What options does a single guy in his late 20s/early 30s have?

[NJ123]

This isn't likely to be a huge issue - especially if you live in a developed country, there are more people than ever choosing to be child-free. Of both genders.

 

 

 

Finding a compatible partner for a happy relationship that lasts in the long run IS a bit like finding a needle in a haystack, for almost everyone. You just gotta do what other people do - put yourself out there, talk to women, and make some mistakes.

 

What are you doing to meet women, what qualities do you need in her, and what do you have to offer in return? You don't have to answer here if you don't want to, but worth considering and seeing where the overlap lies. If there isn't much (or any) overlap, then perhaps time to consider working on some things.

 

True, I just think I'd need to find someone that's unsure of if they want kids or not or that don't want kids at all.

 

And the qualities I need in her is way too much to list if I want to get specific. Some are major things where they would be instant deal breakers while others there could be some leeway on them where I could possibly accept those things as long as there's a lot of other things I like about her.

[mizunomead]

My experience dating as a 35 yr old. Women from early twenties to about 50 or so will be interested. Personally I went on dates with women from 23 to 46 yrs old while I was dating. Tons of options.

[NJ123]

My experience dating as a 35 yr old. Women from early twenties to about 50 or so will be interested. Personally I went on dates with women from 23 to 46 yrs old while I was dating. Tons of options.

 

I'm attracted to a lot of women in their 40s so I guess I have that going for me at least where if I'm single into my 40s it wouldn't matter to me dating a 40 something year old since I find a lot of them attractive.

[ZA Dater]

If you're single in your late 20s/early 30s, you're likely in a good spot. Consider the "investments" of time people make in their 20s and how it affects the rest of their lives.

 

I have a friend who's married to his second ever girlfriend, the one he met a week or two after he broke up with the previous one. They've been together for almost a decade. Another friend of mine got married at 25 and five years later, has 2 kids. There's nothing wrong with these decisions, but to me, they sure seemed like they've complicated or prevented a lot of potential growth, successes, experiences, adventures, etc that they might've had otherwise, and now that may be manifesting itself in unhappiness and resentment in them. But they invested their time in their relationships rather than other things (or at least a mixture of other things) that might have been more beneficial or differently satisfying. They might have left a lot of itches unscratched, so to speak. They put off getting advanced degrees, they didn't try hard enough to achieve their dreams because they had to compromise things for the relationships, etc. These people invested their time in romantic relationships, seemingly sometimes at the expense of their own personal goals and desires.

 

Conversely, I have another friend who's single and all he does is make friends, try and be the life of the party, stay out late, party, and generally act like a teenager (he's 30). Recently it's come out that he's got some sort of depression or anxiety and my guess is that he doesn't feel "loved." He's spent his 20s trying to be liked, and even though he is, he still feels empty inside, probably because he hasn't accomplished much professionally and most of his friends have advanced further in life than he has. He chose to invest in social relationships above all else, and the dividends were not that great.

 

All things considered, I think a measured approach is good. If you're in your late 20s/early 30s and you're still single, hopefully you've invested your time wisely. Like in your career, or in doing things you can't do when you're older, things that make you interesting, etc. There is no better age to be if you've taken the time to do things wisely, like built a great career, saved your money, learned your lessons, conquered all your demons, and gotten whatever needs to be exorcized out of your system. I just turned 30 and admittedly, watching my friends pair off and get married made me doubt my choices at times, but seeing them subsequently falter and experience less than ideal situations reaffirmed to me that I was going about things the right way by clearing out all the obstacles before I decided to run the track. I won't have any of their problems like money, or feeling resentful because I never sowed my wild oats, or not picking the right career path and being miserable about it/making my partner/kids miserable, etc.

 

So in my mind, if you're at the age, you have a distinct advantage which will make you incredibly attractive. You can solve all your problems and figure out your life path ahead of time, before you settle down and have it complicated by another person (and possibly kids), which will hopefully yield a much less problematic life, barring any unforeseen circumstances. If you're in your late 20s/early 30s with it all figured out, you are a prime, grade A bachelor with no baggage. Women age 25-30 will beat a path to your door. Solve your problems, figure your life out, be interesting, be responsible, plan ahead, and the rest of life will hopefully be pretty easy and fun. I'm 30 and I'm loving every second of it, largely because I spent my late 20s busting my ass, making mistakes, learning from them, and not diving into anything too impulsively.

 

I think some of this is true, other of which in my opinion is somewhat pie in the sky.

 

Sure, plan ahead, I spent most of my teen years planning my 20's, planning how I wanted things to go and worked towards that. The reality is nothing I wanted or worked for I got. I puts studies before social, great thinking I could pick up social later on, not really true. Biggest mistake I made in life and I pay for it every single day.

 

My point is there needs to be a balance somewhere, too much of one and too much of the other just doesn't work.

 

I think EVERY SINGLE perpetually unsuccessful guy has significant baggage irrespective of other achievements. You cannot just wipe away years of rejection and disappointment, some here say you can, I counter with how many of those who suggest that, have themselves been perpetually unsuccessful.

