Would YOU consider this cheating? So ....

[ChickiePops]

It was a bikini pic that was on FB. She and her husband had seen it before. I assume many other people have seen it too.

 

Several times she mentioned that he might want to be open with his wife about the things he was asking her for. Until he crossed the line with the question about nipples.

 

If she had sent him a bikini picture that wasn't public or a nude picture, I might agree with you. The couples are friends and it seems to me that one husband took his boob obsession too far.

 

I get what you're saying but she didn't have to resend them to him and she didn't have to say that she wouldn't mind sending naked pictures and would do so if it weren't for his wife.

 

I agree that her husband did waaaay more than the friend but the 'I wouldn't care but your wife' comment felt like a minor dig to me..like she was saying that the OP is a prude or something. And I still feel like her husband should see the convo. He might care, he might not but he should see it.

 

Could be either..not sure who's right and who's wrong.

[RecentChange]

Telling her she was perfection and that he was IN LOVE with two women would have been my freak out point. Don't really give a damn about the nipples.

 

But "in love with her" and wants to keep things on the down low?

 

These are not normal things to be discussing with your wife's friend.

[Lobe]

I wonder if your friend's husband would be interested to know she had sent pictures of herself. Even though she drew a line in the sand, she drew it only after she got her own ego kibbles. I vote you decide whether or not you let your friend's husband know she's been sending bikini pics via text to your husband - some books suggest that this is the best way to nip things in the bud - but regardless, all bets are off. Grab your husband's phone and block her number. Dinner parties and double dates are done. Trust no one.

 

Did he cheat? That's up to you - some define cheating as looking at porn or having secret convos with other women, others draw the line at flirting, others would say until there is genital contact it's harmless (which means they're a little bit dumb in my never humble opinion but to each his own) and yet others would say even intercourse is OK as long as it's just emotionless sex. Generally, couples don't know where that "cheating" line is until it gets crossed. If you feel betrayed and angry, then yes, he cheated. Counselling will only help him if he wants to be helped. Your husband doesn't sound like he's sorry for what he did, he's only sorry he got caught. If he's just going to MC or IC to make you feel better, then it's a waste of time and money.

 

Something stinks here. You need to draw your own line in the sand and let hubby know where it is so that if he crosses it again, there will be consequences.

[EverySunset]

I realize that a lot of people here experienced major triggers when they hear things like the story you posted, OP. Because usually where there's smoke, there's a fire somewhere…

 

However, I've been placed in situations much like your friend, where someone is inappropriately coming on to me, that makes me uncomfortable. If he has asked her for pictures in the past, she may have felt like sending him a picture that everyone has already seen, that her husband already knows is out on the Internet, may have been enough to bludgeon his curiosity, and keep things from getting too awkward. The fact that she was honest with you, even enough to show you proof with his messages says a lot to me. I won't lie, it's sticky. But at least she brought it all to you, admitting that and apologizing. That would go a long, long way with me.

 

Your husband may have felt comfortable enough with her to do some flirting, feeling like he wouldn't get busted. Which is an element that would give me major concern, noting that he's keeping his eye out for opportunities like that.

Edited June 24, 2016 by EverySunset

[DreamP]

Here's my opinion, based on what you have said so far.

 

The problem is your husband is an electronic/message cheater. He is not looking to have a physical affair so he doesn't consider what he is going cheating. But he knows it's wrong, however he thinks it's wrong because he was inappropriate with the friend, not cheating on his wife. I think this is the same reason you are having a hard time considering this cheating.

 

I think counselling is definitely in order. He really needs to understand that what he is doing IS cheating. I don't know if that will stop him from doing this again, but he definitely will not stop until he realizes it. You guys can also talk about how to channel this need of his. Would you be upset if he kept nude pictures of other random women (from porn). Also, maybe you two can role play having relationship on the side where you pretend to be other people and message each other.

 

Whatever you do, you two have a long way of recovery in front of you. This is not a small deal.

Edited June 24, 2016 by DreamP

[Mrs. John Adams]

Cheating? No

 

Inappropriate flirting? Yes

 

It takes 2 to cheat... Obviously she did not think they were cheating or she would not have supplied the conversation.

 

I have a dear friend who pushes the limit on occasion with messages... My husband and I are both friends with him and his wife.

 

When he crosses the line I usually give an awkward silence or a lol...

