potentially happen to us when we are making that kind of promise and think it happens to everyone else, not me. And here you are living it.

 

I would not ask for an open marriage if I were you, like many have already suggested, it will only create a mountain of problems. It could potentially expose you emotionally to fall for someone else and nothing will be more painful to your wife than knowing she has lost you to one of your sex partners that she begrudgingly invited into her life.

 

You are craving physical contact and intimacy but getting that from someone else will satisfy an itch but will still leave you intimately distant from your wife and do nothing for your marriage. Really what you want is that with her.

 

The best course of action is to have a frank discussion with her about how this is affecting you. While you are not going to pressure her into having sex with you, there needs to be more focus on her recovery plan in this respect in her therapy and whatever she is doing to heal the trauma of the rape. You gently need to remind her that this is something you are willing to work with and build but that there has to be some move towards that goal on her part.

 

People get cured of phobias all the time, and they do it by taking baby-steps towards normalizing the very thing they fear the most. She needs to get on a game plan to do that, it's time!

 

I find it also selfish, though she may not realize she is being selfish, that she says "don't leave me, if you leave me no one will want me like this" That is too much pressure to put on another human being. She needs to start wrapping her head around the fact that this needs to change. She can't be a victim for the rest of her life and expect you to be ok with that because you made a vow of "for better or worse." You've been patient and your patience is bound to run out.

 

I don't want to come off off-handed by what I just said, as I do not even fully appreciate just how scarring something like being "gang-raped" is on the psyche, I am trying to be empathetic in my suggestions.

 

An open marriage is not the solution, and judging by how much love you have expressed you have for your wife, I also don't think separation is the answer. The answer would lie more in working harder to take small steps towards opening that intimacy up again. 6 years is a very long time to go celibate.

 

I'm truly sorry for your situation.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Sunkissedpatio

[BaileyB]

Having read so many thoughts and perspectives, I think the answer to your question lies with your wife.

 

If she knows that it is important to you to share an emotional and physical/sexual relationship, she will need to make the decision to trust you enough to work toward overcoming the trauma she has experienced. What you are wanting is not unreasonable for a husband.

 

However, if she is unable to trust and seek assistance to attempt to overcome the trauma, you may need to consider a separation. No doubt, this decision will be incredibly painful for you both. But, as some have said, if she associates you with this traumatic event in her life, it may actually be for the best.

 

I would encourage you to continue to talk, with each other and with your counsellors. I would hope that she is able to trust you enough to try and move past the trauma... Because I can't imagine that she wants to remain stuck in a painful existence with the memory of the event affecting her ability to have a loving relationship.

 

For me, an open relationship would not be the answer. I would rather separate than know that my husband was seeking comfort and sexual release outside the relationship.

[brjen]

My wife knows that it's hard for me, and she does try. She isn't sitting there thinking that it's okay if we never have sex again and I have to go without. She does want to have sex and she does want to recover for herself. There have been varying degrees of attempts but they fail very quickly. I haven't seen her naked since the sexual assault. I know that she has some scars on her body and she went for scar removal, so that plays a role.

 

She see's her therapists weekly. Currently I go with her about once a month. Earlier this year we did more intense sex therapy and went together twice weekly. There was results, but they were so small to me, huge to her) that we have stopped.

 

If she weren't trying at all, I think I would have left long, long ago. I know that 6 years is a very long time. When I talk to people I am close to about it, they are surprised that she is still this affected 6 years later. I have seen that opinion on this thread as well. Everyone reacts differently to trauma, unfortunately my wife essentially shut down. The first 2 years were living hell. The first year she was in a psychiatric care facility being tube fed and she would not talk or look at you. She sat and blinked, for a year. Her caregivers said it was a unusual but not unheard of reaction. Her roommate was a lady who quit talking for 8 years after she watched her husband burn to death.

