I'm starting to believe I'll never find anyone.

[bummer]

Give me an example of such a conversation and I will let you know if this is the sort of thing I would do. Essentially, please show me what YOU would do.

 

I think there are many many self help books including the classic how to win friends and influence people. Probably try a newer, shorter book.

 

Here's a convo minus body language or other social cues books can't teach:

M: so you're a elementary education student?

W: yeah.

M: do you know what grade you'll teach?

W: no, but I shadowed third grade which was good and used to nanny a five year old so I like younger kids too.

M: I had the best third grade teacher, Mrs peach. She made story time really interesting. I think you'd be a great teacher too.

W: thanks! Story time is my favourite....

 

Or:

M: I had the worst third grade teacher. She never let us out of class for recess on time and made kids cry. You seem way more sweet and would make a great teacher I'm sure.

W: thanks, I had a Dragon teacher in middle school who dragged kids out by their hair....

 

Self deprecate. Listen honestly. Build a common bond.

 

"You grew up there? Do you know this restaurant? "

 

"You like this team? Cool, have you been to a game? "

 

Sure someone here will yell at me but half truths are okay to make a conversation flow early on and show interest. If you can't steer out of a topic you hate or don't know, move on to someone new.

 

Sorry for jumping in, normal person.

Edited July 6, 2016 by bummer

[normal person]

I think there are many many self help books including the classic how to win friends and influence people. Probably try a newer, shorter book.

 

I haven't read the book but this seems like pretty sound advice. I have some amendments to this convo that I added in bold:

 

Here's a convo minus body language or other social cues books can't teach:

M: so you're a elementary education student?

W: yeah.

M: do you know what grade you'll teach?

W: no, but I shadowed third grade which was good and used to nanny a five year old so I like younger kids too.

M: I had the best third grade teacher, Mrs peach. She made story time really interesting. I think you'd be a great teacher too because you give off a really gentle, patient vibe. I can see how kids would react well to it.

W: thanks! Story time is my favourite....

M: Why?

 

Or:

M: I had the worst third grade teacher. She never let us out of class for recess on time and made kids cry. You seem way more sweet and would make a great teacher I'm sure.

W: thanks, I had a Dragon teacher in middle school who dragged kids out by their hair....

M: To be honest, I'm not sure I'd have the patience either. Can you see yourself ever getting really mad at a kid and just totally losing your s*** on him?

W: Haha, hopefully not (my career sort of depends on it), we'll have to see.

M: Well I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. And the kid.

 

Self deprecate. Listen honestly. Build a common bond.

 

"You grew up there? Do you know this restaurant? "

 

"You like this team? Cool, have you been to a game? "

 

Sure someone here will yell at me but half truths are okay to make a conversation flow early on and show interest. If you can't steer out of a topic you hate or don't know, move on to someone new.

 

Sorry for jumping in, normal person.

 

I think you said it better than I could've.

[LightWave93]

I have read that book.

 

Not meaning to sound dismissive of what's being said, but I basically do this already. I just never see signs of interestor of willingness to continue things further, and mostly their responses are quite short.

 

I mean I can think of two examples;

 

Had a girl send me a message on a dating site and we exchanged about 100 messages between us. I suggested us meeting twice. Eventually just gave up cause don't think there was any interest on her end.

 

I met a girl today (colleague) and made her laugh a good number of times, and had decent conversation. I know she's taken, but what I'm saying here is that I *can* talk to women.

 

I'm not a nervous wreck who stares into the distance with his arms folded mumbling words, basically.

[bummer]

Not meaning to demean or patronize. My apologies. If you are good here, then you're good?

 

Keep practicing and keep making them laugh I guess. Sometimes you just need to keep playing and failing. I hope you come back when it works out and tell us what you did.

[LightWave93]

Not meaning to demean or patronize. My apologies. If you are good here, then you're good?

 

Keep practicing and keep making them laugh I guess. Sometimes you just need to keep playing and failing. I hope you come back when it works out and tell us what you did.

 

No no no not at all. I appreciate everything people are saying here, and don't take any offense to it. If there's one thing I *do* struggle with it's conveying emotion through text.

