Looking for others perspectives.

[Oran]

So, my final decision was to forward on the email from BS to my exAP, and cc her in. I made no comment or response. Just forwarded and cc-ed.

 

BS contacted me again, 'No surprises there OW...you had a choice..yet again you have chosen to involve WH..I wonder why!!!'

 

Again I forwarded to exAP and cc-ed BS in.

 

Since then no contact.

 

If exAP attempts to make any contact with me, I'll simply forward the e-mail to BS and cc him in.

 

I did worry that BS response was just as OneLov had warned, that she simply thought that I was pulling his strings. But if I stick to my strategy then hopefully they'll get the message.

[Oran]

xMM was always boasting about the fact that he'd been married for 50 years! didn't matter that he had been cheating for the last 8. I don't know about the rest of his marriage. I reason that a man doesn't suddenly start cheating at 65 years of age.

Poppy.

 

Nothing exists in isolation...

[ladydesigner]

So, my final decision was to forward on the email from BS to my exAP, and cc her in. I made no comment or response. Just forwarded and cc-ed.

 

BS contacted me again, 'No surprises there OW...you had a choice..yet again you have chosen to involve WH..I wonder why!!!'

 

Again I forwarded to exAP and cc-ed BS in.

 

Since then no contact.

 

If exAP attempts to make any contact with me, I'll simply forward the e-mail to BS and cc him in.

 

I did worry that BS response was just as OneLov had warned, that she simply thought that I was pulling his strings. But if I stick to my strategy then hopefully they'll get the message.

 

This is a great idea! I honestly wish the MOW in our situation had done this. I feel it would have forced my WH to make a decision rather than stringing us both along. It would have been better if my WH left me for MOW rather than put me through false R. I know my WH loved MOW and had a really hard time letting her go. Our R, or lack of, has been very difficult to say the least.

[immokk]

This is a great idea! I honestly wish the MOW in our situation had done this. I feel it would have forced my WH to make a decision rather than stringing us both along. It would have been better if my WH left me for MOW rather than put me through false R. I know my WH loved MOW and had a really hard time letting her go. Our R, or lack of, has been very difficult to say the least.

 

 

Apologies, I haven't seen your story... are you still working it out?

[immokk]

Nothing exists in isolation...

 

Never a truer word!

[immokk]

So, my final decision was to forward on the email from BS to my exAP, and cc her in. I made no comment or response. Just forwarded and cc-ed.

 

BS contacted me again, 'No surprises there OW...you had a choice..yet again you have chosen to involve WH..I wonder why!!!'

 

Again I forwarded to exAP and cc-ed BS in.

 

Since then no contact.

 

If exAP attempts to make any contact with me, I'll simply forward the e-mail to BS and cc him in.

 

I did worry that BS response was just as OneLov had warned, that she simply thought that I was pulling his strings. But if I stick to my strategy then hopefully they'll get the message.

 

You're so strong!

 

Am completely impressed by how well you're handling this and I think this is probably the best way to deal with it. x

[ladydesigner]

Apologies, I haven't seen your story... are you still working it out?

 

 

Thank You!

 

Well... I'm not sure, I'm watching actions and improvements WH makes. I recently asked for a D and started making my plans to leave and we decided to give it one last shot I guess. So far he is making the changes I have asked for to feel safe. I have finally let go of the outcome though. I am happy and have forgiven the A, but I would like to see my WH become a better person for himself and for our kids more than anything.

[Oran]

This is a great idea! I honestly wish the MOW in our situation had done this. I feel it would have forced my WH to make a decision rather than stringing us both along. It would have been better if my WH left me for MOW rather than put me through false R. I know my WH loved MOW and had a really hard time letting her go. Our R, or lack of, has been very difficult to say the least.

That must have been very difficult having MOW hovering in the wings. In my final conversations with exAP, I spelt out to him what R would mean, from my perspective. It was never meant as a 'threat', if R was the way forward for AP and BS then I would leave, and that would mean NC and AP would never see me again. AP didn't want NC, but how could genuine R take place if I was present in anyway? I wasn't going to coach him through R, or torture myself because I might hope it would fail. What kind of person would that make me? I would have felt like a vulture waiting for a death.

[Lobe]

I would have felt like a vulture waiting for a death.

