So Angry Right Now

[13Hearts]

Honestly, I think as long as you're still so involved with him like this, it's not an ex-MM and an ex-affair... It's a current MM and, at the least, an emotional affair.

 

You're clearly still emotionally invested in him and absolutely nothing good can come from what's going on. It's bordering on obsessive and more-than flirting with bunny-boiling.

 

And I think you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Why do people here have to insult others to try to get their point across?

 

How is texting the man about the weather, weekend plans, how the family is doing, etc "so involved?" We're not sexting or proclaiming our love for one another or pining away. We're just texting about mundane crap.

 

It IS an xMM and a finished affair. What part of "I'm no longer attracted to him because he's a weirdo" don't you get?

 

And please, tell me, how am I CLEARLY emotionally invested in him?

 

Obsessive and flirting with bunny boiling?? Where do you get this stuff? I know you don't know this but, as I TRIED to explain to xMM for YEARS, I have a full-time CAREER, my own home, my own family, and a lot of responsibilities. I DON'T HAVE TIME to be obsessive, chase a man, or catch a rabbit. And even if I DID have time, I would NEVER spend my time obsessing about, chasing after, policing, investigating, or trying to possess SOME GUY. I want to be involved in doing fun things in my spare time, with positive, uplifting, HAPPY people who also want to enjoy what little spare time they have and VOLUNTARILY choose to do so with me.

[13Hearts]

To whomever it was that said I contradicted myself, and whoever said I spent too much time trying to get what I wanted from him, please allow me to explain.

 

In the beginning I was just friends with xMM (many years), and recently we started hanging out a little because of a shared hobby. Then I hooked up with him and immediately told him I did not want to be involved, it was a mistake or whatever, because I don't want to be involved with a MM. It's not me, it's not my style, I don't want to share someone with another person, it's not conducive to the kind of relationship I want, etc etc etc. I told him what I wanted in a relationship and that we were not a good match.

 

He told me all sorts of things about the marriage and said that we would be a regular couple, like I described I wanted. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, continued the relationship for a couple months max, just enough time to see that he was not coming through with his promises.

 

(At that juncture, understand, there was a giant difference in the things we wanted. I was very clear about what I wanted and that he did not meet those requirements. He, on the other hand, LIED so that he could get what HE wanted, despite the fact that it was the OPPOSITE of what I told him I wanted. THIS is what pissed me off. You tell a man what you want, they try to make themselves fit into that picture, despite the MILLION times you tell them "You are not the right man for me," and then proceed to WASTE MY TIME giving me all the things he thinks he needs to give me in order to CHANGE MY MIND about what I want, all to accommodate HIM.)

 

Many, many times I tried to get rid of him, make him go away and leave me alone, but he wouldn't and he kept swearing his love and telling me his plans for getting out of the marriage, etc, which he never followed through on. I kept trying to get rid of him and every time I did, he would panic and go buy me something.

 

I went on with my life and tried to SLOWLY move away from him because it was apparent that every time I tried to cut him off and go NC he would panic or become very anxious. Who knows, he may have an anxiety problem or something, IDK, but I'm not going to be cruel to someone I care about. Plus, he was buying me nice stuff.

 

Years later I guess he got the picture and he stopped bothering me.

 

Couple weeks ago I got sad (maybe I missed him?) and then I got angry at him for lying to me. Now I'm trying to figure out if he has some kind of disorder or something, because I know I'm not stupid.

 

I hope this makes some sense or puts some better perspective on things.

Edited July 22, 2016 by 13Hearts

[13Hearts]

For anyone who might be interested in what I have learned so far, here's an update. For those who think I'm wrong to continue texting with him, please try to understand that I am trying to prevent myself from falling into this sort of "trap" again. Because I had a very strong, long-standing rule NOT to ever get involved with married people, even when separated, and I'm not a stupid person and even suspected the things he was telling me might have been designed to get me to give in to what he wanted.

 

Texting with xMM has taught me that 1) He has a very specific story about his participation in an extramarital affair with me and he is sticking to it. I'm not sure how this benefits him, whether it is to keep from hurting his conscience, or to allow him to continue to live in non-reality, or to keep me on a back burner.