 

I feel as if I do plenty right but also something seems amiss.

[LightWave93]

Got a girl's number online, exchanged a good few fun texts, now not responding.

 

Showed my female friends messages and they thought I did great. Reassured me I'm not a creep. :/

[born3d]

Dude, you've had things happen before. We humans have a weird way of perceiving time. Perhaps your patience levels are different now and distorting your view. I'm actually more in awe of people being in relationships than not. A lot of strange and random factors must be aligned to lead two people, esp two strangers, to find themselves suddenly be one. (suddenly, i.e. relative to how long they have lived)

 

Also there's that wisdom you hear about self-fulfilling prophecies around rejection. Yeah...perhaps it's humbling to admit that you don't have as much control as you think you do. Like, even though I can say that I won't fixate on rejection, how do I know I'm really not? Perhaps once i stop questioning if I'm making any progress

[born3d]

Got a girl's number online, exchanged a good few fun texts, now not responding.

 

Showed my female friends messages and they thought I did great. Reassured me I'm not a creep. :/

 

Hey, I know. So you know when something isn't working to try something else, right?

Avoid asking for input on your dating life. from anyone. And if asked, don't divulge a thing! Unless what you reveal is 100% positive, free of doubts and complaints. Then, you can share the tidbit.

Believe in your inner voice and wing it. What's the worst that can happen? You're not an idiot. Forget looking twice before you walk.

[Bantosm]

Got a girl's number online, exchanged a good few fun texts, now not responding.

If you were able to send her messages online what's the point of getting her number if you're going to text her? You already said this about texting:

If there's one thing I *do* struggle with it's conveying emotion through text.

Why didn't you call her and avoid the thing you struggle with? One reason she's not responding it maybe that she was thinking by giving her number you would call and talk but you're using messages and she may think that shows a lack of interest.

[redbaron007]

..

Presently? Lack of confidence. I feel it drain every time I have a new girl flake on me online, or I go out clubbing and not one girl looks at me.

 

This, my friend, is your #1 problem. You are probably coming off as desperate which is a total turnoff for women. What you are signaling unconsciously is: "Please, please look at/talk with/date me , otherwise I'll continue to be a sad puppy." Women are very intuitive and keenly tuned to the non-verbal signals and cues we men emit, and your desperation/despair most likely shows in your body language, voice and mannerisms when you interact with women. It shows you are too outcome driven, i.e. I dress well, am polite and know I'm tall and look handsome, so she should like me.

 

Let go of the outcome driven mentality and just go out and flirt with any woman you find attractive. As another poster has said, it is a numbers game and though you have said you've been at it a year, how many women have you actually flirted with in real life face-to-face (not text/email)?

 

You fear that thing called "rejection". You need to cultivate a "I don't give a f*ck" attitude and women love that. It doesn't mean you act like a jerk, rather you let go of the outcome and enjoy the interaction, be bold and direct. It signals that you have your life together and your happiness does not soar or crash depending on a woman saying yes/no to a date invitation. This comes through practice, through hundreds of interactions. (Note: if you're an introvert, then you first need to get comfortable bantering with everyone, not just attractive woemn, i.e. talk to infants, teens, elderly, janitors, bus-boys, the dude behind you in the checkout queue.)

 

There are a lot of us here (myself included) who are still working on this.

[LightWave93]

Dude, you've had things happen before. We humans have a weird way of perceiving time. Perhaps your patience levels are different now and distorting your view.

 

I would agree with this. Right now I'm impatient and desperate for change. I just don't know how to handle it, honestly. I don't want to just relax and give up because I feel like not making an effort would hinder me also.

 

Also there's that wisdom you hear about self-fulfilling prophecies around rejection.

 

I don't understand how this can be self-fulling though. I talk to people, try to engage with them, nothing. I try to chat with women, nothing. On the off chance they have a conversation with me, try and get a number. Nothing.

 

Believe in your inner voice and wing it. What's the worst that can happen?

 

My inner voice is telling me that, based on years of this attitude towards me occurring, my situation will never change.

 

Why didn't you call her and avoid the thing you struggle with? One reason she's not responding it maybe that she was thinking by giving her number you would call and talk but you're using messages and she may think that shows a lack of interest.