 

-------------

I talked to my wife last night and told her that I was having difficulties with our sexless marriage, that we should go back to therapy more often. I didn't bring up open marriage or divorce at all. I let the conversation flow as it normally does, over the years we have learned to communicate well and be very open with each other. We just discussed it, that she is still working on it, if there is anything she can do ("phone sex" would probably get in me off in about 5 seconds at this point), what steps we can take to keep moving forwards. The conversation was going very well. Right before it ended she said "If you are having that need met somewhere else, please don't ever tell me. I know that you need it but I don't want to know about it. Ever." I didn't respond, which is stupid I think I should have. I didn't know what to say. I don't want to ask further questions because I don't want to press it or lead her to believe that I am "cheating". I don't know if she would consider it cheating or not.

 

 

You are thinking of Rylie and here are all of her threads.

 

I read those threads and they feel so familiar yet so different. Three things that I don't want to happen are for me to fall for a woman I sleep with, for my wife and I to finally have sex and realize that I want something else (which is seems like her husband did) or for her to realize she wants someone else. Though there are no guarantees in life and it has opened my eyes to the other side or how things could go.

[BaileyB]

Your post is absolutely heartbreaking to me. Your wife has suffered unimaginable trauma. She is very blessed to have a husband who is as loving and supportive as you have been for her.

 

I hope that you continue with the counselling and I pray that things work our for you and your beautiful wife.

[Friskyone4u]

You are a very thoughtful guy and should be commended.

 

Since sh brought it up, it is on her mind. Reassure her you are NOT cheating.

 

Your thread is one of the toughest and most heart wrenching I have read. I hope to hell it works out for you both

[BettyDraper]

My wife knows that it's hard for me, and she does try. She isn't sitting there thinking that it's okay if we never have sex again and I have to go without. She does want to have sex and she does want to recover for herself. There have been varying degrees of attempts but they fail very quickly. I haven't seen her naked since the sexual assault. I know that she has some scars on her body and she went for scar removal, so that plays a role.

 

She see's her therapists weekly. Currently I go with her about once a month. Earlier this year we did more intense sex therapy and went together twice weekly. There was results, but they were so small to me, huge to her) that we have stopped.

 

If she weren't trying at all, I think I would have left long, long ago. I know that 6 years is a very long time. When I talk to people I am close to about it, they are surprised that she is still this affected 6 years later. I have seen that opinion on this thread as well. Everyone reacts differently to trauma, unfortunately my wife essentially shut down. The first 2 years were living hell. The first year she was in a psychiatric care facility being tube fed and she would not talk or look at you. She sat and blinked, for a year. Her caregivers said it was a unusual but not unheard of reaction. Her roommate was a lady who quit talking for 8 years after she watched her husband burn to death.

 

-------------

I talked to my wife last night and told her that I was having difficulties with our sexless marriage, that we should go back to therapy more often. I didn't bring up open marriage or divorce at all. I let the conversation flow as it normally does, over the years we have learned to communicate well and be very open with each other. We just discussed it, that she is still working on it, if there is anything she can do ("phone sex" would probably get in me off in about 5 seconds at this point), what steps we can take to keep moving forwards. The conversation was going very well. Right before it ended she said "If you are having that need met somewhere else, please don't ever tell me. I know that you need it but I don't want to know about it. Ever." I didn't respond, which is stupid I think I should have. I didn't know what to say. I don't want to ask further questions because I don't want to press it or lead her to believe that I am "cheating". I don't know if she would consider it cheating or not.

 

 

 

 

I read those threads and they feel so familiar yet so different. Three things that I don't want to happen are for me to fall for a woman I sleep with, for my wife and I to finally have sex and realize that I want something else (which is seems like her husband did) or for her to realize she wants someone else. Though there are no guarantees in life and it has opened my eyes to the other side or how things could go.

 

You say that you haven't seen your wife naked since the sexual assault....if you don't my asking, what attempts has your made to be sexual without you seeing her nude? Has she tried to give you a hand job or oral?