 

She did the same thing... She said line crossed.

 

Now would he have gone further had she not nipped it in the bud? Most likely. Could it have then become cheating? Most definetly.

 

Did he lie? Yes most of us lie when we are caught with our hand in the cookie jar...

 

Do you need to address this situation? Absolutely... No doubt about it.

 

He needs to be aware of your line and that he crossed it. You don't need to reprimand him but he needs to be told. If you approach him in anger he will respond in Anger.

 

I would also have a talk with my friend and tell her how you feel. If it was truly innocent.. She will be understanding and supportive of you. I also don't think it inappropriate to talk about this with all four of you present.

 

I always make a point of including my friends wife in the conversation... Just to remind him that she is part of the conversation.

 

Anyway.. I am sorry your husband acted out... This could be a really good time for the two of you to have some great communication about flirting and feelings and boundaries...

 

Or this could drive a wedge between the two of you.

[Secondrodeo]

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts/comments. It truly helps to know I'm not crazy in my perceptions and to have some support and guidance.

 

We've had several conversations throughout our relationship about boundaries, what is acceptable, what isn't, etc. So he made these comments knowing full well that he shouldn't and thay I'd be pissed if I knew. After all, he deleted the messages and hid the pics in a locked file on his phone that I didn't know was there.

 

Should start IC or MC? (I'll be doing IC either way.) He'll go if I say he has to because he's desperately trying to keep me here & stay married to me. But I want him to want to go because HE recognizes he has a problem.

 

I'm not allowing him to sleep in our bed and I feel zero guilt about it. Don't think I've said 25 words to him in 2 days as I can't even stand to look at him. I'm going to keep busy this weekend so I'm not around him much at all. Last night he randomly, out if the blue, said "I've never begged for anything before in my life". I didn't respond.

 

I have a fear that he'll soon tire of me being pissed and ignoring him, and he'll leave. He's already said if he has to leave at all, even for a few days to give me space, that it's over because he won't do the drama of separation, getting back together, moving, etc. To me, this sounds like a threat or ultimatum and I'm NOT OK with that. I suppose time will tell how willing he is to suffer the consequences of his actions.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Well then it sounds like he crossed your line and you have made your decision to move forward without him.

 

It's your line... Your decision.

 

Some people don't give second chances... And no one else can make that determination for you.

 

It doesn't sound like you are terribly disappointed so maybe there were other underlying issues? Or other lines he crossed?

 

Anyway ... I am glad you are pursueing therapy to help you sort out all of your feelings and I hope you heal quickly.

[Secondrodeo]

I really am disappointed. And hurt. And heartbroken. And sad. But mostly angry.

 

I'm not making a decision about divorce yet - it's too soon as I'm an emotional mess and can't think clearly yet. I want to take time to get some counseling and see how I feel in a few days, weeks, or months. I'm focusing on me and the kiddo I still have at home.

[merrmeade]

I really am disappointed. And hurt. And heartbroken. And sad. But mostly angry.

 

I'm not making a decision about divorce yet - it's too soon as I'm an emotional mess and can't think clearly yet. I want to take time to get some counseling and see how I feel in a few days, weeks, or months. I'm focusing on me and the kiddo I still have at home.

i'm really sorry you're going through this, rodeo, but I am impressed with your clarity and focus, strong heart and healthy spirit. You're doing the right thing.

[Mr. Lucky]

I really am disappointed. And hurt. And heartbroken. And sad. But mostly angry.

 

As you have every right to be. I'd be less concerned about how far he got with her and most focused on the fact he was plainly in acquisition mode. And his schmooze seems polished enough that there's a practiced feel to it.

 

Doubt this is the first time ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Secondrodeo]

Mr. Lucky, I completed agree with your thoughts. Since seeing his comments to my friend, my mind is swirling, wondering what he's said or saying to women that I don't know, such as coworkers. Is he texting them or messaging them on FB, too? I don't know what to believe anymore. I hate that I'm doubting my entire marriage but how else am I supposed to feel, ya know?

[Secondrodeo]

Merrmeade, thanks. Sadly, my first marriage of 16 yrs ended when my ex left me for his mistress. So I suppose I've already "been there, done that" and this time it's easier since my children aren't young and all still at home. It's one huge burden I don't have to think about this time around.