 

In my opinion if by late 20's and early 30s you have never had a relationship, chances are you never will simply because you cannot just come off the bench and play a game others have been playing for years.

 

Yes, you can achieve things you can build businesses, you can have all those things but unless you are hugely successful it doesn't really make much difference because the ladies will ALWAYS choose the experienced guy. I write articles, I am published on multiple platforms, I run multiple companies, I have built up a social club from almost nothing, none of that matters one jot because I have no experience and its profoundly obvious to any and every lady who meets me and its obvious to guys too.

 

Saying that spending your time wisely ensures success later on is really wide of the mark in my opinion UNLESS you get some exposure while you are growing and building.

 

Ultimately the options one has are dictated by fundamentals which cannot be fundamentally changed, yes you can improve but I don't believe you can do a 360 turn on any of these.

1: Looks, vitally important it seems, without these you may as well pack up and go home

2: Social acumen, again if you don't have this or don't fit in you may as well pack and up and go home

3: Ability to relate to people, my experience is those who spent their time building as the expense of social (myself included) generally grew up fast and lack a fundamental ability to relate to the average person sitting in a bar.

 

However saying all that, have an outgoing personality and I doubt anyone would really struggle to date. That can open up options but for those of us who don't have any outgoing personality there are the following options

: sit at the office for 10.5 hours a day

: work continuously on work and hobbies

: rent a date (not recommended)

: date down (not recommended)

: buy a date by flashing around money (not recommended)

: dream of what you want.

[bummer]

For me to find someone that has all the qualities I'd want in a woman & for her to like me back just seems like finding a needle in a haystack. ...

 

Because I'm inexperienced in dating for one, as well as have some health issues I'm still trying to fix. Basically any quality woman I'd fine attractive wouldn't want me since most of them would feel they could do better.

 

I can hardly condone this "no one's good enough but I'm

Not good enough either" pity party. old shirt is 100% right.

 

If you have little experience you honestly have no idea what you really want in a partner. You have fictional constructs in your head. You want a base hit not a homer. You're at the stage of lighting a bottle rocket not building a Saturn V.

 

You broke down the problem. Fix the health issues and make your best effort with the lowest common denominator and enjoy the ride. You will attract what you want to attract. If you're attitude is such that you think no one is good enough and you aren't either, you will win every time getting nothing.

[ZA Dater]

I can hardly condone this "no one's good enough but I'm

Not good enough either" pity party. old shirt is 100% right.

 

If you have little experience you honestly have no idea what you really want in a partner. You have fictional constructs in your head. You want a base hit not a homer. You're at the stage of lighting a bottle rocket not building a Saturn V.

 

You broke down the problem. Fix the health issues and make your best effort with the lowest common denominator and enjoy the ride. You will attract what you want to attract. If you're attitude is such that you think no one is good enough and you aren't either, you will win every time getting nothing.

 

Totally disagree with this but I have to ask have YOU ever done this? Gone after something you don't want?

 

Not sure how someone can enjoy being with someone they are not attracted to but hey what do I know.

 

Some people cannot attract anyone so not sure how one attracts what one wants to attract.

[normal person]

My point is there needs to be a balance somewhere, too much of one and too much of the other just doesn't work.

 

Like I said, it'd be wise to take the measured approach.

 

I think EVERY SINGLE perpetually unsuccessful guy has significant baggage irrespective of other achievements. You cannot just wipe away years of rejection and disappointment, some here say you can, I counter with how many of those who suggest that, have themselves been perpetually unsuccessful.

 

I think we're on different pages. You're assuming "perpetually unsuccessful" and "single in late 20s/early 30s" are the same thing, and they're really not, depending on your measure of success. You can have plenty of experience and relationships up to that age and still not feel compelled to settle down, or perhaps just haven't found "the one." I'm 30, I have other friends (men and women) my age who are single, and none of us is what you'd call "perpetually unsuccessful," a much better descriptor would be "not married yet." The dating lives are steady. This is where you make mistakes, learn from them and figure out what you want and what you don't want. I would not call people who do this (and I'm assuming it's the majority at that age group) "unsuccessful." In fact, as I alluded to in the earlier post, taking a more calculated approach might even yield you more success and happiness in the long run.

 

In my opinion if by late 20's and early 30s you have never had a relationship, chances are you never will simply because you cannot just come off the bench and play a game others have been playing for years.

 

I agree with you, but I'd say those people are outliers. They don't represent the majority of single people at the age we're talking about. They're only a very small fraction of it. And even then, it's not like it's impossible. It does happen.

 

Yes, you can achieve things you can build businesses, you can have all those things but unless you are hugely successful it doesn't really make much difference because the ladies will ALWAYS choose the experienced guy. I write articles, I am published on multiple platforms, I run multiple companies, I have built up a social club from almost nothing, none of that matters one jot because I have no experience and its profoundly obvious to any and every lady who meets me and its obvious to guys too.

 

First of all, a woman's primary criteria is not how experienced a guy is. She won't choose a guy she's ambivalent about over one she connects with because the first has more experience. Also, it's difficult to "see" how much experience someone has unless you let them know. Acting with common sense will prevent any doubt as to how much experience you have.