 

Oran, this is such a powerful sentiment. WOW. I wonder if that's kind of what all APs feel, at some point.

[Oran]

You're so strong!

 

Am completely impressed by how well you're handling this and I think this is probably the best way to deal with it. x

Thanks immokk, they need to be talking to one another, not to me, either of them. I'm just going to practice e-mail wormhole, if they want me to redirect their mail, I'd do it.

[Lobe]

Thanks immokk, they need to be talking to one another, not to me, either of them. I'm just going to practice e-mail wormhole, if they want me to redirect their mail, I'd do it.

 

Like tennis, only different...

 

Pass the popcorn!

[Oran]

Like tennis, only different...

 

Pass the popcorn!

hahaha, you're naughty!

[Oran]

Oran, this is such a powerful sentiment. WOW. I wonder if that's kind of what all APs feel, at some point.

 

I suppose yes. In many different ways. WS wait for the A-fog to clear, the death of those feelings. OP wait for the AP to leave a marriage, the death of a M.

[Lobe]

I suppose yes. In many different ways. WS wait for the A-fog to clear, the death of those feelings. OP wait for the AP to leave a marriage, the death of a M.

 

Honestly, the thought of being the OW is so depressing to me. I get that some women don't know they are the OW, but those that do - you're signing up for such heartache and misery... In a lot of ways though I think some kids have to touch the element on the stove before they realize yes, it really is hot and painful.

 

(FWIW, I have always been more likely to touch the burner than not, but the urge keeps fading the older I get.)

[Oran]

Honestly, the thought of being the OW is so depressing to me. I get that some women don't know they are the OW, but those that do - you're signing up for such heartache and misery... In a lot of ways though I think some kids have to touch the element on the stove before they realize yes, it really is hot and painful.

 

(FWIW, I have always been more likely to touch the burner than not, but the urge keeps fading the older I get.)

 

Absolutely. Heartache. Misery. But I think there are in many cases, complex dynamics as to why the OP eventually accept that they are the OP.

 

The reality is if M potential-APs truly loved and respected potential OP, the very first thing they'd do is try to work on their M. That way if they do eventually, respectfully leave their M, they've worked through their relationship. Equally OP should be smart enough to know this is the right path. But it seems more like two people jumping into a runaway car that has no steering wheel, and BS is tied up in the trunk.

[Lobe]

I put the popcorn on but really, I hope it was pointless because BS and AP got the message...

 

I am seriously in awe of your resolve, O. Huzzah. HUZZAH!!!

[Oran]

I put the popcorn on but really, I hope it was pointless because BS and AP got the message...

 

I am seriously in awe of your resolve, O. Huzzah. HUZZAH!!!

I've had 3 years of limbo-lala-land waiting to see if he loved me ENOUGH to make the relationship legitimate, all the time feeling as though the life was draining out of me. Well, not a f*cking minute more, Lobe. Not. A. Minute.

[Oran]

13hearts post on anger this morning totally hit a trigger for me. I am angry. Really angry. And it feels great. If feels like a gathering together of energy that is sitting in my solar plexus and it's giving me back a sense of my own identity.

 

I am lucky in that exAP and I do not share mutual friends. His marital home was miles away from my hometown, and my hometown is miles away from where we set up home so that he could begin his 'dream job' and new life with me. I am NC. And batting back any communication from BS or WH back into their own arena.

 

Why am I angry?

 

Well, around 6 weeks ago when I realized that AP was still denying my presence in his life to BW, I got really upset. In the following conversation I said to him, what makes YOU so special that you think you get to have 2 women, and what makes each of us so lacking, that we don't even deserve half of you?'. I then got into my car and spent the day in a beautiful place that I'd intended to visit with AP. It was the anniversary of when we met, 3 years ago to the day.

 

Cut to that evening. I ask him if he's spoken to BW. He wont answer me. I am frantic and upset. I'm crying my eyes out. He puts on his jacket so that he can leave the house, get away from. I'm even more frantic than before, I'm in pain and he's just going to abandon me there? Some ultra-rational survival part of my brain kicks in and I notice that for the first time in a long time, his mobile is sitting by the bed, not hidden away in his pocket. I grab the phone, pull on my boots, dash out of the house and jump in my car. I drive to a quiet spot where I can open the phone with pass-code that I've memorized from glances when he is using his phone. And I read all his texts between BS and himself. I read weeks of denials that I am living with him.