 

2) He definitely manipulates by lying by omission. This means he tells a consistent story but he leaves out big, very important pieces that would reveal the actual truth. As long as I (or anyone) choose to TRUST him, then I would continue to be manipulated.

 

So, it seems, that trusting him may have been my first mistake.

 

His actions told me very loudly that he truly loved me. But I think that was just a facade, a means to an end.

 

Here's a quote from Dr Simon's blog that is helping me understand today:

 

Most disturbed characters don’t hear that little voice in their heads that urge most of us to do right or admonish most of us when we’re contemplating doing wrong. They don’t “push” themselves to take on responsibilities and don’t “arrest” themselves when they want something they shouldn’t have. Any qualms of conscience they might experience can be eliminated with great ease. In the most severe disturbances of character (i.e. the psychopath or sociopath), conscience is not simply weak, underdeveloped, or flawed, but can be absent altogether.

 

It’s really hard to fathom and accept that there are people in this world who simply don’t have the same degree capacity most of us have to be inwardly troubled when they contemplate doing things that are potentially very harmful to others or even themselves. Not being able to accept this key difference between neurotics and disturbed characters can be a setup for possible victimization. I’ve written about other important differences between neurotics and character disorders, such as how they differ with respect to experiencing “anxiety” and will be elaborating on other differences in future posts as part of a series on the key differences between these two very different types of individuals.

[MidnightBlue1980]

For anyone who might be interested in what I have learned so far, here's an update. For those who think I'm wrong to continue texting with him, please try to understand that I am trying to prevent myself from falling into this sort of "trap" again. Because I had a very strong, long-standing rule NOT to ever get involved with married people, even when separated, and I'm not a stupid person and even suspected the things he was telling me might have been designed to get me to give in to what he wanted.

 

Texting with xMM has taught me that 1) He has a very specific story about his participation in an extramarital affair with me and he is sticking to it. I'm not sure how this benefits him, whether it is to keep from hurting his conscience, or to allow him to continue to live in non-reality, or to keep me on a back burner.

 

2) He definitely manipulates by lying by omission. This means he tells a consistent story but he leaves out big, very important pieces that would reveal the actual truth. As long as I (or anyone) choose to TRUST him, then I would continue to be manipulated.

 

So, it seems, that trusting him may have been my first mistake.

 

His actions told me very loudly that he truly loved me. But I think that was just a facade, a means to an end.

 

Here's a quote from Dr Simon's blog that is helping me understand today:

 

I don't think anyone here thinks you are "wrong" for texting him. Most of us including myself have done this and are just aware that it doesn't help. I did the same exact things and honestly, it's just this total mind f*ck. People are just trying to help as we see things clearer from the outside. The only way to feel better is no contact. I know better than anyone - I see him weekly and I tried the LC, the full contact, the talking, every which way. I stopped all that last Monday cold turkey and I'm telling you, I am feeling better. There is just no other way.

[RedOlive]

13Hearts, thank you for posting updates! I know it's helping me a great deal, especially your resent two insights as to what you've learned from your xMM.

 

Though I still can not think of mine as a mastermind manipulator, I recognize that he instinctually(?) did much of the same: creating a story to stick with (in my case a tale of once-in-a-lifetime feelings), and lying by omission (I still don't know much of his family life aside form his marital status and the fact that they have kids). I really do think he genuinely convinced himself to believe it all completely. Anyway, it's super useful for me, personally, to be reminded of what the reality of any such situation is, so please do continue posting.

 

As to polarizing opinions on whether or not you are in control of texting with your xMM... I believe it isn't over till it's over. You obviously have to do whatever you need during this phase in order to get to the very end of it.

 

There is a lot of wisdom to be found here in responses form the "outside looking in", but that said it's your battle to fight and anything you choose to do at this moment takes care of a specific need. I wish the same for you as I do for myself - for this need to dissipate and be replaced by absolute indifference.

Edited July 23, 2016 by RedOlive

[elaine567]

How is texting the man about the weather, weekend plans, how the family is doing, etc "so involved?" We're not sexting or proclaiming our love for one another or pining away. We're just texting about mundane crap.

I am sure you could find someone else to share "mundane crap" with, so why him?

And how exactly will sharing "mundane crap", identify him as a sociopath?