[merrmeade]

As you have every right to be. I'd be less concerned about how far he got with her and most focused on the fact he was plainly in acquisition mode. And his schmooze seems polished enough that there's a practiced feel to it.

 

Doubt this is the first time ...

 

Mr. Lucky

yeah this is a big deal. I remember this. I discovered an online correspondence between my wh and some 'follower' on an interest site. The exchange was off-and-on over a few months but unambiguous in tone. I was completely floored by how good he was at being appropriately superficial, witty, smooth, subtle and suggestive all at the same time. This was refined flirting. Turns out he WAS practiced at it, much more than I could've possibly suspected. Little sh/t. That's when I went to the hotel.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Merrmeade, thanks. Sadly, my first marriage of 16 yrs ended when my ex left me for his mistress. So I suppose I've already "been there, done that" and this time it's easier since my children aren't young and all still at home. It's one huge burden I don't have to think about this time around.

 

I am sorry that this happened to you before. It would absolutely make it more difficult the tolerate the second time around.

 

I am truly sad for you.....

[Secondrodeo]

yeah this is a big deal. I remember this. I discovered an online correspondence between my wh and some 'follower' on an interest site. The exchange was off-and-on over a few months but unambiguous in tone. I was completely floored by how good he was at being appropriately superficial, witty, smooth, subtle and suggestive all at the same time. This was refined flirting. Turns out he WAS practiced at it, much more than I could've possibly suspected. Little sh/t. That's when I went to the hotel.

 

Merrmeade, did you work through it and stay together?

 

My husband has so many good qualities - NOT that they supercede the craptastic stuff he's done. My kids love him and he'd give his life for us if needed. My parents adore him, my friends like him. He's one of those guys that people just really genuinely like. Of corse, they don't know this side of him, either.

 

It's hard to come to grips with the fact that I've been living an illusion. We just took our honeymoon (finally! ) last month and it was beyond wonderful. I truly fell in love with him again (not that I'd fallen put of love....I just fell for him even more), and didn't think things could really get better. Now I look at those vacation pics and wonder where the hell that all went? Was I completely missing something all along? Is there something missing in our marriage that I'm not giving him? He says he's 100% happy with me, but his actions obviously prove otherwise.

[Secondrodeo]

I am sorry that this happened to you before. It would absolutely make it more difficult the tolerate the second time around.

 

I am truly sad for you.....

 

Thank you.

 

It still sucks. But it sucked more when I had 3 kids, ages 9-15, whose hearts were broken and whose world's were turned completely upside down when their dad decided his girlfriend was his "soulmate". (Funny thing is, he married her and has cheated on her several times since.)

 

I hate that any woman (or man) has to go through this due to a spouse being an *********. Good people don't deserve to be treated this way.

 

I'm not a perfect wife, but I'm a damn good one. I make twice as much money as he does, I'm a great mom, I suppose him with small gifts/tokens of my appreciation for him; I am in my sexual prime so he never gets refused; I have a fun sense of humor; I'm educated (Masters degree) and love good conversation..... I really try to be the kind of spouse that can make him happy. And this is what I get in return?

[VeveCakes]

The friend shouldn't be off the hook.

 

He said " send me sexy pics", not "send me vacation pics".

 

She sent pics knowing they were sexy and half naked. She was playing with fire too.

[elaine567]

The friend shouldn't be off the hook.

 

He said " send me sexy pics", not "send me vacation pics".

 

She sent pics knowing they were sexy and half naked. She was playing with fire too.

 

I agree, if some friends husband asked me for "more" sexy pics, then I guess I must have sent him some other sexy pics...

[merrmeade]

Merrmeade, did you work through it and stay together?

 

My husband has so many good qualities - NOT that they supercede the craptastic stuff he's done. My kids love him and he'd give his life for us if needed. My parents adore him, my friends like him. He's one of those guys that people just really genuinely like. Of corse, they don't know this side of him, either.

 

It's hard to come to grips with the fact that I've been living an illusion. We just took our honeymoon (finally! ) last month and it was beyond wonderful. I truly fell in love with him again (not that I'd fallen put of love....I just fell for him even more), and didn't think things could really get better. Now I look at those vacation pics and wonder where the hell that all went? Was I completely missing something all along? Is there something missing in our marriage that I'm not giving him? He says he's 100% happy with me, but his actions obviously prove otherwise.