 

She's responding to me again. I jumped the gun on this one. After x amount of times of the same thing happening I just assumed it were the case here. In answer to your question though; I've found that people generally prefer texting. She's agreed to meet up with me, but I'm getting the impression she's not interested in anything romantic.

 

This, my friend, is your #1 problem. You are probably coming off as desperate which is a total turnoff for women. What you are signaling unconsciously is: "Please, please look at/talk with/date me , otherwise I'll continue to be a sad puppy." Women are very intuitive and keenly tuned to the non-verbal signals and cues we men emit, and your desperation/despair most likely shows in your body language, voice and mannerisms when you interact with women. It shows you are too outcome driven, i.e. I dress well, am polite and know I'm tall and look handsome, so she should like me.

 

As I've said, I'm not desperate for a date. I'm really not. I'm desperate to find out why people, particularly women, aren't "attracted" to me even though by their own account I'm this awesome guy that should be having success socially and romantically. I *am* an awesome guy; I work damn hard for what I want, I stick to my guns and I have a good heart. My confidence is just blasted because of a ****ty breakup and a lack on change in circumstances.

 

Let go of the outcome driven mentality and just go out and flirt with any woman you find attractive. As another poster has said, it is a numbers game and though you have said you've been at it a year, how many women have you actually flirted with in real life face-to-face (not text/email)?

 

This is the problem; it's only today I realized how shot my confidence is. I'm a very friendly person and enjoy making conversation with anyone, and I've made extra effort to engage casually with customers at my work place. Often well-received, but the demographic is usually older people (always found it easier to get on with people older than me). I had a young girl walk in today, absolutely stunning, and I made it my goal to approach her to provide assistance. Standard greeting etc, but making effort to hold eye-contact (years ago I used to never be able to make eye-contact with people, now it comes naturally). I gave a cheeky grin when she said she accidentally broke the item and just said not to mention it around the boss and I'd get it exchanged for her, which she appreciated. In the exchange she mentioned going away, so when there was time I asked her where she was going, who she was going with, duration etc, and it was here my confidence just plummeted; my words got tied, I spoke a bit fast and with a mumble, and our responses to each-other "overlapped". I don't know what happened. I can speak to people, but for the moment I just became a bumbling idiot. It wasn't obvious, perhaps she didn't even notice, but all I could feel was awkwardness.

 

You ask how many girls I approach face to face. Fact of the matter is I just don't meet very many despite the environment I'm in (university) and all the jobs/activities I do. I don't get approached for conversation, and when I do the approaching the chat never lasts more than a minute or so, and there's no follow up. I'm not really a good flirt, just playful, and that I do with everyone.

[SwordofFlame]

You remind me of another poster here awhile back who basically couldn't understand why women weren't attracted to him when he thought he basically ticked off every box on a checklist of every desirable trait a guy needs to have to be successful.

 

His problem was that he always assumed women weren't interested in him and never bothered to ask them out. It's almost as if he was waiting for an attractive woman to hold up a sign that says I'm interested in you, please ask me out. That's never going to happen.

[LightWave93]

You remind me of another poster here awhile back who basically couldn't understand why women weren't attracted to him when he thought he basically ticked off every box on a checklist of every desirable trait a guy needs to have to be successful.

 

His problem was that he always assumed women weren't interested in him and never bothered to ask them out. It's almost as if he was waiting for an attractive woman to hold up a sign that says I'm interested in you, please ask me out. That's never going to happen.

 

Certainly don't tick every box. I'm slim, not the most intelligent guy on the planet and not a big earner (shouldn't matter much at my age though, given how most are in the same boat as a student). Other stuff too.

 

Did you read my last post though? I talk to women, try to flirt with them, they don't show interest. At all. I'm not expecting them to do the legwork. I've asked women out.

[born3d]

Your energy investment appears high and it is possible to redirect it to something else. It won't hurt. Hang out with some animals or any young children of friends/family in order to tap into that need for unconditional love

[LightWave93]

Your energy investment appears high and it is possible to redirect it to something else. It won't hurt. Hang out with some animals or any young children of friends/family in order to tap into that need for unconditional love

 

I don't *need* love in my life. I'm trying to find out why women want nothing to do with me.