 

When I return to the house he is strangely 'passive' and keeps asking what I have done. He thinks I've phoned his wife. I tell him I've read all the messages. He remains strangely passive, and something in me gives up. I just acquiesce to the situation. I sit in the boat that is our A, let him hold the rudder, and wait to drift onto the rocks.

 

Did I love him so much that I would have accepted any situation, any treatment from him? No. This is the man who resolutely stated that he did not drink, despite drinking strong cocktails, despite the fact that we met in a bar. This is the man who when our A became P stated that he was a happily married man. I acquiesced. I gave me. I went along with him.

 

I no longer questioned him about his communication with BS. I dreamt on a regular basis that I was standing next to AP and BS, and I was standing still, holding my breath, trying not to be seen. I knew she would come to the house. AP said to me, I wont let that happen. How? How would he stop her? He would tell her that I was there. Why couldn't he do that then and there, at that very moment?

 

In the whole scenario, the number one person who was most important for him to protect, was himself.

 

I have no doubt that he believed he had strong feelings for me. But as someone said here, fear is a stronger emotion than love, and his MO is to protect himself and his interests at all costs.

 

Why am I angry? Because I did not protect myself? Because I believed his words over his actions? Because I did not listen to the voice inside of myself that knew exactly what was going on.

[immokk]

13hearts post on anger this morning totally hit a trigger for me. I am angry. Really angry. And it feels great. If feels like a gathering together of energy that is sitting in my solar plexus and it's giving me back a sense of my own identity.

 

I am lucky in that exAP and I do not share mutual friends. His marital home was miles away from my hometown, and my hometown is miles away from where we set up home so that he could begin his 'dream job' and new life with me. I am NC. And batting back any communication from BS or WH back into their own arena.

 

Why am I angry?

 

Well, around 6 weeks ago when I realized that AP was still denying my presence in his life to BW, I got really upset. In the following conversation I said to him, what makes YOU so special that you think you get to have 2 women, and what makes each of us so lacking, that we don't even deserve half of you?'. I then got into my car and spent the day in a beautiful place that I'd intended to visit with AP. It was the anniversary of when we met, 3 years ago to the day.

 

Cut to that evening. I ask him if he's spoken to BW. He wont answer me. I am frantic and upset. I'm crying my eyes out. He puts on his jacket so that he can leave the house, get away from. I'm even more frantic than before, I'm in pain and he's just going to abandon me there? Some ultra-rational survival part of my brain kicks in and I notice that for the first time in a long time, his mobile is sitting by the bed, not hidden away in his pocket. I grab the phone, pull on my boots, dash out of the house and jump in my car. I drive to a quiet spot where I can open the phone with pass-code that I've memorized from glances when he is using his phone. And I read all his texts between BS and himself. I read weeks of denials that I am living with him.

 

When I return to the house he is strangely 'passive' and keeps asking what I have done. He thinks I've phoned his wife. I tell him I've read all the messages. He remains strangely passive, and something in me gives up. I just acquiesce to the situation. I sit in the boat that is our A, let him hold the rudder, and wait to drift onto the rocks.

 

Did I love him so much that I would have accepted any situation, any treatment from him? No. This is the man who resolutely stated that he did not drink, despite drinking strong cocktails, despite the fact that we met in a bar. This is the man who when our A became P stated that he was a happily married man. I acquiesced. I gave me. I went along with him.

 

I no longer questioned him about his communication with BS. I dreamt on a regular basis that I was standing next to AP and BS, and I was standing still, holding my breath, trying not to be seen. I knew she would come to the house. AP said to me, I wont let that happen. How? How would he stop her? He would tell her that I was there. Why couldn't he do that then and there, at that very moment?

 

In the whole scenario, the number one person who was most important for him to protect, was himself.

 

I have no doubt that he believed he had strong feelings for me. But as someone said here, fear is a stronger emotion than love, and his MO is to protect himself and his interests at all costs.

 

Why am I angry? Because I did not protect myself? Because I believed his words over his actions? Because I did not listen to the voice inside of myself that knew exactly what was going on.

 

Hello Oran,

 

I read this twice.