Does his wife know you are in contact?

[pooldog]

I think you are trying to figure out why you did it but you need to give yourself a mulligan and forgive yourself and know you are ok. You learned a lot and won't do it again.

 

I never dated anyone separated or married but I fell in the hole too.

 

It is hard to be single then have someone pursue so heavily and say they would divorce for you. We had no idea. But I bet you and I would never do this again.

 

Sending hugs!

 

 

 

 

For anyone who might be interested in what I have learned so far, here's an update. For those who think I'm wrong to continue texting with him, please try to understand that I am trying to prevent myself from falling into this sort of "trap" again. Because I had a very strong, long-standing rule NOT to ever get involved with married people, even when separated, and I'm not a stupid person and even suspected the things he was telling me might have been designed to get me to give in to what he wanted.

 

Texting with xMM has taught me that 1) He has a very specific story about his participation in an extramarital affair with me and he is sticking to it. I'm not sure how this benefits him, whether it is to keep from hurting his conscience, or to allow him to continue to live in non-reality, or to keep me on a back burner.

 

2) He definitely manipulates by lying by omission. This means he tells a consistent story but he leaves out big, very important pieces that would reveal the actual truth. As long as I (or anyone) choose to TRUST him, then I would continue to be manipulated.

 

So, it seems, that trusting him may have been my first mistake.

 

His actions told me very loudly that he truly loved me. But I think that was just a facade, a means to an end.

 

Here's a quote from Dr Simon's blog that is helping me understand today:

[pooldog]

I just wanted to add that with every relationship that doesn't work there are always questions

 

But the only answer that matters is that he didn't pick you.

 

The man who does will be so amazing that you will forget

 

I think everyone here is aware of the deep pain of an affair for all parties and they don't want you to fall back in the hole.

[whichwayisup]

No, I'm not a psychologist and I'm not trying to diagnose him. I'm just maintaining civil conversation via text message with him; the same kind of stuff you might discuss with a co-worker, but no more intimate or friendly than that.

 

I just want to see what the weirdo is going to do next, that's all. Plus, Dr Simon describes what he calls Covert-Aggressive, and compares them to a Sociopath, and I'm pretty sure xMM is actually one of those and not a Sociopath because Dr Simon says a Sociopath is rare and truly dangerous.

 

But why? You're getting something out if it, whether it's a game or an ego feed etc. You're still investing on some level and admit or not, you're far from over him even though your head knows what he is.

 

I hope soon you just slam the door and move on, don't look back. He's not worth any effort, thoughts or anything.

[Lady Hamilton]

And I think you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Why do people here have to insult others to try to get their point across?

 

I didn't insult you, I said that that your behavior was coming off as dangerously close to Glen Close territory.

 

How is texting the man about the weather, weekend plans, how the family is doing, etc "so involved?" We're not sexting or proclaiming our love for one another or pining away. We're just texting about mundane crap.

 

Because this is an ex who you feel is destructive. It's somebody you crossed a line with and want to disentangle with. Because if you are caught now, his wife isn't going to say "well thank goodness they were just talking about the weather now."

 

And I'd like to point out, if that's what your texting discussions are like, you're hardly going to find out if hes a sociopath.

 

It IS an xMM and a finished affair. What part of "I'm no longer attracted to him because he's a weirdo" don't you get?

 

And please, tell me, how am I CLEARLY emotionally invested in him?

 

Your behaviors and declarations don't match.

 

I've had ex boyfriends who I thought were weird and I wasn't attracted to... I didn't text them after the breakup. I said "bye Felicia" and split.

 

I save my mundane chats for cashiers at the grocery store, my weather updates for The Weather Channel, and got out of Dodge.

 

And I think if we were to take a survey here of who thinks you're still emotionally invested, most of us would say you still are emotionally invested still. There's no wife that would look at this and say this was a dynamic they'd want their husbands to enjoy with another woman.

 

Obsessive and flirting with bunny boiling?? Where do you get this stuff? I know you don't know this but, as I TRIED to explain to xMM for YEARS, I have a full-time CAREER, my own home, my own family, and a lot of responsibilities. I DON'T HAVE TIME to be obsessive, chase a man, or catch a rabbit. And even if I DID have time, I would NEVER spend my time obsessing about, chasing after, policing, investigating, or trying to possess SOME GUY. I want to be involved in doing fun things in my spare time, with positive, uplifting, HAPPY people who also want to enjoy what little spare time they have and VOLUNTARILY choose to do so with me.