[LightWave93]

Any more advice?

[normal person]

Any more advice?

 

Anything people suggest might be the problem apparently isn't the problem. Anything people suggest you do, you're already doing.

 

I'd tell you to seek some help from people you know in person... but you're already doing it.

[Weezy1973]

Advice: Stop caring why others might not find you attractive (unless there's a common theme that people are telling her you). When you meet someone you're interested in, focus on her. Do touchable similar values? Is she someone you would like to date long term? Focusing your attention outwardly will help you get out of your head. You can't control whether or not others are attracted to you so no sense in worrying about it.

[offwithhishead]

@LightWave93

 

I feel like you and I are twins. I have the exact same problem. I read your post and I totally get where you're coming from.

 

I'm not a perfect guy but I think I'd be a pretty good catch. I tick a lot of checkboxes. Not all of them but most of them in what a girl would want in a guy for long-term.

 

Yet nothing ever happens. I can't get a girl interested in me. It's even more frustrating to hear friends and family say things like how they can't understand I'm single. Because it just makes it all the more frustrating. I'd almost rather have a glaring flaw so that at least I know the reason.

 

Ok, I do have a big flaw. I'm short. But I see other short guys like me get girls interested. And no they're not rich.

 

All I can think of is, maybe when you and I interact with women, subconsciously we're directing ALL the thoughts on ourselves. We're worried about if she likes us, if she finds us attractive, does she think I'm too short? Am I offending her?

 

I dunno. I think maybe we should try focusing less on ourselves and more on HER. Girls like to feel special. So when we're interacting with them, maybe focus on her.

 

Girls like selfless guys who don't have a big ego. Maybe our egos are too fragile? I don't know. This is all speculation.

 

I've had very very few successful interactions with girls in my life. I'm not saying just romantically. I mean even as friends. Even keeping a girl interested to be a friend. The few girls that have found me interesting and likable were cases when I had a genuine respect and care for them YET had no interest in getting involved with them.

 

Both these girls were my ex-coworkers. I met them at work and I didn't ever intend to date them and they were taken anyway. I respected them for their intelligence and work ethic and we worked well together. I am friends still with both of them.

 

I think girls can detect when a guy wants something from them versus a guy who genuinely has good intentions towards them.

 

I dunno. It doesn't seem fair. There are lesser guys like us who clearly go after girls to get into their pants and they succeed.

 

For me, I've attributed it down to the fact that I'm short and that I'm Asian. Short Asian males are despised universally by women. That's the only reason I can think of.

 

I'm assuming you're white. You're not short. And you're slim but that's not really a flaw. So really no idea what the issue with you is. For me, it's race and height.

[LightWave93]

Anything people suggest might be the problem apparently isn't the problem. Anything people suggest you do, you're already doing.

 

I'd tell you to seek some help from people you know in person... but you're already doing it.

 

I'm not trying to write off what anyone is saying. I need the help. I'm just pointing out that I do try the things that have been mentioned.

 

And you're right, I have sought help from people I know in person. Each and every time I get told I'm an awesome, attractive guy with a lot of potential.

 

Advice: Stop caring why others might not find you attractive (unless there's a common theme that people are telling her you). When you meet someone you're interested in, focus on her. Do touchable similar values? Is she someone you would like to date long term? Focusing your attention outwardly will help you get out of your head. You can't control whether or not others are attracted to you so no sense in worrying about it.

 

Well on the off chance I do meet with a woman, I don't really think about my concerns in the present, ya'know? It's always afterwards, during downtime when I reflect on my interaction. I definitely understand if I were having a conversation and thinking "She won't like me, Does she like me" etc, but I don't.

 

That said, I do agree I need to focus more attention on the person.

 

I'm assuming you're white. You're not short. And you're slim but that's not really a flaw. So really no idea what the issue with you is. For me, it's race and height.

 

Sorry to hear you have the same problem as me. I hope that one day you will find success.