 

 

Secondly, if you've had all that time to yourself, hopefully you are hugely successful otherwise you've wasted your time in both arenas: career and love. If you put one off, you hope to figure the other out later. In my opinion if you're going to do one or the other, it's much better to put off love for the sake of your career because if you do use your time wisely, with the free time you invest in your career and yourself, you can make yourself infinitely more attractive and have it coincide right at the point in your life when you're naturally most attractive, so you're firing on all cylinders. Unmarried at 33 but you're a partner at the firm? I wouldn't complain. Women 23-35 will bee line to you, even if you're a little awkward or inexperienced because the older women get, the less they care about that sort of the thing and the more they value success and achievement.

 

I find it a little hard to believe that you running companies and whatnot doesn't have any sort of appeal. It sounds like you're making great money to boot, so what do you think is preventing your from leveraging all that into meeting someone? You're well spoken, successful, etc. I doubt "lack of experience" is keeping the women away, unless this lack of experience is manifesting itself in more unflattering ways.

 

Ultimately the options one has are dictated by fundamentals which cannot be fundamentally changed, yes you can improve but I don't believe you can do a 360 turn on any of these.

1: Looks, vitally important it seems, without these you may as well pack up and go home

2: Social acumen, again if you don't have this or don't fit in you may as well pack and up and go home

3: Ability to relate to people, my experience is those who spent their time building as the expense of social (myself included) generally grew up fast and lack a fundamental ability to relate to the average person sitting in a bar.

 

I don't disagree, but #1 matters less with time, and #2 and 3 can be learned or attuned to.

 

However saying all that, have an outgoing personality and I doubt anyone would really struggle to date. That can open up options but for those of us who don't have any outgoing personality there are the following options

: sit at the office for 10.5 hours a day

: work continuously on work and hobbies

: rent a date (not recommended)

: date down (not recommended)

: buy a date by flashing around money (not recommended)

: dream of what you want.

 

Yeah, well if you don't have any other obligations, then working a lot, improving yourself in any way you can, and not wasting any time doing trivial crap are the best things to do in my opinion. Make it count. Don't half-ass it, you're basically mortgaging the present day for the benefit of the future; that's the time investment of it. If you do it all mostly right, it will likely pay enormously off for you in the end. That's the gamble.

 

As I said in the earlier post, I might have a fleeting moment of doubt when I see my friends get married, but whenever I see them get mad or resentful at each other or their situation for things that would have been more easily avoided if they hadn't been complicated by jumping into monogamy, I think about my future and how I won't have any of those problems. They might tease me a little for still dating around, but if you scratch the surface, their lives have more or less plateaued, and mine has been rising and will continue to. My future wife won't have any (major) complaints with me because I figured out everything and solved my problems before getting married rather than complicating her life with those things afterwards. I love my life, I'm in the best shape I've been in since high school, I saved my money, I've done pretty much everything I've wanted to do, and I know how to compromise and have a lot of fun doing pretty much anything. I'm not saying I won't have problems, but I probably won't have theirs. Hopefully if you're single in your late 20s-30s, you're doing the same and if/when you do decide to get married, things work out just as well for you.

[ZA Dater]

Like I said, it'd be wise to take the measured approach.

 

 

 

I think we're on different pages. You're assuming "perpetually unsuccessful" and "single in late 20s/early 30s" are the same thing, and they're really not, depending on your measure of success. You can have plenty of experience and relationships up to that age and still not feel compelled to settle down, or perhaps just haven't found "the one." I'm 30, I have other friends (men and women) my age who are single, and none of us is what you'd call "perpetually unsuccessful," a much better descriptor would be "not married yet." The dating lives are steady. This is where you make mistakes, learn from them and figure out what you want and what you don't want. I would not call people who do this (and I'm assuming it's the majority at that age group) "unsuccessful." In fact, as I alluded to in the earlier post, taking a more calculated approach might even yield you more success and happiness in the long run.

 

 

 

I agree with you, but I'd say those people are outliers. They don't represent the majority of single people at the age we're talking about. They're only a very small fraction of it. And even then, it's not like it's impossible. It does happen.

 

 

 

First of all, a woman's primary criteria is not how experienced a guy is. She won't choose a guy she's ambivalent about over one she connects with because the first has more experience. Also, it's difficult to "see" how much experience someone has unless you let them know. Acting with common sense will prevent any doubt as to how much experience you have.

 

 

Secondly, if you've had all that time to yourself, hopefully you are hugely successful otherwise you've wasted your time in both arenas: career and love. If you put one off, you hope to figure the other out later. In my opinion if you're going to do one or the other, it's much better to put off love for the sake of your career because if you do use your time wisely, with the free time you invest in your career and yourself, you can make yourself infinitely more attractive and have it coincide right at the point in your life when you're naturally most attractive, so you're firing on all cylinders. Unmarried at 33 but you're a partner at the firm? I wouldn't complain. Women 23-35 will bee line to you, even if you're a little awkward or inexperienced because the older women get, the less they care about that sort of the thing and the more they value success and achievement.