 

The bit in bold is the thing that strikes me. I'm not in anger stage, although I had a moment of it the other day, but I think I will get there. At the moment part of me doesn't want to. I don't want to see him as someone who took advantage of me while my marriage crumbled and my dad died.

 

In so many ways, I don't actually think he did, but I think this is the stage I need to get to to get myself through it. I can say it here. I am an intelligent (believe it, or not) woman. I can retionalise.

 

But right now, I cannot accept that a friend of 5 years, would manipulate me so.

 

As much as I have missed him this last (nearly two weeks!!) I tell myself that he is not my friend, he stopped being my friend when he became my lover... at that point I lost my friend and that was as much my fault as his.

 

This is hard.

 

I'm quite pleased that you are at anger. I look forward to being there too.

 

Thank you for your updates. You help keep my strong.

[Lobe]

Thank you for your updates. You help keep my strong.

 

NC twinnies!!!

[Oran]

I'm quite pleased that you are at anger. I look forward to being there too.

It feels much more enabling than the place that I've been in. Everyone here has their own story. And who the exAP is, as a person, shapes to a degree your recovery, I think.

 

I gave up who I was for the A. While AP was out pursuing his dream job, I was left mouldering, waiting around for BS to strike. The baseline of love, is just a basic care for a person. While AP professed his LOVE for me, in capital letters, in reality he never showed me that basic care, that basic consideration.

 

I'm mostly angry at myself for abandoning myself.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still have flashes of delusion, that somehow he'll turn up here on my drive to tell me that he made the biggest mistake of his life, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah. I read the stories here and think, but my A was different, he loved me, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah. Then I step out of my hot air delusion balloon and compare what he said to me, to what he did, and there is such a massive gap.

 

APs first A was with a woman in an abusive marriage. When I met AP I was still grieving for my father. His car-bang, was with a young woman about to move countries to escape an abusive relationship. You said that you did not want to believe that your AP could manipulate you. I don't really want to believe that my exAP was an opportunist manipulator, but the pattern of the relationships would suggest that he is. Maybe there's an element of savior complex thrown in there too, but his form of salvation always seems to require the saved being nude.

 

I realise that the worst outcome for me would be if exAP turned up here and announced that R was trashed, and we were on. He'd be coming to me with all the personal issues that hemorrhaged in his M and he was unwilling to address.

 

While BS was making snide comments in our meeting about my appearance, she had no idea what a massive favor she was doing me.

[rumblefish12]

Maybe there's an element of savior complex thrown in there too, but his form of salvation always seems to require the saved being nude.

 

OMG I laughed so hard at this. Maybe because it is too close for comfort. My ExAP was in an abusive marriage. She wanted out. She needed an exit. I knew/know I can't be that exit. That's just one more reason why it would be nothing but selfish to ever break NC.

[ladydesigner]

In the whole scenario, the number one person who was most important for him to protect, was himself.

 

Why am I angry? Because I did not protect myself? Because I believed his words over his actions? Because I did not listen to the voice inside of myself that knew exactly what was going on.

 

BINGO! There should be a sticky for all OW/OM to see that it is THIS^ that is most important to the married partner when all hell breaks loose.

 

It's good you are angry and be sure to use that anger to help propel you forward.

 

I understand why OW do not get angry at MM right away, but I feel if more did they would see MM's true colors a lot sooner.

[Oran]

BINGO! There should be a sticky for all OW/OM to see that it is THIS^ that is most important to the married partner when all hell breaks loose.

 

It's good you are angry and be sure to use that anger to help propel you forward.

 

I understand why OW do not get angry at MM right away, but I feel if more did they would see MM's true colors a lot sooner.

MM initially presents as victim. Sooner or later, hopefully, OW realizes BS is actual victim. By which point any anger directed at MM, could equally be directed at herself for collusion.

[Sabella]

MM initially presents as victim. Sooner or later, hopefully, OW realizes BS is actual victim. By which point any anger directed at MM, could equally be directed at herself for collusion.

I do agree

 

During my A, neither of us ever spouse bashed or future faked. That being said, I didn't think a lot about the bw during that time either. I can only speak to my side of things, but I totally lost myself in the affair. I lost sight of even myself, to where I wasn't thinking clearly about my actions or their consequences. No excuse for it, but that's the honest truth.