[ChatroomHero]

I can speak to people, but for the moment I just became a bumbling idiot. It wasn't obvious, perhaps she didn't even notice, but all I could feel was awkwardness.

 

 

If you were a little outside yourself I think you would have had an opportunity to laugh and say something natural with a smile like, sorry I get a little intimidated by beautiful women, I'm stumbling over my words here.

 

 

It has to be lighthearted and sincere and based on your post it would have been 100% true. It could lead to you asking her out, but in the very least I bet you would have gotten a sincere smile back and it could be a confidence boost when you compliment an attractive woman and she 'accepts' it.

 

 

If you do it right, it's called "charm". Doesn't work all the time but if you are sincere it doesn't fail all of the time either. Maybe don't be afraid to embrace your faults when prospecting, it can put other people at ease when you first meet them.

[LightWave93]

I went out for drinks with a girl not long past and didn't do well at all. I've lost the confidence to speak to them now, I just felt like I was boring her (even though I made her laugh quite a few times). I didn't really go with the expectation of anything, just to have a good time but also to see if I could still "do it". Well, I can't anymore.

 

All around me there were absolute stunners I'll never have a chance with, and men with far more success than me without a care in the world because they have it figured out and experience.

[JewelD]

I went out for drinks with a girl not long past and didn't do well at all. I've lost the confidence to speak to them now, I just felt like I was boring her (even though I made her laugh quite a few times). I didn't really go with the expectation of anything, just to have a good time but also to see if I could still "do it". Well, I can't anymore.

 

All around me there were absolute stunners I'll never have a chance with, and men with far more success than me without a care in the world because they have it figured out and experience.

 

You don't have a chance with them because you THINK you don't have a chance with them. You need to rebuild your self-esteem and confidence, and no, pretty women flirting with you is not going to cut it.

 

Because as soon as one of them blows you off for whatever reason, you're going to feel like crap again. You have to stop seeking validation from other people and validate yourself.

[Moves Like Jagger]

Stop relying on your female friends for advice. They're not helping you. The reason why people ask advice on the Internet from strangers is because they recognize that their friends'advice isn't helpful. If you were really sick, would you go to your friends for advice or would you go to a doctor?

 

You keep on mentioning about how your friends and your dating coach tell you about all these attractive traits that you have. Well, if you really possessed them, you wouldn't have any problems attracting women. Ask your dating coach why you can't attract a women. If he can't give you an answer, you might have to look for a new coach.

 

I remember a guy on another forum who was similar to you. He approached a lot of women yet he was stumped why he couldn't attract women even though he possessed a lot of attractive traits. He was really frustrated and already spent plenty of money on dating coaches. One night, I was at a bar and he introduced himself to me and other guys that were part of my group. I saw that he was in shape and wore nice clothes. However, he was kind of robotic. He didn't show much emotion and he didn't seemed interested in talking to you because he wanted to approached some women. When he talked to women, he had this serious, emotionless look plastered to his face. Another person who posted on the Internet also had the same impression that he was too wooden.

 

If I were you, I would experiment with different approaches. Find out what works. Tease girls. Show direct interest in a girl in the beginning of the interaction. Vary how you approach women. Whatever you do, don't play it safe. Go big or go home. It's better to get rejected harshly for taking a chance versus getting rejected nicely because you wanted to play it safe.

[LightWave93]

You don't have a chance with them because you THINK you don't have a chance with them. You need to rebuild your self-esteem and confidence, and no, pretty women flirting with you is not going to cut it.

 

There's plenty of young women are me who are very beautiful and fit. I'm not a big guy and clearly not the sort they go after. I cannot ever see myself experiencing life with a young woman ever again.

 

You keep on mentioning about how your friends and your dating coach tell you about all these attractive traits that you have. Well, if you really possessed them, you wouldn't have any problems attracting women.

 

Trust me, I don't believe them, but when people on the internet get to know me better, see my pics etc they all comment on how I should be getting dates. I wish I were lying but it's the truth.

 

When he talked to women, he had this serious, emotionless look plastered to his face. Another person who posted on the Internet also had the same impression that he was too wooden.

 

Could you give me examples of how I should be approaching women and talking to them? Intros, comments to make etc.