 

I find it a little hard to believe that you running companies and whatnot doesn't have any sort of appeal. It sounds like you're making great money to boot, so what do you think is preventing your from leveraging all that into meeting someone? You're well spoken, successful, etc. I doubt "lack of experience" is keeping the women away, unless this lack of experience is manifesting itself in more unflattering ways.

 

 

 

I don't disagree, but #1 matters less with time, and #2 and 3 can be learned or attuned to.

 

 

 

Yeah, well if you don't have any other obligations, then working a lot, improving yourself in any way you can, and not wasting any time doing trivial crap are the best things to do in my opinion. Make it count. Don't half-ass it, you're basically mortgaging the present day for the benefit of the future; that's the time investment of it. If you do it all mostly right, it will likely pay enormously off for you in the end. That's the gamble.

 

As I said in the earlier post, I might have a fleeting moment of doubt when I see my friends get married, but whenever I see them get mad or resentful at each other or their situation for things that would have been more easily avoided if they hadn't been complicated by jumping into monogamy, I think about my future and how I won't have any of those problems. They might tease me a little for still dating around, but if you scratch the surface, their lives have more or less plateaued, and mine has been rising and will continue to. My future wife won't have any (major) complaints with me because I figured out everything and solved my problems before getting married rather than complicating her life with those things afterwards. I love my life, I'm in the best shape I've been in since high school, I saved my money, I've done pretty much everything I've wanted to do, and I know how to compromise and have a lot of fun doing pretty much anything. I'm not saying I won't have problems, but I probably won't have theirs. Hopefully if you're single in your late 20s-30s, you're doing the same and if/when you do decide to get married, things work out just as well for you.

 

I think the over riding thing here is balance and not leaning too far from one extreme to the other, its very tough to do and I failed at it. My logic was as you say to heavily invest and then pick up dating later, that's fine but I can tell you categorically running a few companies counts for absolutely jot when you don't do the normal social things people do like go for a drink.

 

 

This brings me to options, options are to me a function of who you are rather than what you are. The guy who can do the bar thing and club thing is always going to trump the guy who works hard and perseveres at things, principally because you need social acumen to be able to date and being social from young teen age helps, again its pointless sacrificing that early on in the hope success will be enough to counter any social issues one may have.

 

 

The problem I think for me is I just don't think on the same wave length as many people, its extremely rare that anyone actually piques my interest and equally I don't do the whole go for a drink thing so my people meeting opportunities are quite rare to say the least but even when I do go out on my own I look around, listen observe and I just don't feel the need to try and impose my conversation on anyone.

 

 

My inexperience is blatantly obvious to any and everyone who meets me, I became extremely self conscious after someone pointed it out in a joking way, I then instead of getting all anxious just let it be and I am going with that. I don't know how to flirt with people, nor I do I ever know the right things to say or ask. I do the best I can but predictably I just come off badly I guess.

 

 

The reality is options can be expanded to an extent but there is a finite limit, the extremely attractive model is never going to be interested in me and I am never going to be interested in anyone who doesn't have a good command of English and doesn't have some sort of interest in the world around them.

 

 

Those preferences define my options and reduce my pool dramatically so in essence there are two ways to derive more options

1: Re invent yourself into something else that is more attractive, extremely difficult if you have no yardstick

2: Change your preferences to open up a wider pool of people, possible for some impossible for me because I simply refuse to accept anyone less than what I want. She can be 5.9 and a Victoria Secret mode but if the spoke badly I would be uninterested instantly.

[Miss Peach]

I agree with some of the previous posters that this thread reads like a pity party. It's difficult to attract a quality woman with a mindset like that.

 

If OLD isn't your thing there are other ways to meet women. You can go to parties, meetups, etc. Some people do better IRL than on OLD. That is perfectly OK. I have no problems getting dates in either method.

 

The thing is that people leave relationships, get divorced, etc. all the time. New people come into the dating market. Just because there weren't good options last week doesn't mean you might not meet a good one this week. This was my situation. I married young and divorced when a lot of people are looking to settle down.

 

All desirable women are involved with someone(s) to one degree or another at any given time. For all practical purposes, there are no attractive, desirable, friendly, sexy women that are completely free and clear. All of them are dating someone to one degree or another.

 

If you want an attractive, sexy, sociable woman who anything going for her, you have got to be ready, willing and able to roll up your sleeves and make your move even though she is dating someone else/other people. You have to be competitive and you have to be willing to go out onto the playing field and get scuffed up.

 

I totally agree with Oldshirt here. When I think back at my dating life, I've spent a lot of my adult years in relationships. The rare times I'm single, I get a ton of dates and have my pick of men usually. This makes me pretty picky about who I settle down with.

 

My point is if you want an attractive woman, don't wait to make your move or your offer. The answer is always do it NOW!

 

If she is seeing someone steadily, she will be obligated to turn you down initially. But if you show it doesn't phase you a bit and keep engaging her and keep the offer on the table, she will reconsider at some point and may take you up on it sooner rather than later.

 

I wouldn't go completely disrespectful to someone's relationship as that would have me question a guy down the road. But I do have several guys who check to see if I'm available. I love my BF and I plan to stay with him as long as he treats me well and no major deal breakers show up. But if something ever happened, I would probably give those guys first shot before jumping back into the madness of OLD.