 

I'm just going to throw out some suggestions that worked for me. Please do not take offense to them as I am only trying to help.

 

I was with an abusive man who loved to tell me that my genitals smelled and tasted terrible. This made me very nervous about receiving oral. My husband kept complimenting me and kissing that area. Have you tried kissing your wife's scars and telling her how beautiful and courageous she is?

 

I have had a very hard time with vaginismus due to CSA and rape. My husband has given me lots of foreplay and spoken softly to me during sex. If I was tense or in pain, he would stop immediately and hold me close to his chest. If I showed signs of dissociating during sex, my husband would stop and look into my eyes while asking me if I'm okay. He has also focused on non sexual touch in the bedroom like full body massages.

 

All of those very loving and gentle measures have made it so that I no longer experience the involuntary tensing of my vagina muscles and crippling fears associated with my sexual trauma. It's obvious that you are a caring man so I have no doubt that you're a very considerate lover as well. Maybe you have tried such things already but these suggestions are futile if your wife can't/won't be naked around you.

[aileD]

I'm not condoning anything.

 

But If you chose the sex-outside-the-marriage route.....please pay a professional for it.

 

Anything else is just seems like opening a can of worms

[BettyDraper]

Reading the OP's last update and his wife's request, it appears that she has given him tacit approval to be unfaithful as long as she doesn't know about it. There are many wives in certain social classes who will look the other way when their husbands' cheat, as long as they can keep enjoying the perks of a certain lifestyle. I know this situation is vastly different but the principle is the same.

 

Brjen, I know that you want to remain faithful to your wife and I commend you for that. However, if there is no way that she can be sexual and you aren't going to divorce her, then I don't see any other way to get your sexual needs met.

[jen1447]

Reading the OP's last update and his wife's request, it appears that she has given him tacit approval to be unfaithful as long as she doesn't know about it. There are many wives in certain social classes who will look the other way when their husbands' cheat, as long as they can keep enjoying the perks of a certain lifestyle. I know this situation is vastly different but the principle is the same.

 

Brjen, I know that you want to remain faithful to your wife and I commend you for that. However, if there is no way that she can be sexual and you aren't going to divorce her, then I don't see any other way to get your sexual needs met.

 

fwiw, IME they never actually mean that. What they mean is "until I decide this offends my sensibilities and I don't want to do it anymore, which will be sooner rather than later, bc I actually hate the idea." And that's just for generally healthy ppl ....I can't imagine what would be going on in the mind of a woman like OP's wife.

 

Bscly ppl who embrace open relationships (as opposed to just tolerating them) do it lustily and w a lot of vigor - on both sides. And ppl who allow "pay to play" schemes are never actually happy doing it unless they pretty much despise their partner anyway.

[camillalev]

OP what methods have you tried to be close physically? Maybe you can try giving her full body massages or taking a bubble bath together? You said you havent seen her naked in 6 years, is she usually fully clothed around you? If so maybe you can try cuddling under the covers with her in a small top and knickers?

[BettyDraper]

OP what methods have you tried to be close physically? Maybe you can try giving her full body massages or taking a bubble bath together? You said you havent seen her naked in 6 years, is she usually fully clothed around you? If so maybe you can try cuddling under the covers with her in a small top and knickers?

 

This. OP, you and your wife would do well to read "The Sexual Healing Journey" together. That book speaks of relearning touch.

Sensual activities such as taking baths together and the full body massages I mentioned can be immensely helpful.

[Sunkissedpatio]

What about Kundalini and Tantric Healing?

I saw a thing on tv the other day of a couple trying to reconnect intimacy through tantric healing. It looked interesting.

[lil hoodlum]

I don't know if I can go the rest of my life without sex, or kissing.

 

 

The part about not even kissing stood out in my mind.

 

Why can't she even kiss you?