 

And yet... Here we are.

 

Read the post about your actions and activities currently related to him, then read this. Now get why we are saying what we are saying.

 

People who are not emotionally invested simply don't spend this much time thinking about, communicating with, or trying to figure somebody. They just don't.

[Poppy47]

Why are you maintaining a conversation with him at all? In your very first post you said how angry you are with him for deceiving you.

 

What more do you expect to happen here?

Poppy.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Why are you maintaining a conversation with him at all? In your very first post you said how angry you are with him for deceiving you.

 

What more do you expect to happen here?

Poppy.

 

We all know why she is maintaining a conversation. It's the same reason we all struggle with this, we have formed an emotional and chemical connection to these guys and it's the bargaining stage of the breakup, where you think this is good enough, anything is better than nothing. Also there is that hope, if I stay in the picture - close but not too close - he will realize how much he missed me - the old pick me dance. It doesn't work though because if he wanted the OW in the first place, he would have left long ago. Now he is getting his ego fed and the OW has only slipped a rung lower in his eyes. Eventually she will get fed up and angry and this time he will care a little less and move on easier. Repeat.

 

I did this cycle for 7 months. Right now I'm NC and I'm trying to just not care what he thinks of me, which is honestly, probably little.

[13Hearts]

I don't think anyone here thinks you are "wrong" for texting him. Most of us including myself have done this and are just aware that it doesn't help. I did the same exact things and honestly, it's just this total mind f*ck. People are just trying to help as we see things clearer from the outside. The only way to feel better is no contact. I know better than anyone - I see him weekly and I tried the LC, the full contact, the talking, every which way. I stopped all that last Monday cold turkey and I'm telling you, I am feeling better. There is just no other way.

 

Thanks MidnightBlue1980! Can you tell me how it was a total mindf$ck?? In what ways??

 

I think I've determined that one of the reasons I got stuck in this affair nonsense, even though I stopped the physical part and did my best to have a normal life and a normal relationship with this person, was because, like I said above, 1) I trusted him and 2) because I believed in all the romantic BS.

 

A lot of what he talked about regarding us and our future together focused on how he was going to take care of me, buy me a house, etc. Nevermind the fact that I am a better money manager than he is (which he is aware of and freely admitted), I already own, and love, my home, and I am independent and have taken care of myself for years. In fact, I take care of my family who don't live with me).

 

I think he saw an opportunity to cash in on how hard I work to support myself and others, my fatigue from always taking care of others, and would always admonish me for giving too much and tell me he was going to take care of me. He would do little things around the house to help me (usually only if I asked), and those things were what I considered to be real examples of his love. But, of course, I'm probably wrong about that too.

 

The strangest part was when I would try to have a conversation with him about things (calm, rational), it seemed to always feel like I could really never reach him. Like he never heard me. Because as I've said before, whenever I would confront him with reality, or the reasons why I believed he would not ever leave or divorce his wife, he would give me the time to explain what I was saying and the argue with me that I was wrong about the reason I was giving. I felt like this guy was living in some alternate reality where evidence and commonalities in affair situations did not apply to him. Looking back, I bet that was evidence of something one of my old (cheater) BFs from 3 decades ago used to say all the time and that was that he "had a story and he was sticking to it," (which, to tell the truth, I NEVER UNDERSTOOD UNTIL NOW).

 

Here's something from Dr Simon that seems to make some sense of this:

 

The problems associated with disturbed characters might be so engrained that they occur “automatically,” but the disordered character is fully conscious of them. He knows exactly what’s going on, what he’s doing, why he’s doing it, and even why others consider his behaviors problematic. Lying is one of the more common of his problem behaviors. Sometimes the disordered character lies so “automatically” that he lies even when the truth would have done just fine. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t know he’s lying. He knows – he just does it so often and readily that he does it without even thinking about it.