 

For me I don't know if I even want to have kids. So that's another thing I need to worry about in terms of possibly finding a woman that might not want kids.

 

I have one but I don't want more. I find most guys in my age range (same one you're dating from) are fixated on wanting a family but there are a lot of men who don't care one way or another or don't want biological kids. I see similar with the women I've met/known. It limits you dating pool a little potentially but there are still plenty of options out there.

 

Because I'm inexperienced in dating for one, as well as have some health issues I'm still trying to fix. Basically any quality woman I'd fine attractive wouldn't want me since most of them would feel they could do better.

 

For me, I'm attracted to confidence and how a guy treats me more than anything. The thing is most of the confident guys are cocky, selfish, and/or rude. So finding that combination is like hitting the jackpot.

 

Just like men women want to find a guy attractive but we tend to also place emphasis on how we feel around him and that can make a guy more attractive. So IMO having a pity party mindset might be the source of your problem since it creates essentially a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[NJ123]

I agree with some of the previous posters that this thread reads like a pity party. It's difficult to attract a quality woman with a mindset like that.

 

If OLD isn't your thing there are other ways to meet women. You can go to parties, meetups, etc. Some people do better IRL than on OLD. That is perfectly OK. I have no problems getting dates in either method.

 

The thing is that people leave relationships, get divorced, etc. all the time. New people come into the dating market. Just because there weren't good options last week doesn't mean you might not meet a good one this week. This was my situation. I married young and divorced when a lot of people are looking to settle down.

 

 

 

I totally agree with Oldshirt here. When I think back at my dating life, I've spent a lot of my adult years in relationships. The rare times I'm single, I get a ton of dates and have my pick of men usually. This makes me pretty picky about who I settle down with.

 

 

 

I wouldn't go completely disrespectful to someone's relationship as that would have me question a guy down the road. But I do have several guys who check to see if I'm available. I love my BF and I plan to stay with him as long as he treats me well and no major deal breakers show up. But if something ever happened, I would probably give those guys first shot before jumping back into the madness of OLD.

 

 

 

I have one but I don't want more. I find most guys in my age range (same one you're dating from) are fixated on wanting a family but there are a lot of men who don't care one way or another or don't want biological kids. I see similar with the women I've met/known. It limits you dating pool a little potentially but there are still plenty of options out there.

 

 

 

For me, I'm attracted to confidence and how a guy treats me more than anything. The thing is most of the confident guys are cocky, selfish, and/or rude. So finding that combination is like hitting the jackpot.

 

Just like men women want to find a guy attractive but we tend to also place emphasis on how we feel around him and that can make a guy more attractive. So IMO having a pity party mindset might be the source of your problem since it creates essentially a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

It's mainly my health issues I think are what's holding me back more so than anything else by far. I honestly never know how I'm going to feel from one moment to the next so it's difficult for me. I'm probably going to be going to make yet another doctor's appointment next week to see if someone can help me out. It just seems no matter whom I go to they never can find out what's wrong. As I said though I don't want more years to go by where I have no experience though. It's bad enough as it is now since most women whether they want to admit it or not will judge an older guy that's inexperienced. It's just the way it is, so if yet another year goes by now I'll have even less options than I do currently. It's as I said it's a double edged sword where if I try to get my health problems fixed first which may not ever happen, when will I ever be with anyone? It's like what am I supposed to do in my situation?

[ZA Dater]

It's mainly my health issues I think are what's holding me back more so than anything else by far. I honestly never know how I'm going to feel from one moment to the next so it's difficult for me. I'm probably going to be going to make yet another doctor's appointment next week to see if someone can help me out. It just seems no matter whom I go to they never can find out what's wrong. As I said though I don't want more years to go by where I have no experience though. It's bad enough as it is now since most women whether they want to admit it or not will judge an older guy that's inexperienced. It's just the way it is, so if yet another year goes by now I'll have even less options than I do currently. It's as I said it's a double edged sword where if I try to get my health problems fixed first which may not ever happen, when will I ever be with anyone? It's like what am I supposed to do in my situation?

 

I am going to tell you a true story which I think will make you feel better and hopefully instil a sense of hope.

 

 

I once chased a girl I really liked, now I am 5.9, slim, swimmer physique, skinny. I tried so hard to get her to like me.

 

 

She landed up with an over weight oaf of a guy, at 30 he has little hair, a pudgy face, he was too sick to do anything for valentines day, he has had numerous operations as a result of sports injuries and there is absolutely nothing remarkable about him, he lurches from one job to the next.

 

 

Few years down the road she is still with him.

 

 

My point is don't let health issues scare you from trying, by your posts here you seem an smart socially astute guy, don't let health become a barrier.

[NJ123]

I am going to tell you a true story which I think will make you feel better and hopefully instil a sense of hope.

 

 

I once chased a girl I really liked, now I am 5.9, slim, swimmer physique, skinny. I tried so hard to get her to like me.