[bathtub-row]

As tragic as the situation is, I think it's up to your wife to either get past her fears or let you go so that you can have a full life. Simply stating that she's never going to change is a real cop-out, and it means that she continues to let those jerks control her life and ruin her marriage. I get it that what happened to her is completely horrible and incomprehensible. But she is doing you and herself a true disservice by not coming around even six years later.

 

If I were her, I would try to push past it and get back to normal. From a purely clinical point of view, you could have this sexless, childless relationship with her being married or not married. The truth is, you're going to cheat eventually. This relationship will not sustain itself under these circumstances forever. Something will eventually give.

[grays]

I was wondering about kissing, too, and whether or not there was any cuddling, hugging, caressing. I think those can make a huge difference in quality of life even if there's no sex.

[wmacbride]

op,

one thing that can devastate a person, man or women, who has been sexually assaulted is the sense of a loss of control. This can be coupled with guilt, shame, fear and worse.

 

Were the men who did this to her caught, charged , prosecuted and found guilty? That can make a big difference for a woman in her situation.

 

It sounds like your wife is coping with mental illness, and that's not something you can just will away.

 

It is a rough spot you are in, but asking her for an open marriage may be too much for her to bear. I'm not saying divorce is the right answer, but if it is what you decide to do, make sure she has a strong support system that does not include you. She will need to learn to get along without you, and you without her.

[BettyDraper]

As tragic as the situation is, I think it's up to your wife to either get past her fears or let you go so that you can have a full life. Simply stating that she's never going to change is a real cop-out, and it means that she continues to let those jerks control her life and ruin her marriage. I get it that what happened to her is completely horrible and incomprehensible. But she is doing you and herself a true disservice by not coming around even six years later.

 

If I were her, I would try to push past it and get back to normal. From a purely clinical point of view, you could have this sexless, childless relationship with her being married or not married. The truth is, you're going to cheat eventually. This relationship will not sustain itself under these circumstances forever. Something will eventually give.

 

This. Pushing past the effects of sexual assault is enormously hard but it can be done if the survivor is willing. I refused to let my rapist and molester win. I also did not want to use my Complex PTSD as an excuse to ruin my relationships. The willingness to change has to be there but if the OP's wife can't/won't even kiss her husband, I'm afraid that this marriage doesn't have a strong chance of enduring.

[Mr. Lucky]

I was wondering about kissing, too, and whether or not there was any cuddling, hugging, caressing. I think those can make a huge difference in quality of life even if there's no sex.

 

I doubt many men - or women - would accept non-sexual touch as a substitute.

 

However, were the OP's needs met in some other way, that form of intimacy would indeed be an important marital component...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Just a Guy]

Hi BRJEN, It is really sad to read about the situation that you find yourself in. I had a few questions to ask you if you feel you would like to answer them. Firstly, are you US based? Secondly, you said that your wife was sexually attacked while she was walking home. Was she walking home at night and was it a lonely and secluded area? If that was so why was she there? Also there would have been ample information and evidence that the area was dangerous for single people walking home at night because they might be robbed, mugged or, in the case of a woman, raped. Did no one come to her aid?

 

At any rate whether you answer these questions or not I have a suggestion to make in additions to so many others that have already been made. The suggestion is that you try a psychotherapist who uses hypnosis as a tool for treating his/her patients. I say this because, apparently, your wife has developed some sort of mental /emotional block which in the normal course and with the usual lines of treatment, is not responding favourably. Hypnosis can be made to (a) uncover the particular type of block that is holding her back and (b) it can be used to suppress or nullify the block using appropriate suggestions by the the therapist, such that your wife will feel normal again and the therapist can also make suggestions to her that she is normally a very sexual person and this may enable her sex drive to increase exponentially. You see the sub conscious mind is a very powerful entity and yet is rather primitive. After her sexual assault her sub conscious mind sees sex as something dangerous to life and limb and to be avoided like the plague. The only way of over riding the sub conscious mind's programming is by hypnotizing it and then planting appropriate suggestions to minimize and mitigate the effects of the block. Since most of what has been suggested to you is either unpalatable for you or, given your situation, not really practically feasible, I would suggest that you try this as a last ditch course of action. Nothing to lose really and everything to gain. Warm wishes!