 

A fair amount of the time, when disturbed characters are confronted about why they did something hurtful, they will reply: “To tell you the truth, I don’t know.” In my experience, this is most always a lie designed to manipulate and impression-manage others as well as to evade responsibility. “I don’t know” doesn’t really mean that the disordered character is oblivious to his motivations (i.e. has no conscious awareness of his intent). Instead, it often means “I’ve never really thought about it;” or “I don’t want to talk about it now;” or “I don’t want to tell you because they you’ll have my number, the con game will be over, and you’ll start holding me more accountable.” I get weekly testimonials from readers of my writings and former workshop attendees that often attest to how much their lives changed once they stopped taking “I don’t know” for an answer when confronting the disordered character they’d been dealing with. In contrast to neurotics, disturbed characters do the hurtful things they do intentionally, albeit habitually.

[13Hearts]

Sometimes I go back and read things I posted before, to see where I was (probably emotionally) and compare to how I am now. Or to gain some insight into my thought processes or whatever. And I've had a sort of epiphany and that is...

Just because you have sex with someone does not mean you should live with, have a long-term relationship with, or marry them!

[MidnightBlue1980]

Thanks MidnightBlue1980! Can you tell me how it was a total mindf$ck?? In what ways??

 

The strangest part was when I would try to have a conversation with him about things (calm, rational), it seemed to always feel like I could really never reach him. Like he never heard me.

 

 

I can't figure out how to post the quotes separately. I hope this isn't too confusing.

 

Mindf*ck - What I meant was I'd go through these cycles and each time they would be shorter and go faster. I'm exclusively referring to the time after the PA ended. We went NC for 5 months. Stage 1 - NC. It was so difficult for me and he said for him (but I didn't really believe him, who knows). Anyway, so we started emailing again and talking (we see each other once a week) like normal - stage 2 - friends. Then it shifted into the I love you and the EA part of the affair. We started contacting a lot again, daily. Stage 3 - EA. But then I would wrestle in my head if I could handle this, why was I doing this to myself. Inevitably he would say some comment about what he and his wife were doing that day and I'd flip out, go crazy. He would say, we are just friends, you know that. He'd pull back as I was acting crazy and I'd blame myself, which was better, which was worse, I was doing this all to myself. Stage 4 - me being crazy. And then of course Stage 5 - NC, which is also Stage 1.

 

The mindf*ck thing comes in because I'd blame myself and my mind would whirl round and round as to which option was better and he's play the victim while I played the crazy woman. The first time this happened, the cycle took 6 weeks. The second time, 2 weeks. We are currently in NC and I plan to keep it that way.

 

As to your second comment, he heard you. He just acted like he didn't. When you have a conversation with him and you feel like he is not hearing you and it goes in circles and nowhere, it is called Word Salad. It is a technique used by people to confuse you and detract from the issue at hand. Google it - word salad. Also google gaslighting.

[13Hearts]

Thanks RedOlive I'm glad someone can relate to what I am saying in these posts. It's even better if someone can benefit. But, it'd be good if folks would try to understand that everyone comes into this situation from a different place.

 

I hear what everyone is saying. I appreciate the warnings and the feedback. I love that people actually care enough to post. What I want people to understand is that I have been manipulated before, and I am trying to figure out how it is possible that I fell for this. Every time something like this happens to me, I am very hurt but I go on. I need to figure out where these people are coming from so that I don't fall for it anymore. I think it is in getting all emotionally involved and falling for the romantic BS that I get drawn in.

 

But yes, Olive, maybe he is NOT a master manipulator. Maybe he fell for the romance and emotional stuff too.

 

13Hearts, thank you for posting updates! I know it's helping me a great deal, especially your resent two insights as to what you've learned from your xMM.

 

Though I still can not think of mine as a mastermind manipulator, I recognize that he instinctually(?) did much of the same: creating a story to stick with (in my case a tale of once-in-a-lifetime feelings), and lying by omission (I still don't know much of his family life aside form his marital status and the fact that they have kids). I really do think he genuinely convinced himself to believe it all completely. Anyway, it's super useful for me, personally, to be reminded of what the reality of any such situation is, so please do continue posting.

 

As to polarizing opinions on whether or not you are in control of texting with your xMM... I believe it isn't over till it's over. You obviously have to do whatever you need during this phase in order to get to the very end of it.