 

 

She landed up with an over weight oaf of a guy, at 30 he has little hair, a pudgy face, he was too sick to do anything for valentines day, he has had numerous operations as a result of sports injuries and there is absolutely nothing remarkable about him, he lurches from one job to the next.

 

 

Few years down the road she is still with him.

 

 

My point is don't let health issues scare you from trying, by your posts here you seem an smart socially astute guy, don't let health become a barrier.

 

It's just really difficult since I have depression/ocd intrusive thoughts on top of my other health issues. And I've tried medication yet it just made me feel even weirder due to whatever this issue is affecting the way I feel in the first place. It's just really confusing to explain. But it's like how am I supposed to date with all these issues on my plate that might possibly may never get better. But on the other hand if I wait first to fix these issues than nothing will happen in the first place. It's just a bad place to be in since I know for sure if it wasn't due to these issues, I would be in a much better place in terms of pretty much everything, dating included.

[JuneJulySeptember]

It's just really difficult since I have depression/ocd intrusive thoughts on top of my other health issues. And I've tried medication yet it just made me feel even weirder due to whatever this issue is affecting the way I feel in the first place. It's just really confusing to explain. But it's like how am I supposed to date with all these issues on my plate that might possibly may never get better. But on the other hand if I wait first to fix these issues than nothing will happen in the first place. It's just a bad place to be in since I know for sure if it wasn't due to these issues, I would be in a much better place in terms of pretty much everything, dating included.

 

Whatever it is that is your ailment, somebody will date you. It might take you many years to find such a person, but they are out there.

 

I was talking to a woman with a disability, but it got weird and she couldn't go out really at all. That's not really compatible with the life I want to lead long term. But I gave it a shot.

 

I repeat, your handicap is not a handicap until you out it out there and somebody rejects you because of it.

[NJ123]

Whatever it is that is your ailment, somebody will date you. It might take you many years to find such a person, but they are out there.

 

I was talking to a woman with a disability, but it got weird and she couldn't go out really at all. That's not really compatible with the life I want to lead long term. But I gave it a shot.

 

I repeat, your handicap is not a handicap until you out it out there and somebody rejects you because of it.

 

 

Yeah, maybe they would possibly date me but would they want a serious relationship with me while I'm dealing with a bunch of health issues? As you said it could take me many years which means not many would at all.

[redbaron007]

It's mainly my health issues I think are what's holding me back more so than anything else by far. I honestly never know how I'm going to feel from one moment to the next so it's difficult for me. I'm probably going to be going to make yet another doctor's appointment next week to see if someone can help me out. It just seems no matter whom I go to they never can find out what's wrong. As I said though I don't want more years to go by where I have no experience though. It's bad enough as it is now since most women whether they want to admit it or not will judge an older guy that's inexperienced. It's just the way it is, so if yet another year goes by now I'll have even less options than I do currently. It's as I said it's a double edged sword where if I try to get my health problems fixed first which may not ever happen, when will I ever be with anyone? It's like what am I supposed to do in my situation?

 

Be very proactive in addressing this - some non-life-threatening health issues can doom your love life - I'm living proof. In my 20's and early 30's I often felt moody and tired. My mood swings were not manic, but noticeable enough that my friends called me a "sine wave" (nerds will get this!). No amount of healthy eating and exercise helped. Docs ran blood tests that were "normal". But after working, I had hardly any energy left to socialize, and I lived in NYC at the time.

 

Only in my mid-30's was I diagnosed with sleep apnea that was causing the fatigue, and also, sub-clinical hypothyroidism that also contributed to it. Add to it "low-normal" T-levels and my love-life was doomed during my prime years. None of these were red flags, each was borderline (except for sleep apnea) but together, they killed my love-life. Now in my 40's and all these issues addressed, I feel better and more positive than I ever was in my 20's.

[normal person]

This brings me to options, options are to me a function of who you are rather than what you are. The guy who can do the bar thing and club thing is always going to trump the guy who works hard and perseveres at things,

 

You're assuming things, like there only two types of men: those who go to the bar and those who work hard. Things aren't that simple, and even if they were, I wouldn't agree with you in this case. There's plenty of gray area to be acknowledged. And once a women starts thinking about her future seriously, she'll take a well accomplished guy over a guy who'd rather go clubbing than achieve anything more often than not (given that there are many other things to be considered).

 

The problem I think for me is I just don't think on the same wave length as many people, its extremely rare that anyone actually piques my interest and equally I don't do the whole go for a drink thing so my people meeting opportunities are quite rare to say the least but even when I do go out on my own I look around, listen observe and I just don't feel the need to try and impose my conversation on anyone.

 

I don't really "like" a lot of human behavior either but I still have the biological urges to meet women, so I've just accepted that I need to do things I don't like in order to get things I do. I don't like drinking during the day, or usually even at night during the week. But if that's when someone wants to meet up, I'll probably bite the bullet. I probably won't feel like traveling too far out of my neighborhood, but sometimes I do. God knows I don't want to pick up the tab for everything, but I do. I don't want to have insane conversations, or indulge a girl by questioning her about things she cares about that I have no interest in, but sometimes you might have to do that. If you continually use the discomfort or alien nature of something very crucial to meeting and interacting with women as an excuse not to do it, you'll have a very, very difficult time. Some things you just can't avoid.