Wow, rodeo, it's a l-o-n-g story that is well documented on LS. There was a lot more that he did for me to get over than it looks like you're dealing with - I hope! And if so, maybe it's an opportunity for you. I think I'd be no different if I were in your situation than I was in my own, however. I needed to know that he understood what he'd done and how he got there and then I needed to know that he knew how to change - and wanted to. It's been a long road and isn't over. But one thing I can happily report - He wanted to change. I do believe that now and I can love him tenderly again. It was worth it.

[Mr. Lucky]

I agree, if some friends husband asked me for "more" sexy pics, then I guess I must have sent him some other sexy pics...

 

I think the friend is a red herring that has little impact on the OP's situation.

 

"More" could have referred to the pics already posted on Facebook, who knows. I'd be satisfied with her role in cutting him off at the "pass" and sending the transcript...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mrs. John Adams]

I think the friend is a red herring that has little impact on the OP's situation.

 

"More" could have referred to the pics already posted on Facebook, who knows. I'd be satisfied with her role in cutting him off at the "pass" and sending the transcript...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Agreed....the friend cut him off and turned over the conversation.

 

You can't cheat by yourself. You can WANT to...you can even try...but if the other person does not take the bait...you don't catch the fish.

 

she sent him a picture posted on facebook...by the wife's admission the picture had already been viewed by the both of them.

 

The other thing I keep thinking about....is what kind of relationship did the 4 of them have together. They are all good friends with a great sense of humor.

 

Did the sense of humor include teasing...and wink wink...little crude comments to each other? Did they all tease together about any sexual subjects? Did they vacation together?

 

I mean...we vacation with our very best friends...we cut up and tease and make sexual remarks...and no one ever takes it personally.

 

So did this husband...just continue the teasing on line...or was he fishing?

 

I don't know....if he had never acted out in the past...I think I would give him the benefit of the doubt...and I certainly would talk to my friend and ask her opinion.

 

I understand that the op has been burned once already by an ex husband....but does this husband really deserve to be called guilty without further investigation?

 

He may truly be a jerk...but I would talk to the friend and see what she has to say...before i just throw him in the fire.

[Secondrodeo]

We never vacationed together or anything with the other couple. We did joke around about stuff, including sexual type jokes & comments. But it never went anywhere beyond that and wouldn't have because myself and "Eve" wouldn't be into that type of relationship with each other or each others husbands.

 

He's home from work and has now asked how much longer until I can make a decision as to whether I'm divorcing him. He doesn't get it. He doesn't understand what he's done to me. The significance of it is beyond his understanding for some reason. I can't understand it....it's just such an awful feeling.

[Mrs. John Adams]

We never vacationed together or anything with the other couple. We did joke around about stuff, including sexual type jokes & comments. But it never went anywhere beyond that and wouldn't have because myself and "Eve" wouldn't be into that type of relationship with each other or each others husbands.

 

He's home from work and has now asked how much longer until I can make a decision as to whether I'm divorcing him. He doesn't get it. He doesn't understand what he's done to me. The significance of it is beyond his understanding for some reason. I can't understand it....it's just such an awful feeling.

 

So...you had the kind of comfortable relationship with this other couple that you could kid each other and have adult conversation and make sexual innuendos.

 

That does not mean that you were into swinging or anything like that. It means you were into relaxing and laughing and kidding. Nothing wrong with that.

 

My question then is this....was he just kidding around with her....like the four of you kid around together? Did SHE feel like he was pursuing her...or kidding her? Did you ASK her what SHE thought he meant?

 

Do you think when you confronted him he lied because he thought he was in trouble? Not because he felt he did anything wrong per say...but because he knew you were upset?

 

You are angry....he knows it....he is afraid. Have you talked to him or did you just ban him from the bedroom? If you have not said 25 words to him since this happened...perhaps you need to TALK....

 

How are you ever going to straighten this out if you do not communicate?

[Secondrodeo]

No, I haven't asked her what her perception of it was because I didn't think her perception mattered. I think MY perception of it is what's important. Can you explain how her perception would make a differnce? I'm open to listening and understanding.

 

I didn't banish him from the bedroom. He slept on the sofa voluntarily.

 

I guess I don't know what to say to him so I'm just saying nothing. He doesn't understand the significance of the things he said to her or the implications of it. He is so oblivious. So I wouldn't even know where to begin with talking to him. If he doesn't "get it" then nothing I say will make it better.