 

There is a lot of wisdom to be found here in responses form the "outside looking in", but that said it's your battle to fight and anything you choose to do at this moment takes care of a specific need. I wish the same for you as I do for myself - for this need to dissipate and be replaced by absolute indifference.

[13Hearts]

IDK if his wife knows we are in contact. But I'm sure his wife knows only bits and pieces of what he does. This is a man who refuses to do anything with her that she likes or wants to do, will only do things together with her that he wants to do, and lives the rest of his life doing whatever he wants to do with whomever he wants to do it with. I have nothing to do with that dysfunction.

 

Sharing mundane crap with him via text keeps us in touch, albeit limited, but also gives me the opportunity to see how he explains what occurred between us and what he will do next.

 

I've already figured out from reading Dr Simon that xMM is probably not a sociopath. But there is obviously something dysfunctional about how he relates to women. I can't post all the details on the internet but lets just say I suspect he actually hates women and that his relationships with women are (obviously) one-sided, but it doesn't matter who the woman is, he will be this way with all women.

 

Why him? Because it's safe. Because he has been a friend for a very long time and I feel comfortable asking him certain things that I could not possibly ask a stranger. Because in his heart of hearts I believe he does love me (platonically) but that he is REALLY screwed up when it comes to romantic love (for some reason, not sure why).

 

And because there is still much here for me to learn about how I relate to others. I know this makes little sense to other people, because you are not me and have not lived my life, but I suffer from some very specific thinking problems which I do not feel comfortable talking about on the internet. xMM is pretty much the only person I feel comfortable discussing these with, because when it comes to this, I actually do trust him, his perspective, and his feedback. Like I've said, we've been friends a very long time and that friendship was never all about romance and living happily ever after.

 

If you really think about it, everything everyone posts on here is really about THEM, and I am no different; it's ALL about ME.

 

Thanks Elaine567, for your questions. I really appreciate them because they help me put this, and my life, into perspective.

 

I am sure you could find someone else to share "mundane crap" with, so why him?

And how exactly will sharing "mundane crap", identify him as a sociopath?

Does his wife know you are in contact?

[13Hearts]

I think you are trying to figure out why you did it but you need to give yourself a mulligan and forgive yourself and know you are ok. You learned a lot and won't do it again.

 

I never dated anyone separated or married but I fell in the hole too.

 

It is hard to be single then have someone pursue so heavily and say they would divorce for you. We had no idea. But I bet you and I would never do this again.

 

Sending hugs!

 

You're right, Pooldog. I won't ever do it again. Not long after I HAD done it, I wished I had NOT!

 

I think the reason I did it is because I had always had a bit of a crush on xMM, carried a low-burning torch for him. You could probably call it more of a "matchstick" instead of a torch LOL, or a "smoldering ember" HAHAHAHA but it was there nevertheless and man when he told me he was in love with me and the fact that he DOTED ON ME every minute of the day, I just couldn't resist!! It did get pretty tiresome though, because he required A LOT of attention!

Edited July 24, 2016 by 13Hearts

[13Hearts]

But the only answer that matters is that he didn't pick you.

ROTFLMAO

 

Sorry pooldog, don't mean to laugh at you, but this is so the opposite of how I think. I remember thinking this way and that was decades ago. I do not believe for a moment that MEN pick WOMEN in "romantic" relationships.

 

WOMEN choose MEN. And when a woman is done with a particular man, then he will move on. It is not until the woman is done and does not want to be with him, or live with him, or whatever she uses him for, that he will leave.

 

I don't have deep pain as a result of the affair. I was angry and I was hurt previously, because of the way I chose to LOOK AT it at those times. The man chose to marry his wife some 20 or so YEARS ago, and he chose to take care of her, and have a family, house, friends, etc with her, LONG ago. That's got NOTHING to do with me, whether or not he truly loves me, whether or not he truly wants to live with me or go on dates with me or have sex with me, etc. It's not a reflection of my worth or my abilities, my sexiness or desireability, or what I "deserve" in life. Plus, I've lived all of my life WITHOUT him in it on a regular basis, except for a couple of years of limited (although daily and intense) contact; I'm certainly capable of going THE REST of my life without him.