[aileD]

Hi BRJEN, It is really sad to read about the situation that you find yourself in. I had a few questions to ask you if you feel you would like to answer them. Firstly, are you US based? Secondly, you said that your wife was sexually attacked while she was walking home. Was she walking home at night and was it a lonely and secluded area? If that was so why was she there? Also there would have been ample information and evidence that the area was dangerous for single people walking home at night because they might be robbed, mugged or, in the case of a woman, raped. Did no one come to her aid?

 

Could you please explain why this is relevant? It sounds a little like blaming the rape victim for her attack? I really hope that's not where you're going with that, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt....why do you want to know this?

[CarrieT]

Could you please explain why this is relevant? It sounds a little like blaming the rape victim for her attack? I really hope that's not where you're going with that, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt....why do you want to know this?

 

Agree with this.

 

I am a triple-rape victim and the specifics of why and how my rapes occurred, if I was robbed or mugged, or if there was immediate assistance is not germane to how I deal with future intimacies.

[eightytwenty]

Dang.. Is all I can say. I'm going to try to keep this short.

 

 

After 6 years there should atleast be progress... Or something. Bravo for being a great husband, but I do think it's time for her to start trying.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Hi BRJEN, It is really sad to read about the situation that you find yourself in. I had a few questions to ask you if you feel you would like to answer them. Firstly, are you US based? Secondly, you said that your wife was sexually attacked while she was walking home. Was she walking home at night and was it a lonely and secluded area? If that was so why was she there? Also there would have been ample information and evidence that the area was dangerous for single people walking home at night because they might be robbed, mugged or, in the case of a woman, raped. Did no one come to her aid?

 

Just a Guy your line of questioning seemed odd to me as well but then I saw that you are in India, which Delhi is the rape capital of the world, and perhaps unbeknownst to you we have very different views on rape in the western world.

I would like to respecftfully point out that to us, asking questions about where the OP's wife was raped and why she was walking there alone etc., is an implication that she somehow brought this upon herself.

 

We have 0 tolerance for rape and under no circumstances is a woman to be made to feel inferior, inaprioriate or shamed for this type of criminal act committed against her. Unlike the chauvinistic tendencies from officials and men in general in India to view the woman as the reason for rape, which is a very outdated outlook, we blame the criminals here not the victim regardless of where she was walking at the time or how she was dressed.

 

Don't be surprised if your line of questioning comes off as insensitive.

 

The hypnosis suggestion was a good one, not everyone agrees with doing hypnosis but in this case it might be a very effective course of action.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Sunkissedpatio

[Just a Guy]

Hi aileD, Carrie, and Sunkissedpatio, I am sorry if I have offended you but let me make it very clear that I was not trying to find ways to blame the OP's wife for the tragic circumstances that befell her. Yes I am from India but that does NOT mean that all Indians are insensitive buffoons who think poorly of women especially women who are victims of rape. In fact, as you may know there is a very strong public movement here against the laxity shown by the police and other administrative agencies in the case of rape incidences and people take this matter very seriously. I am also aware that in Western nations there is great sensitivity in the handling of rape and of rape victims.

 

As you may have noticed I usually ask some questions before I respond to posts on LS because I want to get a perspective or a holistic view of the circumstances surrounding the case. I admit that my questions here may not have been very relevant and I was probably curious to know as to how such a tragic incident could have occurred. My assumption was that streets and roads in the US usually have enough people using them at a particular point of time and that some one could have come to the aid of OP's wife to prevent such an incident taking place. That is the reason I qualified my response by saying that OP need answer my questions only IF he felt like it. Please be rest assured that I am the last person to want to hurt someone's feelings and I usually bend over backward to ensure that I do not step on peoples toes. I hope that clears any misgivings in your minds. Thank you.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Just a Guy