 

And you say nothing piques your interest about them, so if you have the baseline sexual attraction (a curiosity on its own), dig for something that does pique your interest about them. Find a commonality and run with it.

 

My inexperience is blatantly obvious to any and everyone who meets me, I became extremely self conscious after someone pointed it out in a joking way, I then instead of getting all anxious just let it be and I am going with that. I don't know how to flirt with people, nor I do I ever know the right things to say or ask. I do the best I can but predictably I just come off badly I guess.

 

Do you learn specific things from your mistakes and then adjust your behavior for next time?

 

The reality is options can be expanded to an extent but there is a finite limit, the extremely attractive model is never going to be interested in me and I am never going to be interested in anyone who doesn't have a good command of English and doesn't have some sort of interest in the world around them.

 

That still leaves quite a lot of people.

[Els]

And the qualities I need in her is way too much to list if I want to get specific. Some are major things where they would be instant deal breakers while others there could be some leeway on them where I could possibly accept those things as long as there's a lot of other things I like about her.

 

Well, I mean, obviously we can leave out the stuff that every reasonable person would want, like "loyal and honest" or "cares about me".

 

If you take away the bare minimum of requirements that you would need a close friend to meet, what separates the requirements for a partner (obviously, besides gender and sex)? If your list is STILL 'too much to list', the issue might lie with that.

 

IMO, people, especially young men, who have no relationship experience sometimes have this situation where they hold a perfect fantasy woman in their head and absolutely require that. This obviously leads to problems, because fantasy and reality are two separate things. I'm not saying settle, but I am saying think about how your list compares to reality. Unfortunately, the thing that seems to help best in getting past the fantasizing stage is actually experiencing a R, to realize what actually does matter and what doesn't to you. It's the reason why first relationships very rarely work out. With some introspection though, hopefully you can shortcut the process.

[NJ123]

Well, I mean, obviously we can leave out the stuff that every reasonable person would want, like "loyal and honest" or "cares about me".

 

If you take away the bare minimum of requirements that you would need a close friend to meet, what separates the requirements for a partner (obviously, besides gender and sex)? If your list is STILL 'too much to list', the issue might lie with that.

 

IMO, people, especially young men, who have no relationship experience sometimes have this situation where they hold a perfect fantasy woman in their head and absolutely require that. This obviously leads to problems, because fantasy and reality are two separate things. I'm not saying settle, but I am saying think about how your list compares to reality. Unfortunately, the thing that seems to help best in getting past the fantasizing stage is actually experiencing a R, to realize what actually does matter and what doesn't to you. It's the reason why first relationships very rarely work out. With some introspection though, hopefully you can shortcut the process.

 

Well for me I'd obviously need physical attraction as well as personality/chemistry. I can't have one without the other. If you want honesty I don't want to be with a woman that's been promiscuous at any point. I'll probably get some things thrown my way in here for saying that but it's not someone I'd want to be with for a relationship. Also anyone that's still friends with their exes or anyone they've slept with is an instant deal breaker. I'd also like an affectionate type of woman than one that isn't. I don't want to sound cheesy or anything but I'd love to be able to hold hands with her while walking & similar things like that. Just would love someone with a cheery type of personality as well. I'm sure if I think about it there's some more. In terms of attraction I'd never expect to be with some one that looks like a model or anything just someone I'm personally physically attracted to.

[ZA Dater]

You're assuming things, like there only two types of men: those who go to the bar and those who work hard. Things aren't that simple, and even if they were, I wouldn't agree with you in this case. There's plenty of gray area to be acknowledged. And once a women starts thinking about her future seriously, she'll take a well accomplished guy over a guy who'd rather go clubbing than achieve anything more often than not (given that there are many other things to be considered).

 

I think here its about marketability and how marketable a person is, I'd wager the OP deems himself to be unmarketable, yes that can be changed BUT lets be honest here all sorts of alarm bells ring in a ladies head when some apparently nice guy is inexperienced are perpetually single. There are grey areas but to by your logic I'd be a super catch for the women worried about her future, the fact I am not suggests most would rather have the fun guy over the serious guy.

 

 

I don't really "like" a lot of human behavior either but I still have the biological urges to meet women, so I've just accepted that I need to do things I don't like in order to get things I do. I don't like drinking during the day, or usually even at night during the week. But if that's when someone wants to meet up, I'll probably bite the bullet. I probably won't feel like traveling too far out of my neighborhood, but sometimes I do. God knows I don't want to pick up the tab for everything, but I do. I don't want to have insane conversations, or indulge a girl by questioning her about things she cares about that I have no interest in, but sometimes you might have to do that. If you continually use the discomfort or alien nature of something very crucial to meeting and interacting with women as an excuse not to do it, you'll have a very, very difficult time. Some things you just can't avoid.

 

Here I disagree with you, for me I rate my chances of success and I know I will have no success in a club or a bar, each time I have been to one I just feel my self confidence drain away, I look around me and ask myself what I am doing here, people are not friendly at all, I get looked at like I am some alien. I just don't find the entire environment attractive at all.