 

It ONLY has to do with ONE thing: I do not want to he with an unavailable man. Regardless of the kind of unavailability dysfunction he has. Whether that is psychologically unavailable, emotionally, financially, sexually, or any other way. And trust me, most men are unavailable to you in one way or another; it's really a matter of how extremely unavailable they are.

 

I just wanted to add that with every relationship that doesn't work there are always questions

 

...

 

The man who does will be so amazing that you will forget

 

I think everyone here is aware of the deep pain of an affair for all parties and they don't want you to fall back in the hole.

[13Hearts]

We all know why she is maintaining a conversation. It's the same reason we all struggle with this, we have formed an emotional and chemical connection to these guys and it's the bargaining stage of the breakup, where you think this is good enough, anything is better than nothing. Also there is that hope, if I stay in the picture - close but not too close - he will realize how much he missed me - the old pick me dance. It doesn't work though because if he wanted the OW in the first place, he would have left long ago. Now he is getting his ego fed and the OW has only slipped a rung lower in his eyes. Eventually she will get fed up and angry and this time he will care a little less and move on easier. Repeat.

 

I did this cycle for 7 months. Right now I'm NC and I'm trying to just not care what he thinks of me, which is honestly, probably little.

 

Actually, no, none of the above.

[Adoraxx]

@Hearts, what was Dr Simons suggestion on what to do in a situation like this (quoted):

"I get weekly testimonials from readers of my writings and former workshop attendees that often attest to how much their lives changed once they stopped taking “I don’t know” for an answer when confronting the disordered character they’d been dealing with."

 

What did these workshop attendees do after they stopped taking 'I don't know' for an answer? Walk away? Ask more questions until they got a different reply than 'I don't know' ?

[13Hearts]

@Hearts, what was Dr Simons suggestion on what to do in a situation like this (quoted):

"I get weekly testimonials from readers of my writings and former workshop attendees that often attest to how much their lives changed once they stopped taking “I don’t know” for an answer when confronting the disordered character they’d been dealing with."

 

What did these workshop attendees do after they stopped taking 'I don't know' for an answer? Walk away? Ask more questions until they got a different reply than 'I don't know' ?

 

I haven't gotten that far yet, but as soon as I do, I'll post what Dr Simon says

[ChickiePops]

All these posts and still no reason why you need to be in contact with him...

[66Charger]

ROTFLMAO

 

WOMEN choose MEN. And when a woman is done with a particular man, then he will move on. It is not until the woman is done and does not want to be with him, or live with him, or whatever she uses him for, that he will leave.

 

Really? In what world is this true? Planet Doormat?

 

Just messin with ya (not really) ignore.

Edited July 25, 2016 by 66Charger

[ChickiePops]

ROTFLMAO

 

Sorry pooldog, don't mean to laugh at you, but this is so the opposite of how I think. I remember thinking this way and that was decades ago. I do not believe for a moment that MEN pick WOMEN in "romantic" relationships.

 

WOMEN choose MEN. And when a woman is done with a particular man, then he will move on. It is not until the woman is done and does not want to be with him, or live with him, or whatever she uses him for, that he will leave.

 

I don't have deep pain as a result of the affair. I was angry and I was hurt previously, because of the way I chose to LOOK AT it at those times. The man chose to marry his wife some 20 or so YEARS ago, and he chose to take care of her, and have a family, house, friends, etc with her, LONG ago. That's got NOTHING to do with me, whether or not he truly loves me, whether or not he truly wants to live with me or go on dates with me or have sex with me, etc. It's not a reflection of my worth or my abilities, my sexiness or desireability, or what I "deserve" in life. Plus, I've lived all of my life WITHOUT him in it on a regular basis, except for a couple of years of limited (although daily and intense) contact; I'm certainly capable of going THE REST of my life without him.

 

It ONLY has to do with ONE thing: I do not want to he with an unavailable man. Regardless of the kind of unavailability dysfunction he has. Whether that is psychologically unavailable, emotionally, financially, sexually, or any other way. And trust me, most men are unavailable to you in one way or another; it's really a matter of how extremely unavailable they are.

 

So are you saying that the affair, and subsequently all the pain, anger and damage it has caused, is 100% your fault? That all affairs are 100% the woman's fault?