 

I have no issue compromising providing I can see an end objective, if I had a gf I wouldn't mind going to clubs and bars but to use them to find one, not interested at all.

 

 

And you say nothing piques your interest about them, so if you have the baseline sexual attraction (a curiosity on its own), dig for something that does pique your interest about them. Find a commonality and run with it.

 

A ONS is not something that has ever interested me at all, not from a moral stand point and its just not something I want, I attach premiums to other things like companionship, especially shared interests, share thinking, I like to see that the person has potential long term. Attraction to me is limited by what I know I can get and what I know I cant, I am not going to find that slim brunette attractive purely because I know she isn't gettable, so its pointless liking something you cant have to begin with.

 

 

 

Do you learn specific things from your mistakes and then adjust your behavior for next time?

 

Mostly I just learn I am completely and utterly out of step with the world, the way I see things isn't how everyone else sees them, the qualities I have mean nothing in the grand scheme of things in what is a highly superficial world, mostly I never know what I do wrong because the people I meet lack enough backbone to tell me. Again I think this separates the looking and had success from the looking never had success, the former fits in and thus the issues are more easy to understand the latter doesn't march to the particular tune so is easily misunderstood and never really gets much in the way of improvement because of the inability to fit in. The OP for example believes he doesn't fit in because of his sickness, look at how that has impacted his ability to date? In a humane world girls would understand that and give him a chance, in this world its "who cares I have a choice there are better guys", and yes there is some hypocrisy on my part here but at least I have gone on many dates with people I ostensibly didn't like at all, in the hope they might turn out to be something I did like, in fact and I exaggerate note I have only been on ONE date with someone I did actually like.

 

 

 

That still leaves quite a lot of people.

Not really to be honest, I guess if I was prepared to accept those who would go out with me I could get a date, the reality is they don't interest me at all, they don't fit in with me and they lack any of the qualities I seek.

[ZA Dater]

Well for me I'd obviously need physical attraction as well as personality/chemistry. I can't have one without the other. If you want honesty I don't want to be with a woman that's been promiscuous at any point. I'll probably get some things thrown my way in here for saying that but it's not someone I'd want to be with for a relationship. Also anyone that's still friends with their exes or anyone they've slept with is an instant deal breaker. I'd also like an affectionate type of woman than one that isn't. I don't want to sound cheesy or anything but I'd love to be able to hold hands with her while walking & similar things like that. Just would love someone with a cheery type of personality as well. I'm sure if I think about it there's some more. In terms of attraction I'd never expect to be with some one that looks like a model or anything just someone I'm personally physically attracted to.

 

Tough to find, extremely tough in my opinion, I wish I could tell you how to find it.

[Buddhist]

The first option should be to stop feeling sorry for yourself and playing the same old broken record that you haven't got the popular stuff and you're so under appreciated and a special snowflake. Seriously no-one, no-one wants to be around that. Ask me how I know....

[Els]

Well for me I'd obviously need physical attraction as well as personality/chemistry. I can't have one without the other. If you want honesty I don't want to be with a woman that's been promiscuous at any point. I'll probably get some things thrown my way in here for saying that but it's not someone I'd want to be with for a relationship.

 

Eh, you're entitled to your own preferences. Depending on what you mean by 'promiscuous' though, you might be limiting your options severely. If you just mean something like 'never cheated' or 'never had a ONS' or such, then maybe it might not be a huge limitation. But if you mean a virgin, you are extremely unlikely to encounter such a woman at this stage.

 

Also anyone that's still friends with their exes or anyone they've slept with is an instant deal breaker. I'd also like an affectionate type of woman than one that isn't. I don't want to sound cheesy or anything but I'd love to be able to hold hands with her while walking & similar things like that. Just would love someone with a cheery type of personality as well. I'm sure if I think about it there's some more. In terms of attraction I'd never expect to be with some one that looks like a model or anything just someone I'm personally physically attracted to.

 

Have you ever considered that maybe, instead of a laundry list of items, just meet more women and see who appeals to you? Most people find that their requirements change somewhat after their first R or two anyway.

[NJ123]

Eh, you're entitled to your own preferences. Depending on what you mean by 'promiscuous' though, you might be limiting your options severely. If you just mean something like 'never cheated' or 'never had a ONS' or such, then maybe it might not be a huge limitation. But if you mean a virgin, you are extremely unlikely to encounter such a woman at this stage.

 

 

 

Have you ever considered that maybe, instead of a laundry list of items, just meet more women and see who appeals to you? Most people find that their requirements change somewhat after their first R or two anyway.

 

Promiscuous to me means sleeping with a lot of different guys. I have my own number in mind of how many would be too many for me to not be okay with. I would never expect to be with a virgin of course, but I just don't want to be with someone that's been with so many different men. And ONS I would be okay with if it's a very limited amount she has had.

 

And I would say that's fair but the thing is I feel I won't be getting too many opportunities at this point. I was on OKCupid a week ago again & deleted it after like an hour since I saw a lot of the same women on there & a lot of them didn't seem like someone I would click with after reading their profiles or I just wasn't attracted to them. I was thinking of trying POF again though.